Revelation Chapter 21 Discussion Page 3

  • S Spencer - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Hi Harold, No one knows his position, but if that's the case his living in sin, however show him in the scripture. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
  • Cheryl on Revelation 21
    Revelation 21 verse 1 a new heaven and earth , why if everyone is suppose to be spiritual beings no body and physical needed is there a new earth what happen to everyone being caught up in the Rapture and taken to heaven , then it said only the 144,000 are going to heaven explain
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 21
    God's re-creation of a new Heaven (may also refer to the sky/universe) & a new Earth, is the final great Act of God to remove the stain & stench of sin from the Earth. Satan, his demons & all who followed him have been cast into the eternal Lake of Fire (chapter 20), so now this new Earth will be for all the righteous ones to live on, with God Himself reigning with them.

    It appears that with the creation of the New Jerusalem, which comes down & is established on this new revamped Earth, that there will be no other countries or cities, as all of God's people will be eternally with the Father & His Son in this new City. Those who have been raptured, or had died in Christ earlier, along with the Old Testament saints & martyrs, will have 'physical' bodies so fashioned, that we will be able to live in Heaven or on Earth. That is why the "dead in Christ will rise first" at the coming of the Lord ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16), that their reconstituted bodies, with those living, will be physically with the Lord & not just 'spirits in Heaven'.

    The 144,000 that you read about in Revelation chapters 7 & 14, apply to the 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. We are not told how these will be known & selected (except it's stated that they are virgins ( Revelation 14:4), seeing that present day Israel is largely of mixed blood. Yet aside from these, there will still be the number of redeemed Gentiles ( Revelation 7:9) who will, together with all the other inhabitants of Heaven, worship the Lord into Eternity.
  • Cher - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Thanks for clarifying this chapter and it has surely given me great understanding of the coming end of days.
  • Bruce on Revelation 21
    CH 21 v 8. Who is the fearful & unbelieving. ??
  • People in Church MAKE it HAPPEN on Revelation 21
    The Sabbath is a bone of contention in here. Sorry to say so. I have not found a scripture that says Thou Shat Go to Church on Saturday; Friday, Sunday or any other day.

    It DOES say to not forsake assembling together.

    Church is whatever day your Church chooses to come together corporately.

    Purpose: praise and worship, tithes or offerings to the Lord. Prayer for the sick to be healed. Hearing the message. Invitation to be born again.

    Personally for me, I think children 6 and up should sit with parents. Children see, they do. Jesus said: suffer the children to come to ME. Show what you believe. Give them a dollar to put in the offering basket.

    There should be announcements In the bulletin so church members can see who needs home visits. Matthew 26. Preach that.

    I realize that some churches operate on rituals, traditions, "that's how it's always been done", etc.

    It's JESUS'S CHURCH. I do not perceive from Him: stern, inflexible or too modern. I think coffee, donuts and chat, belongs after church is dismissed. Let all things be in an orderly fashion.

    We should be learning WHO the Holy Spirit is; What is the 5 Fold Ministry Gifts to the Church; the Gifts of the Holy Spirit & how they are received and how they operate.

    Lastly. Teach WHO the Body of Christ is.

    People need to hear this taught often. See: most people do not even know what it is.

    Wednesday Intercessory Prayer meetings are for learning the real Meat: how to pray for souls to be saved and set free from the devil. Teach Spiritual Warfare.

    Ignorance is not blissful. Ignorance allows demons to do their dirty work and kidnap your kids, your finances, your sense of peace and joy. Teach people how to live in the Power and Freedom that is in Christ.

    If your church does NONE of those things, find one who does. Listen to church on FM Radio when you wash dishes.

    Stuff Bible in=and when you get squished, it just flows out like a stream of life.

  • Bruce on Revelation 21
    CH 21 v8. Don't understand the types of people to not enter Heaven.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Revelation 21:8 gives a list of those that not only not enter Heaven, but are ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire where Satan, the Beast & False Prophet are also cast into, in that final day of dealing with the sin problem.

    I see that list as revealing the whole spectrum of sins: those without faith in God through His Son, those that partook of abominable things or did abominable things in God's Sight, idol worshippers, those practising in witchcraft & clairvoyants, & those given to lies & deception. So even if we don't see things like drunkenness, drug use, rape, child molestation, etc. in that list, I see that these are also covered under what God sees as abominable behaviour.

    And all these will be judged for their sinful lives & the saddest thing is that they will suffer the same fate as those who never did any good, but only evil, as Satan & his cohorts did. Which speaks to me that in spite of all the good that man can do for others, still if there is unconfessed & unforgiven sin in his life, his pitiful end is certain.
  • Efficient on Revelation 21:7
    Who was Philip.
  • William Joseph Byers on Revelation 21:4
    I don't want to upset any of you but from what I am reading in the comments alot of you are not getting it yet. I want to help Because I want very few tears to be streaming from my eyes that the lord will wipe away. Let me start with the judgement day. That great and terrible day! We all will be standing in like a court room but serprated, Goats from the sheep. You know your standing infront of the judge/God. You know what you did in your life. Youll see everyone you could have lead to the lord, but for some selfish reason like embarrassment or something you didnt, You failed to take your children to church, or just something like you didnt have the time. Well your standing there in the sheep side, the side that is going to heavan. You look over to your child or kids as you both are crying leaning forward crying for each other. Why daddy, whay mommy didnt you help me get to heaven??? as the tears fall from your eyes. This would be a very sickening time. You see your child condemned to hell forever and as you see this your enduring the most unimaginable. But its to late to do anything. I cant imagine this happening to anyone, its way to horrible. Dont be afaid to speak up in a crowd. Dont stop trying, On that great and terrible day you will see your loved ones in heavin rejoicing with you forever and ever. Take your friends, brothers, sisters, strangers and children with you to be with Jesus Christ forever and ever amen.
  • Question on Revelation 21:4
    What verses in the bible refers to, "The Bear will conquer the Eagle:

    and the "Eagle will fall from within"
  • Danette on Revelation 21:4
    What does it means if someone sent you this verse revelation 21,3,4 . Someone that had treated you very badly
  • Mishael - in Reply on Revelation 21:4
    Likely the Accuser of the Brethren sent that message. Demons can oppress people if they listen, get angry and react hastily.

    Believe what theBible says about you. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand. He will comfort you; but sometimes he convicts us too, about things we do. Listen to that calm Voice and not that voice that confuses or condemns.

    You may even ask the Holy Spirit to give you the gift of discerning spirits.

    If you forgive him, you release The Lord to go to work on him. That's how it works.

    You can even ask the Lord to bring new (Christian) friends into your life. He did it for me.

    Go read Matthew 5:11-12
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 21:4
    I would assume that person don't believe that you don't believe in that verse. And wants you to think about what it means.
  • The old thing will past away and everything will become new. Our lord will receive his children and we will be in heaven with the lord for ever. No more crying ,sorrow no more anything that will hurt you. Nothing but joy and happiness and peace and the lord that will flow continuously to god people. Jim on revelation21
  • Daughter of Christ on Revelation 21
    I definetly want to go to heaven. We see here that the twelve apostles of the lamb each have there own stones. In a earlier chapter t talks abut how WE will get our own stones that will have our new names on it... I wonder what my new name is!!!
  • Will - in Reply on Revelation 21
    If you are Israel. Repent and

    Keep the Commandments of God
  • William hayes on Revelation 21
    KJV book genesis 1;27 says god created man did not say Adam
  • Tessie Miller - in Reply on Revelation 21
    God Calls the man He created "Adam" in the second chapter and states that he should not be alone.

    Genesis 2 : 18 - 20

    18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

    19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
  • Meredith on Revelation 21
    Freddie, He is calling His people to prayer and repentance. Troubling times serve us by bolstering our faith and bringing about our total dependence upon Him.
  • Bettie Blossom on Revelation 21
    How do you recognize if a person is a Prophet or NOT in these last days and times?
  • T. Levis - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Mathew 7:15-23
  • Naya on Revelation 21
    It is very clear that Revelation 21 takes place after Jesus' 1,000 year reign on earth with man.

    Revelation 21 is the Father God bringing the New Jerusalem from heaven to place it on earth.

    At this time there will be nothing left but spirit beings. Those who were tossed in the lake of fire, and those found worthy to dwell in the Kingdom.

    Every single event regarding humans will take place on earth. When the Great Tribulation starts, we will be on earth. The only place of safety will be The Wilderness, which the Lord will prepare for those found worthy.

    Tribulation will be 3 and a half years. Matthew 24:29 immediately after the tribulation is when the Lord will return to gather his people.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Part 2:

    The Jews will be kept safe from harm during the last 3-1/2 years of the Tribulation Period, known as The Great Tribulation. They are told that when they see the abomination of desolation setting up in their temple, to flee. This will be at the mid-point of the 7-year period. No harm will come to them. The church will not be on the earth at this time. The ones who are told to flee are the Jews. God knows that at this time, there are 144,000 Jews who are sealed by God and He is going to protect them. Many believe that they will flee into the Rock City of Petra.

    I see nothing in scripture that tells me that the church will be here or what role the church will have during this 7-year tribulation period. I read about the events of the Tribulation from Revelation Chapter 4 through Chapter 19, and not one place in those chapters is the church mentioned. After Revelation Chapter 3, there is no mention of the church. But when I get to Chapter 19, it seems to me that in Chapter 19 of Revelation, the church is in heaven at a wedding that is taking place while the tribulation is still happening on the earth and before Christ comes back at His second coming. Who are these people at this wedding? Who's getting married? Who are the ones in Chapter 19 who are clothed in white, the garments of a bride? Whoever they are, they will be the ones coming back with Christ at His second coming. I believe it is the church. At least, this is what I see. Please share your thoughts on this.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Matthew 19:27-28 The Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. (How will the saints judge the 12 tribes? Because there will still be flesh and blood beings on earth when the Lord returns).

    Revelation 21:1-3 (this is the Father coming down with New Jerusalem) John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Revelation 21:10 John was shown the great city, the holy Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God.

    Revelation 6:1-8; 12-17 Takes place during the tribulation on earth, but also speaks of Jesus AFTER the tribulation and the wrath he will bring on earth. (Reference Isaiah 2:10 and Isaiah speaks of this event in Revelation 6)

    Revelation 7:1-4. 9; 13-14 the Lord will seal his servants in their foreheads. 144,000 of all the tribes of Israel. He will also save a "great multitude" which no man could number of "all" nations. (These are the people who survived the Great Tribulation, some who will have gotten converted during the tribulation)

    Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation the Lord returns.

    Revelation 19:11-14;19-21 Heaven will open, Jesus will show up on a white horse. He will judge and make war.

    I know that's a lot. I hope that you will read through the scriptures on your own time.

    But know this, there will only be a 3 and a half year actual tribulation period, and anyone who is alive during that time will have to try and survive it, unless they are in the place of safety on earth which the Lord will have reserved for his people...and that place is the Wilderness over in Jerusalem.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    The Church is never in "heaven" per se at the wedding ceremony. Everything takes place on earth. The Lord will dwell in Jerusalem when he returns.

    Acts 1:6-12 The angel said the Lord will return in like manner.(Notice the Lord was on the Mt. of Olives when he left earth)

    Zechariah 14:1-5 (Read the entire chapter) Notice verse 5 His feet shall stand that day upon the Mt. of Olives which is before Jerusalem on the east. (The entire chapter of Zechariah 14 takes place while the Lord is dwelling on earth)

    Zechariah 14:9-11 Lord shall be king over all the earth.

    Zechariah 14:16-19 The Feast of Tabernacles will be held in Jerusalem each year where Jesus will be dwelling.

    Zechariah 8:1-8 Lord returns to Zion and dwells in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem will be called City of Truth. He will bring his people to Jerusalem to be his people and he their God. (This has not taken place yet; it's all future)

    Isaiah 66:15-18;19-20;23-24 All flesh will come worship him from one new moon to another, one Sabbath to another. People who are in the lake of fire will not have their fire quenched. (this is all future)

    Revelation 20:1-3 The Angel comes to bound Satan 1,000yrs. (This is the First resurrection) These saints will reign with Christ 1,000yrs.

    I Thessalonins 3:13-17 The Lord coming with all his saints in the clouds. See Daniel 7

    Daniel 7:1-3;13-14; (verse 13 remember the Lord said he's coming back in the clouds?)

    Daniel 7:7-18;27 (verse 27 under the heaven is where Jesus' Kingdom will be)

    Luke 1:26-27;30-33 (What did the angel tell Mary? Read verse 30-33.) That God promised DAvid someone would come through his lineage and sit on the throne of David. (Jesus will come to earth to sit on David's throne.)

    Psalm 123:11-16 The Lord swore in truth to David he will sit upon David's throne. (Who are his children? the Saints).

    David's throne will be in Jerusalem.

    I will continue...
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21

    The people mentioned in Matthew 24:29 to the end of the chapter that Christ is going to gather are Jews, not the church. The word "Tribes" in Verse 30 is very important. That tells us that we are talking about Jewish people. It is a Jewish term. All the tribes of the earth shall mourn. And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. All the tribes! Again, that would be Jews.

    In Revelation Chapter 1 Verse 7, it tells us that every eye will see Him, even those who have pierced Him. Zechariah 12:10 is a prophecy that the Jews hold to, only they don't understand its application. It says that when Messiah comes, they will look upon Him whom they have pierced.

    So at this time when Christ comes, at His second coming, the Jews who are left on the earth, they are going to mourn, and they are going to look and go "Oh no, we crucified our Messiah, and here He is!" The Jews are going to recognize Him.

    Verse 31 also uses a keyword, and that is the word "elect." It tells us that when Christ does come, He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet. I'll share some technical information with you to show you how good this passage really is:

    He is going to send His angels out with a great sound of a Shofar. It's a ram's horn. In the Greek text, the word "sound" is in brackets, which means it has been added to the text by some unseen person who doesn't understand the fact that the word "great" modifies the trumpet. It is called a great Shofar.

    The prophecy is in Isaiah Chapter 27 Verses 12 and 13. It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people (The Jews) from the four corners of the earth. So that is very important because that's also a prophecy that the Jews looked for. It says He is going to gather them together, His elect, that would be the Jews, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.

    Running out of space, I will send a Part 2:
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesse, I'm not sure what part of my comment you disagree with, but this initially was about Revelations 21 and my saying it takes place after the Lord's 1,000 year reign on earth. After his reign the Father will come down bringing New Jerusalem with him. Basically no man will ever go to the 3rd heaven where the Father, Son and holy angels dwell currently. God's desire is to dwell with man on earth stationed in Jerusalem. Heaven will be on earth. At no time will man ascend to the 3rd heaven to dwell while others are left behind.

    I have scriptures to support my claim but it would take 5 boxes or more to explain. :-P
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21
    (Part 3:)

    Lastly, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not all. I think our disagreement is more of a timing issue than anything else. I completely respect your views and I know we can't agree on everything. Wouldn't that be nice if every believer agreed on every word of scripture? We (The Church) would not be in such a mess that we are in today if we all agreed with everything. But I'm sure we both would agree that that's never going to happen as long as we live in these fleshly bodies!

    Thank you so much for your reply. And thank you for sharing your understanding with me.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21
    (Part 2:)

    This is known as the 70th week of Daniel, a week being a seven-year period. I don't know how to get 3-1/2 years out of a week? The 70th week of Daniel is divided into four sections: Pains of Birth (The first 3-1/2 years), the Pivotal Point (Mid-Point of the Tribulation), Perils of tribulation (The last 3-1/2 years known as the Great Tribulation), and then the promise of His Coming (The Second Coming of Christ).

    You say that the actual tribulation begins as soon as the man of sin moves from Rome and sits in the temple, and if you are referring to what the Bible calls "The Great Tribulation" then I agree. I am curious as to how you know for sure this man comes from Rome?

    If no man will ever go to the 3rd heaven where the Father, Son, and holy angels currently dwell, where is Paul the apostle at right now? Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. If the Lord is in the 3rd heaven and Paul is present with the Lord, where is Paul? Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man-whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows-was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. Could that have been Paul himself? And wasn't John caught up to the 3rd heaven? John got to see the throne in heaven and the one sitting on it.

    I do agree that there will be some who will survive the Great Tribulation, the last 3-1/2 years. However, I think it will be very few, not great multitudes. I do thank you for sending me all these scriptures. Please know that I have read all these before and I am familiar with them. They are not new to me.

    (One more very short reply to follow)

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