Romans Chapter 5 Discussion



 
  • Jesse - in Reply on Romans 5
    Mark,

    What this means is they (Zachariah and Elisabeth) were Torah observant. What that means is when they committed an act of sin, they would bring their sacrifice according to the requirements of the law, and that's what it means by keeping the ordinances blameless.



    It doesn't mean that they were sinless. It just means that they did everything according to the Law. They were Torah observant and therefore they were righteous according to as the Torah is concerned. So as far as character you couldn't get two people that were more in line with the righteousness of the Torah than these two.
  • Duncan - in Reply on Romans 5
    its means on your own you can not make yourself righteous but by Gods mercy he has made us righteous.This is clearly done at the cross by the blood of Jesus.

    Romans 3:21

    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be jusBut now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
  • Mark Mastrogiovanni on Romans 5
    Romans 3:10 says there is none righteous no not one but

    Luke 1 says Zechariah and Elisabeth were

    righteous. How does one reconcile those 2

    verses?
  • The Light of Jesus on our Face - in Reply on Romans 5
    This is what encourages evangelism. People need to see our happiness and ability to endure crisis. They want to know why we have faith in Jesus.

    The Bible is more than a book. It's Words give life to anyone who will begin to read it. When we stop reading it, our lives sort of unravel. Nothing else can soothe our souls and give us faith to believe in meeting the God who wrote this Bible.

    It's best to begin our journey with our Savior, in the Gospels and on towards the books 1-2-3 John, in the back.

    It's about the planting and cultivating of Jesus's Church. We're to do that too :) For some people they become missionaries; others may fund a missionaries work. Not all churches have 5000+ members.

    As long as what we do is, "as unto Jesus Christ our Lord", anything we give towards the work (time, help, missions giving, commitment to pray prayers), the Gospel continues to bear fruit. Amen.

    The Tribulation is the reason we pray and preach. It's not a movie. It's really going to happen.

    Streetpreacher
  • Carl Mcmullen sr. on Romans 5
    when nobody else loves me ,God loves me uncondionaly In my sins he loves me ,my faults he loves me ,my weakness he loves me,and because he loves me he died for .for God so love the world that he gave is only begotten son.
  • Ronnette on Romans 5
    What a great chapter written by our Apostle Paul.

    Philippians 4:9

    Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

    Romans 5 is a perfect chapter to tell you the free gift I received in 11/11/21. The grace of God and the gift by grace made me open my eyes to a lot of precious things important to God for God's glory.

    Talking and praying to God. Reading the Bible like my life depends on His words day and night.

    I hope one can relate. I counted and mentioned each name of my family member. My son, His wife, their children. I know immediately figuratively I need to build an ark. I do not ask God why, but I just do what God tells me. Spiritually, I seem to know God is talking to me. So I started to pray and gave warning to some of my siblings both my husband's and my side. The total of them is 60 souls. I also have extended my warning to most friends. I cannot count.

    Here's the amazing part I know that God revealed to me. I can give warning that Christ is coming soon to all people that touches my life and help them how to be saved or I prepare my own family of nine to prepare the coming of Christ. There is something profound about this single task. So I decided to make sure I know I am the sole responsible for the emotional and spiritual heath of my family. I own the responsibility to remind them that God wants us to be holy. That Apostle Paul have written the book of Romans to the book of Philemon to tell us about our only hope and Saviour Jesus Christ. He also told us how to prepare and be saved for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. While yet waiting, the Apostle Paul and other apostles have written superfluous informative epistles on how to behave in these last days of preparations. More importantly, God gave us enough examples of what to do and not to do from the entire KJV Bible, Old and New Testament throughout the history of men. What a great free gift! Peace.
  • Paul ohonbamu on Romans 5
    man can only reign by grace that was release to him on the cross. When sin comes close to grace, it loses its grip, stamina and power because the power of Grace is greater, stronger and better than Sin. If we have not been able to overcome sin due to our own personal effort, it is time to plug into grace because it will swallow up all disgrace brought by sin.
  • Marke on Romans 5
    Sins of ignorance are not what sends sinners to hell. Romans 5

    Romans 5:13

    (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    No sinner goes to hell in ignorance. Condemnation is the sentence issued to those who reject the light clearly revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.

    John 3:19

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    Romans 1

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
  • Mishael - in Reply on Romans 5
    A Jewish historian offered this date:

    The Great Flood (known as the mabul in Hebrew) was sent by Gd in the year 1656 of Creation (2105 BCE), to cleanse the earth of mankind's corrupt ways. The only survivors were Noah, his family, and representatives of every living species, who found refuge in a specially designed ark.

    The story is told in detail in Genesis 6-11, which form the Parshah of Noach.
  • GiGi - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hi, I've researched this a bit.

    Most estimates are around 3500-3200 B.C.
  • Shirley on Romans 5
    Do we know at what time the world was flooded as in Noah and the a

    ark? Thank you!
  • Marke - in Reply on Romans 5
    I agree that all sinners are born sinners because of inherited sin from Adam. I don't know how many times or ways I can say that to convince you that I understand and believe that. However, I get the impression that you think a sinner will stand before God and that God will condemn the sinner to hell for Adam's sin. I do not believe that.

    I believe the sin that sends sinners to hell is the sin of rejecting the Word of God clearly delivered to that sinner by the Holy Ghost so that the sinner who rejects that clear understanding will be without excuse if he rejects it.

    Romans 1

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Romans 5
    I do not dispute that our own sins will be judged. But they are not the origin of sin in me or anyone else. The origin of sin in me was Adam's sin and it was already condemned. The disposition that hated the light already existed from the moment I was conceived.

    Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    This is part of David's confession of his sin with Uriah's wife and his murder of Uriah. It is a confession I make.

    This corruption of nature did not originate with me, and it did not originate from man's original created state. That corruption originated in Adam's deed of eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil against the commandment of God that carried the penalty of death. Was the penalty of death in that commandment only what occurred to Adam's during his 930th year when he physically died? No.

    Genesis 2:17

    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Adam was under the penalty of death the day he ate of the fruit, and it's guilt was sufficient to deny him the ability to live one more day. The penalty of death and judgement of all mankind could have taken place on the very day Adam's ate. Satan was counting on that, since he was judged that way. None of us would even exist had God chosen to carry out the penalty of death that way, and He was within His rights to do that, as he later showed under the Law when the penalties of those commandments were carried out the day it was confirmed by two witnesses.

    The 930 years and the birth of every human being since was all of grace. The animal(s) that died that day clothed them to give us all physical life. But not spiritual life

    Our mere existence is a gift of grace. And the origin of righteousness and justification in me now is not my righteous deeds or my righteous disposition it is of faith in Christ's righteousness, both in his deeds and in His nature.
  • Marke - in Reply on Romans 5
    I agree with your assessment of the devil and Adam in the Garden of Eden. I think you must be misunderstanding make when I say sinners are not condemned to hell for the sins of others, even for the sins of Adam, but are condemned for their own sin of rejecting Jesus. Here are more scriptures to highlight what I believe:

    John 15

    22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

    23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

    24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

    25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

    I mentioned earlier the sin of rejecting Jesus when enlightened by other Holy Spirit to come to Jesus for salvation. Some people call that the unpardonable sin. Jesus said in Mark 3 there is one sin that shall never be forgiven. John 3 says condemnation is rejecting the light. All of these verses say the same thing. Sinners are not condemned to hell because they were born sinners or did some bad things in their life. Sinners are condemned to hell for rejecting the witness of the Holy Spirit which has been made clear to them.

    Romans 1

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
  • Free - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hi dear "Marke" there is no one who can see this light you describe without the Holy Spirit. God will bless you with even more revelation and the spirit of knowledge Amen.

    Matthew 16
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Romans 5
    I conclude Adam and Eve were not created loving the darkness. Nor were they created doing evil deeds. Eve was not created deceived. They were not created with enmity in their hearts toward the light. Emnity only existed in the heart of the serpent toward God,, not man when he first comes on the scene, and this enmity extended to man. His lies are the original source of spiritual darkness, and he practiced deception on Eve to get her to make Adam disobey God. That introduced enmity between the serpent's seed and the seed of the woman who is Christ. Do you say otherwise?

    John 3 presupposes all of scripture is true since "In the beginning". He does not dispute anything Moses wrote, and in fact he makes it perfectly clear from the first words he wrote that Moses testimony is already entered into the record against mankind. Do you dispute that that? I don't.

    Arguing that the reason for the evil condemned in this passage is not attributed to Adam directly is irrelevant, because he has already plainly referenced it before and Chapter 3 cannot be interpreted as though Chapter 1 of his Gospel doesn't exist.

    If man was originally created without darkness in his heart, nor doing evil deeds and in fact literally lacked the knowledge of good and evil, as scripture clearly states in Genesis, how did it come about that mankind in John 3 now practices evil deeds and loves the darkness and hates the light with enmity? The condemnation John is talking about is completely impossible without the enmity of the serpent's seed against the seed of the woman that entered the world through God's curse upon the serpent when Adam and Eve fell.

    You plainly like to take God's words out of context, use them in isolation, and then apply them as though the rest of His word doesn't exist. That is an extremely bad way to interpret scripture.
  • Marke - in Reply on Romans 5
    Every sinner born into the world will later die because of sin inherited from Adam. That is what the Bible refers to as the first death.

    Revelation 20:6

    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Those who die the second death will die for their own sins, not Adam's.

    Ezekiel 18:20

    The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Romans 5
    (Not duplicate)

    Meyer's NT Commentary

    Romans 5:13 f. Demonstration, that the death of all has its ground in the sin of Adam, and the causal connection of that sin with death. This argument, conducted with great conciseness, sets out from the undoubted historical certainty (it is already sufficiently attested in Genesis 4-6) that during the entire period prior to the law ( Romans 5:14) there was sin in humanity; then further argues that the death of individuals, which yet has affected those also who have not like Adam sinned against a positive command, cannot be derived from that sin (sin against a positive command) prior to the law, because in the non-existence of law there is no imputation; and allows it to be thence inferred that consequently the death of all has been caused by the sin of Adam (not by their individual sins). Paul however leaves this inference to the reader himself; he does not expressly declare it, but instead of doing so he says, returning to the comparison begun in Romans 5:12 : for in that death-working operation of Adam's sin for all lay, in fact, the very ground of the typical relation to Christ.

    Romans 5:13-21 is all designed to prove the declaration started in Roman's 5:12:

    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Romans 5:13-14 shows that a lack of law couldn't stop the consequences of Adam's sin for mankind and Romans 5:20-21 shows the law only made it worse since in Adam more commands only = more sin. Paul shows Adam as a figure for (Jesus Christ) that was to come ( Romans 5:14) by paired comparisons of Adam and Christ. He gives the differences in the consequences of their acts ( Romans 5:15-17) before returning to what he started in Romans 5:12 that presents the similarities in the consequences of their acts ( Romans 5:18-19). Death/sin from Adam include spiritual death since life/righteousness from Christ includes spiritual life in this passage.
  • Marke - in Reply on Romans 5
    Maybe it would help to look at this from a different angle. Let's examine what the Bible says is the reason or are the reasons sinners go to hell.

    John 3

    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    I conclude from the text that God desires to save sinners because He loves them.

    I conclude from the text that God defines condemnation as rejecting the light He sheds on sinners by the Holy Spirit

    I conclude sinners are condemned for refusing to accept the light and refusing to come to the light when drawn by the Holy Ghost.

    Agree?
  • Marke - in Reply on Romans 5
    Every human ever born has either already died or will die because of Adam's sin. But nobody goes to hell because of Adam's sin. Sinners go to hell for their own sin and that sin is not the sin of ignorance.
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Romans 5
    Romans 5:15-19

    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    You do like picking out a single verse that supports your point when looked at all by itself, but a proof text doesn't work in this case (or in most cases actually). You have to at least address these verses to trace the idea you have proposed all the way through. Every one of these verses pair an aspect of Adam's fall with a counteracting aspect of Jesus Christ's saving work. A consistent pattern for handling all of these pairs and both halves within each pair would be what I would expect from Paul and should be given the benefit of the doubt over any inconsistent pattern for handling them absent a compelling reason for breaking the pattern.
  • Alex N - in Reply on Romans 5
    Marke let me remind you they died even before the law, death reigned from Adam to Moses before the law... Romans 5 : 19 ..For by 1 mans disobedience many were made sinners. And by 1 mans offence ( Adam ) judgement came upon ALL MEN to Condemnation...Even by the obedience of 1 man Christ Jesus shall many be made righteous...Now we see Ezech 18 in a better light...Lemme me tells ya abit about EZECH 18 Its about LAW SIN...Transgresssion of the law ..Under the law sin cd not be mputed to the Fathers Children....their sons ..Simply b/c the sons were already under the curse of Adam. They were were already under the curse of the law it wd be Double Jeopardy if God imputed the sins of the fathers to the Children...They ALL were already under the curse of ADAM and that CURSE CD NOT BELIFTED BUT BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB...Meaning only by Christ Jesus....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...But by the blood of an animal they got an annual reprieve...for law sin...But that did not get them the kingdom or a new heart or a new spirit...But if God imputed sin to the Sons for their fathers trangressions that wd be Double Jeopardy...As God is not unfair in anyway...
  • Marke on Romans 5
    Romans 5:13

    Sin is not imputed where there is no law.

    Romans 5:13

    (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    What does that tell us?

    1. That nobody goes to hell for Adam's sin.

    2. Salvation is not given to sinners for keeping the law.
  • Marilyn Bowman on Romans 5
    Thank God for his Word. Jesus died for the sins of men. I pray that all who haven't received Him, please do so. In Jesus Name. Amen.
  • David - in Reply on Romans 5
    Kathy R. Amick The only peace we have in this world is believing what we have in Christ, we will always deal with tribulation which is mental pressure, but because when walking by the spirit we are more than conquerors then we develop patience and glory in overcoming the tribulations.
  • Kathy R Amick on Romans 5
    what does the Bible mean by tribulations? And what does it mean that patience, experience?
  • Sacha - in Reply on Romans 5
    Carleton ,thankyou so much , Isaiah ch40 v29-31 with love to you and all yours ,in Christ Jesus our Precious Saviour . Cant wait to meet you all !
  • Michael - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hello Dan,

    The Apostle John says several times that Christians must obey the "commandments" of God. You would say that the Apostle John is referring specifically to the "10" commandments. Can you prove that to me with a verse? Also, why does he not say, even once, specifically, the "10" commandments?

    I believe the Apostle John is referring to all the "commandments" given to the Church. Notice...

    1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are THE "COMMANDMENTS" of the Lord".

    Christians obey the "commandments" of the Lord given to the Church through the Apostles in the epistles and not the 10 commandments given to the nation of Israel in the Old Testament. Christians are under the New Testament.

    Kindly.
  • Michael - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hello,

    Unfortunately, I think your missing the point. The point that I was making is that the persons of the Old Testament who did God's will, had God's favor and acceptance. Those who did not do God's will or stopped doing God's will, lost God's favor and acceptance.

    Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Joseph, David, and many others did what God told them to do and had God's favor. Cain, Korah, King Saul, and many others disobeyed God and lost God's favor.

    Would Noah have retained God's favor had he stopped building the ark? (No.)

    Would Korah have avoided being destroyed by God, had he stopped opposing Moses? (Yes.)

    1 Samuel 15:22-23 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in OBEYING THE VOICE OF THE LORD? Behold, TO OBEY is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also REJECTED THEE from being king.

    1 Chronicles 28:9 "And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but IF THOU FORSAKE HIM, HE WILL CAST THEE OFF FOR EVER."

    The Apostles, writing to the Christians, warned them time and time again to obey God and not to disobey God.

    See 1 Corinthians 10:1-12.

    Kindly.
  • Fighting Back - in Reply on Romans 5
    God had already had Lucifer thrown to earth. Satan was lurking in the Garden, studying Eve and Adam, looking for weak places; a way to tempt them.

    Eve was tempted with food.

    On his 40 day fast in the wilderness, Jesus was tempted with food by Satan.

    It's probable that even now, Satan is tempting people with food, fame, power, delusions of grandeur, ponzie schemes etc.

    Reading that passage shows the ways Satan tempts us. Also, how Jesus defeated him every single temptation! He used the Word of God.

    "It is WRITTEN!! You shall not tempt the Lord your God."

    "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word out of the mouth of God."

    That's exactly how we are to fight Satan. Your bank of scripture, written in your heart, directly decides who is going to win the Battle (spiritual warfare). If you got nothing, you may get hurt.

    Scripture is your arsenal. Personally, I want some long guns, missiles, etc. Look what Satan did to Job.

    Jesus gave us Ephesians 6, and he means for us (men , women, kids, grandparents) to wear the Armor of Jesus Christ and use the weapons.... the Word of God.


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