Yes Steve, 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one", is the best singular verse that succinctly describes the Triune God. Then to humanly fathom such a Being as God Who can send Himself forth to accomplish His Purposes (as His Word & Holy Spirit) & not be deficient or destroy Himself in any way, becomes a difficulty for many - hence the on-going debates on this important subject.
Revelation 17:15 And he saith to me, "The (waters) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, represent peoples, and multitudes,and nations, and tongues.
Starting at verse 9 we go back to John; who apparently was writing this to an unknown brother.
He gives his location (Patmos); and the reason why (for the Word of God and the testimony of Christ). It is widely accepted that he was there because of an exile; and there are suggestions that they tried to kill him by boiling in oil (not in the scriptures); and failed.
In any event; we get to the next verse and John reports that it was the "Lord's day" and he heard the sound of a voice as a trumpet. This certainly could signify the type of occurrence when the church is called up in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
Verses 11 to the end of the chapter once again describe Christ as the Alpha and Omega; and John's mission to write down what he is told and send it to the seven churches; now named. The next verse involves John looking at the source of the voice and at first seeing seven golden candlesticks. Then from verse 13 through 17 we get the description of Christ with a detail of the seven stars in his right hand in verse 16. To say that he was "like the Son of man" in verse 13 perhaps means that it reminded him of what Christ looked at at the Transfiguration or when he was on earth. In any case; even though John had seen Him transformed; the full glory still made him fall as though dead (v. 17). Jesus reassured him not to fear and that He was dead and now alive; and that He had the keys to death and hell. (v. 18). He explains what will be of what are and shall be (i.e. chapter 2 and 3 then the rest of the book.) The last verse explains the stars as angels (or messengers meaning pastors); as well as the candlesticks which ARE the 7 churches. We are reminded of the fear of God and Christ as well as the fact that it is HIS church (all true ones); and His body of believers; and His ownership and authority over all things. May we all have proper reverence for the Lord.
Revelation begins much in the characteristic emphasis that John placed in the Gospels with the Godhead and its roles in rulership. The message was from Jesus Christ that God gave to him (apparently John) through an angel (unnamed). He who bore record (verse 2) shows John mentioning himself in the 3rd person; as to the written testimony of what he had seen and heard. Verse 3 shows a blessing for anyone who hears and KEEPS the things written in it; which shows that admonitions to persevere patiently and keeps themselves from aligning or falling into error which often comes into the church will be needed for this benefit.
Verse 4 and 5 show the seven churches in Asia and how they typify the sevenfold Spirit of God at the throne. This could be a template of the churches throughout the Church Age; or as some say chronologically roughly describing the state of the church; i.e. the Philadelphia church being the one that brought revival in the 1700s and through the early 1900's and the Laodicean one being the last days one of today which certainly seems to be the state the church is in today in general.
Verse 5 shows Christ's being the first begotten (or firstfruits) of the Resurrected dead; as well as the faithful witness Himself; and His position as the prince of the kings of the earth. Verse 6 clues us in about later passages in Revelation stating that we are made "kings and priests"
(that is those faithful believers today).
Verse 7 also alludes to later verses of the Second coming; as well as a preview of the sixth seal judgment. It also shows a foreshadow of Zechariah 12:12-14 when Israel as a whole finally realizes at the last moment before Christ returns that He is the true Messiah. Finally; the general observation of all those who will bow the knee ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11)
is previewed. Verse 8 about the Alpha and Omega shows the boundaries of time for all things from a Godhead ruling outside time itself.
Remember, stuff like that is simple for yhwh, even with out a human being aware of it. Im glad some of us have discernment enouf to put such two and two together
It would seem that absolutely; the falling away and removal of candlesticks is occurring. This is especially sobering when we see the admonition to the church in Ephesus whose only criticism from Christ Himself is that they had lost their first love ( Rev. 2:4).
Everything else they were doing doctrinally; discernment wise with false teaching etc was on par yet they still faced having their candlestick removed; and that was back before the end of the first century! (actually it says have their "lampstand" removed).
It is helpful here to see how individuals in the Book of Revelation in chapter 2 and 3 are addressed to along WITH an entire congregation. CLEARLY apostasy; i.e. falling away was characterizing the vast majority of the Sardis church; nonetheless certain individuals were said to be worthy and would walk with Him in white garments. There is a potential at least for the Laodiceans; but clearly we should guard our hearts; and walk away from apostacy if we are in a place where leadership concurs with false teaching and there is not support of others to rebuke those in authority.
1 Timothy chapter 4 talks about the falling away in the last days. Even 1 John 4:12 discusses the fact that there are already many antichrists in that first century church. The OVERALL degrading of churches that for decades or centuries held to doctrinal truths certainly shows us how soon His return must be.
God warns us in Rev. 3:11 indicates that we may lose our crown to someone else if not careful. We need to be around those who are sharpening one another as "iron sharpens iron" ( Prov. 27:17). Surely; the Lord will lead us to good fellowship; if not for any other reason that we are commanded to assemble together even more so as we see the Lord's soon coming ( Heb. 10:25 loosely translated). The remnant will be found; of course it can take some time. The question now is whether we should; as the famous song says; hold out; walk away or run.
Are we seeing with the church turning away from the true gospel of Christ the removal of God's candlesticks from the church? What about the 'falling away"?
I think you would be okay to take Revelation 3:20 seriously. We do serve a merciful God. What I find interesting is that to this particular church, Christ was standing on the outside. And they had no need of Him. And they were lukewarm.
Have you ever seen that picture with Christ standing outside a door and He is knocking? I remember that picture hanging on a wall in our house growing up. But if you notice in that picture, there is no door knob on the outside of the door.
When Christ calls us, when He comes knocking at the door, we must not harden our heart, but respond to His call by opening the door to Him!
Jesse thank you a good number of my questions answered in one shot with "In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection".
I found this "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." in Revelations and I should like to take it literally and link it to GOD's mercy and the forgiveness of sins. Am I OK with that?
That seven Angels are here meant, and not the Holy Spirit, is most evident from the place, the number, and the tradition. Those who imagine the Holy Ghost to be intended suppose the number seven is used to denote his manifold gifts and graces. That these seven spirits are angels, see Re 3:1; 4:5; and particularly Re 5:6, where they are called the seven spirits of God Sent Forth into All the Earth.
Revelation 1:4 says from the seven Spirits which are before His, that is, God's throne;
There are two schools of thought on this. Please know that the number seven doesn't necessarily mean there are seven Spirits.
In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection.
The Jews take it as a Hebraism. RASHI, one of the greatest Jewish scholars uses Isaiah 11:1-2 to show that what John is using is a Hebraism to denote the seven fold Spirit of God. It means the Spirit of God is complete and perfect.
But what specifically is he making reference to?
In Revelation 4:5, we see the same thing when we study what the throne is like in heaven.
It says and out of the throne proceed lightnings, and thunderings, and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
In Revelation Chapter 5, the chapter where we see this scroll with seven seals on it, which is the title deed to the earth, and the call goes out who is worthy to take the scroll and loosen the seals thereof.
And no one was found worthy in heaven. And John began to weep. And he was told don't weep, the Lamb of God is worthy.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.
The seven eyes of Christ are the seven Spirits. So it represents completeness, perfection.
But its application is to the Lord's seeing. You see, he's talking about the all-encompassing Spirit who sees all things, and knows all things. That's the way the Jews understood it.
The scripture reference is Zechariah 4:10 which talks about these seven eyes, meaning that God sees perfectly and completely all things. And so John is using a Hebraism here.
Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia, Grace be unto you, and peace from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the SEVEN SPIRITS before his throne.
This is speaking about Christ, and the SEVEN SPIRITS of HIM.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (Christ), and a BRANCH (man, you and I) shall grow out of his (Christ's) roots.
Here are the SEVEN SPIRITS of Christ.
Isaiah 11:2 And the (1) SPIRIT of the Lord (the Father) shall rest upon him, the SPIRIT of (2) wisdom and (3) understanding, the SPIRIT of (4) counsel and (5) might, the SPIRIT of (6) knowledge and (7) fear of the Lord (the Father);
The root is the LIFE of the BRANCH; it feeds the BRANCH with these SEVEN SPIRITS.
Anybody noticed how the seven churches are mentioned in the Bible? This verse is the only verse that speaks to me personally because I (we) actually have not seen Paul's face in the flesh.
Colossians 2:1
For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Then if you read the entire chapter, it is telling us the most important thing we need to remember"knit together in love".
In conclusion, sometime in the life of an individual we have been one of these churches. The last church of Laodicean gave me an indication that Paul great conflict seems to be reflected in the different of opinions one may expresses in the comments in this Bible site.
For example, the need for water baptism to received the Holy Ghost. Whereby Peter had proven that you received the Holy Spirit when you believed in what Jesus did on the cross. Paul even corrected Peter on this subject. Unless one believed in vain?
Do you understand the same way about the churches (i.e. The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, the sons of God, fellow heirs, fellow believers, the saints who are still alive)?
Verse 7, is the meat and potaroes of the book of revelation. Now look how verse 7 starts out "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him", this is very important, it's like GOD knew people would take this out of context in future chapters and verses.
Here are some references ( Acts 1:9-11, Rev 1:7, Rev 6:12-17, Rev 7:13&14, Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28)
Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Notice:
"and a cloud received him" and "so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven".
You'd probably enjoy a video, a man made it for his son. That the son released so all people could see it. It goes real fast, being about 1 hour in length:
Genesis to Revelation. The last 5 minutes represent Satans release from hell to tempt the humans in heaven. Then the Great White Throne judgement; 3 minutes of the bliss of no more evil, ever again.
Christ Jesus came one time to preach, teach and to fulfill the New Covenant with his Blood. Take take away our sins by taking all those to the Cross with Him. In rising from the dead or ascending people sometimes say "well...that was going away and coming back." I say they don't really believe. He never left us then. Never did. He fulfilled it (it is finished), rose from the grave after 3-days of fulfillment in an other respect and ascended in the first chapter of Acts to give His Holy Spirit to all. That was all one time. He wasn't going and coming back as he stated he'd never leave nor forsake us - which is a promise He's always kept.
Now, the rapture Christ comes to take the church before the tribulation and or 'hour of temptation' as I've read in Revelation. He states very clearly that the church was never intended to see or go through the rapture. That's not John Darby or movement -- it's been believed and known since the early church.
After all events of the tribulation have taken place and the 7-years draws to an end; Christ Jesus is coming back. Which is the 2nd coming.
This shouldn't be taught as derogative. These are all three prophetic events. Christ Jesus coming as the Messiah was prophesied long before it happened and people weren't counting it as a number. But, it happened at a point in which the Father declared it was so. The same will be of the rapture (the falling away and are signs that this is nigh)
I believe Jesus will take His Bride out of the world before the Great Tribulation just as angels took Lot out of Sodom before the fire fell that burned up that city. Jesus will later return to earth at the end of the Tribulation to set up His kingdom on earth.
Does the Bible tell us, we will be Raptured before Tribulation or after Tribulation ? Does Jesus come to earth twice or three times ? 1. The first time as a baby, and our Savior. 2. The second time He will come in all his Glory in the clouds where everyone on earth will look up even the dead in Christ will rise up to see him. When Jesus comes, this is a very Big deal, He will gather all of us up in the air, then he will destroy the earth & make a new earth for all of those who have been saved by Salvation through Jesus Christ. Or, the first time come as our Savior. 2. Second time comes in the clouds to take us with him in Heaven. 3. Then Jesus comes back to earth the third time to burn up the earth to make a new earth. Thank you for your answer.
Revelation 17:15 And he saith to me, "The (waters) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, represent peoples, and multitudes,and nations, and tongues.
Starting at verse 9 we go back to John; who apparently was writing this to an unknown brother.
He gives his location (Patmos); and the reason why (for the Word of God and the testimony of Christ). It is widely accepted that he was there because of an exile; and there are suggestions that they tried to kill him by boiling in oil (not in the scriptures); and failed.
In any event; we get to the next verse and John reports that it was the "Lord's day" and he heard the sound of a voice as a trumpet. This certainly could signify the type of occurrence when the church is called up in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
Verses 11 to the end of the chapter once again describe Christ as the Alpha and Omega; and John's mission to write down what he is told and send it to the seven churches; now named. The next verse involves John looking at the source of the voice and at first seeing seven golden candlesticks. Then from verse 13 through 17 we get the description of Christ with a detail of the seven stars in his right hand in verse 16. To say that he was "like the Son of man" in verse 13 perhaps means that it reminded him of what Christ looked at at the Transfiguration or when he was on earth. In any case; even though John had seen Him transformed; the full glory still made him fall as though dead (v. 17). Jesus reassured him not to fear and that He was dead and now alive; and that He had the keys to death and hell. (v. 18). He explains what will be of what are and shall be (i.e. chapter 2 and 3 then the rest of the book.) The last verse explains the stars as angels (or messengers meaning pastors); as well as the candlesticks which ARE the 7 churches. We are reminded of the fear of God and Christ as well as the fact that it is HIS church (all true ones); and His body of believers; and His ownership and authority over all things. May we all have proper reverence for the Lord.
Revelation begins much in the characteristic emphasis that John placed in the Gospels with the Godhead and its roles in rulership. The message was from Jesus Christ that God gave to him (apparently John) through an angel (unnamed). He who bore record (verse 2) shows John mentioning himself in the 3rd person; as to the written testimony of what he had seen and heard. Verse 3 shows a blessing for anyone who hears and KEEPS the things written in it; which shows that admonitions to persevere patiently and keeps themselves from aligning or falling into error which often comes into the church will be needed for this benefit.
Verse 4 and 5 show the seven churches in Asia and how they typify the sevenfold Spirit of God at the throne. This could be a template of the churches throughout the Church Age; or as some say chronologically roughly describing the state of the church; i.e. the Philadelphia church being the one that brought revival in the 1700s and through the early 1900's and the Laodicean one being the last days one of today which certainly seems to be the state the church is in today in general.
Verse 5 shows Christ's being the first begotten (or firstfruits) of the Resurrected dead; as well as the faithful witness Himself; and His position as the prince of the kings of the earth. Verse 6 clues us in about later passages in Revelation stating that we are made "kings and priests"
(that is those faithful believers today).
Verse 7 also alludes to later verses of the Second coming; as well as a preview of the sixth seal judgment. It also shows a foreshadow of Zechariah 12:12-14 when Israel as a whole finally realizes at the last moment before Christ returns that He is the true Messiah. Finally; the general observation of all those who will bow the knee ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11)
is previewed. Verse 8 about the Alpha and Omega shows the boundaries of time for all things from a Godhead ruling outside time itself.
There ae other instances in the bible of people being raised from the dead. The first is found in 1 Kings 17:17-24.
I concur with Richard.
And I would like to add to what he said concerning Ephesus. Paul gave them warning concerning the trouble coming after his departure in Acts 20:29-30.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
God bless.
Everything else they were doing doctrinally; discernment wise with false teaching etc was on par yet they still faced having their candlestick removed; and that was back before the end of the first century! (actually it says have their "lampstand" removed).
It is helpful here to see how individuals in the Book of Revelation in chapter 2 and 3 are addressed to along WITH an entire congregation. CLEARLY apostasy; i.e. falling away was characterizing the vast majority of the Sardis church; nonetheless certain individuals were said to be worthy and would walk with Him in white garments. There is a potential at least for the Laodiceans; but clearly we should guard our hearts; and walk away from apostacy if we are in a place where leadership concurs with false teaching and there is not support of others to rebuke those in authority.
1 Timothy chapter 4 talks about the falling away in the last days. Even 1 John 4:12 discusses the fact that there are already many antichrists in that first century church. The OVERALL degrading of churches that for decades or centuries held to doctrinal truths certainly shows us how soon His return must be.
God warns us in Rev. 3:11 indicates that we may lose our crown to someone else if not careful. We need to be around those who are sharpening one another as "iron sharpens iron" ( Prov. 27:17). Surely; the Lord will lead us to good fellowship; if not for any other reason that we are commanded to assemble together even more so as we see the Lord's soon coming ( Heb. 10:25 loosely translated). The remnant will be found; of course it can take some time. The question now is whether we should; as the famous song says; hold out; walk away or run.
Be blessed. Agape.
I think we can relate to many, in some ways.
I think you would be okay to take Revelation 3:20 seriously. We do serve a merciful God. What I find interesting is that to this particular church, Christ was standing on the outside. And they had no need of Him. And they were lukewarm.
Have you ever seen that picture with Christ standing outside a door and He is knocking? I remember that picture hanging on a wall in our house growing up. But if you notice in that picture, there is no door knob on the outside of the door.
When Christ calls us, when He comes knocking at the door, we must not harden our heart, but respond to His call by opening the door to Him!
Roy
I found this "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." in Revelations and I should like to take it literally and link it to GOD's mercy and the forgiveness of sins. Am I OK with that?
Roy
Revelation 1:4 says from the seven Spirits which are before His, that is, God's throne;
There are two schools of thought on this. Please know that the number seven doesn't necessarily mean there are seven Spirits.
In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection.
The Jews take it as a Hebraism. RASHI, one of the greatest Jewish scholars uses Isaiah 11:1-2 to show that what John is using is a Hebraism to denote the seven fold Spirit of God. It means the Spirit of God is complete and perfect.
But what specifically is he making reference to?
In Revelation 4:5, we see the same thing when we study what the throne is like in heaven.
It says and out of the throne proceed lightnings, and thunderings, and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
In Revelation Chapter 5, the chapter where we see this scroll with seven seals on it, which is the title deed to the earth, and the call goes out who is worthy to take the scroll and loosen the seals thereof.
And no one was found worthy in heaven. And John began to weep. And he was told don't weep, the Lamb of God is worthy.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.
The seven eyes of Christ are the seven Spirits. So it represents completeness, perfection.
But its application is to the Lord's seeing. You see, he's talking about the all-encompassing Spirit who sees all things, and knows all things. That's the way the Jews understood it.
The scripture reference is Zechariah 4:10 which talks about these seven eyes, meaning that God sees perfectly and completely all things. And so John is using a Hebraism here.
Hope this helps!
Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia, Grace be unto you, and peace from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the SEVEN SPIRITS before his throne.
This is speaking about Christ, and the SEVEN SPIRITS of HIM.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (Christ), and a BRANCH (man, you and I) shall grow out of his (Christ's) roots.
Here are the SEVEN SPIRITS of Christ.
Isaiah 11:2 And the (1) SPIRIT of the Lord (the Father) shall rest upon him, the SPIRIT of (2) wisdom and (3) understanding, the SPIRIT of (4) counsel and (5) might, the SPIRIT of (6) knowledge and (7) fear of the Lord (the Father);
The root is the LIFE of the BRANCH; it feeds the BRANCH with these SEVEN SPIRITS.
May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear.
God Bless You.
Colossians 2:1
For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Then if you read the entire chapter, it is telling us the most important thing we need to remember"knit together in love".
In conclusion, sometime in the life of an individual we have been one of these churches. The last church of Laodicean gave me an indication that Paul great conflict seems to be reflected in the different of opinions one may expresses in the comments in this Bible site.
For example, the need for water baptism to received the Holy Ghost. Whereby Peter had proven that you received the Holy Spirit when you believed in what Jesus did on the cross. Paul even corrected Peter on this subject. Unless one believed in vain?
Do you understand the same way about the churches (i.e. The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, the sons of God, fellow heirs, fellow believers, the saints who are still alive)?
"In the clouds"
Here are some references ( Acts 1:9-11, Rev 1:7, Rev 6:12-17, Rev 7:13&14, Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28)
Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Notice:
"and a cloud received him" and "so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven".
Sounds a lot Rev 1:7
What are you all's thoughts?
Genesis to Revelation. The last 5 minutes represent Satans release from hell to tempt the humans in heaven. Then the Great White Throne judgement; 3 minutes of the bliss of no more evil, ever again.
YouTube movie: BLESSON
Now, the rapture Christ comes to take the church before the tribulation and or 'hour of temptation' as I've read in Revelation. He states very clearly that the church was never intended to see or go through the rapture. That's not John Darby or movement -- it's been believed and known since the early church.
After all events of the tribulation have taken place and the 7-years draws to an end; Christ Jesus is coming back. Which is the 2nd coming.
This shouldn't be taught as derogative. These are all three prophetic events. Christ Jesus coming as the Messiah was prophesied long before it happened and people weren't counting it as a number. But, it happened at a point in which the Father declared it was so. The same will be of the rapture (the falling away and are signs that this is nigh)
Hopefully these are helpful too
I believe Jesus will take His Bride out of the world before the Great Tribulation just as angels took Lot out of Sodom before the fire fell that burned up that city. Jesus will later return to earth at the end of the Tribulation to set up His kingdom on earth.