Revelation Chapter 21 Discussion



 
  • Brian R. on Revelation 21
    (Revelation 7:14-15) The first resurrection:

    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

    (Revelation 21:3-7) The second resurrection:

    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of Godiswith men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them,and betheir God.

    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    "One of Us" comes full circle:

    Genesis1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

    Genesis 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us...
  • Dgjot on Revelation 21
    Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    Does that verse apply to the unsaved exclusively, or does it apply to the "saved" (but somewhat backslidden)?

    I'm thoroughly confused. For years I believed in "once-saved-always-saved" but I don't any more. Neither do I believe that if someone has prayed the "sinners prayer" once, that they are always saved- either.

    The verse says the fearful...unbelieving...murderers... shall have their share in the Lake of Fire.

    I've never taken a life (murdered) but often I've wished death on the wicked. So much so that for weeks I felt this heaviness weighing on me. It would not go away. I was terrified. My waking thoughts were of damnable things. I asked God every day, "What is this? Why do I feel this doom and gloom?"

    God gave me an answer.> In having those wicked thoughts, I caused the Holy Spirit to grieve.

    I told a friend of mine what I was feeling and she told me to read Romans 8:1

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    I've read that verse many times. I was a C.I.N.O. (Christian-in-name-only) When I read my Bible, I only read the "feel good" verses. I thought that no matter what I did, Jesus had me covered. Why would Jesus keep sticking up for a habitual sinner like me?

    Most of my sins are in my head: I think of doing things that I would never actually do in real life. But, you can't fool the Holy Spirit of God.

    Is it too late for me? Am I doomed?
  • Jeanie - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Only the wicked and unrighteous will be in the fire. You are saved if you obey all 10 commandments and believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. Look in revelation 14: 12. Paul had referred to christions in the churches he wrote to as saints.

    Yes if someone was save they can fall if not repent they are not saved. We must repent to the Lord. Only the lord knows what is in people's hearts. Look at 1 samual 16:7.

    I hope this helps my friend. God bless.
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    @Jeanie, Thank You.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Hi Dgjot.

    Something went terribly wrong with the links i attempted to post.

    Read Romans 7:23 on through Romans 8:13. with verses 11 thru 13 being the end result.

    " But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.

    Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

    For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

    We all have an inward battle but that life giving spirit conducts our walk. You may grieve the spirit but our great shepherd will never leave us.

    Hebrews 10:14. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

    God bless.
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    @S Spencer

    Thanks again.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Hi Dgjot.

    As promised I would like to elaborate a little further on your great questions.

    I think we covered your 1st question, "Does that verse apply to the unsaved exclusively, or does it apply to the "saved" (but somewhat backslidden)?

    You said you have wished terrible things on wicked people and Quoted I felt this heaviness weighing on me. It would not go away. I was terrified. My waking thoughts were of damnable things. I asked God every day, "What is this? Why do I feel this doom and gloom?" You seem to have a heavy heart behind those thoughts. This sounds like everyday struggle in a Christians life providing he or she is a believer regardless of the severity of the sin. Concerning the struggle it sounds like Paul in Romans 7:23-25. Link

    You stated "Why would Jesus keep sticking up for a habitual sinner like me?" I don't know your spiritual condition but from what you have shared I supposed the habitual sin is the damnable thoughts you mentioned earlier.

    Dgjot a habitual sinner in my opinion was never a saved person. But I'm not sure you fall in that category.

    You mentioned a friend of yours told you to read Romans 8:1. And you read that verse many times. to put it into context for your situation you may have to take it from Romans 7:23-25. thru Romans 8:11.

    Link

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, ( who walk NOT after the flesh,) but after the Spirit." This is done by the spirit.

    Link

    Link

    Link

    By the death and resurrection of Christ we wasn't just justified we were sanctified and being sanctified and some day be Glorified.

    Revelation 21:8 has nothing to do with a believer loosing his salvation.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Hi Dgjot.

    I like to add to my reply being I don't think I covered all your concerns.

    I didn't thoroughly read your post and it deserves a lot more than I given it.

    My apologies.

    I'm attempting to refresh your Post so some can go into greater debt.

    I f not I will attempt to do so once I get home from work in a few hours

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Hi Dgjot.

    Let's consider verse 7 this is one Group that did accept Christ.

    Revelation 21:7.

    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    These in Revelation 21:8 never accepted Christ

    Revelation 21:8.

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Here's a parallel.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: BUT YE ARE WASHED, BUT YE ARE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, "AND BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD."
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Thank You, S Spencer.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Dgjot, ask the Spirit to give you spiritual eyes instead of natural eyes.

    John 6:63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing, THE WORDS (Christ is the WORD) that I speak unto you, they (the words, Christ) are SPIRIT, and they (the words, Christ) are LIFE.

    ...the fearful...unbelieving...murderers (if you hate your brother, you are a murderer (1 John 3:15)....

    Shall have their part in the lake of fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

    Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

    Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....(living lake of fire) you are IN IT NOW.

    Isaiah 10:16 ...and under his glory (you are the glory of God) he shall kindle a BURNING like the burning of a FIRE (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST).

    Everyone is going to be judged in the WORDS ( in Christ, in the Fire (lake of)

    The fire burns the trash and purifies you.

    The fire is GOOD and necessary.

    The fearful no longer fear, the unbelieving, BELIEVE, you love you enemies.

    Don't call GOOD (the lake of fire), EVIL.
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    @Earl,

    Thank You.

  • [Comment Removed]
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Dgjot; You are HIS POSSESSION, He is not going to FAIL to bring you to the FULLNESS of HIMSELF.

    He does't consider OUR worthiness; he does all this for us, because of who HE IS.

    He is faithful, not us.

    Be steadfast in this TRUTH.

    You don't have to do anything; whatever is needed in your life to bring you to the likeness of himself, he WILL CAUSE you to DO IT.

    Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure.

    Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my Spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

    Rest in this TRUTH and life becomes really easy (even when it is hard).
  • Dianne - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Dgot Thinking negative or evil thoughts is one thing carrying it out is a whole different ball game, in 1 Corinthians 13:5 its says the love of God thinketh no evil. There is nobody that's got that mastered so don't feel like your alone, also nobody walks perfectly by the spirit 24-7. We do the best and put on Gods word in your mind believe and listen to his spirit then let go and let God. In 1 John 3: 19-21 God knows your heart, and he also knows we don't think correctly 24-7 that's why we have saviour. God wants to deliver us more than we want to accept it. Remember its all grace not works. God Bless
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Thanks Dianne. I wondered if I was the only one who ever went through this kind of thing.

    The question still is: have I committed Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by grieving the Holy Spirit?

    I'm terrified.
  • Dianne - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Dgjot I don't believe your fear is Godly, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the Spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. The word fear is the word deilia which means timidity, we live in the age of grace that's not license to sin, in contrast in Hebrews 4: 16 Let us therefore come boldly or fearlessly no timidity unto the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. A great record of Gods love displayed through jesus christ in luke 5:4 Jesus Christ says to simon peter launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a draught. Now Simon being the fishing professional said Master we have toiled all night and taken nothing but at thy word I'll let down the net. Wait a second Didn't Jesus Christ say let down the nets plural, so did Simon do what he was told nope and yet they were blessed with fish verses 6-8 go tons of fish. When Simon saw it he fell down at Jesus knees and said depart from me for I am a sinful man lord, look how bad this guy felt.Whats the savior do your right guy your an idiot and I don't want to have nothing to do with you. Quite the opposite Never mentions the error or sin and says fear [the word fear is phobeo to cause to terrify] not from henceforth thou shalt catch men and they still got the fish. It's a matter of where's your heart not where's head the disciples questioned him all the time that doesn't make them evil. All the actions that Jesus Christ did were a blessing and it scared the ---- out of peter.If you think about we probably would have done the same thing. Just some stuff to consider. God Bless
  • Mishael - in Reply on Revelation 21
    It happens. God knows you sorrow in your heart. Read Psalm 51.

    And then read 1 John 1:9. Bend your knee and pray what that chapter is saying...from your heart.

    You're not the only one who this has happened to.

    Main thing to follow, is Jesus; His Bible. Get more and more of that in you. Be selective of things we all watch on media.

    I've had 35 years to fall in love with the Holy Spirit. He's God; 3rd person of the Godhead. Had a part in creation of this world we live in. Every relationship is a process of getting to know each other. Not all is smooth sailing at first.

    Read John chapters 14-17 and learn about the Comforter. Jesus went to the Cross to bring the Holy Spirit to us. The be inside. Reverence Him.
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    @Mishael,

    Again, Thank You.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Blasphemy would be as when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, and all the people said he did that by the power of satan.

    Or someone is healed at church and they say the same thing. Or someone speaks in tongues during praise, worship or corporate prayer.

    I choose not to judge these things. We are to exercise righteous judgment. I had to learn not to judge. Whatever the Holy Spirit does is always to glorify Jesus.

    You can Google

    "grieve or quench the Holy Spirit, teaching"

    And read the commentaries on it.

    It's actually very serious and we all should look that up.
  • Dgjot - in Reply on Revelation 21
    @Mishael,



    Thank You. I will look that up.
  • Cliff on Revelation 21
    Gas pipeline fire boils underwater in the Gulf of Mexico | USA TODAY

    Me doth suspect the lake of fire mockith us.
  • OSEAS - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Yes, Cliff, you are right, for the material things are figure of spiritual things, so you suspect the lake of fire mockith us makes sense.

    The heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same Word - the Word is GOD - are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day(the Lord's Day) of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    Remember: Isaiah prophesied: 33:v.10-14

    10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.

    11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

    12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the FIRE.

    13 Hear, ye that are far off- the Gentiles peoples-, what I have done; and, ye that are near -the Jewish people-people of Israel- , acknowledge my might.

    14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring FIRE? who among us shall dwell with EVERLASTING BURNINGS?

    .
  • Queen E Williams on Revelation 21
    He is the Beginning and the End, From Genesis to Revelation...He is God All by himself.But Jesus doesn't know when He will be sent back to Earth to Sound the trumpet, So I ask myself When does He be come the Bridegroom? Is it God the Father that fight in the Battle of Armageddon and Cast Satan into the Lake of Fire? Jesus taught us to Pray, "OUR FATHER, WHICH ART IN HEAVEN"?
  • Ronald L Whittemore - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Queen E Williams

    Everything that the Son of God is, was, and will be was before this world was. So, Jesus was and is the bridegroom, but the bride has not been made ready as of yet. In Hebrew weddings the father who sets the day, he will not tell the son until the day the son will return, so everyone had to be ready to go at any minute. Jesus rode into Jerusalem first on a donkey colt. Revealing the King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation. Long ago if a king came on a donkey he was coming in peace.

    When Jesus returns, He will be riding a white horse of war (Revelation 19:11-16). Jesus will reign above all until the last enemy which is death shall be destroyed. Jesus fights that battle and the beast and false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Satan was locked in the bottomless pit for 1000 years. It does not say who casts Satan into the lake of fire, maybe Jesus since His sacrifice was what defeated him and saved us.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Rev Sebastian Little on Revelation 21
    Did you know that Jesus personally declared he is God?

    Revelation 21: 5-7

    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    Here, resurrected Jesus is the "mighty God", is the "everlasting Father", and God enough to make Genesis 3:22 proud.

    Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Best of health and Spirit to those reading this today.

    God Bless all.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesus is "The Word" sent from God:

    John 12:49

    "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."

    John 12:50

    "And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

    God Bless
  • Rev Sebastian Little - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Ron,

    At Revelation 21's point, it's post seventh trumpet, so when is comes to God and Jesus, the two have become virtually interchangeable. Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the "Alpha and Omega" in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; and in 22:13, where Jesus identifies himself as "the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" in red words.

    There's more:

    Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".

    Isaiah 48:12 "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last"

    Jesus is the Word, a prime mover, who speaks in unison with the Great God Almighty.

    John 10:30 sums it up.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Revelation 21
    John 1:1

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    John 1:3

    "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    God made his son Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 17:5

    "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

    This is my Son -hear ye Him.

    2 Peter 1:17

    "For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    Jesus Christ was made by God and God was pleased with his son.

    John 14:13

    "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

    Jesus Christ is the WORD and the Word is God.

    Jesus and his Father God are One.

    God Bless
  • Mark E Stewart on Revelation 21:3
    I was just wondering on the comment of Bob Hilt. Correct me if Im wrong but it sounds a lot like your saying w theres no rapture before the last trump at the end of the tribulation. If so I dont agree and most of the Bible references you gave say that as well. If you read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 there is a Trump but no number is given and it not only says the dead in Christ but also those who remain. It is only after that when the Antichrist revels himself. The dead at the end of the tribulation will rise they are the only ones that were saved during this event then Christ returns and sets foot on the Mount of Olives and will rule the Earth for a Thousand yrs. This is when the Earth will be restored Men will live longer and everyone and everything will prosper. This is my understanding and I stand by it thru KJV teaching. I have the original writings of Greek and Hebrew and as much as I have to compare KJV with them this is true and correct as best I know at present. Christ returns for the Saved Dead and the Saved Alive then we all return to Heaven, The Antichrist is reveled then the 7 yrs tribulation then Christ returns to Earth and rules a Thousand yrs then God Completely Restores Earth and a New Heaven and we Worship Him Forever n Ever Amen.


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