There is no doubt that God has allowed fallen angels to rule over nations as the book of Daniel makes clear regarding Persia and Greece specifically; with the angel Michael.
My question specifically would be WHEN these angels fell. The story of the watchers is in extrabiblical literature. I would tend more to think that they were part of the spiritual order and society that existed sometime AFTER Lucifer fell and took the angels with him; which clearly happened BEFORE Adam fell after the serpent incident in Genesis. The period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 where the ORIGINAL creation occurred and then in verse 2 it was void and in a chaotic state probably was when there was an original flood or disaster in the earth because of the trade with violence; etc mentioned in Ezekiel 28.
Satan himself has been given the role as a usurper; temporarily squatting as it were on territory that originally was to be under God's total rule and delegated to man in the garden to take care of. Apparently it is in the Divine plan to allow him and his henchmen to control nations and regions concurrently and to ultimately bring about the Messiah and end in Armageddon where the appointed time and judgment occurs.
As for reasoning here it is likely to test men; to see if they will follow their own judgments and imaginations and continue therefore in spiritual blindness or believe through a supernatural move of the Spirit the Gospel truth which is revealed only to those predetermined in His plan ( Deut 29:29). Overcoming therefore is the flesh; world and the Devil; all three are conquered through Christ's atonement. Some things in the interim before Christ comes back are delegated to the church in this time period and to those of faith previous to that and in the Tribulation. Prayer is a major key in holding back evil and the Lord temporarily holds back judgment until the fullness of times; as Romans states regarding the Gentiles.
When the Lord divided the nations at the time of the Tower of Babel ( Deuteronomy 32:8). And claimed (the as yet future) Israel as His own ( Deuteronomy 32:9). He assigned other Elohim, members of the Divine Council, (congregation of the mighty), ie created intelligences, (angels) as stewards over the other nations.
Those lesser gods, (because there is only ONE Most High God), did not fulfill their purpose in protecting and preserving the knowledge of the one true God and leading men back to Himself. But rebelled instead, by leading the people of the nations into idolatry and the worship of themselves. Thereby forcing God to judge and condemn them to die like men.
It is those Elohim that God is speaking to in Psalm 82. Not human judges or rulers.
That is my opinion which is based upon the teachings of the late and highly respected biblical scholar Dr. Michael S Heiser.
"Dr. Heiser attained an MA in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania, and an MA and PhD in the Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he minored in Classical studies. Dr. Heiser received his Bachelor's degree from Bob Jones University and also attended Bible college for three years."
Very good. You have found out that this is the judgment of those who followed a different WAY that is not the way of the most high of all gods.
Yes. The context reveals the intent and the identity of whom this judgment is about.
Before reading this any further, I request that anyone reading this would ask in the name of Jahshua for his God, Jah, To send these two female spirits that were with him from the beginning fo righteous discernment; to try the spirits for a revelation of truth, by praying for knowledge.
[ "Lack of knowledge is killing my people." (Hosea) Call Wisdom your sister and Understanding your kinswoman [ " I was his daily delight in the beginning" ])
Context with meditation is the key In this Psalm for knowledge.
God/Jah is there with the Angels and he is judging them.
In Hebrew the Angels are defined as: "mighty ones": in scripture Jah is the mighty of David. & etc...
These gods/angels/mighty have become Apostate/Rouge against Jah.
Unlike the faithful Angels/mighty ones, they became worshiped by the people called Heathens/Pagans/Gentiles.
We are also clued in that these are Angels by a verse later on that these eternal beings shall die the same as man, who lost his eternal life by the eating of the forbidden fruit in his garden of Paradise on Earth, to the"East of" Eden.
They are worshiped by men and have another WAY/Religion which pleases their god/Angel. Their doctrines are in error of the WAY of Jah.
In his judgment of them, Jah presents evidence of his WAY, THAT IS NOT part of their judgment & doctrines of their way;
To defend the poor and fatherless.
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(To) rid out of the hand of the wicked.
They walk in darkness because their way is in error causing the entire society(world) of the Earth's foundation of the way of Jah to go a different direction than Jah intended for mankind, that will cause Jah to judge the Earth.
Jah is speaking to the Angels, their father Jah created them, they are his children
There is a notion these days that states that the Bible call us "little gods" and this Psalm is their evidence for that assumption.
The scriptures use this term to describe those judges or teachers of the law who were learned in the Torah but as this chapter points out judged for hypocricy.
Verse 3 shows a theme which is echoed in 1 Tim. 5 starting in verse 3; as well as James 1:27 which also refers to widows and orphans as to the definition of "true religion."
Verse 6 seems to suggest that these are all children of God; of the Most High. However; the context of most of this Psalm seems to suggest partiality to the wicked and therefore going against God's ordinances. This was a type of Pharasitical behavior that characterized those who would not escape the damnation of hell as quoted in Matthew 23:33. In one sense; of course all those in Israel of noble lineage could follow their family tree to prove that they were sons of Abraham. But again; not all were true children ( Romans 9:7). In one sense we were all created in God's image; more precisely now in the image of Adam. We were all put in the book of the living ( Psalm 69:28). That is different from the Book of Life; clearly. Perhaps the meaning remains ambiguous; the nation of Israel were chosen as a whole but only a remnant truly believed.
The Psalm is generally a call for men to be wise judges; but also ends with God being implored to act (verse 8). In any event every knee will bow someday to God and to His Christ (as quoted in Philippians AND Romans but also from God being represented in Isaiah 45:23).
God also allows wicked judgments to accomplish His purposes in the end; refining His people for instance.
Manuel: The day of the Lord began when John the Baptist came preaching the kingdom of God is at hand.
This ONE DAY, a day called TODAY has been going on now for two thousand years.
Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day (of the Lord), that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
We are somewhere inside the hours of that day now and the light is neither clear, nor dark.
Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time (the end of that day and the beginning of the next day) IT SHALL BE LIGHT.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are THE TEMPLE OF IT.
Revelation 21:23 And the city (you are the new Jerusalem), had no need of the sun, neither the moon, to shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Zechariah 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah FIRST, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of (new) Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matthew 27:53 And came put of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem, and appeared to many (as ministering spirits).
Zachariah 12:8 And in that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of (new) Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David (Christ); and the house of David (Christ) shall be as God, as (the image of) the angle of the LORD before them.
Manuel, Christ is giving you great insight to his truths, so I hope you take what I write as encouragement and not criticism.
In you comment, you said Christ would raise them up the last day.
Manuel, the ones that God gave to Christ to be priest in the kingdom were resurrected with Christ.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power, but they shall shall be priest of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When you depart this flesh, in the twinkle of an eye you will put on immortality, and reign with Christ.
This ONE DAY (as a thousand years) began on penecost, when we could have the SEED indwell us. You WILL BE the exactness of Christ.
Luke 20:35 But they (the ones God gave to Christ) which shall be worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection of the dead .....
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore (you died on the cross): for they are equal unto the angels (you become a ministering spirit); and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.
Manuel Marques Teixeira on Psalms 82 - 2 years ago
You are gods, plural. It's written on the word of God . There is only One GOD Jesus said I AmThe bred of LIFE whosoever who believe in me sahl have Eternal LIFE. GOD IS SPIRIT ... The ONLY ONE WHO Has IMORTALity in Himself By His nature, He answered Moises , I AM WHAT I AM. Jesus was acused by his felow men for acting and speaking as GOD, and revealed to John in Apocalypse thsat Jesus is the Alfa and Omega.
The Bible teaches, that GOD can give Imortality to whom HE wiches, and Jesus said the He wil ressurect all who accept Him as GOD's SON, on the last day, when Jesus shall return in Glory to give His reward.
Jesus said :- Let the dead put the dead ones in the grave, you come and follow me
jesus teaches us who accept Him as the Begotten Son OF GOD, tha we wil have imortality, being like the angels of GOD. The diference is that only GOD is worthy of Adoration. The angel on apocalypse 19 .10 declined being adored saying to John that He should instead Adore only GOD. How Great Is GOD! He is LOVE and LIGHT and LIFE, it wil take us all eternity to know WHO GOD Is and stil, it's writen on the Bible that He IS Wonderfull and we can relate and love Him, but He wil remain Wonderful for ever and ever more eternaly. The point i'm trying to bring to our attention is that extraordinary truth from Jesus own lips , that we may receive imortaslity through eating His flesh and drinking His blood, receiving His Spirit by faith on Him and the wonderful work of God transforming our mind to be like Jesus's mind as man amongst us. salvation is the bigest God's Miracle, by His Mercy and Jesus Faith as man and GOD's SON, when we accept Him as our personal savior and Master and Commander until the end of times and to die for ourselves and that He might live in us by His Spirit. men!
Lucifer was thrown out of heaven because he wanted to be God. Lucifer was God's right hand angel until he thought he could be God. Here are some of the verses that show where Lucifer was cast out of Heaven and on to the Earth where he (Lucifer) set up his kingdom.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
And in Luke chapter 10 verse 18 Jesus said I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ( Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven). Lucifer is Satan and Lucifer / Satan is the prince of this world. Jesus never called Satan the King of this world Jesus just called Satan / Lucifer a prince of this world.
Hi Dorothea These are the scripture then you decide I choose to let Gods Word speak for itself. In the Gospel of luke 4:6 The devil says to jesus Christ all this power and glory of them speaking of the kingdoms of the world will I give thee for that was delivered unto me. Carefully notice it does not says ownership it says ruler there is a major difference. Also in 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of those that believe not. Also Ephesians 6:12 for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers again notice power. Now in Genesis Gods arch enemy satan knew that God gave dominion and power to Adam and in Genesis 3 that dominion and power was handed to serpent [figure of speech magnifying his slyness] i.e. the devil by making them believe his lie so he stole the power and glory of creation from Adam because they believed His word instead of Gods Word. Meaning God said thou shalt surely die the serpent thou shalt not surely die. They died spiritually they lost there spiritual connection with God and power over His Creation. He DID NOT INHERIT THE POWER OF THE WORLD. Now with what Jesus Christ accomplished for the believer when born again that power has been bought back for us in Christ Jesus when we walk by the spirit. Ephesians 3: Now unto him that is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think according to the POWER that worketh in us.
Jesus did say, unless we are converted and become as little children we WILL NOT enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
So, if Psalms 82 or any other scripture was read to a child, how would the child understand it?
As adults we have a great tendency to complicate things, it's the way we are. We want to read between the lines, figure out what is really being said, etc.etc. Then we come up with various interpretations and theories of our own.which really takes us away from the real meaning of the word/scripture.
A child will really listen, and understand, what is stated in scripture better than many adults.
We need to humble ourselves moreand become more like children..I know that I do.
Thank you for that explanation brother Earl. I understand Luke 8:5-15 & can even understand your explanation of it. However, in the parable, Jesus uses the 'seed' as an illustration of God's Word being planted into various heart types. It's not used as God being planted/fallen by the wayside/etc. in their hearts. Even though the seed represents God's Word, if we interpret it as God being planted & therefore the Spirit being planted, then we corrupt the meaning & intent of that parable.
If we then allow that type of interpretation to continue, so many passages, such as Isaiah 41:8, "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend", might just compel one to think of the "seed of Abraham" to mean 'God's Word/God/a multiplication of gods, instead of simply Abraham's progeny. Even in evangelism, the evangelist shares/scatters the seed over different hearts. He does not scatter God or the Holy Spirit - I believe there must be a distinction, or else the meaning becomes clouded or lost.
1 Peter 1:23: here again, the Word is that the believers were born again by incorruptible seed (God's Word) as opposed to the corruptible traditions that were first delivered by their fathers (v 18) that could not give a new birth. We might agree with that one but I would disagree with: "When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God." Our spirit never becomes God; our spirits are renewed by the Holy Spirit (born again) & we bear the Image of God, but whether on Earth or depart from it, our spirits don't become God. And this belief then impacts how you understand Psalm 82. As I've already given my understanding of this Psalm in this thread to Samuel, I won't repeat it, except to state that I disagree in toto with your understanding of it; i.e. it is not prophetical at all, rather a warning to the rulers & judges, to which Jesus also inferred in John 10:34.
Earl with all due respect you take a lot of things out of context of usage, I believe Gods word as originally given was perfect that being said he meant what he said where he said it how he said it to whom he said it when he said it and why he said it, the treasure chest is so big because it is the knowledge of God. Remember you said the spirit reveals, the bible was written by men with the spirit, that's the guide. To quote Jesus Christ thy word is truth. God Bless
Before I ever knew of this website or read any comments Alex had written, the Spirit had already revealed to me that the Word (God) is SEED and Seed ALWAYS produces SEED just like the SEED it came from.
Wheat seed produces wheat seed, corn seed produces corn seed, no matter what seed is planted it ALWAYS produces the same seed that was planted.
Luke 8:13 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the Word of God.
I know you believe the WORD is GOD; therefore GOD is SEED, GOD is SPIRIT; therefore SEED is SPIRIT, the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is the WORD, the SPIRIT and ALSO the SEED.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED (flesh), but of incorruptible SEED (SPIRIT), by the Word of God (Spirit of God, Seed of God), which (the Seed, the Spirit, the Word) liveth and abideth forever.
When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God.
As for Psalms 82 It is the Word. It is prophecy.
Psalms 83:1 God (the Word) standeth in the congregation (those that receive the Word) of the mighty; he (the Word) judgeth among the gods (gods that are flesh and gods that are born again SPIRIT; first; you bear the flesh, then the Spirit).
Psalms 82:2 How long (God, the Word) will you judge unjustly (we see no justice right now), and accept the persons of the wicked?
Psalms 82:3 (God, the Word) defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflected and needy.
Psalms 82:4 (God, the Word) deliver the poor and needy: (God, the Word) rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 82:5 They (gods of this world) know not, neither do they understand; they walk in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psalms 82:6 I (God, the word) have said (and my WORDS will not return unto me void) YE ARE GODS; the children of the most high.
But ye shall die like men (flesh, and ONLY the SPIRIT will remain), and fall like one of the princes (of this world).
Thank you Alex & no offence taken at all. So what you're saying is that if Psalm 82 & John 10 have the expression, "ye are gods", then in your mind it doesn't matter what the subject matter is around that phrase. So if it speaks about judges or of wrong judgement being given out, then all that information is irrelevant as everything has to come back to the parable of the sower, seeds, etc.? Are you not able to see that this makes the Bible totally useless to everyone (of course, except to a few as yourself, who can see through the whole account & dig up an 'inner or deeper' meaning?).
Rather than to pursue such strange reasoning of the Scriptures, I would ask you, how did you learn to interpret the Bible in such a manner? Does your Fellowship teach this or did you learn this from some other source? I was interested enough to try & Google such beliefs/interpretations, but nothing came up, so I figured that this must be something specific to certain individuals. Even the variety of Fellowships I've attended (from high Churches to closed brethren to pentecostal), I've never heard of the Scriptures being interpreted as you've suggested. So, I'm genuinely interested to learn how you have acquired this 'knowledge'. If you feel my questions are too personal, then I will understand if don't wish to answer them, but I truly remain perplexed about this. GBU.
GM Chris GBU But you do greatly err on Psalms 82 ITS prophetic of the Parable of the Sower and his seed the Words Jesus is saying to humanity And to whom His Words came ( his Seeds ) it made them Gods And John 10 is saying to whom the word came that good seed it made them Gods and Jesus said those scriptures cannot be broken. The parable of the sower and his precious seed are exactly the same as Psalms 82 ( THE WORDS GOD HAS SAID ) I HAVE SAID YE ARE GODS AND THE SEEDS OF THE SOWER ARE THE WORDS OF GOD. But you will die as men John said when i saw him i fell at his feet as dead. When God made that great PROMISE that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven God swore by himself impling he himself was gonna be multiplied as the stars of heaven thats y Jesus is saying to whom the WORD ( the seed of the Sower came it made them Gods ) Chris and there are not any lower case or upper case in Hebrews when God said ye are Gods its simply the result of the sower and his seed the LIVING WORD AS MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. AS GOD IS SPIRIT. And is any man hears my words and keeps them ( those good seeds ) my Father and I will come and take our abode with him. Then a Marriage where we will be made 1 with God.
GM Chris GBU no offence but you you do greatly err . Psalms 82 is about something God is saying I have said ye are Gods ( there are no upper case or lower case in Hebrew ) Its Prophetic of the parable of the sower and his seed the word which is something Jesus is saying his Words are his Seeds and our Lord Said to whom the Word came as it made them Gods .1 John says the WORD IS GOD. Whatsoever a man sows that will he reap and Jesus is sowing the very seed of God thus he willl reap Gods that was the Great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the Stars of Heaven and here is the Kicker God swore by his very self when he made that great Promise thus its God himself that wants a posterity Christ was just the 1st born of many brethren and Jesus is the sower of the good seed thus he will be Multiplied as the stars of Heaven. Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G as the Promise he is the multiplication of Gods in humanity, THE PROMISE WHICH IS GOD, VIA HIS SEED THE WORD. SOMETHING JESUS IS SAYING his parable ( I have said, his seeds ye are Gods. Remember Jesus made clay of his spittle ( his Word and the earth humanity ) A marriage, even in the natural in a marriage 2 are made 1 ,we are gonna be made 1 with God b/c of his precious seed the living WORD Jesus even tells us if any man hears my words and keeps them my FATHER AND I WILL come and take our abode with him . We are gonna birth a Baby Christ which is the H.G. the Child of Promise ,Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT AS GOD IS SPIRIT TH H.G. OUR NEW INNERMAN. Chris Jesus is sowing the very seeds of God and he will not have a crop failure,My words cannot return unto me void. Unto us a CHILD IS BORN. AND UNLESS YOU RECEIVE THE kINGDOM OF GOD AS A LIL CHILD ETC
Hello Samuel. Psalm 82 is a clear condemnation to the unjust judges of Israel & their rulers. Where we see "gods" in verses 1 & 6, in Hebrew it is 'Elohim', otherwise rendered as god, divines, judges & rulers. In this Psalm, 'gods' clearly refers to judges who judged unjustly (vv 2-5) & would therefore hear their Judge (the LORD) pronounce their verdict of death (vv 6,7).
Jesus, in John 10:34 quotes this Psalm. You might remember the occasion: the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus for blasphemy (i.e. they believed that Jesus was a mere man & not on equal terms with God). Then Jesus responded to them: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" As it was in Psalm 82, so the same condemnation is given by Jesus here, to these Jews who came 'upholding the Law & determining whether a man be condemned or not'. As God condemned those unjust judges in the Psalm, so Jesus is telling them that if they are in a position of being His judge now, why should they condemn Him for being the Son of God, One Who did God's Works in the Name & Power of God Almighty? ( John 10:34-38).
I share this extra bit on John 10 to give the connection with Psalm 82, as Jesus referred to it, that the Elohim spoken of there, applied even now, as these Jewish leaders behaved no differently to those judges in the Psalm, who judged unjustly & not with righteous judgement. And because of their responsible position, judges, society leaders & spiritual leaders who behave wickedly will receive the greater condemnation ( Matthew 23:14,23).
SeekTruthnotchurchleaders on Psalms 82:6 - 3 years ago
CLEARLY we must take scripture at its word,not what your pasture tells you it says. Not what your dad and uncle think it says.Scripture defines Scripture, hence try reading this passage as to people it was written to. It was written to ISRAELITE S OF THE 12 TRIBES during the time before the CHRIST would come. NOT written to 21 century people, yes it is written for our benefit and our admiration. It was not written to you meanwhile it was written for you. READ THIS IN A HEBREW TRANSLATION next to your favorite version of scripture. DO A HEBREW WORD STUDY AND YOU WILL SEE THIS IN NEW LIGHT! THE MOST HIGH ( CREATED other supernatural beings like him) is sitting on his throne with heavenly council around him. THE OLD TESTAMENT CLEARLY SAYS prior in scripture like GEN 6.1-5 THAT SONS OF GOD were supernatural beings ( SPIRITS LIKE GOD) but they were gods because the FATHER HAD SONS before humans and a family of beings he created before humans....look up the hebrew word for gods ( elohim) the same translation for a god. Ancient men and woman thought different then you and me . JEWS new thier were other gods they saw them worshiped all around them on every border. THIERS ONE CREATOR GOD, who created everything, even other gods.JESUS IS THAT
Psalm 82 seems very plain to understand. Who are the "mighty" & who are the "gods" (v 1)?
The answer is clearly given in the succeeding verses: they are the unjust judges, who as 'gods', have been given the authority to administer justice as the One & Holy God does. But these 'gods' will "shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." (v 7) because of their wickedness in administering justice.
The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and is not of any private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20).
The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unot him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ON the other hand, he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man ( 1 Cor. 2:14,15).
The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).
Only through 'True Repentance' will God be able to reveal Himself, and adopt you as His sons and daughters ( Rom. 8:15,23; 2 Cor.6:18; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5; Hebr. 12:5; 1 John 3:1).
The word 'Repent' means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind.
For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9), and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( John 14:17).
You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).
I've sat here and read just about everyone comment concerning 82. 1st May I ask of how many of you just up a casted down any thought of there being other gods? How many of you truly went to our Father himself and asked for interpretation of this and waited for the Lord to give it to you? Lastly have most of you studied out some of the more convincing arguments conflicting of yours? I have to say I have many years in this area and I'm going to leave all of you with this. Ask and you shall be giving seek and you shall find knock band it will be opened into you. As much as all of you want to be right can you accept the answer he may give you if you are wrong? That seems to be the appropriate question.. if you already have the answer made up yourself it's pointless to ask. The holy spirit is a gentleman he won't force himself on you. Unfortunately only a 3rd of you will even understand what I'm saying. The "I know I'm rights, no need to ask" well I pray for the blinders to be removed before it's to late.
Well said PM ; the point is that God has given his authority to those who rule & HE has raised them up to do good & to be just v. 3 & 4 ; Judges/Rulers forget at their peril WHO it is that really gave them authority so in spite of v.6 , Judges/Rulers would do well to remember v. 7 & 8 ...verses 1 & 2 provide us with the context. We therefore as subjects of whichever society we are a part of should obey authority & commit our obedience to God to judge righteously .
Part 3: In Job 1:6 the angels sons of God were congregating, along with Satan and his angels. We know it was off-world by the language used visiting Earth, up and down it, etc as angels are only beings capable of interstellar travel not men. Also read Luke 10:18 "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" which ties-in verse 7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes".
Part 2: The second verdict is that a GOD Jesus Christ? is appointed to Arise and judge the Earth, and will inherit all nations. Side note: This type of celestial court where angelic beings congregate is eluded to several times in the Bible. Most notably was in Job when Satan and his angels where called to present themselves before the LORD. Part 3 coming next...
I see no reason to dispute that.
Whenever it was that they rebelled against The Most High, it seems that they are still on the job of deceiving the nations.
Please come quickly Lord Jesus! And soon!
My question specifically would be WHEN these angels fell. The story of the watchers is in extrabiblical literature. I would tend more to think that they were part of the spiritual order and society that existed sometime AFTER Lucifer fell and took the angels with him; which clearly happened BEFORE Adam fell after the serpent incident in Genesis. The period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 where the ORIGINAL creation occurred and then in verse 2 it was void and in a chaotic state probably was when there was an original flood or disaster in the earth because of the trade with violence; etc mentioned in Ezekiel 28.
Satan himself has been given the role as a usurper; temporarily squatting as it were on territory that originally was to be under God's total rule and delegated to man in the garden to take care of. Apparently it is in the Divine plan to allow him and his henchmen to control nations and regions concurrently and to ultimately bring about the Messiah and end in Armageddon where the appointed time and judgment occurs.
As for reasoning here it is likely to test men; to see if they will follow their own judgments and imaginations and continue therefore in spiritual blindness or believe through a supernatural move of the Spirit the Gospel truth which is revealed only to those predetermined in His plan ( Deut 29:29). Overcoming therefore is the flesh; world and the Devil; all three are conquered through Christ's atonement. Some things in the interim before Christ comes back are delegated to the church in this time period and to those of faith previous to that and in the Tribulation. Prayer is a major key in holding back evil and the Lord temporarily holds back judgment until the fullness of times; as Romans states regarding the Gentiles.
So I'd say "watchers" fell before Eden
Those lesser gods, (because there is only ONE Most High God), did not fulfill their purpose in protecting and preserving the knowledge of the one true God and leading men back to Himself. But rebelled instead, by leading the people of the nations into idolatry and the worship of themselves. Thereby forcing God to judge and condemn them to die like men.
It is those Elohim that God is speaking to in Psalm 82. Not human judges or rulers.
That is my opinion which is based upon the teachings of the late and highly respected biblical scholar Dr. Michael S Heiser.
"Dr. Heiser attained an MA in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania, and an MA and PhD in the Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he minored in Classical studies. Dr. Heiser received his Bachelor's degree from Bob Jones University and also attended Bible college for three years."
"To send these two female spirits that were with him from the beginning..."
GOD, the LORD JESUS CHRIST to give us all discernment to rightly divide HIS word. 2 Timothy 2:15
Thank you.
July 2, 2023
Yes. The context reveals the intent and the identity of whom this judgment is about.
Before reading this any further, I request that anyone reading this would ask in the name of Jahshua for his God, Jah, To send these two female spirits that were with him from the beginning fo righteous discernment; to try the spirits for a revelation of truth, by praying for knowledge.
[ "Lack of knowledge is killing my people." (Hosea) Call Wisdom your sister and Understanding your kinswoman [ " I was his daily delight in the beginning" ])
Context with meditation is the key In this Psalm for knowledge.
God/Jah is there with the Angels and he is judging them.
In Hebrew the Angels are defined as: "mighty ones": in scripture Jah is the mighty of David. & etc...
These gods/angels/mighty have become Apostate/Rouge against Jah.
Unlike the faithful Angels/mighty ones, they became worshiped by the people called Heathens/Pagans/Gentiles.
We are also clued in that these are Angels by a verse later on that these eternal beings shall die the same as man, who lost his eternal life by the eating of the forbidden fruit in his garden of Paradise on Earth, to the"East of" Eden.
They are worshiped by men and have another WAY/Religion which pleases their god/Angel. Their doctrines are in error of the WAY of Jah.
In his judgment of them, Jah presents evidence of his WAY, THAT IS NOT part of their judgment & doctrines of their way;
To defend the poor and fatherless.
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(To) rid out of the hand of the wicked.
They walk in darkness because their way is in error causing the entire society(world) of the Earth's foundation of the way of Jah to go a different direction than Jah intended for mankind, that will cause Jah to judge the Earth.
Jah is speaking to the Angels, their father Jah created them, they are his children
There is a notion these days that states that the Bible call us "little gods" and this Psalm is their evidence for that assumption.
The scriptures use this term to describe those judges or teachers of the law who were learned in the Torah but as this chapter points out judged for hypocricy.
Verse 3 shows a theme which is echoed in 1 Tim. 5 starting in verse 3; as well as James 1:27 which also refers to widows and orphans as to the definition of "true religion."
Verse 6 seems to suggest that these are all children of God; of the Most High. However; the context of most of this Psalm seems to suggest partiality to the wicked and therefore going against God's ordinances. This was a type of Pharasitical behavior that characterized those who would not escape the damnation of hell as quoted in Matthew 23:33. In one sense; of course all those in Israel of noble lineage could follow their family tree to prove that they were sons of Abraham. But again; not all were true children ( Romans 9:7). In one sense we were all created in God's image; more precisely now in the image of Adam. We were all put in the book of the living ( Psalm 69:28). That is different from the Book of Life; clearly. Perhaps the meaning remains ambiguous; the nation of Israel were chosen as a whole but only a remnant truly believed.
The Psalm is generally a call for men to be wise judges; but also ends with God being implored to act (verse 8). In any event every knee will bow someday to God and to His Christ (as quoted in Philippians AND Romans but also from God being represented in Isaiah 45:23).
God also allows wicked judgments to accomplish His purposes in the end; refining His people for instance.
This ONE DAY, a day called TODAY has been going on now for two thousand years.
Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day (of the Lord), that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
We are somewhere inside the hours of that day now and the light is neither clear, nor dark.
Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time (the end of that day and the beginning of the next day) IT SHALL BE LIGHT.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are THE TEMPLE OF IT.
Revelation 21:23 And the city (you are the new Jerusalem), had no need of the sun, neither the moon, to shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Zechariah 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah FIRST, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of (new) Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matthew 27:53 And came put of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem, and appeared to many (as ministering spirits).
Zachariah 12:8 And in that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of (new) Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David (Christ); and the house of David (Christ) shall be as God, as (the image of) the angle of the LORD before them.
GBU
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, with my dead body shall they arise ......
GBU
In you comment, you said Christ would raise them up the last day.
Manuel, the ones that God gave to Christ to be priest in the kingdom were resurrected with Christ.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power, but they shall shall be priest of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When you depart this flesh, in the twinkle of an eye you will put on immortality, and reign with Christ.
This ONE DAY (as a thousand years) began on penecost, when we could have the SEED indwell us. You WILL BE the exactness of Christ.
Luke 20:35 But they (the ones God gave to Christ) which shall be worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection of the dead .....
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore (you died on the cross): for they are equal unto the angels (you become a ministering spirit); and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.
GBU
The Bible teaches, that GOD can give Imortality to whom HE wiches, and Jesus said the He wil ressurect all who accept Him as GOD's SON, on the last day, when Jesus shall return in Glory to give His reward.
Jesus said :- Let the dead put the dead ones in the grave, you come and follow me
jesus teaches us who accept Him as the Begotten Son OF GOD, tha we wil have imortality, being like the angels of GOD. The diference is that only GOD is worthy of Adoration. The angel on apocalypse 19 .10 declined being adored saying to John that He should instead Adore only GOD. How Great Is GOD! He is LOVE and LIGHT and LIFE, it wil take us all eternity to know WHO GOD Is and stil, it's writen on the Bible that He IS Wonderfull and we can relate and love Him, but He wil remain Wonderful for ever and ever more eternaly. The point i'm trying to bring to our attention is that extraordinary truth from Jesus own lips , that we may receive imortaslity through eating His flesh and drinking His blood, receiving His Spirit by faith on Him and the wonderful work of God transforming our mind to be like Jesus's mind as man amongst us. salvation is the bigest God's Miracle, by His Mercy and Jesus Faith as man and GOD's SON, when we accept Him as our personal savior and Master and Commander until the end of times and to die for ourselves and that He might live in us by His Spirit. men!
Lucifer was thrown out of heaven because he wanted to be God. Lucifer was God's right hand angel until he thought he could be God. Here are some of the verses that show where Lucifer was cast out of Heaven and on to the Earth where he (Lucifer) set up his kingdom.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
And in Luke chapter 10 verse 18 Jesus said I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ( Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven). Lucifer is Satan and Lucifer / Satan is the prince of this world. Jesus never called Satan the King of this world Jesus just called Satan / Lucifer a prince of this world.
I hope this helps you understand
God Bless
Stay prayed up and ready to go up
Cowboy
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
So, if Psalms 82 or any other scripture was read to a child, how would the child understand it?
As adults we have a great tendency to complicate things, it's the way we are. We want to read between the lines, figure out what is really being said, etc.etc. Then we come up with various interpretations and theories of our own.which really takes us away from the real meaning of the word/scripture.
A child will really listen, and understand, what is stated in scripture better than many adults.
We need to humble ourselves moreand become more like children..I know that I do.
God Bless
If we then allow that type of interpretation to continue, so many passages, such as Isaiah 41:8, "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend", might just compel one to think of the "seed of Abraham" to mean 'God's Word/God/a multiplication of gods, instead of simply Abraham's progeny. Even in evangelism, the evangelist shares/scatters the seed over different hearts. He does not scatter God or the Holy Spirit - I believe there must be a distinction, or else the meaning becomes clouded or lost.
1 Peter 1:23: here again, the Word is that the believers were born again by incorruptible seed (God's Word) as opposed to the corruptible traditions that were first delivered by their fathers (v 18) that could not give a new birth. We might agree with that one but I would disagree with: "When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God." Our spirit never becomes God; our spirits are renewed by the Holy Spirit (born again) & we bear the Image of God, but whether on Earth or depart from it, our spirits don't become God. And this belief then impacts how you understand Psalm 82. As I've already given my understanding of this Psalm in this thread to Samuel, I won't repeat it, except to state that I disagree in toto with your understanding of it; i.e. it is not prophetical at all, rather a warning to the rulers & judges, to which Jesus also inferred in John 10:34.
I appreciate your contribution Earl.
Before I ever knew of this website or read any comments Alex had written, the Spirit had already revealed to me that the Word (God) is SEED and Seed ALWAYS produces SEED just like the SEED it came from.
Wheat seed produces wheat seed, corn seed produces corn seed, no matter what seed is planted it ALWAYS produces the same seed that was planted.
Luke 8:13 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the Word of God.
I know you believe the WORD is GOD; therefore GOD is SEED, GOD is SPIRIT; therefore SEED is SPIRIT, the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is the WORD, the SPIRIT and ALSO the SEED.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED (flesh), but of incorruptible SEED (SPIRIT), by the Word of God (Spirit of God, Seed of God), which (the Seed, the Spirit, the Word) liveth and abideth forever.
When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God.
As for Psalms 82 It is the Word. It is prophecy.
Psalms 83:1 God (the Word) standeth in the congregation (those that receive the Word) of the mighty; he (the Word) judgeth among the gods (gods that are flesh and gods that are born again SPIRIT; first; you bear the flesh, then the Spirit).
Psalms 82:2 How long (God, the Word) will you judge unjustly (we see no justice right now), and accept the persons of the wicked?
Psalms 82:3 (God, the Word) defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflected and needy.
Psalms 82:4 (God, the Word) deliver the poor and needy: (God, the Word) rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 82:5 They (gods of this world) know not, neither do they understand; they walk in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psalms 82:6 I (God, the word) have said (and my WORDS will not return unto me void) YE ARE GODS; the children of the most high.
But ye shall die like men (flesh, and ONLY the SPIRIT will remain), and fall like one of the princes (of this world).
Rather than to pursue such strange reasoning of the Scriptures, I would ask you, how did you learn to interpret the Bible in such a manner? Does your Fellowship teach this or did you learn this from some other source? I was interested enough to try & Google such beliefs/interpretations, but nothing came up, so I figured that this must be something specific to certain individuals. Even the variety of Fellowships I've attended (from high Churches to closed brethren to pentecostal), I've never heard of the Scriptures being interpreted as you've suggested. So, I'm genuinely interested to learn how you have acquired this 'knowledge'. If you feel my questions are too personal, then I will understand if don't wish to answer them, but I truly remain perplexed about this. GBU.
Jesus, in John 10:34 quotes this Psalm. You might remember the occasion: the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus for blasphemy (i.e. they believed that Jesus was a mere man & not on equal terms with God). Then Jesus responded to them: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" As it was in Psalm 82, so the same condemnation is given by Jesus here, to these Jews who came 'upholding the Law & determining whether a man be condemned or not'. As God condemned those unjust judges in the Psalm, so Jesus is telling them that if they are in a position of being His judge now, why should they condemn Him for being the Son of God, One Who did God's Works in the Name & Power of God Almighty? ( John 10:34-38).
I share this extra bit on John 10 to give the connection with Psalm 82, as Jesus referred to it, that the Elohim spoken of there, applied even now, as these Jewish leaders behaved no differently to those judges in the Psalm, who judged unjustly & not with righteous judgement. And because of their responsible position, judges, society leaders & spiritual leaders who behave wickedly will receive the greater condemnation ( Matthew 23:14,23).
The answer is clearly given in the succeeding verses: they are the unjust judges, who as 'gods', have been given the authority to administer justice as the One & Holy God does. But these 'gods' will "shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." (v 7) because of their wickedness in administering justice.
What are you seeing here?
The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unot him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ON the other hand, he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man ( 1 Cor. 2:14,15).
The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).
Only through 'True Repentance' will God be able to reveal Himself, and adopt you as His sons and daughters ( Rom. 8:15,23; 2 Cor.6:18; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5; Hebr. 12:5; 1 John 3:1).
The word 'Repent' means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind.
For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9), and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( John 14:17).
You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).