Ruth Chapter 1 Discussion


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  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO on Ruth 1:22
    I had this thought recently, and wanted to share it with everyone for comments, that I feel God has been impressing on me about His Return. Matthew 24, 25 were not just written to give us information about when Christ will return and what conditions will be like. It was written also to warn us to Prepare for His Return.

    The example of Lot's wife is very clear. She had a strong emotional attachment to what she was leaving behind. She didn't want to be separated from them. Her yearning, her longing was so great, she didn't want to leave them behind. She was, perhaps, having second thoughts. In fact, was she a reluctant follower?

    So, when we hear the Trumpet Call, the Shout of the Archangel, and we see Jesus in the Clouds as He starts gathering His Elect (Christians) from one side of the sky to the other, and the Heavens begin to fill with the rumble of those that were dead being raised with us who are alive, praising and magnifying God, and the thunderous sound of swords clanging as they slip out of their sheaths in preparation for battle, and the Word of God is held high to lead the charge; will we be emotionally ready to leave everything behind. Will we be able to release the emotional grip we have on our spouse and answer the call, as Jesus announces with a loud voice to "Come up Here"? Will we be able to let go of the hand of the mother we love, as Jesus appears in the sky? Will we be able to leave our children behind without looking back with a strong desire to take them with us? Will we be able to let go and rise to the Heavens without hesitation?

    Two will be in the field, Jesus told us. One will be taken. Pray we won't be like Lot's wife, whose emotional attachment to her material possessions, friends, family, social life, were greater than her desire to obey and follow God's instructions Genesis 19:17.

    Perhaps this is something most need not worry about, but are we ready emotionally to let go of everything we hold dear, to answer the Call? Luke 17:32.
  • Chris - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    That, Carlos, is a great introspective question for every believer & it is indeed the time for its careful consideration. I would hope, nay, believe, that every lover of the Lord is actively awaiting the Lord's Return. Even leaving the sequence of eschatological events aside to which we are at odds with, the glorious hope & expectation for the Lord's Return ought to be our longing, & from all that we do on this Earth, it should reflect this joyous hope.

    I think the leaving behind of material possessions & affiliations will be relatively easy for most; but the leaving behind of loved ones who have not heard the Gospel or accepted the salvation offer from the Lord, will be the pain in our hearts both now & at that time. This is another reason that should urge us to be looking out for their souls by sharing of the Word, in testimony & in much prayer.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO on Ruth 1:22
    I don't think anyone would argue that the God of the Bible, Jehovah, is a God of Order and Purpose, Ephesians 3:11. We see how when He created the Universe, He organized it and set everything in motion, by carefully coordinating the composition and orbits of Galaxies, Stars, and Planets, Isaiah 60:20-22. He also established Physical Laws to regulate the interaction of all matter. Even the smallest Atoms are regulated. Everything adheres to His Principles for order, Psalms 8:3. That is also true of Humanity and Social interaction, John 1:17. There are set rules and standards everything must meet to function. There is even a cycle in the Earth that allows things to decompose and regenerate. Leaves fall in the forest. They decompose. Then they act as nutrients for the soil. Those nutrients feed the seeds that grow into more trees.

    The Bible tells us that in the Beginning of Time, God created the Heavens and the Earth. He also created vegetation, animals and mankind. The Bible also tells us the name of the Creator is Jehovah. In the New Testament we find Christ with God at the beginning. And Christ created all things. So we find that:

    1. God is a God of Order

    2. He created all things that exist, visible and invisible

    3. God created with a Plan and Purpose

    4. That Purpose is found in Christ

    5. Without Christ, nothing was made that was made

    6. All things were created For Christ

    7. Before Adam and Eve were created, God had a Plan

    8. That Plan is called His Eternal Plan of Creation

    9. It is also called His Plan of Redemption or Salvation

    10. Christ, as the Sacrificial Lamb, existed before Abraham

    11. Christ as the Sacrificial Lamb existed before Adam and Eve Sinned

    12. Our Salvation through Christ was decided before The Fall

    13. When Adam and Eve fell, God's Plan for Creation was already working

    14. We are part of God's Plan of Creation as the Redeemed by His Love and Grace

    15. We can love God, because He first loved us
  • Mishael on Ruth 1:22
    If you are more comfortable not speaking to God, by all means, make Him into the god who doesn't talk back.

    Do you have religion or relationship?

    I'm going to go now and enjoy some praise music. Later.
  • Mishael on Ruth 1:22
    I did a study just on the word Wisdom and was speechless over how much information is in the Bible. That will blow your mind.
  • Chris on Ruth 1:22
    To Carlos, our discussion page has now been locked, as you've probably noticed. So, I'll to post this afresh & hope you see it.

    To your comment with the lead statement, "discussion leads to growth, edification, faith and maturity." I may have grown in my faith in a similar way to you. I had a lot of teaching when attending Church as an unsaved young person. After salvation in my mid-20s, I knew I had to undo everything, get into the Word properly & methodically, & find out what God is really saying. I realize that many have done much more study than me, but it remained in my heart that I needed to sit & listen to the Holy Spirit first & then hear man speak.

    I too have never fitted into any denomination & it becomes interesting when having to explain why that is so. And I doubt, that any believer who is studying God's Word intently, would ever really agree on everything a denomination stands on & preaches. I think that type of variety is very appropriate, as we individually search the Scriptures & formulate our understanding based on the Light received. I have my own understanding of the Ordinances given to us, particularly in the performance of them; I reject the Health/Wealth teaching; the requirement for the proper biblical use of the Spiritual Gifts, & even to what we've been discussing at length: the proper understanding of the Creation account. As you can see, I've been prepared to sit with you on this one, as it too has exercised my understanding of the Scriptures in a way I didn't think was possible. However, my conviction is: 'if something is not clearly revealed in the Word, then just accept what is seen & understood'. By clear revelation, I mean, after a thorough examination of all Scripture over the matter. Yes, you could be right in your assumptions about Creation, but I just don't accept as fact something that is unclear in the Word & then have to entertain possibilities or probabilities for everything that follows after it.
  • Chris - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Page 2.

    I'm neither "perplexed nor defensive": just explaining how I understand the Scriptures given showing the difference between the Mosaic Law & any other law, whether man-mad/given, or in one's conscience. And to "Angels crossing species": I refer to Genesis 18:2; 19:1; Hebrews 13:2. So when I say that they crossed species, it was to indicate that they took on human form for accomplish God's Purposes.
  • Chris - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Page 1.

    Carlos, to your discussion beginning with, "if when you reference Romans 5:13-14".

    Since I no longer have that particular thread before me (because of the locked discussion), I will respond just on your comments. With the Romans reference, I believe I said that that all (from Adam onwards) have suffered death (both physical & spiritual) as a result of sin, "even to those who had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression". What was the similarity to Adam's transgression? Those, like Adam, that didn't have the Law given to them, or was in their knowledge, that would have given judgement to their sin. Who are these people? Adam, primitive tribes, & to some extent, Gentiles, who do perform some of the laws because of governments who embrace those principals. Then I quoted, Romans 2:14,15, to show that to those who didn't have God's Laws/Standards, "did by nature the things contained in God's Law", & upon that basis they would be judged. So, I think I'm saying what you are, except in a different way.

    When I refer to, & understand, the Law in this instance, I refer to it as those Laws of God as declared & given through Moses. If God told Adam not to eat the fruit, then it is a commandment, as a parent so commands his child. Adam was not bound under the Law (& it wasn't imputed to him), as it wasn't given to him to obey. Yet, he suffered, because sin was imputed because of disobedience, regardless whether the Law was given or not. Then why the need for the Mosaic Law? It was God's declared Standard for His people, distinguishing them (as also with circumcision), from any other people in the world. The others were a law unto themselves, doing by nature the things that are contained in the Law, & were/are so judged by the performance of those un-given Laws.

    (onto Page 2)
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO on Ruth 1:22
    Joshua on Colossians 1:15 brought up an interesting question. Who is Jesus? Is He God Devine or a created being God promoted to a higher position? There is a related Central theme in Scripture we often don't pay a lot of attention to. Even Preachers seem to skip over it when referencing it. But if you don't fully understand it, the rest of Scripture becomes difficult.

    I am asking the following question for all who would like to respond, on Colossians 1:16,

    "For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and FOR Him."

    I have discussed this a little with others, but I would like to look at it on its own. From:

    PURPOSE DRIVEN CREATION

    Book

    Q: What does the word FOR mean? What does it mean that all things were created FOR Him?
  • Jesse - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Carlos, here is what I get from Colossians 1:16:

    For by Him, or more literally, in Him. There's a prepositional word there that means in. In Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, and that's lordships, or principalities, or authorities:

    So He's made everything, both visible and invisible. I look back to Ephesians 6:12 and I see that these listings of dominions, principalities, and powers are ranks of angels. Angels have military rank, both good angels and evil.

    Paul says, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The word high places in the Greek means spirit realm. So it seems as though angels have rank.

    But the emphasis here is that in Christ, all things were created, both visible and invisible. Things that are in heaven and things that are upon the earth, all the spiritual creatures, angels, were created in Him. All things were created by Him, and that's the word through. In Greek, it is DIA with the Genitive. All things were created through Him, and for Him: that's the preposition EIS, meaning unto Him, or for Him.

    I'm just sharing what I see from that Verse, not looking for a long drawn out discussion, but just sharing my understanding. I am however curious to see how others see this verse.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Jesse, you have dissected Colossians 1:16 indisputably well. However, what I am focused on is the "Unto Him", the "For Him" statement in the verse.

    What could Paul have meant by stating that all things were created "Unto" Him?

    Romans 11:36 says essentially the same thing.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Carlos,

    Okay, here are my thoughts on what Paul may have meant by the words "unto" and "for" Him. Again, these are just my thoughts.

    First of all, I see the comparison to Romans 11:36, so I thought I would take that and maybe share something you might be looking for, unless you already know the answer. In Romans 11:36, the words "of Him" is literally "out of Him" as a source. For out of Him, and through Him, He is the sustainer of all things. Everything has come from Him. He is the source of all things.

    When I go to Hebrews Chapter 1, it tells me that all things, the epics of history and time are being carried along by the word of God. The word of God is holding all things together, carrying history along, according as God designed it. Romans 11:36 also says, and to Him, which is literally the word EIS with the accusative in the Greek. To Him! He is the significance in everything. Everything is for Him.

    And I just sit back and wonder what He is doing with my life because there are things I just don't understand? But when I realize that He has a purpose and will for my life, and He has set me apart for his purposes, even if I don't understand what it is, I am content because I know He is in control. I have to live by faith, and even He is the source of that faith. I don't have to understand. All I know is that everything has been designed by Him, and that He sustains everything, that His Spirit carries out His will, and everything is for His purposes. I might not understand most of all that God does in my life until I go to be with Him, but that's fine with me.

    So I think what Paul was saying is that all things were created for His (Christ's) purposes. Maybe that's still not what you are looking for, I don't know. You have a great evening!
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Jesse, I couldn't agree more. As you say, "everything has been designed by Him, and that He sustains everything, that His Spirit carries out His will, and everything is for His purposes. So I think what Paul was saying is that all things were created for His (Christ's) purposes."

    That is exactly what I am getting at. Now, the question is, What is His purpose for creation? Or with creation? More simply stated, what did God create everything for?
  • Jesse - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Carlos,

    Are you asking this because you honestly do not know the answer? Or, are you asking for a different reason or motive? I have nothing more to add other than He created all things for His glory. That's about as deep as I feel comfortable going.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    That's fine, Jesse. Thank you.
  • Adam - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    God created us for his pleasure and glory. Isaiah 43:7
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Adam, good point on Isaiah 43:7. But what does that mean? What is Glory and what is Pleasure? Philosophically and Theologically speaking, God is Self-Sufficient. He doesn't lack anything and He doesn't need anything. He doesn't need love. He doesn't need to be loved. He doesn't need Pleasure? How would you define Pleasure? God also doesn't have a need to be Glorified. We praise Him because of who He is and what He does. But does He need our accolades? Does God have a need to feel good about Himself?

    Pleasure and Glory are vague terms. How do you define them? Thanks. Good point.
  • Chris - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Carlos, I agree with you on the Self-sufficiency of God: that He needs nothing else to add to His Person or Character, that He is fully content within Himself & His Wisdom requires nothing from an outside source to enlighten Him or to reassess His Purposes for Heaven & the Universe. But He is a God of Love, nay, God is Love (1 John 4:8). In His Self-sufficiency, His very Being is essentially both Spirit & Love: without one or both, He is not God & thus non-existent.

    If then His Essence is Love, His Actions stem out of that Love, to extend that Love to all, to require that Love in His Creation, & to receive that Love in return; & these are all hallmarks of love (1 John 4:16). I see that if one of these requirements of Love is missing, then the "God is Love" Truth equates to 'God has Love within Him but requires no reciprocal response', however weak our love may be. But if a response from us is required, then it must prove that this God, Whose very Essence is Love, also sees our returned love as something He needs to receive & respond to. Is then His Response simply from a judicial position of checking off that a person has done his bit with love, or does God have a 'delight & sense of inward satisfaction & joy' when love is reciprocated?

    In a sense, God doesn't need Pleasure from expressed love or even a sense of euphoria in an outstanding act of love or devotion (& some even dare to suggest that He rests back on His Throne & exudes uncontrollable laughter & frivolity over some human act), but His very Nature demonstrates His Great & Perfect Love (in Holiness), & that in seriousness & satisfaction, He receives our Love in return. I believe that our Father delights immensely in the love given to Him, especially when deeply rooted in the reason for that 'agape' love: His Son's Love at the Cross.

    "God doesn't need to be glorified". What do we make of John 12:28; 13:31,32; 17:1? Do we sense that the Father receives our worship & His need to be glorified in us is paramount?
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Thank you for your response, Chris. That was Really enlightening! You've pointed out a truth that gives us a lot to think about. I couldn't agree more. Love is one, if not the most significant characteristic or attribute of God. Were it not for His love, where would we be. I don't mean to diminish the fact God deserves and gets Glory, Exaltation, Recognition, Praise, Thanks, Appreciation for whom He is and what He has done. Ephe 2:4-10 says:

    "But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life."

    But isn't His Love married to Wisdom and Righteousness? In Proverbs 3:19, we see that, "The LORD founded the earth by wisdom and established the heavens by understanding." And 8:17-23, "I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.... The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."

    Proverbs 8 is generally accepted as a description of Christ. Clearly, everything God does is motivated by Love. But Love with Wisdom and Justice.

    What I would like to get at is what the Bible reveals about What God created us for in that Love. There's a persistent question people ask. That is, if God, why evil? Perhaps this is too philosophical, but it is important. Why does evil exist, if God is Love? The notion that we have Choice or Free Will, isn't enough.
  • Adam - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Hi Carlos, just because God is self sufficient doesn't mean He can't make stuff if He wants. He also doesn't owe us an explanation for WHY, nor are we entitled to know. However, He already said He made us for his glory in Isaiah 43:7.

    In my personal, unproven, and non-biblical opinion, I think we were made for His glory and enjoyment and that when we voluntarily with free will and faith choose to Love God and obey Him that it is a pleasure to Him. Perhaps it's like being a parent and if your kids voluntarily tell you they love you and you 100% know it's real, that you didn't coerce them to say that, and that they're not a puppet or robot under your own control. God didn't make robots. It's more meaningful if people voluntarily choose to love.

    Your other point was does God have a need to feel good about Himself? Probably not, but doing something that feels good doesn't automatically mean you're insecure about it or NEED it.

    The Bible does indicate God does have human-like emotions/feelings, however, like Deuteronomy 32:16. And we're made in His likeness, which may include feelings.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Adam,

    Do you think that God will accept our faith and love toward Him if it's voluntary faith and love? If I volunteer to put my faith in God and I volunteer to love God, that's not the faith and love that the bible speaks of. To volunteer to do something takes human effort, and I don't believe that our human effort pleases God at all. Do you know that there are two types of faith, and two types of love? God only accepts one of the two. If we volunteer to love Him and volunteer to put our faith in Him, He's not going to accept that one.
  • Adam - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Hi Jesse, we don't believe the same things. I believe everyone, including Christians, has freewill and there's lots of Biblical support for that like Joshua 24:15, Psalms 119:30. Freewill = voluntary choice. People have the freewill to choose to follow Jesus or not. So, yes our faith and love to God is voluntary. This is why Jesus gave so many warnings and parables about the gate being narrow going to heaven and wide the gate going to destruction. It's why Jesus kept challenging people to avoid sin, to obey and why he said this: John 14:15. If we were predestined robots with no freewill then Jesus likely wouldn't say all that. Instead he'd say everyone is free to do whatever, because it doesn't matter, sin is ok because everyone is going to heaven anyway, but obviously that's not the message. Satan wants everyone to think they don't need to take any action at all as a Christian, but just do nothing. But a Christian is literally a Christ-follower, and following is an action requiring movement in Jesus's direction. The more I read the Bible and the more I pray to God asking for wisdom and understanding in the scriptures the more He reinforces this truth. I'm already aware that some Christians don't believe this and I'm already aware of the points used for that view and I believe its unbiblical. God bless.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Adam,

    Until you can differentiate between human love/human faith, and the faith/love that the bible speaks of, we probably are not going to agree with each other on this one. What I am trying to tell you is that the faith and love that the bible speaks of is produced only by God's Spirit. No matter how hard we try, we cannot produce that type of faith or that type of love. So when we are volunteering to love God, or if our faith is voluntary, God will not accept that because it's not of His Spirit, but of our own human effort. You can call it free will if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it is you doing it out of your own human effort, volunteering to love God. And He will not accept that. I think if my children were to tell me that they were volunteering to love me, that would be heartbreaking. To me, that wouldn't be genuine love. I'm just trying to help you out here!
  • Adam - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    I disagree with this of course.
  • Lynn on Ruth 1:22
    Ruth 1:22 the question was actually, how is Orpha related to Naomi, and. Daughter in law. Ruth 1:22 is cited- Orpha was married to Naomi's son Mahlon.

    We don't know if Orpha was married to Mahlon or Cilion. It is a mistake to suggest we do.
  • Chris - in Reply on Ruth 1:22
    Mahlon & Chilion were Naomi's sons. They married two Moabitish girls: Mahlon married Ruth (Ruth 4:10), so Chilion must have married Orpah.
  • Lynn on Ruth 1
    The question Who was Mahlon's married to/ wife: Answer Orpha

    The bible does not explicitly say. 50% chance it is true, but the bible does not tell us.

    Just like Shem, Ham & Japheth- it would be an error to think Shem is the oldest.
  • Nick Kornev on Ruth 1
    Ruth was faithful to God!
  • Jaleesa Freeman - in Reply on Ruth 1
    Indeed she was!!!
  • Sarah on Ruth 1
    Naomi must have been absolutely devastated over the loss of her husband and her two children and grieving heavily.


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