Revelation Chapter 16 Discussion Page 3

  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 16
    I will take a guess: 1. Our sky. 2. Paradise. 3.Heaven. note: Paradise and Heaven are two places not one. Paradise is where we wait for judgement and if are worthy we go to Heaven.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    When reading the Word & its use of this word, 'heaven', I see it applied in four ways:

    a. the sky/atmosphere or troposphere & this goes to an altitude of approx. fifteen miles. Genesis 6:7, James 5:18 as examples.

    b. the celestial (outer space) of planets, stars & constellations. Deuteronomy 4:19, Matthew 24:29.

    c. the Place of God's Abode. Hebrews 8:1, Acts 7:56.

    d. the new Heaven (& Earth) that is yet to come after all the corrupt Earth & Sky are dissolved. Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1.
  • RICHARD LONG - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Thanks i understand now
  • Richard on Revelation 16

    Everyone's Adversary The sinner's Redeemer

    Exalted himself, resulting in man's ruin Humbled Himself, resulting in redemption

    Accuses us before God Intercedes for us with God

    Followers share in his ruin Followers share in His reign

    Men become like him Men become like Christ

    A liar and deceiver He is the truth

    Promises freedom, but makes men slaves Takes slaves and gives them freedom

    Turns men from the Father He is the only way to the Father

    Produces death Delivers from death

    Resists the will of God Submits Himself to the will of God

    Cruel and sadistic Gracious and compassionate
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Thank you Richard. A great list of comparisons - Great Truths for us to praise God for.
  • Richard - in Reply on Revelation 16
    This didn't come up the way I posted It. As it was separated. Hopefully you can read through the lines denoting which one is which. Sorry for any confusion.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Posting here does not always retain our format/use of non alpha script. But we can easily see the clear distinction between the two personalities you gave. Thank you.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Thanks for your replies brother. Just thought it was a nice list between the evil one and Christ. Then seeing it wasn't separated looked a little odd. As people close to the Lord(like yourself) would probably understand the post I just didn't want anyone to take it the wrong way.

    It seems there is another poster named "Richard" so I'll now go by this name to indicate one from the other.

    Hope all is well with you Chris, God Bless.
  • Duane Martin on Revelation 16
    The Book of Daniel's secrets were revealed to me when I was a little boy and this is our story!

    By the age of 12 I had read the Bible from cover to cover. When I was 12/1974 I started telling people about The Beast and how Europe would unite one day and become a global power from which he would rise. When the Berlin Wall came down 15 years later in 1989 Toes/Nations/Kings/Horns formed the EU just as I was shown!

    1. King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon was the Head of fine Gold!

    2. Kings Darius & Cyrus of the Medes & Persians were the Breast & Arms of Silver!

    3. Alexander the Great of the Greeks was the Belly & Thighs of Brass!

    4. Romans were the Legs of *Iron!

    5. The European Union are The Feet of *Iron & Clay with 10 toes/Nations/Kings/Horns!

    According to History and the Book of Daniel, These are the 5 Nations spoken of by Daniel that have had rule over Israel and the World over the years.

    *Iron, look at an old map of the Roman Empire, The EU are ALL nations who were once part of Rome!

    Daniel speaks of them being one but not mixed together into one, therefore they are all separate nations/kings/toes/horns just as it was written 2 years ago!

    When the EU begins to collapse(its already begun) they will call upon a man and then The Beast will rise and fulfill what's written of him!
  • Duane Martin on Revelation 16
    Who told man to worship Father on Sunday and where is it in The Bible, I've read them all from cover to cover and nowhere in any of them does it say to worship him on Sunday. Even Yeshua/Jesus and his followers adhered to the Sabbath Day unto his last breath! So, I ask again, WHO told us to change it to Sunday?(I know, I just wonder if you all do)

    By the way, I'm a Baptist, not a LDS!
  • Bendito Palavra - in Reply on Revelation 16
    The Church is not commanded to keep the Sabbath. The command is specific to the LORD's covenant with Israel:

    Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (Exodus 31:16)

    And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:15)

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    LDS? Do you mean SDA?

    As a Baptist, how does it work out for you to attend your Fellowship on a Sunday? It must be a real problem then.

    And you're right, there's no scriptural warrant to change the day to Sunday - it appears it was something that the early Church began to do (Acts 20:7) - maybe in recognition & remembrance of their Saviour's resurrection. But I would be fine if someone wanted to worship on the Saturday, but it may be a lonely experience for them. When serving in Pakistan, I worshipped with believers there on a Friday - the point was that we did worship the Lord & we did it together in common love & faith.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Most Jews and others worship on Sabbath which is Saturday. Myself and most christians wor0ship on a Sunday. ( The Lords day.) Jesus rose on a Sunday is the reason we worship on a Sunday.
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Brother Chris,

    As you may be aware there are many various Baptist is the 7th Day Baptist and they observe the Saturday Sabbath. There may be other Baptists as well...

    God Bless.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Brother Dan. Just further to my comment as you truly piqued my interest in the Seventh Day Baptists. I took time to listen to a video from a Pastor from one of those Churches (in the U.S.), speaking on this subject of observing the Sabbath. And of course, he shared verbatim to what others on this Site have also written, so I assume that the support of Sabbath-keeping generally is based on that understanding from the Word.

    However, no mention was made by him about the aspect of the Old Covenant against the New Covenant brought in by Jesus Christ. Maybe he saw no relevance in that, but I believe, with a full & proper understanding of it, one should get a better understanding of how God looks at us & what He requires of us as those now gifted with His Spirit as opposed to those who were required to adhere to the Law & implications. I'm not wanting to raise this subject again as it has been brought up many times already, but to share that a balanced message or exposition, would be most needful to those seeking understanding.
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Brother Chris,

    Happy Sabbath! Today is the sabbath of our Lord, and I'm very blessed, not only today... but everyday in our Lord Jesus Christ!

    Regarding the Seventh Day Baptists, I'm happy to share this or any other information, with you and other Christians here. We are hopefully here to help each other, and fellowship.

    I'm continually learning as I study the Bible scriptures. As with all Christians, it is my hope to receive the ultimate gift of eternal life. Yes, I agree with you, it is beneficial to get different viewpoints on important bible topics including the sabbath.

    Revelation 22:14

    "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

    God Bless.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Brother Dan, thank you very much for that information - I never knew that at all. I thought, that apart from a few (minor) differences, all Baptist churches came under the same banner of doctrines, beliefs & practises. That news has really floored me - I would never have thought a Baptist church could recognize & celebrate Sabbath.

    My apologies to you & to Duane Martin for my careless comment.
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    The sabbath day is Saturday, and always has been from the time God created the world, through the Bible old and new Testament time periods Jesus and the apostles observed Saturday.

    I believe the Sunday sabbath keeping day change took place according to historic records attributed to Roman Emperor Constantine in A.D. 321. Thereafter adopted by the Catholic church, and then other churches along the way. It can easily be researched on the web.

    Since God gave mankind the Saturday sabbath as a gift for us, and a commandment - the 4th, I will keep it holy along with the other 9 commandments.

    God Bless.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 16
    The sabbath day is Saturday. True. But Christians worship on a Sunday, being the Lords Day. The day He rose from the dead.
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Hi brother Duane,

    Great question....Christians really need to be honest about this commandment.

    Sabbath has always been on Saturday the 7th Day of the week. The sabbath began at the time God created the heavens and earth which took 6 days....God rested on the 7th day - the Sabbath. God gave man the sabbath day as the 4th commandment. Not only is it a commandment, God is also a "wonderful gift" to man, for mankind's use to experience a refreshing rest of mind and body. On this day we give thanks to God, and we spend the sabbath day in prayer, meditation, and reflection, and fellowship with others.

    The roman emperor Constantine the Great changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday On March 7, A.D. 321, and issued the first civil Sunday law, compelling all the people in the Roman Empire, except farmers, to rest on Sunday - and not Saturday.

    As true Christians, we should be observing all 10 Commandments, including the 4th commandment! Jesus speaks to keeping the commandments below.....

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
  • Bendito Palavra - in Reply on Revelation 16
    In John Chapter 20, they worshipped, and it was not the Sabbath.
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    We can worship anytime, any day....still doesn't excuse not keeping the Saturday sabbath as much as we can. Jesus and his apostles kept the sabbath.

    John 15:10

    "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

    God Bless.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Revelation 16
    "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"

    "Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill?"
  • Brother dan - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Dear Brother Richard in Christ,

    Happy Sabbath!

    Yes, the sabbath was made for man, and it truly is a wonderful gift from God. Yes we can do good on this day.

    Jesus showed us all of the wonderful things that could be performed on this special day! The scribes and Pharisees were always looking for ways to trip Jesus up with the Sabbath.

    Luke 6:9-10

    "Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?" 10. And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    We can justify many things on the sabbath....but, ignore the sabbath, God forbid!

    Apostle Paul below:

    Romans 3:31

    "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

    God Bless.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Good day brother Dan,

    I also believe following the Ten Commandments is something the Lord wants us all to do. As really when you become Blessed with the Holy Ghost they are a pretty simple line to follow. Some believe in a slightly different way. Which is fine as them knowing that staying away from sin or "lusts of the flesh" is key which in itself is the same thing. Now being in Christ it does get more broad than just the Ten Commandments. Which I've stated is a good simple outline of our duties. Sadly some believe they cannot sin anymore. Which I won't get into that but it really is sorrowful. Striving to follow Jesus Christ, the best we can, shows God what's really in our hearts. Knowing even if we slip up to stay meek and confess to the Lord. Praying for His never ending Mercy, it shall be ours. He shall direct our paths.

    Keeping everyday Holy is wonderful. Love one another my brothers and sisters!

    Stay producing delightful fruit for the Lord. God Bless you brother.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Richard, if we look at the Commandments of God, whether given only to Israel as they were, or in a general way to us, of knowing & attending to God's requirements, then there can be no fault found in the Law.

    The issue that comes up, whether known or unknown to the Law-keeper, is a theological one & in a very real way impacts on our view of the Scriptures & our view of our relationship to the Godhead. The Word declares that God's Law "is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Rom 7:12) so there's nothing wrong with the Law & its eternal purity & accuracy. But the problem comes up when Jesus Christ appeared on the scene & gave His Life for mankind. Something happened to that Law - it didn't change in its character & condition - it changed in its 'use by date' hence, its usefulness. (Heb 8:6,7): "But now hath he (Jesus) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant (the Law) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."

    And so, if the Law remained without fault in as far as giving us direction in life & keeping us acceptable to God, then there was no need for a Saviour - the Law was doing a good job, or was it? But that was never in God's Plan as the 'expiry date' had come when Jesus came: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:3,4). So here we have the decision: are we righteous before God by keeping the letter of the Law, or by the righteousness of the Law which comes from the Spirit? If we choose to 'keep' the Law & tick off the list to show how we're doing in our eyes or before God, then our righteousness comes from the Law & not by faith in Jesus Christ.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Revelation 16
    I totally agree with you brother. The old covenant law(Ten Commandments) are pretty simple and in no way cover the whole spectrum of committing sin. As if someone still thought "just live by these ten and I'm good" that clearly, to me, shows that Christ is not growing within them, yet hopefully. The differentiation of living by the flesh, or in the Spirit, is a whole new life. Truly gifted to us by the works of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Thanks be to people like you and all the other brothers, and sisters, in Christ around the world trying to spread the "good news" of salvation. Able to have true relationship with our Eternal Father in Heaven. In the world we live in today not many people are interested in hearing about the Lord. Never stop confessing Him to other people. At least trying to plant a seed, for our Father, that one day may begin to grow in Christ. "Every good, perfect, gift is from above"

    God Bless you Chris.
  • Patsy on Revelation 16
    Titles of God's child, called, redeemed & etc.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 16
    Sons of God.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Revelation 16
    If you are saved, you are a daughter of God and of Christ.

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