Romans Chapter 5 Discussion



 
  • The Three Persons of the Godhead - in Reply on Romans 5
    The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

    Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

    Isaiah 6:8

    Romans 1:20

    Colossians 2:9

    Acts 17:27-30

    1 John 5:7

    John 10:30

    "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (us), even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

    Father Purposes

    Jesus speaks the Word

    The Holy Spirit (action) accomplishes it

    If you are born again, the Holy Spirit seals you; He is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. He indwells you. Comforts you. He is your Teacher. He anoints you to understand scripture. He is your Helper. He is gentle, and kind. He reveals Jesus to you.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Romans 5
    Ana, may CHRIST IN US (Spirit of God) grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Genesis 1:2 ... And the (Holy) Spirit of God moved upon the waters.

    Genesis 1:1 In the BEGINNING God (the Spirit) created heaven and earth.

    The SPIRIT (of GOD) is the only ONE (LIFE) that is eternal; no beginning and no end.

    We are GIFTED (GRACED) through the WORKS of CHRIST (Spirit of GOD) with this same GIFT (no end to life); GIFTED to those that believe in the THE WORKS OF GOD (SPIRIT).

    Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which SHALL BE CREATED (in the likeness of Christ; LIFE and BODY)(FULLNESS of GOD) shall praise the LORD.
  • Fighting Back - in Reply on Romans 5
    God had already had Lucifer thrown to earth. Satan was lurking in the Garden, studying Eve and Adam, looking for weak places; a way to tempt them.

    Eve was tempted with food.

    On his 40 day fast in the wilderness, Jesus was tempted with food by Satan.

    It's probable that even now, Satan is tempting people with food, fame, power, delusions of grandeur, ponzie schemes etc.

    Reading that passage shows the ways Satan tempts us. Also, how Jesus defeated him every single temptation! He used the Word of God.

    "It is WRITTEN!! You shall not tempt the Lord your God."

    "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word out of the mouth of God."

    That's exactly how we are to fight Satan. Your bank of scripture, written in your heart, directly decides who is going to win the Battle (spiritual warfare). If you got nothing, you may get hurt.

    Scripture is your arsenal. Personally, I want some long guns, missiles, etc. Look what Satan did to Job.

    Jesus gave us Ephesians 6, and he means for us (men , women, kids, grandparents) to wear the Armor of Jesus Christ and use the weapons.... the Word of God.
  • Another Point of View on Romans 5
    For those who think God is violent and mean, throughout the Old Testament: On 'Bible study tools dot com is an good read on this very subject.

    Google this: Is God More Violent in the Old Testament Than the New?
  • Richard in Christ on Romans 5
    Good day my brothers and sisters in the Lord,

    As I may have stated these things before I believe they are a way of pointing to the Divinity of Christ or His pre-existence. Being one with the Father.

    Many places throughout the NT it is stated that when we are "born again" we receive the Holy Ghost from above. Which also in many places we have the Spirit of God in us and the Spirit of Christ in us. I hope no one would just want to pick one out of the three.

    We are told the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth in several places. We know the Spirit of God is life. As in Genesis 2:7 God brought fourth life to the dust He formed us from by the breath of life. So there's two things that connect directly to John 14:6 Jesus Christ saying "I AM" these things.

    We know Jesus Christ is the Mediator between God and man. I don't see any way of someone being this except He were both. God and man. We see even in the OT denoting our Creator having a Son. Before He was born of the flesh here. Proverbs 30:4.

    We know about John 1 in that He is the Word of God who became flesh and dwelt among us. Also noted as the Lamb of God from John the baptist. Who also stated that one was coming after him who was before him. John was around six months older than Jesus Christ. This seems to point to pre-existence. Also as another stated to be a perfect sacrifice for the entire world I would think it would have to be more than just a "perfect human". Being the Lamb of God He is part of God.

    Again I know some have a their own view of these things. Though to just use the Scripture and let the Holy Ghost be your teacher it is sure.

    I want to end this with just saying how thankful I am that Lord has chosen me to have received His Holy Spirit. To live for Him. All the things He has allowed me to see, hear, feel. Priceless. There is nothing else that interests me anymore except to please our Father and thank Him continually for sending us His Son. To be reconciled with the Father through Him.
  • You Must Be Born Again To Meet God on Romans 5
    Critical thinking is the basic tenet of the skeptical approach. It is an approach that underpins all of its activities and findings, drawing on the scientific method (research, analysis and peer review) to provide the evidence for our points of view.

    Skeptic definition

    * a person who doubts the truth of Christianity and other religions; an atheist.

    * an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object; the doctrine that true knowledge or some particular knowledge is uncertain; the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism that is characteristic of skeptics (Merriam-Webster).



    * Skeptical theism is the view that God exists but that we should be skeptical of our ability to discern God's reasons for acting or refraining from acting in any particular instance.

    If we really want to believe that the Universe didn't explode in the Big Bang, and that our ancestors didn't crawl out of goo, stand up and walk into college.

    Why is it so hard to believe in God? He's

    Not a creator of weapons systems or video games,

    But a Creator of this planet we live on; fight and die for; enjoy every day of our lives.

    Scientists now say (recent info from satellites sent to study our solar system):

    All the planets once had huge bodies of water. Even Pluto. They see the water beds.

    They surmised that all of the water on other planets evaporated because of location to our Sun.

    How is it that only Earth has abundant water?

    Other planets closer to the sun than earth; and planets further into space behind earth: have only empty sea beds. PBS dot ORG, to see that scientific report.

    We serve a Godhead of unsearchable intelligence, knowledge, power, creative expression, intuition, communication.

    As some people say: haters are gonna hate; as do the doubters. Faith is a mystery. God loves people of FAITH.

    He reveals Himself to Believers. Why miss out on that? Are you a skeptic?

    Mishael
  • Sugarman on Romans 5
    "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee."

    Isaiah 60:1 (KJV)
  • Revelation you on Romans 5
    Revelation 1 verse 7

    Behold he cometh with clouds ;

    And every eye will see him ...

    Hardly secret or silent ?
  • Judge Martin - in Reply on Romans 5
    At the last trump, when the mystery is revealed; the king of kings doesn't need to come down to earth in secret.
  • Suziq - in Reply on Romans 5
    Definately NOT secret and silent ! As a young person i searched through many denominations looking for the Truth ,one very well known church actually believes that Jesus will be born again as a baby ! Im glad i didnt stick with them !
  • Joyce Joplin on Romans 5
    Scriptures pertaining to Judas hanging him self
  • Earl Bowman on Romans 5
    CAN SALVATION BE LOST?

    May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW...

    Very few will disagree that God creates every man; since, he created the reproductive process of man; therefore, he FOREKNOWS everyone.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he did ALSO PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the IMAGE of his SON, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among many BRETHERN.

    Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also CALLED (presently God is ONLY CALLING those that will be PRIEST in HIS KINGDOM) (the servants in the kingdom will be called at the second resurrection), and whom he CALLED, them HE JUSTIFIED: and whom he JUSTIFIED, them he also GLORIFIED.

    Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall also take thereof a FEW in number ....

    Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the FIRE (IN CHRIST; Hebrews 12:29), and burn (purify; Malachi 3:2-3) them in the FIRE (IN Christ); for thereof (the Priest) shall a FIRE (the saints judging the world; Revelation 21:8) come forth to the house of Israel.

    NO ONE is going to alter GOD's PLAN; whatever God PREDESTINED that you are going to do in his kingdom, YOU WILL DO.

    All is the works of God; he uses man to do the labour.

    1 Peter 1:2

    Ephesians 1:5

    Romans 9:13

    John 5:70

    Ephesians 1:4
  • Carleton - in Reply on Romans 5
    I hope no one is disputing the body of Christ on this website.

    :)
  • Dean Warner on Romans 5
    What does "as above, so below mean"?
  • Earl Bowman on Romans 5
    Brother adam, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

    we don't have to wait for judgement day to be born again (saved).

    ephesians 1:4 according as he hath chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    romans 5:8 but god commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners he died for us.

    psalms 106:8 nonetheless he saved them for his name sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known.

    isaiah 43:25 i, even i, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake....

    jeremiah 14:7 o lord, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name ....

    ezekiel 20:44 and ye shall know that i am the lord, when i have wrought with you for my name .....

    there is dozens of scriptures that say, god does everything for his name; we are the beneficiaries of his works; for his name.

    we are graced!
  • Adam - in Reply on Romans 5
    Dear Earl,

    Maybe you were intending to respond to me on a another thread- not sure.

    There are 2 funamental differences of opinion among Christians:

    1. Fight the good fight

    2. The battle is already won

    It seems some people believe Jesus did all the work and all someone needs to do is respond to an altar call once in their life for about 3 minutes and they are instantly saved for eternity. To them this means they can kick back and enjoy life, even enjoy sin, because grace, right?

    That is a fundamental different perspective than one who reads the verses about running the race, keeping the armor of God on, watching out for the devil as a lion on the prowl waiting to devour you, living not of the world, being a light, realizing you're persecuted for your beliefs and trying to stand strong in the face of evil. Realizing that all the parables (warnings) Jesus gave about most people not making it to heaven is real, and realizing that He was even warning His own followers (Christians). If Jesus already paid the debt and won then why did Jesus preach at all? And why did Paul? Was that a waste of time? Should we fear God who can send us to hell as it says in the Bible?

    Here's a page of verses related to running the race, etc. But if the battle is already won then why would any of this be written in the Bible and why would it be needed? Link

    Is it conceivable that a lot of people will be surprised they aren't allowed into heaven? Even Christians who thought they were 'good people'? Who cried out Lord, Lord... and begged and rationalized. I think the reality is one group sometimes can rest in God's grace more, but the other group should be afraid of going to hell, should get their act together, should obey Jesus, should not follow the world of sin anymore. Jesus said to avoid sin, not enjoy sin. Satan is giving people fake news and people are believing it. Matthew 7:21

    2 Corinthians 5:10 - all will have to face judgment, including Christians who assume they're saved, before salvation is actually given.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Romans 5
    Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    You say there is two fundamental opinions among believers:

    1 Fight the good fight

    or

    2 The battle is already won

    To anyone who understands the scriptures, this is not two opinions; but, ONE TRUTH. We fight the good fight; BECAUSE, the battle IS WON!
  • Simon - in Reply on Romans 5
    Earl,

    We will always need to wait for judgment day to be saved, not here on earth. We were set up to fail, and must die to be made whole.

    Finding a personal relationship with Jesus does not make anyone impervious to sin. Being "saved" can be a vehicle to proper behavior, a way to self reflect on how weak the flesh is.

    You can only be born-again through resurrection.

    God bless the one hundred forty four thousand first fruits.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Romans 5
    Brother Simon, may CHRIST IN US grace us with His wisdom and His understanding.

    I agree, we can only be born again BY RESURRECTION.

    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be Priests of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    This happens before the second judgement in Revelation 20:11-13

    Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore...

    Christ is telling the Sadducees; who did not believe in resurrection, that the ones APPOINTED TO DIE with him on his cross would never die again.

    Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come; and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.

    Psalms 102:20 ...to loose those APPOINTED TO DEATH

    Luke 20:36 ....being the children of the resurrection.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD.....

    Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose HOUSE WE ARE...

    John 5:22 For the father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son.

    2 Corinthians 5:10 We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ....

    We were RESURRECTED with Christ and Christ is dwelling IN US; therefore, Christ's THRONE is IN US and were are BEFORE the THRONE being JUDGED NOW by Christ (the word of God).

    1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed (flesh), but by incorruptible, by THE WORD (SPIRIT) of God, which LIVETH and ABIDETH forever. (you will never die again after you died ONCE with Christ).

    Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto man ONCE TO DIE (with Christ on the cross or later at the second death), but after this then the JUDGEMENT.

    Hebrews 9:28 .....and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (the first time was in the flesh; the second time in SPIRIT, you don't see him he is like a thief in the night) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.
  • Simon - in Reply on Romans 5
    Earl,

    A Biblical study on the 2 resurrections provides a generous amount of insights, rather than point blank omissions.

    The first resurrection is only of the house of Israel; no where is Judah mentioned. It's the lost sheep whom Jesus first set out after, the house of Israel buries the bones of Gog for seven months. (Ezekiel 39:12) The tribes of Levi, Benjamen, and Judah, 12,000 each have converted to the Lord Jesus Christ. They are the remnant of Israel.

    Some like to imagine being part of the first resurrection, but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. The only ones ever mentioned as "first fruits" are the one hundred forty four thousand, elect.

    The second resurrection: (Ezekiel 37:1-14) solidifies the order and nature of the resurrections. Here we see dry bones from the house of Israel and Judah stand up together as the whole house of Israel. The house of Judah was never part of the first resurrection, as those from the house of Israel were. This represent the second resurrection allegory of Israel.

    The second resurrection begs the need for a new earth and new heavens for billions of people entering...souls.

    You can disagree with anything I've said. If you have better insight, please share.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Romans 5
    Jesus came to this earth to provide mankind a savior. Prior to Jesus we did not have a personal savior to intercede with God on our behalf. Not only must we believe in him, we must try to be like him. We must repent from our sins, and strive to be sin free. That is ACTION....we must take ACTION!

    It is not enough to just believe in Jesus and you will be now and forever saved. There is no such thing a a get out of hell free card because you believe.

    Yes, we must fight the good fight. We are in a battle here on this earth against Satan and evil.

    Some seem to think that with Jesus death we can just believe and carry on our normal lives and we will be saved by his Grace. If this was true why would Jesus speak like this in the following two scritures.

    John 5:14

    "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

    John 8:11

    "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

    Jesus said: SIN NO MORE! Lest worse things will come to us that sin.......

    Jesus DID NOT say to those two sinners 'just believe in me and and my grace will take care of you!'

    In summary: Jesus is telling all of us to TAKE ACTION!

    God Bless
  • Richard in Christ on Romans 5
    Greetings to all,

    My feelings of believers, in Christ, being divided by all types of "doctrine and beliefs" is very saddening. I come as a peacemaker. As I have seen and been involved with debates about many things such as(needing to speak in tongues to know you have the Holy Spirit, keeping the 7th day Sabbath, you only have to believe to be saved, etc).

    I so understand that no one is exactly the same and we may have different perspectives on things. Us being able to have peaceful conversations with one another is a Blessing. Even though we all being different, with different gifts and abilities, Christ is the same.

    I just want to focus now on what I feel is most important. Love. If we truly live our lives with a pure heart founding ourselves on loving one another. We are fulfilling the law and God's Will. There is nothing greater than love. As Jesus Christ stated there is no greater love than to lay down his life for his friends. We should lay down our lives for Jesus Christ and let Him be the author of our lives. Him showing His love for us as He gave His life, as a perfect sacrifice, to save us from our sins. Also how much our Father loves us by sending His own Son to be a free gift of Salvation. That we may all be one in Him. He is the only way to the Father. The Lord searches hearts and knows all who are His. Let the Holy Ghost lead you to follow after Christ in His ways. To do what pleases Him.

    In truth I say that I love you all and all of you are in my prayers every day. I could go on and on though I want to just read the Holy Bible. I shall leave a just a couple Scriptures for you all that the Lord brought me to that fit this post.

    Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 4:7-19.

    In humbleness, God Bless you all!
  • Temeko on Romans 5
    If we are saved by grace and not works,why does the scriptures say the righteous scarsley make it in?
  • A daughter of God - in Reply on Romans 5
    God bless to all first of all, I have seen a lot of discussion on the commandment this is my view, Yes we we are commanded to follow obey and let these commandments be the guidance of our lives, and inm sure we all wake up when he wakes to follow each and everyone but as we see in the bible it also a great large list too very wide of what not to do, but do we understand that God has already let us know and told us in his word, we were conceived in sin, and saved by the shedding of his blood, but yet we are still sinners, we wrestle against the flesh inside of us each day, He already knows we can not follow each commandment each and every day, God know we will fall and fail on daily bases, it is why he says come to him to confess our sins, sincerely ask for repentance and forgiveness. Now we all know this does not mean go on keep sinning because God will forgive us, no indeed!!! that would be disastrous and dangerous to our salvation to do that. I believe God means and teaches us in the bible each day, rise up and do your very best to not sin, have an eye on on the enemy, be able to identify him, don"t stay focused on him keep your eye, your mind, your heart stayed on the Father, so we may use the tools the Lord has given us to overcome him and the sinful life. God yet again, says there is no one without sin no not one. We must remember to discuss the bible and all his truth with love and kindness, let's fall into the role of judgement toward each other, if some ones says something we don"t agree we must say we don't agree, or maybe say nothing and pray for the other person so that they may find the truth, and lovingly and move on share the good news we know, let's be careful in judging others how they were taught where they were taught, leave judgment and correcting up to our Father God for he he knows how to teach and correct us. Let share the word in love. Love all God Bless
  • Temeko - in Reply on Romans 5
    Thank you so much I needed every word, and I carefully read every word.

    Be blessed
  • Jesse - in Reply on Romans 5
    Temeko,

    In 1 Peter 4:18, it says, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    The word "scarcely" in the Greek text is a word that means difficulty. Jesus said that we would go through trials and difficulties as believers. What this is saying is that if the righteous are saved with difficulty accompanying them, not that it's difficult to get saved, but once we're saved, difficulty accompanies our salvation, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    I mean if we're going through hard times and we're saved, wow, wait 'til the sinner comes under the judgment of God. They won't even be found!
  • Temeko - in Reply on Romans 5
    Thank you for answering my last question, here's what I need to know ?

    Is the theory once saved always saved correct?and can you please explain salvation to me what does salvation mean?and can it be lost.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Romans 5
    (Part 3)

    Temeko,

    The most powerful Scriptures of God's keeping power are found in Romans 8:38-39. It says, "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor any thing which has come, nor things coming, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    The only way a person can be saved is by a spiritual birth from God, and the only way a person can keep his salvation is through the keeping power of God.

    This is what the Bible teaches about salvation. Salvation is permanent. It is man who has changed the emphasis from salvation by God to salvation by man, and it is part of the apostasy of the last days. People today are being told that they are saved because of some followed formula, but Jesus said in Matthew 7:16 that believers would be known by their fruits, not by their human works.

    If a person believes they can lose their salvation based on something they do, then it is a works-based salvation and has nothing to do with the Spirit of God and God's power to keep us saved.

    I place my trust in God and His power to keep me saved until the day he comes to redeem me. He says He is the one who is Keeping me and I believe and trust in His promise. It is Christ who lives in me. He has promised to NEVER leave me nor forsake me. And as long as He lives in me (Which He says He will never leave), I will be saved. And that is why I believe in the permanency of salvation.

    My salvation is not based on what I do or don't do. It is strictly based on what God has done for me. God called me, and I responded to the call and received Christ. He saved me, and it is through His power alone that I remain saved. I cannot trust in my flesh to remain saved because my flesh will never submit to the things of the Lord. I have to trust in the one who saved me, the one who has given me His Spirit, and the one who is keeping me saved!
  • Temeko - in Reply on Romans 5
    Thank you so much Jesse!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Romans 5
    (Part 2)

    Jesus Himself said in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will NEVER CAST OUT." Jesus goes on to say in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up in the last day." If you read John 17:11-12, you see that we are kept by God's power.

    I firmly believe in the permanency of salvation because the Bible teaches that God is the One who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8 that grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.

    In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 18, John says "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God IS KEEPING him, and the evil one does not touch him." John also says in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will NEVER PERISH FOREVER and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."

    Paul emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit. He says in Ephesians 1:13-14, "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."

    Paul says again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were SEALED FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION."

    (One more post to come)


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