Revelation Chapter 21 Discussion

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  • LG Spears
    In v.16 it says the lg., breadth & ht. of heaven are =. Is the ht. a mistake? In v.17 it says the wall is 144 cubits, is this thick. or ht or both since a wall has both & I suppose we assume it goes around heaven. Is 12,000 fur. the total dist. around the wall; if so, then heaven has about 141,000 sq. mi. of land which is about 1/2 the size of Texas & if 1/2 the land is used for housing & everyone in heaven lived in 2000 sq.ft. houses/ 5 persons per house on lots of 3,000 sq.f.t each, then heaven could house about 33,000,000 people. This would free up the remaining 1/2 of land for churches, golf courses, beaches, parks, nature trails & shopping malls--almost forgot ,& football stadiums.
  • Chris
    It's always an interesting exercise when considering future events & places & the one you are sharing is one of them.

    Firstly, the New Jerusalem will be on the New Earth, i.e. not in Heaven. With the dimensions given of the city, it appears to sit in a cube, though one can rightly assume that the height of it probably means to the point where the clouds/atmosphere ends. The walls at 144 cubits (1 cubit = 1.5 ft) makes them 216 ft (again, probably height since the necessity for walls of that thickness seem unnecessary). Your further details of population density was interesting: I had never considered this to that extent. Though, our whole being (i.e. as those outfitted for Heavenly life) & therefore the necessity for shopping malls, beaches, etc. seem unnatural since we will be in the presence of Almighty God (v3), enjoying Him & His Son in continual praise & worship & thus we would pursue a lifestyle akin to what had in Heaven.

    What did pique my interest was vv 26,27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." I just can't work out why the reference to sinners in a New Earth since all evil has been locked away by this time. Or, is it just to show the purity & holiness of the Earth & Jerusalem, that nothing evil could ever hope to come into it (i.e. if evil existed). And who are the nations? Any thoughts?
  • LGSpears
    I greatly appreciate the thoughtful reply by Chris regarding the size of our New Heaven. I have looked more carefully at Revelation 21: vs 12, 16 & 17 & conclude the following: Vs. 12 plainly states, "And (the new heaven) had a wall GREAT and HIGH ----"; Vs. 16 last part says "The Length and the Breadth AND the Height of it are Equal;" then going to the first part it says "And the city lieth foursquare and thus the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, 12,000 furlongs (one furlong = 582 ft.).

    SO, Vs. 12 says the New Heaven would have both a great & high wall + Vs. 16 says the lg., breadth (width) & ht. of the walls are equal. These two statements rule out using the 144 cubit (210 ft.) measure for the height of the wall but instead limit it to the thickness; which does make sense because during this time period city walls where described by their heigth & thickness + their composition (for this wall it is jasper).

    Now one has to both read & think carefully. The first of Vs. 16 says the city is foursquare ( laid out in a square) with length = breadth/width and he measured the city with a reed and it was 12,000 furlongs. Now the question here is, what is 12,000 furlongs describing? One missing piece of info now is the perimeter around the city, which is provided by the stated 12,000 furlong measurement. Since the city is a square each wall must be 3,000 furlongs in lg. Then from the last portion of Vs. 16, we can conclude that since the lg., breadth and ht. are equal, that the ht. of the walls are also 3,000 furlongs or 1,746,000 feet or 331 miles.

    The above generates 2 interesting questions about the walls. The obvious first question is, why are the walls so high? How can a wall be that high and only 210 ft. thick, especially when you consider that it is made mainly of "jasper"(jasper is a brittle stone used for decrative objects).

    The above indicates that heaven should cover about 141,000 sq. miles or about 1/2 of Texas.
  • Chris
    LGSpears, as with you, I find this subject fascinating & even though measurements are given in Revelation 21, we have to assume that with our limited knowledge with how measurements were actually derived in those days, some errors will be there. For example, 1 (US) Furlong = 660 ft. So using 582 ft as you have done, isn't a great deviation from whatever was originally considered, however it does remind us that are musings over these facts can only at best be speculative, even to the actual construction dimensions of the city.

    However, I do see the measurements given are for the New Jerusalem & not the New Heaven. You might be seeing this as one & the same but I understand that the "first heaven & the first earth" as applying to the present earth & sky (which may include objects found in inner or deep space), & not to the place of God's Abode.

    Re: the dimensions of the city. Agreed, that length, breadth & height are equal, but I seem to read in v 16, that only measurement of one of the equal sides was taken (i.e. 12,000 furlongs = 1,500 miles). If this is the case, then we have 144,000 sq furlongs = 18,000 sq miles of land area & not including the 1,500 miles of vertical measurement of one side. Or is this a misunderstanding on my part? I won't even try to contemplate what the wall would appear like as a result!

    And another interesting feature in all this, which you no doubt would have observed, is the use of the figure '12' as the cardinal number seen in Revelation (e.g. 7:4-8; 12:1; 14:1,3; 21; 22:2) as well as its appearance in other Scriptures (e.g. 12 disciples, etc.). How does this all figure out in God's Design & Plan?
  • Charley
    judas iscariot went to hell read your bible, jesus called him a devil yet he performed

    many miracles preached the gospel, yet went to hell. Acts 1-18,Luke 6-16,John 6-70
  • Andrew Anthony for verse 8
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. I believe we all lie and some of us fall under the other things listed. So, because we all lie, doesn't that mean we are all going to experience the first or second death?
  • D W L
    (I believe we all lie and some of us fall under the other things listed. So, because we all lie, doesn't that mean we are all going to experience the first or second death?)

    So that says you don't believe! No one has authority to take from or add to --

    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  • Chris
    DWL, Revelation 21:8 does indeed speak of such sinners being deserving of the second death. But these are not Christians, washed in Christ's Blood & forgiven from the old carnal life of sin & disobedience, but speaks of those who are without Christ & have lived carelessly given wholly over to a life of unabated sin.

    Does this new position we have in Christ give us licence to behave as those in verse 8? Romans 6:1,2: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" It is impossible for a Spirit-filled person to pursue such a lifestyle, or else if he so chooses to do, he would need to examine him/herself & get back to the foot of the Cross. And yes, it is possible (indeed, probable), that a Christian will trip up & commit sin, as we still exist in this body of sin & thus continue to be an open gateway for Satan to tempt us. But our response & recourse is instantaneous & sure, as we seek forgiveness & resolve in His Strength to avoid sin's pull & our grieving the Lord.
  • Bendito Palavra
    In Romans chapters 5 and 6, 1st Corinthians 15 and then in 2nd Corinthians chapter 5, among other passages, we can see that our old sinful nature will be done away with and that we will fully experience our new nature as the born again in Jesus Christ. This new nature (Christ in us) is sinless, free of corruption. We being crucified with Christ have all our sins forgiven, nailed to the cross. Romans chapters 7 and 8 detail the struggle between our old nature and our new nature; we can and still do commit sin on occasion. The victory is in Christ Jesus. The second death has power over those who have rejected Jesus Christ and remain in their unforgiven sins.
  • I can't wait to be in this paradise. I can't imagine the love, the powerful bonds. Words probably can't adequately describe it.
    Is the earth round? Is it a sphere? Is it flat? bible verses to help me understand.
  • Phillip Gallegos
    Isaiah 40:22 View whole chapter See verse in context
    It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
  • Obbie Beal
    After reading the above I am reminded of my childhood days when their was not a care in the world for me to worry over, just enjoy life from GOD. So as it relate to 21 above I know everything will be NEW at that TIME, so I Can Only Image What that Day /Time Will Be Like. I enjoy long walks in the country here on earth and being amazed by GOD creation... birds soaring or singing, ants preparing for winter, trees dancing with the wind, and later favorite deserts, so so I Can Only Image What that Day /Time Will Be Like. Never held Gold here on earth and that is o.k. but on that day /Time above......
  • Bob Clark
    Revelation 21:24 is bothersome to me as it refers to the "kings of the earth bringing glory and honor into it". Why would the kings of the earth be exalted above anyone else? It's not a little disturbing.
  • D W L
    Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit ALL things and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. When we inherit ALL things we will ALL be Kings and Priest unto God.
  • Albert
    It shouldn't be bothersome to anyone, because the kings' of the earth is referring to the twelve apostles who are ruling in God's Kingdom, on earth. This verse is in reference to, AFTER Christ has returned and set up the Kingdom of God, on earth. The apostles will be the kings of the earth, and Christ will be, King of kings. It makes perfect sense.
  • Bob Clark
    I got to thinking after my initial reply. Judas Iscariot was one of the apostles and he will be exalted? The more I learn the more confusing it becomes.
  • Bob Clark
    Albert, you don't know how much I appreciate you. That's a load off. It took me at least a decade to get my mind around a "chosen people". And now I have to discern between "the children of Israel" and "those of the synagogue of Satan". The Bible says we will know them by their fruits so that is the discernment tool I am using. Thanks, brother.
  • Ann
    Bob Clark, Judas Iscariot was never exalted, he betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ our savior. He went to his own place, meaning hell. If the KJV bible scriptures are confusing to you, ask God to give you understanding and knowledge of the scriptures, he will.
    I'll have to. I'm getting conflicting answers on here.
  • Ann
    Robert Clark, Acts chapter 1: Verse 15, Peter is speaking to the disciples, and they all begin to pray and ask the Lord to choose between Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias. The Lord chose Matthias to take the place Judas Iscariot. Also, learn Psalms 119:verse 18, I say this each day before reading my KJV Bible. You will be amazed at how the Lord will open your eyes to understand scripture.
  • Dennis
    New heaven and new earth. New heaven will be like description in latter part of the chapter. New earth will not have Sun or ocean. At least that's what appears to be. No need for the sun for the Son will be all the light we need. No need for the sea or ocean for there will be no refuse or waste. Sea and sun will have served their purpose.
  • Preach
    Sorrows,conflicting passions, temptations, troubles, changes, and alarms from whatever can divide or interrupt the communion of saints will be banished from His people. The new heaven, and new earth: the new Jerusalem where God dwells will be our new home.God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, as a pledge for the full performance. Perfect and direct communion with Father and Son.
  • Hazel Carty
    The light of the world is Jesus Chris AMEN and amen to the Lamb
  • Ed
    Compare Revelation 21:1 with Micah 7:19. In Micah 7:19, all sins will be cast into the depths of the sea. In Revelation 21:1, there will be no more sea. No more sea, no more sins. Thank you Lord Jesus.
  • Margaret
    Revelation 21: 1 the fire that consumes the wick is the same fire that purifies the earth. The New Jerusalem is a real prepared place for a prepared people. We have to study the Bible with prayer and a open he heart to receive what GOd is saying to us. The Bible will interpret itself if we just study it not just read it. Who better to say what it means that the person who spoke it. Be ready. He comes
  • Ruth
    I will continue striving to reside in that city, leaving all the earthly worries behind
  • Bruce
    It's a Metaphor. Like a Bottomless Cup of Coffee. Which Way does a Flat Earth spin? Have you Seen The Corners? Why Do The Buildings Slowly Sink into The Ocean as You Drive away in a Boat? Have You Seen The Other side of The World? Anyone Live there? Does The Water flow Off The Edge or Leak Through The Bottom. How Thick is this Earth? How Wide? How Long? How do Volcanos Work? Where's The Wind Go
  • Revelation 22:18,19
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
  • JP
    Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

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