Revelation Chapter 7 Discussion Page 4



 
  • Kimberly Burrow - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    That information didn't come from me, I had a question about that at sent it in to Charles Stanley and that was his reply. Just didn't want to take credit for something that I didn't write. God bless you.
  • D.J. on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Kim B.

    Charles Stanley may very well be a devout Christian, a good man, an excellent preacher, and know what he is talking about concerning Scripture. No preacher, however, is correct concerning everything they preach ( Ecclesiastes 3:11).

    Understanding the 7th Day, Law and Grace, are important topics in the Word of God

    Some of the best education I have received concerning the Word of God came from Pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherds Chapel. A Bible scholar that many times stated: "Don't take my word for it, research it for yourself. From his advice, I realized that he was not always correct.

    2 Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
  • Mishael on Joshua 1013 - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Joshua 10:13

    And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher?

    So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

    They were fighting a battle and needed daylight to win the day. How awesome is God?!
  • Kim b - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    I got that straight from Charles Stanley. He has been a preacher for 2 decades. I don't think he's playing fast and loose. I think he knows what he is talking about.
  • PAUL WILLIAMS on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    What part of Bible states about when the sun stop turning
  • D.J. - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Kim Burrow

    Page 3

    Paul also wrote that "the Law is not of faith: But the man that doeth them shall live in them" ( Galatians 10:12); quoted from Leviticus 18:5. And Paul immediately reminds us that "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" ( Galatians 10:13) quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23. Those that hang on trees have transgressed the Law. Paul uses two passages from the Law to show us that we cannot live without the Law?

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    The words of Jesus confirm the 10 Commandments found in the books of the LAW, Exodus 20:1-17, Luke 10:27.

    The only people that do not NEED the Law are those that are not sinning. No matter how righteous we may think we are, we all sin every day and are made new (every day) through repentance and forgiveness.

    Just because we have been brought to Christ does not mean that we cannot fall away again.
  • D.J. - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Kim Burrow

    Page 2

    Concerning the abolishment of the Law of God:

    The book of Hebrews shows us that the 7th day, the Temple, the Tabernacle, the Ark of the Covenant, etc., are a copy or replication of what God has already established in Heaven.

    Hebrews 8:5 "They serve in a place that is a COPY and SHADOW of the heavenly meeting tent. This is indicated when Moses was warned by God when he was about to set up the meeting tent: See that you FOLLOW THE PATTERN that I showed you on the mountain in every detail;" from Exodus 25:40.

    The heavenly pattern is what we follow, and God has not left us any information concerning that being changed in any way.

    The fulfillment, partial or total that Christ has done in the Law does not make that Law abolished. For instance, the Temple is gone. We have become His Temple. The veil was rent from top to bottom ( Matthew 27:51) to show that we no longer need a priest to reconcile our sins for us. We all have forgiveness based upon repentance.

    Fulfillment, in full, or in part, of the Law does not abolish it. What do you do with all other Scripture that does not agree with your assessment?

    When Christ rose and spoke in the Synagogue on the Sabbath, He specifically left out the words in Luke 4:18-19 concerning the "Day of vengeance of our God" ( Isaiah 61:1-2) because that day has not come upon us all yet.

    Christ came to fulfill the Law, not abolish it. Has the Law been completely fulfilled? No. We are still under the Law, which

    Paul states "is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" ( Galatians 5:14)

    The "curse" of the Law is a persons' inability to keep it. That "curse" is what Christ has taken on for us. Not the Law. The Law is just and perfect. It is humans that cannot remain righteous; not even a single day of our lives!
  • D.J. - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Kim Burrow, Comments concerning the 7th day, Law, and Grace.

    Concerning the Sabbath:

    The Hebrew definition of the word "week," or "weeks," simply means "sevened."

    The Greek definition is clear, as the word "week" is defined as "Sabbath," i.e. the 7th day (of a seven day period); the day of rest.

    The 7th day was established for ALL of mankind back on the 7th Day of Creation ( Genesis 2:2, 3) and was never abolished.

    ( Mark 2:27-28) "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

    If we believe in the Father and His only begotten Son, then we have Christ in us every day, not just one day per week.

    This new understanding is an enhancement of the 7th day, not the abolishment of it. It was made to last forever. This is a day that God BLESSES and SANCTIFIED! Christ always honored the Sabbath. The Apostles kept the Sabbath; look at Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44, Acts 16:13, etc.

    Pentecost is a holy SABBATH day; i.e. a day of rest.

    The "first day of the week" spoken of in Acts 20:7, concerns the first Sabbath in reckoning the seven Sabbaths until Pentecost. (i.e. the first day of the Sabbath. Week = Sabbath.

    In Acts 17:2 and Acts 18:4, Paul is continually feeding the people Scripture on the SABBATH. Christ never abolished the Sabbath; neither did Paul. God never said anything concerning that fact, and if He wanted that day changed He would have made it abundantly clear.

    To pluck a few verses out of Scripture and declare a law of God to be null and void (especially with so much Scripture speaking contrary to what you are proposing) is playing fast and loose with His words.

    *Look at the book of Enoch; specifically chapter 72 and 82 (column 27) concerning the ancient Enoch Solar priestly Calendar. A 364 day calendar (52 x 7)
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Great comment Kim & very true. While reading the part about the Sabbath, I was reminded of Rev 1:10, when John on the day that he first heard from Jesus, the Alpha & Omega, was the Lord's Day. Interesting, that he didn't call it the Sabbath but referred to it as the accepted term for a separate day to that observed by the Jews. So yet another piece of evidence that the Sabbath was no longer recognized & the Lord's Day was set aside as Sunday & the day for worship.
  • K8mb - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    2nd part reply

    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law ( Gal. 3:13 NASB).

    The apostle Paul said the Law was added only until Christ comes:

    Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressionsuntil the seed should come to whom the promise had been made ( Gal. 3:19 NASB).

    Paul goes on to say the Law was our "tutor to lead us to Christ"; now that we are justified in Christ, we are no longer under the Law:

    But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor ( Gal. 3:23-25 NASB).

    While the moral principles expressed in the Ten Commandments are reaffirmed in the New Testament, the command to observe the Sabbath is the only commandment not repeated. There is no New Testament command for believers to set aside the Sabbath as a day of worship. Exodus 31:13 says the Sabbath was a "sign between God and Israel," not God and the church.

    The first Christians were, of course, Jews, and when Gentiles began to enter the church, some Jewish Christians (Judaizers) tried to force new Gentile believers to follow the Law and observe the Sabbath (among other things). It became such a problem that Paul warned that no believer was to judge another believer with regard to the Sabbath:

    Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ ( Col. 2:16-17 NASB).

    A shadow is only an image cast by an object which represents its form. Paul said the Sabbath was a "mere shadow" that pointed to Christ. Once a person finds Christ, he or she no longer needs to follow the shadow.

    I hope this helps, God bless you.
  • Kim burrow - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Christians have never worshipped on the seventh day. Christians have worshipped on the first day of the week since the church was born on the first day of the week at Pentecost and Peter preached the first sermon on a Sunday. After that first Sunday, those same Christians continued to meet and worship regularly on the first day of the week ( Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Sunday worship can be historically traced in unbroken succession all the way back to the first century to Jesus' disciples in Jerusalem meeting on the first day of the week. For two thousand years, Christians have faithfully followed the New Testament pattern given by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and practiced by the apostles, the first Christians, and the early church.

    Some believe that Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but the church had been worshipping on the first day of the week hundreds of years before Constantine was born and before the Church of Rome ever existed. Constantine only declared officially in the fourth century what the church had been doing since the first century. There was no change in the day of worship for Christians because Christians had never worshipped on the seventh day. Christians had worshipped on the first day of the week since Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.

    Believers are not under the Law. The requirements of the Law were met in Christ ( Matt. 5:17). Believers are released from the Law, believers are dead to the Law, and believers are redeemed from the Law ( Rom. 6:14; 7:6, 9; Gal. 3:13):

    You are not under law but under grace ( Rom. 6:14 NASB).

    But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound ( Rom. 7:6 NASB).

    For apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ( Rom. 7:8b-10 NASB).

    1st reply
  • Diann Rodgers - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Many have said the the end of time is soon. We should live with the Lird God in our lives and not always be thinking about the end is near.

    God should be kept close always.

    We should be praying for those in authority.

    That they keep their feet on the correct path. Need they not be concerned as to their reputation so much as to what Our Lord is telling them to do.

    Keep straight their path as God wishes and the only way to know is through Prayer.
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Page 3.

    So to, our minds have to be 'gathered together' & focused on the 'race that is set before us'. In meditation, one is required to do the opposite, & release the mind from everything & thus allow anything to enter in & either control us or fill us. And most often these thoughts won't be what Christians should be 'meditating' on.

    I've written at length, as I sense your earnestness in your quest, as also my personal identification with you in your struggles. Look to the Lord, wait upon Him, & don't let Him go until you "receive the blessing". He wants to reveal Himself to you & give you the joy of His Salvation: the question is: are you really ready to humble yourself in His Sight, to read & 'meditate' on His Word & wait for His Ministry of conviction - for without conviction there is no salvation.
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Page 2.

    My wife, as many others, have always been in that blessd position of receiving Christ as a child, being baptized, & continuing on strongly in the faith. For some of us, we were allowed to go through the miry clay to then come to the point of conviction & salvation & being set upon that Rock. You need to bring up your life before the Lord & seek that deep conviction of sin by God's Spirit, so that your salvation will be real & only of the Lord; you will never need to "learn about how to return to God", for that conviction is also your confirmation that a divine transaction has taken place, i.e. your sins handed over in return for His forgiveness of your sins & removal of that penalty it deserved.

    You also wrote about not feeling close to God anymore, despite your attempts to 'feel' that intimacy. We have that saying: 'that our faith is not based on feeling but on fact'. In other words, what Christ has done for us & what has taken place in us as a result, is fact-based & not feeling-based. I'm not saying that we can't 'feel' closeness to the Lord, but that acceptance by Him & intimacy is primarily based on what He has done in us. So 'feelings' can change day-by-day depending on our mental, emotional or physical circumstances & this could affect how we 'feel' with God, yet, however we feel in God's Presence, cannot change the fact of God's Love & His Salvation for us. He promises to NEVER leave us or forsake us. I would stay well away from meditation 'to reach your inner self'. The only meditating we can do is to focus our hearts & minds on the Godhead & His Word. Peter (in 1 Pet 1:13) speaks of "girding the loins of your mind", which references those wearing long robes during work, etc., as they would gather that part of the garment that would interfere with the job in hand, or the long road to travel on.

    (onto Page 3.)
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Page 1.

    Carl, you've said some things here that require some further dealing. Specifically, "I have decided to worship and return to God. I don't believe I am worthy. I have been a christian all my life but for the past 15 years or so I have been a non believer." And, "I used to feel emotional and feel the closeness to God. Now I find it difficult to feel."

    My testimony is quite similar to yours, having been brought up in a God-fearing home & going through all the spiritual exercises a child would do. I left home at 17 yrs of age to pursue my career, which took me into a world devoid of a Christian environment & counsel. I caved in to the lusts of the flesh & for identification with my peers; & for all intents & purposes, I was not a Christian, never saved, having just given a mental/verbal assent to the Gospel. However, after almost nine years of wicked living, the Spirit of God met me in my defence quarters & brought me into an extremely deep conviction of my sin - I was literally torn apart because of the gravity of my sin & certainty of a Christless eternity.

    You've said that you've decided to return to God. Was this a mental decision from a sense of being wayward & because of the circumstances you may find yourself in & in the world of turmoil today? You know Carl, if WE decide to follow God or attend to His commands, then that's all we'll do (as the Jews do in their mental affirmation & obedience to God). But if we sense the Spirit's Work in us, then actually a miracle takes place in our lives, & we can't help but weep for our sins & call upon the Saviour for the work of the Cross to be applied to us. That drawing to & convicting of, is all of God & can never be of us. And this is the more pertinent to folk like us, who were either never saved or have come out of a long period of Christ rejection & disobedience.

    (to Page 2.)
  • Sharon - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    I have talked to a lot of people who are saying the same things you have said. The feeling is like God where are you. I've been in Rev. for couple of months now. I don't have all of the understanding but I know God will give it. The Lord spoke to me at one time a long time ago. Said how can you understand the ending if you don't understand the beginning. Because the beginning is the ending. Rev. goes back to Lev. And then to Daniel and Mathew. So it takes a lot of studying. To show yourself approved. And I keep in mind God is always near. I may no understand right now. But I will. Ask Jesus to talk to the Father. Because Jesus is our intersessor. And ask Him to let you feel His presence. But you have to be in His presence also. Anoint your on head. Fast and pray. Fall on your knees.
  • Mishael on Spiritual Warfare Genesis - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Go through every drawer, closet, attic, box, bookcase clothing jewelry, Horoscopes, movies, Sexual themes, EVERYTHING! Anything that could even remotely be an idol Or occult: put them in boxes and pour PAINT all over it and kitty litter. Put it on the curb for pickup.

    I noticed that both of these books ARE ON YOUTUBE. Despite Bennys stage presence that people denounce now; in his earlier days He helped a lot of people get free from demonic persecution, including ME.

    Angels by Charles Capps

    War in the Heavenlies by Benny Hinn (5 hrs Long)

    The other thing: Get more Bible into you. Read New Testament: a Chapter a day.

    You need information about spiritual warfare. The history of it and this present day tools to fight it. Benny takes time to explain what the Hebrew words are, and what they mean.

    For Everybody that is studying Pre-Adamic creation and the Genesis account of Creation; you will want to get pencil and pad ready to get a complete picture of creation with the Prophetic scriptures spoken by Gods Prophets in the Bible.

    It's all there. We just didn't put it together right. I challenge you to listen to and watch this on YouTube.

    It's going stop stop all the arguing. I know I stand convicted about things I said. I'm excited to see what you think.

    I've already looked at these other passages and it's going to take time to relearn what I thought was plain as the nose on my face.
  • Carl - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Hi Lucinda,

    It must be hard on your mother-heart to see your son facing a cancer test. You and he are in my thoughts and prayers; may you feel His nearness as He walks with you. God bless!

    Carl
  • Michael - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Praying for you brother. I can tell you what helped me the most when I, read the book of Proverbs. I hope this helps your brother in Christ.
  • Justin - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Praying For You Brother!
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    You have been through so much, Sakeeya, & you're showing clearly that the volume of your sins are weighing heavily upon you. That can only be by the Spirit of God's Work in your heart as He brings conviction. God desires too that you are totally freed from the presence & power of sin in your life. And I think you know what God requires of you - to repent of all your sins (which means you decide in your heart that you will no longer be a servant to sin & you want to turn your back to it); to call upon the Name of Jesus Christ, God's Son to forgive you (because it is only because His death & resurrection from the dead that God can forgive you); to put your faith in Jesus' sacrificial love for you at the Cross, because it is only by faith that you can be saved & nothing else that you think you can add to; and thank Him for saving you & ask Him to help you in your new life. Spend time in prayer & in the Bible, God's Word - this is for you to get closer to your Heavenly Father & also to resist the Devil when he comes knocking at your heart's door to coax you back into sin.

    Also, find a good Church nearby, if you haven't already. I would suggest a Baptist Church or an evangelical fellowship where the Bible is loved & preached. Talk to the Pastor/Elder about your spiritual condition or your need to be saved & tell him that you want to obey the Lord by being baptized. I think you understand baptism: this is your identification with Jesus in His death & resurrection & new life from Him. Baptism does not save you, Jesus saves & His Spirit gives you a new birth, but baptism is the outward sign to your own heart of what has taken place before God. God bless you Sakeeya, as you look forward & not backwards anymore.
  • Chris - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Tasha, just one more quick word for you. You clearly recognize how far you had gone from God & now you have come back to Him. You will also notice that your enemy, the Devil, will not be far away from you to entice you to the things that you were once addicted to. This & other ways will the Devil use to get you away from God & His Love for you. The best way to defeat the enemy is to resist him by going to prayer immediately & talk to God about what is happening. When you finish talking with God, spend time in the Bible & soak up God's Words for you. I tell you the truth, when I had to deal with people who were being attacked by the enemy, as soon as we prayed, as soon as God's Word was read, the Devil fled - He hates the Word - it is Truth & He is a Liar, the father of lies.

    So, I just share this short word for encouragement to you & to remind you to flee temptations & run into God's Word. Find a good Bible believing, God honouring Fellowship near to you so you may be strengthened in your faith. May He bless you in your life & as you are also then able to help that family who are mourning their loss.
  • Mishael - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    SAKEEYA: it's gonna be scary but you will make it if you hold onto Jesus with all your strength: physical, mental and emotional. Demons don't like to lose one.

    I was an astrologer. I had a supernatural salvation experience. After I received Jesus, I was delivered on the spot, by the Holy Spirit. It was only with His help that I survived. First day I just knew to clear anything that was an idol out of my house. I burned expensive books; drugs, alcohol, clothing, lots more. All that was in the house was me and a 15lb KJ Bible. You have to read your Bible: it will save your life. If demons threaten you, scare you, lie to you, choke you, hold your eyelids down..do not freak out. Stay calm and plead the blood of Jesus: 'I am covered with the Blood of Jesus Christ of Nazareth'. Sex demons will frighten you. They're invisible but you know they're in the house.

    I almost died with pneumonia because I had quit sleeping for weeks. The Holy Spirit gave me strength to get out of bed and go buy 2 books: one on angels and one on demons. I was able to sleep that night. You gotta fight hell with the WORD OF GOD. Plead the BLOOD!

    Go underline in your Bible, Matthew 12:44

    It will get you through this. Go to church no matter how alien you feel. That's a demon too. You belong to God and they hate Gods people. Your old friends will come by to take you out sinning. Invite them to go to church with you. Ask the Holy Spirit to bring New Christian friends into your life. He'll do it too. Now: ask God to set Angels on all 4 corners of your house to keep the demons out. Start reading a whole Book of the New Testament in your Bible every day. Demons don't want you to do that. They'll make the phone ring, bad news friends come over. You have to be strong for Jesus and tell them you got saved. You have to let them go till you get stronger in Jesus. Give all that bad stuff you did and receive Jesus's strength to RESIST the devil. He must flee!! PRAY out the hurts of your heart.
  • Bro. Don - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Tasha, Be encouraged. Nothing feels better than knowing you're a daughter of the King of Kings and that you are doing what is pleasing in His sight. God bless you.
  • Bro. Don - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Sakeeya, don't give up on Him and He won't give up on you. God bless you.
  • Mishael on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    What is the Gospel?
  • Kim Burrow - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    It says in the Bible that we will suffer sometimes just like Jesus did. It is in these times we are to keep our faith and stay strong and trust the Lord. What profit is it when we trust him when things are going good? This is the time you all need to stay strong in God and in His word. Encourage your family member, God has a plan for their life. Even though I know it must be hard don't grow weary and faint. I pray for your strength, for peace and the courage to get through this season of your life. God will never forsake us or leave us. Keep trusting in Him, ask for guidance. God bless you all and keep the faith and give up.
  • DaLanie - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Thanks, Chris. I will try to do the best I can in keeping strong faith in God and what he is working on doing. And as well as his plans. But sometimes I feel that it just isn't fair sometimes. My great-grandma when she was alive swore up and down that my family was cursed. And I am okay telling anyone that sometimes I feel that she was right. She died in 2012 then a year and one day later my mother died. And then three years and 27 days later my great-grandpa passed away. And then add on top of that what my family is dealing with the family members of mine. It is hard sometimes but I love God, I still remember the day I got saved and baptized, something that I will never forget. But Thank You so much for all of your help I appreciate it.

    As well as anyone else that commented or gave me advice thank you so much and I appreciate all of you that went out of your day to help me.

    DaLanie
  • DaLanie - In Reply on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    Thank you.
  • Mishael ON God39s Love on Revelation 7:9 - 3 years ago
    CARLOS:

    God (The LET US) existed before Creation. He's the Alpha and the Omega.

    Original language in Genesis, says: in Beginning. Not in the beginning.

    He created TIME first. Everything on earth and in the universe, was going to be regulated on time and seasons.

    Everything scientist seek to explain: Time, Force. Action, Matter; is explained in Genesis 1:1. One verse. What a mighty God we serve.

    Yes he sees mankind all through history (HIS STORY). But he gave us free will.

    After Satan was thrown to earth by Michael the Archangel, he was here also with his will. I call him the I will I will I will mess up Gods plans. There's a scripture that says God is at work within our will to help us align our will with His , for our life. I need a lot of that, so I ask for it.

    So you can see that we are the owner operators of our will. Yes God sees what we may choose. If we're completely closed off to the Holy Spirit, we make huge mistakes at times. Sometimes we miss out on Gods best for us because we are frequently boneheads about choices. We spend the rest of our lives lamenting that we wish we had not chosen that disaster.

    I absolutely love God for that. He had my devotion at hello, Yom Kippur 1985. I had this vision one time of flying with the clouds, and I'd inhale this air that was so Good. Couldn't inhale enough. The air of heaven is faith. We have so much to look forward to. All the Lord needs is a open heart that wants to be filled with love. God is Love.

    He's not mean. His judgments are righteous. Instead of cross judging Him. We should wonder why? He will show us the answer. If we skim like ice skaters through the Bible, we miss important thought.

    We often close our eyes to things we don't want to see. If we miss the mark.. it's sin.

    That's why Jesus was willing to pay full price. It was decided before Time started ticking on earth. Open your hearts, not your minds.


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