Romans Chapter 8 Discussion

  • Khumiso on Romans 8 - 6 months ago
    God's LOVE has to be the greatest things of all time. The devil tries he's hardest to separate us from God and the love he has to offer but always bare in mind that it will never happen because he's love is sufficient and everlasting.

    I hope and pray that I..........and all of you will begin to see yourselves the way Jesus Christ sees us. We are perfected in him.
  • Caldwell Jim on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Someone should emai Romans 8:28

    to be Putin!
  • Gerald - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Who said Noah was a Hebrew?

    Indeed Noah was a descendent of Adam ( as we all are ) but it was when Abraham was separated FROM his generation and finally separated into God did he become the father of the faithful .

    But Abraham had two sons . Both were not Hebrew . But only the son of promise not the son of flesh of the bond woman.
  • Baker - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Go back read Genesis 6:11 - 22 where Gods makes a covenant with Noah and his family and tells him to bring aboard the ark two of every flesh/sort male and female . are the wicked a sort ? How about People of color ? is it possible man was already on earth and populated it before Adam ? is it suggested in the beginning God made the races on the fifth day of creation both male and female ? is a thousand yours on earth just a day to God ? I have read where they do suggest . and Noah brought aboard two of every race color and creed .

    The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

    And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

    And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

    But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

    And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Hello Robert, The Hebrew people descended from Eber (sometimes called Heber) who was the great grandson of Shem through Arphaxad and then Salah.. Genesis 10 shows the Table of Nations that descended from Noah's sons Shem, Japheth and Ham. Genesis 11 speaks more about the descendants of Shem from which came the name Semite.

    The Hebrew people included many peoples descended from Eber. He had two sons, Joktan (had 13 sons) and Peleg. he had other sons and daughters also. The lineage of Peleg is the line from which Abraham descended. So. Abraham and his lineage were but one of many lines from Eber. So, there were and are many Hebrew peoples that did not descend from Abraham. Yet God chose Abraham out of all the descendants of Noah to select out a specific subgroups of Hebrews to be His chosen people to covenant with.

    In the world today, there are people who descended from Shem, Ham, or Japheth. Many are a mix of these lineages over the generations. We are not all Hebrews due to this.
  • Robert Scott Catuska on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    If all people were destroyed and Noah and his family were the only ones left on the earth then we all are children of Noah. That being said why are we not all Hebrew?
  • T. Levis - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Acts 1, Acts 2, Acts 10:36-48,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • Gabriel A Enoch on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Please i want more explanation about the baptism in the name of jesus christ
  • Randy McGuire on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    I can't help to think of what scripture teaches us when reading and studying the book of Romans. All of God's creation is seeking deliverance but only those that have been born again will find this deliverance in Christ alone. Only those that have the spirit of God have hope when seeing death all around us. We see and know the world is fallen, and creation is groaning longing for God since the fall of Man. Creation itself teaches us that they is a God and that there is a curse. People will be without excuse teaching some other way to heaven and deny the Lord Jesus that hung and died for all that would believe in him. The world that is fallen a world full of religion has polluted the minds of so many by bring in damnable heresies. Yes, he is God, you bunch devils, you

    religious Pharisees and Sadducees. This is for the real religious that have not the spirit and those that don't believe in the resurrection. Hell Fire and brimstone preach let's preach Christ. Read how Jesus spoke to this crowd. Thank Lord for this it was good.
  • Ronnette - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    I am very uplifted to read your comment. We comforted one another until the end. Your joy is my joy. Peace to you and your family. You have my prayers. I thank God for you letting me know How great to communicate with my fellow believer. Have a blessed weekend. Thank you.
  • Free - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Thank you Ronnette, we need such comforting words sometimes.

    I also think how timeless the Bible is.


    God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ.
  • Ronnette on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    This chapter helped me to overcome physical pain. I thank and glorify God for sending His only begotten Son Jesus Christ so we can endure all things until the end. I also thank God for those who truly understand the Bible. I do not pretend I do understand it all. I pray and listen to the little voice that backs up the scriptures. There is Indeed dispensation in the Bible. Some verses appear to be contradicting, but it is not. The messages are clear that there are verses that applies to both us and the Jews spiritually, and there are some that applies to only the Jewish people in different times. The Book of Acts is indeed a transitional book. Jesus Christ had chosen The Apostle Paul and revealed to Paul how to be truly saved. I pray that people see the message and Gospel we will be judge in the end. There are so many things I can explain, but the scriptures are clear enough for those who truly seek God. Ever since I realized my existence in this world (at a very young age) I recognized cruelty and sadness from people. But God helped me navigated through all that journey knowingly and unknowingly. Mistakes and Errors accompanied that experienced. The sure thing I knew is that I was guided by a very powerful spirit now I know it was and it is God. So making God your best friend at such a young age really helps as it mentioned in the scriptures. It really helps to pray and talk to God in a regular basis of conversation. Listening to men are fun but listening to God is the best men can do. It seems that the more I share my Godly experience to all of you readers the sooner I feel I am better already. At the end of this comment, I am happy to say I have no pain. Glory to God. Agape to all.
  • Lisa Wilson on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Amen Thank you Our Father
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Amen Brother Chris.

    God bless you.
  • Chris - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Thanks brother S. Spencer for that great article which clearly describes why the 'evil' we face in the world is actually God's opportunity for the demonstration of His Love; that in one sense, evil should be welcomed that we might both prove & delight ourselves in that all-surpassing Power of His Love towards us to overcome it & have peace going through it. Paul expressed this same thought when afflicted with that 'thorn in his flesh' ( 2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

    But would the skeptic see it this way? Some might as they genuinely seek to understand the matter at this deeper level. Though I dare say, that most skeptics would rather believe in & desire a god of their own making - one that resembles a Father Christmas, with plenty of Ho, Ho, Ho, giving gifts & removing all pain & sorrow. But the quick fix they seek for their ills can never fix the far greater evil of sin - only a loving God can do that, giving hope in this life and a sure promise for the next.
  • ELB - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Brother Don:

    Ephesians 1:11 In whom (in Christ) we (all creation) have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS WILL.

    Part of God's will is that ONLY a FEW will receive their inheritance in the first resurrection.

    The rest will receive their inheritance after the second resurrection.

    Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH (till the second resurrection) for the manifestation of the Sons of God (first resurrection).

    Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF shall be DELIVERED from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION (the grave, second resurrection) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Why are they waiting until the second resurrection, the resurrection to JUDGEMENT.

    Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them (second resurrection) the JUDGEMENT WRITTEN (their inheritance), this HONOUR hath all his saints (first resurrection).

    Isaiah 26:9 ....for when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth (second resurrection) the inhabitants of the world (second resurrection) will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    1 Corinthians 15:28 .....that God may be ALL IN ALL.

    God Bless YOU!
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 7.

    Why does a God of love allow evil? Because He is a God of LOVE.

    So Great a Salvation

    So, how practical is Christianity? The Bible presents an infinite Creator with the very attributes we would expect when we examine the things that are made. And God, as a personal Being, in order that He might have a love relationship with us, gave us the capacity of choice. In order that we might have a practical revelation of His love, His wisdom, His power, His glory, He became one of us in the person of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

    In order that we might not suffer the penalty of our evil choices (sin), He, like a loving father, paid the penalty for our sins. He allowed his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to be murdered on a Roman cross (arguably the most evil act in the history of the universe, if He is indeed God's Son). But this act of great evil gave rise to an even better state of affairs, and the greatest act of love in the universe: paying the penalty for the wrong choices we make, which were the result of the way He created us in the first place! In the cross of Christ He has provided a full pardon from the consequences of the evil in our lives. Consequently, we cannot look to God and declare that He is unfair. Far from being a devil, in this examination of the problem of evil, God becomes the hero of the plot and the solution to the problem of evil. And it all hinges on LOVE. Indeed, God is love.3 What must we do to receive this pardon?

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

    If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 6.

    In the hypothetical scenario I presented to this woman, with the advantage of hindsight (foreknowledge in this case) she was in a position comparable to God's before He created humankind. Because He is outside time and knows all things, He knew that there would be tremendous pain and suffering as a result of His decision to create a people with the capacity of choice and, consequently, the capacity to sin (moral evil).

    But God, like this mother, knew that the love He and his human creatures would experience would outweigh the pain and suffering that would result from His decision to create us as He did. But the consequences of God's decision were not unforeseen. They were foreknown!

    The Incredible Answer

    The skeptic that emailed me stated, in effect, that if an all-powerful God did not eliminate evil, then He was a devil! The implication is that the removal of all evil would permit a better, more loving world. A truly loving God, the skeptics assert, would have desired and created such a world because it is clearly superior to the one we have. Any God that did not follow this logic was not a God of love, but an evil tyrant.

    As we have seen, this logic crumbles under its own weight. The existence of evil is the "side effect" of creating a world with love. But as we have seen, there are compelling arguments that a world possessing both evil and love is superior to a world where neither is possible. For God to eliminate evil, He would have to eliminate our capacity of choice and thus our capacity to do both evil and good. And such a world is inferior to the one we have: one where love is possible, despite its inherent evil. What kind of God would do this? Only one kind. A God of love.

    See Part 7.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 5.

    But the skeptic says, "why did God do this when he knew in advance that the result of free will would be so disastrous? Did this God of love not care that war, murder, rape and so much senseless violence would be the result of his choice to give us free will?" A real life illustration will help us to understand.

    The Love of a Mother

    During my 15 years as a physician I have seen an enormous amount of physical suffering. During that time I have had five children in my practice die by disease and injury. All of these children came from Christian families. Several months after the death of one of these children, the child's mother was in my office and was very distraught over her loss. She asked me, "Why did God allow this? I love God. Why did this happen?"

    What could I say in this situation? Rather than providing an answer I asked her this question. "You have three children. One of them has died. If you could go back to the time before you had any children, with the knowledge that one of them would die this horrible death, would you have children again?"

    After a long pause, with many tears in her eyes and a broken heart she said, "Oh yes. Oh yes. yes I would. Because, you see, the love and the joy and the happiness I have received from my children far outweighs the pain, suffering and misery I experienced from the loss of that one child. Oh yes. Oh yes. I would have children again."

    In this tragic story we see an incredible insight as to why God allows evil to exist. As discussed earlier, a loving God can allow an evil state of affairs to exist if, in allowing it to occur, it brings about an even better state of affairs. For this woman, the loss of her child was an unequalled and tragic evil. But, with the advantage of hindsight, she said she would do it all again because the love she received as a result of being a mother outweighed the evil state of affairs in the death of her child.

    See Part 6.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 4.

    God, Freedom, and Evil

    The problem of human evil is rooted in the nature of God and the nature of love and the nature of mankind. I argued in last month's Personal UPDATE that God is a personal being because an impersonal force is an insufficient agent to create personal beings.2 What is the greatest passion of personal beings? I would argue that, above all else, personal beings desire personal relationships with other personal beings. So it makes sense that God, as a personal being, would desire to create us in such a way that He could have a meaningful, personal, and loving relationship with us. But this has a severe price.

    Let us consider the nature of love and its consequences. I cannot experience love from you unless you have the capacity to do otherwise. If you have the capacity to not love me, and you choose instead to love me, then that choice has validity. It has meaning. You cannot have a love relationship with a computer. It is pre-programmed to serve you. Love requires choice: unencumbered choice. And that's where the problem lies.

    When God created mankind, He too had a choice. If He created us as beings that were pre-programmed to follow and serve Him, there could be no love. But, if He created us with the capacity of choice, the capacity to love and serve Him, and the capacity not to do so, then there is the possibility of relationship: the possibility of real love. As a personal being with the capability of creating us in the first place, it makes sense that He would want to create us as personal beings with the capability of choice (free will) and, thus, the capability of love. But where there is choice and the capability of love, there is also the capability to choose wrong and to do great evil.

    See Part 5.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 3.

    Atheists often present the problem of evil to theists as if it is a fatal argument for the existence of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, it is an absolutely unsolvable problem for the atheist. How does the atheist explain evil-the sense of moral right and wrong-in the absence of a moral Lawgiver? They can't! If there is no moral Lawgiver, then there is no way to explain the sense of moral wrong and moral right we all possess. C.S. Lewis said that evil is God's megaphone to a non-believing world. Evil speaks of moral law. Moral law demands a moral Lawgiver, and it is He that we call God!

    Evil Often Begets Good

    A second principle of logic we need to consider is the fact that an apparently evil state of affairs will often bring about an even better state of affairs. The problem is that we often do not recognize this fact until we have the advantage of hindsight. In my own field of medicine I see this on a daily basis: the process of childbirth, surgical intervention, and many medical therapies often present physical pain (an evil state of affairs according to non-theists), and yet they bring about an even better state of affairs: improved health. Physical pain is often highly beneficial as well. When a child touches a hot stove, the nervous system sends a neurological signal to the brain which is perceived as pain (a form of evil). Yet without that sense of pain, an even worse state of affairs would arise: the destruction of the limb.

    The skeptic might object that while this provides a partial answer to the problem of evil, it does not address some of the most disturbing forms of evil: war, murder, rape, incest and the senseless death of the innocent.

    See Part 4.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Part 2.

    Evil and Moral Law

    When someone states that they do not believe in God because a good God would not allow evil, they make a fatal error in logic. First, the recognition of evil is the recognition that certain actions are "right" and certain actions are "wrong." But how do we determine what actions are morally right and morally wrong? We discern this on the basis of a moral law: a universal sense that certain states of affairs are right and others are wrong. Even most atheists will admit that certain actions are universally wrong and, conversely, universally right.

    For example, no one could seriously argue with the statement that it is better to love a child than to torture it. The point is that there is an innate, universal sense of right and wrong within all of us. What is the basis of this moral sense? Some would argue that it is based on cultural customs or traditions. But can this be so?

    The famous atheist Bertrand Russell once debated a Christian who asked him if he believed in right and wrong. Russell replied "of course." Then he asked him how he determined what is right and wrong. Russell replied that he determined right and wrong on the basis of his feelings. His opponent replied, "Well, in some cultures they feel it is okay to eat you, and in others they don't. Which do you prefer." The point is that social customs, attitudes, traditions or feelings cannot determine a universal sense of right and wrong.

    A universal sense of moral right and wrong can only come from a source outside of ourselves: a transcendent source, a moral Lawgiver. So the recognition of moral law is by default the recognition of a moral Lawgiver. To argue that the existence of evil proves that there is no God is equivalent to stating that the existence of moral law proves that there is no Lawgiver! It's like declaring that the Chrysler automobile that I drive proves without a doubt that there is no Chrysler Motor Company!

    See Part 3.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Hi Don.

    Here's a interesting article from koinonia House.

    Part 1

    In my experience, it is the most commonly asked question by honest skeptics: "If God is real, if God is personal, if God loves us, why does God allow evil?" A proper understanding of this issue not only provides great insight into the nature of God, it ties together a comprehensive understanding to some of life's ultimate questions: the answers to my origin, meaning, morality and destiny!

    Email from A Skeptic

    The question of evil was brought into clearer focus in an email I recently received from a skeptic:

    The Christian worldview is an impractical, even phony, view of the Cosmos because it embraces a God who is either incapable of stopping evil and suffering, and he is therefore not omnipotent, or is unwilling to do so and therefore a devil!

    The skeptic's point is well taken because the Bible states that one of God's attributes is love. "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." ( I John 4:8) In the book of Romans, Paul the Apostle stated that the invisible attributes of God "are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead."1

    However, what the skeptic is saying, in effect, is this: "If your God is love, I see no evidence of that attribute in creation. All the death, disease, pain and suffering seems to be out of place if this God of yours is love. Surely an all-powerful God could, and a loving God would, eliminate all evil. Since evil exists, then no such God exists."

    To answer this objection we need to examine some principles of logic, the nature of God, the nature of man, the nature of love and the nature of evil.

    See Part 2.
  • Chris - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    I agree Don, this subject can be very intriguing. Each one has to come to grips with it in his own way according to the light granted him.

    My belief rests upon all the Scriptures I can bring together on theology; & even then I remain open to the many Truths that exist that I'm not privy to.

    From what you've written, I always try to separate what man sees & understands and what God already knows & determines accordingly. My (human) view is that God has granted me free will, even as I exercise it continually, daily. In respect to spiritual conversion, I responded to His Spirit's bearing upon me. But did my free will & reception of Jesus catch God by surprise & compelled Him to alter His Plans for my life, both present & into eternity? No.

    Because of God's View: He already knew I would exercise the free will granted me & the resulting paths I would tread in life, either destined for good or evil. Then as a believer, hopefully I will no longer exercise my Will according to carnal determinations but to the Spirit's leading.

    And likewise with re-birth: as much as Christ's Sacrifice has availed for all mankind, not all will respond to the plea. Does God then select who He wants & who will be rejected? Or is His 'selection' fully based on what He already knows will transpire with each soul? Or else, how could it be said that "He is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance"?

    With that said, it can be erroneously assumed that God is partial & conducts a lottery to accept some & reject others. If a man is damned for eternity, it's because he has refused to turn from sin & to a waiting Savior & will not have excuse in that day of judgement saying, 'I tried to come but I was refused or was not destined by God to be saved '.

    So Ron, I always try & understand such 'mysteries' from God's perspective & because of Who He is, because my human view will always lead me to error & confusion. May He lead you in your further thoughts on this.
  • ELB - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Brother Don:

    Man DOES NOT have free will.

    Man was made to be a BODY; or a vessel.

    Vessels, or bodies, have NO LIFE.

    Bodies, or vessels, were made to HOLD the LIFE of GOD.

    God is Spirit.

    Spirit cannot be seen.

    God created a BODY; Jesus Christ, that can be seen.

    The body of Christ HOLDS the Life of the FATHER.

    Christ came, as sinful flesh, and sinful flesh DIED on the cross, three days latter the Father resurrected, HIS (the father's) BODY, Christ.

    1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath immortality dwelling in the light .....

    All mankind took part in that resurrection.

    At some point in time God's creation will become the IMAGE (the body) of Christ.

    Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery .....Christ in you .....

    Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Christ in you) that worketh IN YOU (his body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

    1 Corinthians 15:38 For God GIVETH IT (his creation) A BODY as it hath PLEASED HIM, and to every SEED HIS OWN BODY ( the Father's body Christ).

    HIS WILL, not man's free will, because man has NO LIFE outside of GOD, man is just the BODY of Christ (Life and Truth).

    Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye (his body) are gods, the children of the most high.

    Psalms 136:2 O give thanks unto the GOD of gods (God's body) .....

    Daniel 2:47 .....of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods ....

    John 17:21 That they (the bodies) may ALL be ONE, as thou, Father are IN ME (the body), and I in thee, that they (all bodies) may be ONE IN US ....

    Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE BODY ....ONE SPIRIT .....

    Ephesians 4:6 .... ONE GOD ....FATHER OF ALL ....above ALL ....through ALL ....and IN YOU ALL .....

    Hosea 4:6 For my people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE: because thou has rejected KNOWLEDGE, I will also reject thee (his body) ......

    Amos 3:3 Can TWO (the LIFE and the BODY) walk TOGETHER without being agreed?

    God Bless you, his body!
  • Don Rhyne on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    The only way I can slowly bring these two concepts together is God selected ( predestined) whole human race at creation to come unto Him and eventually to Christ, Romans 1:18-20. The human race has a bare knowledge of the existence of God based being created in His image. And later conformed to the image of His Son. Here is where " free will " comes into play, we can decide to believe and have faith in God and in Christ or not. God has built in to us the ability to know Him at creation but has also given us the " free will" to develop more knowledge or less knowledge of Him and Christ.
  • Alex N - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Don i know that Jesus said there wd be few that wd be saved...But that was under the old covenant the law....But under the New Covenant he says i will know them ALL which is an intimacy that is gona result in a birth of Christ in everybody....Thays y Isaiah saw KNOWLEDGE covering the earth as the waters cover the seas....Thus the lord will KNOW everybody UNDER THIS NEW COVENANT.

    .....When Jesus spoke of the BABES AND SUCKLINGS which are his seed the words of the book, living words ....Those are the ones who are gonna be preordained and predestinated as Gen 22 : 17 speaks of his seed that are gona be as the stars of heaven in multitude which are the babes and sucklings....His seed which are spirits the H.G. plural an Israel of God....Mankind can only be a joint heir with the H.G. that Child of Promise....The H.G.

    When ya interpret Romans 8 : 29 as being a few men then you are in essence saying that Christ only died for a few men which wd be a false doctrine...Verse 33 in ROMANS 8... Who shall lay anything to the charge of Gods Elect,...Its only the H.G. that is Gods Elect...The ISRAEL of God....Its only the H.G. that is the Gift of God the Israel of God as Jesus told the woman at the well.

    .....Mans carnal mind cannot comprehend the enormity of Gods love for humanity and his new Covenant...I will KNOW them all from the least to the greatest...Thus the babes and sucklings the Children of Promise..And thats who is preordained b/f the world was....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven and God was so passionate about this Promise that he swore by himself....Thats y Jesus was saying to whom the WORD came it made them Gods ....Don't believe Tulip doctrine its of the Devil its the result of taking the bible literal...mans carnal mind etc....ok lemme go
  • Alex N - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Don i hear ya....But we have to realise that it wd make God Almighty a hypocrite if he only saved a few....When the stain and the spot of adam was applied to ALL MEN no exceptions....We get into Tulip mans carnal doctrine of Gd only saving a few...And the rest of humanity going to hell...I know that Jesus said few will be saved...But this is only for LIL WHILE it was hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes and Sucklings....But our Lord said if i be belifted up I will draw all men unto me....This is what happened when carnal man tries to interpret the scriptures....We gotta realise that the greatest predestination Scripture is when God swore by himself that CHRIST wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven Genisis 22 : 17 kjv.

    .....This Romans 8 : 29 is not about man being glorified but about Christ being predestinated and Glorified and man being a joint heir with Christ....Its Christ that is gonna be the 1st born of many brethren...If ya interpret Romans 8 : 29 as man being GLORIFIED and preordained you are in essence saying that satan is gonna be preordained....Thats how Tulip got started that only a few wd be saved and all the rest wd go to hell....In essence saying that Jesus wd only die for a few..In essence saying that God neva did love the whole world just a few which wd make God a respector of persons...This TULIP doctrine was the result of bible schools ( carnal teaching ) ... Zech 12 : 10 tells us that its Christ that is gona be the 1st born of many brethren.

    .....Mankind can only be a Joint HEIR with Christ....Its only Christ and his seed that is gona be multiplied as the stars of heaven Gen 22 : 17 kjv...ALL of mankind carried the stain and the spot of adam which is our old adamic nature that HAS to go thru the baptism of fire and the H.G. As Jesus said every sinner has to have his part in the lake of fire...which is God as our God is a consuming fire that wants to consume mans Evil Adamic nature....Its only the babes n sucklings .
  • Don Rhyne - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago

    Thank you for your nice reply.

    I have always wrestle with the area, as I do with " free will" . In my feeble mind these two concepts tend to oppose each other.

    If God, all knowledgeable , all knowing, has predestined ones to be His faithful sons and daughters, then he has predestined others to " hell". Based on this, do we truly have " free will", at least in this area.

    By the way, I seriously wrestle with this, and have for many years, it is such a cloudy area for me.

    Have a blessed day.
  • Chris - In Reply on Romans 8 - 1 year ago
    Hello Don. You asked, "has God preselected the ones who are to be saved through Christ?" I believe He has. But I don't believe that's the full story, because as you shared the reference Romans 8:29, those whom God has predestined were those He also foreknew.

    If we then look at those aspects of God's Work in Romans 8:29,30, we see firstly, His Foreknowledge (a knowledge of all things past, present & future). Based on that knowledge, He predestined some to become His children (as His Son is & His adopted ones would be - Ephesians 1:5). Then God's Work upon us begins: those predestined are now called to come to Him/drawn to Him - John 6:44. Those whom He has called, God applied to them the outcome of the Cross, i.e. of Justification - the guilty declared not guilty by reason of substitutionary payment made on their behalf. And those so justified, have received glorification - in part now with the indwelling Holy Spirit (the "earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession" - our completed redemption & glorification fitted out for Heaven: Ephesians 1:14).

    Then what part "does our faith in Christ Jesus do for us?" Those whom God has predestined, called, & justified, are those who would be blessed with the gift of Faith - Faith that is needed for God's Grace to do its mighty work ( Ephesians 2:8). What then is the Gift of God? It is both His Grace poured out upon us plus the Faith to apprehend it & fully rest in it. One might ask, 'Can such a person drawn of God resist Him?' I would reply with questions: 'Would God even draw one who wouldn't be saved? Would the one being drawn want to resist the Love of God in Christ & the Holy Spirit's Work of Conviction? And, even if barriers were set up by Satan to obstruct the passage of the sinner into eternal life, would not the God Who makes no mistakes, still bear upon the sinner that he might understand the Truth & find that his hope lay in Christ alone?' John 6:37-40 - none of His will be lost.

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