There is some debate as to whether the authorship should be stated as "of" Solomon or to him.
The beginning of the Psalm (first four verses) are descriptive of the earth with God's judgments for the people; focusing on the poor and needy; and how it is throughout the earth.
Verse 5 shows how at least through the Millennium reign the sun and moon endure. Isaiah 60 seems to suggest in verse 20 that it may last forever; whether the need of the sun and moon to see God in heaven is necessary or it doesn't exist in the new earth and heaven is conjecture beyond the scope of this study. ( Rev. 21:23).
Verse 8 shows His dominion throughout the earth in the Millennium and verse 10 repeats how the wealth of the nations will go to Him when they worship in Jerusalem every year. ( Zech. 14:16; Rev. 21:26; Isaiah 60:3.
Verse 15 to me is somewhat mysterious that prayer would be made FOR Christ when He returns. Could this mean entreating God for Him to receive greater earthly wealth; or something to that effect?
Verse 17 once again discusses His name continuing as long as the sun; again it seems that perhaps with a new heaven and earth the sun will last forever too.
It would seem at the end that David did write this (I should have read that in the beginning).
At any rate; once again we see future blessings for God's people and the nation of Israel once the fullness of its Covenant promises are realized; and they finally recognize their Messiah.
A clear millennial psalm. We have Christ ruling and reigning as designated in the authority of God in the first four verses. As long as the sun and moon endure His fear shall be throughout all generations; which would exemplify the physical offspring that will continue until the end of the 1000 years. (As a side note; even after that period it is said that there is no NEED for the sun and moon-whether they are restored as some eternally lasting form of what they currently are is up for debate in the end of Revelation). The righteous enduring and "abundance of peace" in verse 7 once again is shown to last "as long as the moon endureth." Verse 8 about dominion from sea to sea again; would terminate after there is "no more sea" according to Revelation 22. The next few verses show submission of the kings of the earth and presents being brought in where the Messiah reigns. Delivering the poor and needy; once again is something not needed after the eternal Kingdom comes into place; nor delivering their souls from "deceit and violence" (v. 14). The verse about "prayer for him" in verse 15 seems a bit odd. It probably corresponds with the praising of Him; in asking that, perhaps others who are coruling under His authority will be found to be a blessing to whom He can delegate responsibility. It is interesting to note that as far as I can tell no one prayed for Christ anywhere in scripture even when He endured His fateful hour of death. He certainly prayed to God and now intercedes for us in heaven. Fruitfullness is indicated in verse 16; and of course verse 17 indicates that His name shall be continued as long as the sun. Certainly for all eternity beyond the 1000 years He will continue to retain this status; as to the sun enduring; other verses in Psalms seem to indicate perhaps it will. ( Psalm 72:17)-etc.
B beautiful sermon love every bit of psalm s , i love reading and studing gods forever living and loving word to pray for me to succeed and bether and to put the kingdom first in be jesus name aman
Thank you again Bro. Dan for your comments. And I agree that this discussion is not only beneficial to us & others but also very important in how we see ourselves before God & how God looks at us in Christ. In my understanding of the Scriptures, the Law & the Grace of God through His Son are clearly opposed to each other: "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Gal 2:21. That is, the given Law of old could never make a person righteous before God, thus any obedience to it to justify our standing or even to 'please' God in our efforts or satisfy our consciences, will always fail.
Rather than rehash earlier presentations of my understanding, if I might direct you to a Site that I feel would more fully explain what I'm trying to write here in such a small space. As well, I would hope that the others (including Richard, Dibro & We don't need the 10 Commandments) who kindly offered their views would also take time to go through it. I thank them also for submitting their thoughts on this matter & apologize for not replying to each one. I know it's better etiquette to respond from one's heart & to each one who has taken the trouble to write, but I feel this Site will explain the matter more fully & make this already long thread on KJBO not more cumbersome.
If Trent would allow my submitting this external Site, I would appreciate it.
gci dot org/articles/should Christians keep the law of moses what about the ten commandments
(you may need to reinsert these details in their Search Box).
Blessings to you brother & to the other dear ones.
Great reply brother. I don't find your examples strange at all. They are perfect. Just as you stated that there are countless things that go on in our everyday lives. That the Ten Commandments may not shed light on. As bringing up examples or "parables", just as Jesus did, helps people understand which way is the right way. It truly is a help to other people that may not understand things in the Bible.
One thing I wanted to share with you is last night it came to me to check a couple passages and put them to the Ten Commandments. In Mark 7:21-23 where Jesus is teaching about evil thoughts from within that "defile a person". The other is Galatians 5:19-23 where Paul states of the "works of the flesh" and "fruit if the Holy Spirit". With these two lists you can match up all the Ten Commandments. The seven of things to veer away from and the three things that God wants us to do. Just looking at those two list there is much more detailed information of things to repent from and things to seek after or focus on. Like you stated about many examples, there still are more things than just those written. Also just another guideline, to help us, from the Lord.
It is so true that we will be faced with things, in this life, that no person has spoken of. Or is written about. It is also true that not everyone is to be Blessed to receive the Holy Spirit in this life. As the Comforter and teacher for us from the Lord. I still believe God to be in all of us as He knows everything about everyone. It is truly a great treasure, and gift, to have the Spirit of Christ reside in us. A wonderful teaching, as all are, of Jesus Christ is Luke 6:27-38. Also the simple but "golden" rule of "Do unto others as you would want them to do to you."
Hope you have a great weekend Chris. God Bless my brother.
We don39t need the 10 Commandments - In Reply on Psalms 72 - 3 years ago
Chris,
The Law was never set up to be followed by man perfectly. That is why atonement (through blood sacrifice) was introduced with and as a part of the Law.
The Law was established as guidelines for proper worship and proper living.
Paul taught in the Synagogues on the Sabbath well after Christ had died.
Peter observed Old Testament Health Laws well after Christ died.
Why would they still be following those Old Testament Laws if ALL LAW was fulfilled through the Grace of Jesus which was based upon His death on the cross?
Jesus is the only Person to have fulfilled ALL the requirements of the Law while He walked upon the earth.
The rest of us cannot!
The 10 Commandments, including the 4th Commandment, were made for man, "for all time."
At this point, you stated that you and I may not be making much headway in our discussion regarding the keeping of the 10 Commandments. I believe our discussion may still be beneficial to us, in ways that we may not realize at the moment. Also, it is possible others on this site may benefit from our discussion regarding this important issue.
I realize there is a large following of people/churches including antinomians, that attribute some of the apostle Paul's teachings to lessening or even more drastically eliminating the need to follow the 10 Commandments.
I hold the apostle Paul, as well as all of the other apostles that where chosen by Jesus in high esteem, but we should also acknowledge they were humans with the same weakness's as we have. Jesus is Perfect, and if there is a question such as we are discussing regarding the 10 Commandments, I will put my trust in following what Jesus said regarding this issue.
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
If believe, if we argue against keeping the commandments we argue with Jesus, I'm not willing to do that...ever.
Please consider the following, as you refuse to accept God's 'Life' giving message ( John 18:37; Hebrews 12:25).
God unites His people (the believers) by His Spirit ( John 4:24; Eph. 4:3-6,13).
Luke 9:56. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.
Matthew 11:6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me ( Isa. 8:14; Matthew 13:57; 24:10; 26:31; Rom. 9:32; 1 Cor. 1:23; 2:14; Gal. 5:11; 1 Peter 2:8).
John 3:19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Luke 11:22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
1 John 4:4-6. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he than is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice ( John 8:47; 18:37).
You search the scriptures for in them ye think that ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life ( John 5:39,40).
He that is spiritual judgeth (discerneth) all things, yet he himself is judged by no man ( 1 Cor. 2:15).
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true ( Proverbs 1:7; 10:8,21; 12:15; 13:20; 14:9; 16:22; 18:2; 20:3; 29:11; Luke 18:10-14; Cor. 1:20; 2:14; 15:36).
We regret that you are not able to understand any of the above ( 1 Cor. 2:14; 2 Cor. 7:10). Notwithstanding: Seek and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
Don't let your self-righteousness stand in the way of your salvation ( Romans 10:2-4).
The Ten Commandments apply today. The (just) are free from their condemnation. (2nd death)
God's (Moral Law) make the arrest
The Gospel sets us free.
Matt. 10:14 (example) Many trample the pearl of grace. Until they see God as a righteous judge,
For them Gods law commands their attention.
Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known & come to light.
Have you ever lied? hated? Lusted? Stole anything? Had sex out side of marriage. Wild imaginations?
What do you call someone who lies? What do you call someone who steals? What is someone called who uses Gods name as a cuss word?
Let's be legalistic. An empty stomach lust for food. Is that sin? Of course not. But
Jesus said whoever looks at another with lust (seizing them with wild imaginations) has already committed adultery with that person in their heart. Forget others, You're in big trouble.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, & unbelieving, & the abominable, & murderers, & whoremongers, & sorcerers,& idolaters, and ((all liars)) shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now back to court....
Telling an honest judge in a court of law you're sorry won't set you free
and you can bet it won't work when we're summoned to stand the living God either.
The wage for our sin must be paid. ((Death))
The bible speaks of only two types of people.
The just and the unjust.
At our judgment reward will be given & taken away.
But God will throw the book at the unjust. (second death)
1 Cor. 15:1-4 Salvation in a nutshell
Acts 17:30-31 God calls all people to repent (turn from unbelief) & warns Christ will (Judge) the world!
Praise God earth is not home of those justified by the finished work of the cross!
The "Just" have been justified by the blood of the Lamb. We have confidence!
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have ((boldness)) in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world!
Renee is SO right - EVERYTHING is the Lord's...it -earth and world - owes its existence and sustenance to Him. The rightful ownership of man IS GOD. What arrogant folly and eternal doom that man, in his God given gift of free will, does not accept this reality. And what comfort and eternal blessing belongs to those who have accepted The Truth of the King of Glory.
Thank you for sharing that Richard. I do agree that the Ten Commandments "are a good & a simple guideline for us" & I think, probably for a new believer who is learning about God & His general requirements, they do give some help & boundaries to work in.
But how do those Commandments apply to a Spirit filled believer who is subjected to all types of intrusions into his life that demand a decision or a choice that is not covered in the Decalogue. We could give many examples of this, but to give a couple: a brother is brought into a difficult frustrating situation & his immediate response is to utter an expletive in disgust. Does the Decalogue cover this sin? If the brother relied on it for identifying sin(s), then he could comfort himself that that behaviour is fine before God since it isn't mentioned. But if he is troubled by that outburst & repents, what warrant does he appeal to for his act of contrition? There are some believers that are amongst us who think nothing at all to use 'flowery language'.
Or, going to the grocery store, seeing some grapes on sale at a good price, but are they sweet? Why not try a couple & then make a purchase. After all this is not stealing as the Decalogue warns about stealing - it's only tasting a couple of grapes & surely that can't be stealing. Again, I've seen believers who think nothing about doing this - Why? - because it's not seen as stealing as per the Commandment. Why don't I do it? My warrant for not doing so is not found in the Decalogue.
The above examples might appear strange, but I think, relevant for those appealing to the Ten Commandments as a set of Laws to abide by. It was necessary for Israel, including the myriad of other laws that were given them, but for those who have the indwelling Spirit, of what significance can they now hold? Aren't the Words of the Spirit to our hearts, His convicting, His directing, His pleading, of greater worth than those Laws engraven in stone that only led to death & not Life?
I very much agree with what you are portraying brother. What I feel is that the Ten Commandments are good a, simple, guideline for us. Of coarse we have all already sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. Jesus Christ is our one and only saviour sent by our Father. Even though we will still probably all make mistakes it seems good to me to have some good guidelines to at least go by in the evil world we live in. To make our Father happy as surely none of them are bad things or that we can't easily fulfill by just using a bit of self control. Still as I can say a parable where one would have to choose between disobeying a Commandment or following the Will of God. How we need the Holy Spirit gifted to us as our teacher. Just as you said though. Our Fathers love is so great in that He has already given the perfect sacrifice for all sins. Also as said it is all of a power not of my own. Something else that makes our Father happy is producing good fruit of the Holy Spirit. As I'm sure there are much better people in the world, than me, that have done many more good things. I take no credit for anything good I've ever done. I am forever thankful. Glory be to our Father.
As praying for everyone feels right. The people who do right and them that do wrong. As the Lord has taught me to love all. As in Luke 6:35 :"for He(our Father) is kind unto the unthankful and the evil." Praise the Lord Jesus Christ and our Perfect Father! God Bless you brother.
Hi Richard. Thank you for what you've shared. The point I'm making is that the believer in Christ has to get away from resorting to the Ten Commandments: they're part of the Law given to Israel & served only to show them how to live & how far short they fell from obeying them. This ought to have compelled them to not rely on that yearly sacrifice for sins with all the other sacrifices, the Scape Goat & many feasts & ceremonies, but to look beyond to the time when God would offer His Own Sacrifice, once & for all, that could only satisfy God & be the means of a final perfect redemption for mankind. What Israel performed back then was a picture of what would come in the future. They should have heeded the prophetical writings directing them to a future Human Sacrifice that would fully deal with their sins rather than looking for a nation-conquering Messiah. So the Son of God, the Sacrifice of God came, but they rejected Him putting Him to death as He failed (in their reckoning) to give them victory over Rome. Yet He brought them much needed spiritual victory which they rejected.
The Ten Commandments were never intended to be a list to be ticked through in the margin. To do that could make us, or a new believer, smug & satisfied that we are in right standing with God. Didn't the rich young ruler also believe that he had 'made it'? ( Mark 10:17-22). Jesus virtually told him that he failed in the very first commandment. The Law was a revelation of God's Standard for His people & to alert them to their incapability to wholly maintain that Standard. Where does that leave us now if we still resort to it when our Saviour has fulfilled all its demands, nailing it to the Cross, thereby giving all those who come in faith in the shed Blood, forgiveness & liberty only through Him? Do we not do despite to His Love & His Gift, to cleave to that which only revealed the sin in us thus giving us separation from God & eternal death?
The Law was given for a time & purpose - Jesus, by His coming & sacrifice, concluded (fulfilled) that 'time & purpose' thereby relieving us (read: Jews) from the bindings of the Law which only brought death. He said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jn 10:10b. Surely this abundant life includes both the release from the burden of guilt & sin and also the bindings & burdens of the Law which proved that sin & only brought death.
And lest you feel that my belief & stance is antinomian, please don't, as we haven't yet come to the discussion on Romans 8:2. And this I see as the key verse, along with much of Paul's writings on the weakness & finality of the Law in view of Christ's worth; and this has a direct bearing on believers who need to be released from the "weakness" of the Law to the "Power" of the Law that comes from & through the Holy Spirit. I would look forward to this discussion, if you wish to proceed. The Lord be with you (& us) in our meditations on our Saviour's great Sacrifice & spiritual freedom we can enjoy in Him.
Bro. Dan. I don't think that we're making much headway with this discussion. Looking at Matthew 5:17-19 (as you quoted): Indeed, Jesus came to fulfil the Law & the Prophets, that which was given to Israel & the prophecies about Himself. And true, "Heaven & Earth haven't passed away as yet". Yet, we continue to dwell on something that has already happened: that Jesus came in fulfilment of the prophecies & that He, and He alone, had fulfilled the very minutiae of the Law. So, in my understanding, the Law which was given by God for Israel's spiritual & societal well-being could not be kept fully by them but only showed them their constant, perpetual need for repentance & sacrifice. Jesus came of course, to give His Life for them (& us) as the only true & effective Sacrifice, and also to speak about Kingdom Life & what the full true meaning of God's Laws were, in comparison to what they performed or what the religious leaders taught. We see some of this from verse 20 onwards & elsewhere in His discourses.
So, if the Law was still current in the time of Christ (as it was indeed), at what time would it then be "fulfilled"? The Greek for this is: Genetai, meaning: 'happen or accomplished'. Did the given Law & Prophetical writings about Jesus find their finality at the appearing of Christ, or, as you may be suggesting, that there is yet a future time when (i.e. at the passing away of Heaven & Earth) the validity & requirements of the Law would eventually conclude? It is my belief that Jesus used that as an expression to signify the importance of the Law & its perpetual purity: this cannot change. But what changes is that by the coming of Jesus at the appointed time, He also brought about the fulfilment of that Law (in Himself - by Himself), so that mankind (Jew & Gentile) should have no more recourse to the Law (that only brought knowledge of sin & death - not life), but resorting to the Fulfiller of that Law & our cleaving to Him in love & obedience.
Hello Chris. I very much enjoy reading yours posts and agree. Jesus Christ truly is the only way. I was just conversing with a man the other night on this matter. As he seemed content we need to follow not just the Ten Commandments but all of the 613 Jewish laws. I posted, as brother Dan did, Matthew 22:36-40. Brother Dan you have Matthew 23 but you quoted the passages, from 22, perfectly. Just to note. As Jesus stated "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Which I believe are the most important things we should be focusing on which is Love. Of God, Christ, and one another. I also posted this passage: Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." This being written by Paul that of the fruit from the Holy Spirit, we receive, and flourish in, against such there is no law.
I also stated knowing the Ten Commandments by heart. It seems, after being saved by the Lord, that all these things are no longer a burden at all to follow. It seems to comes naturally from a power not of my own. All of the 613 Jewish laws? Now there is a problem. As it says people should be stoned to death and burned at the stake. Along with many other things I know the Lord does not condone.
Hopefully, my brothers, we can all just help one another through these peaceful conversations. We all need Jesus Christ as no one cometh unto the Father but by Him. John 14:6. God Bless
You are stating that Jesus did not speak about the cancelation of the Law because of his upcoming death and resurrection.
Yes he did speak about the Law, and Jesus knew that he was going to die for our sins and complete the plan and work of God, but he did not cancel the Law. On the contrary, he reinforced the law as stated by Christ below.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Jesus says "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." To me, this is the key that Jesus wants us to live according to God's law 10 Commandments. Until heaven and earth pass......this has not happened Yet, and until it happens the Law remains.....as stated by Jesus.
I believe that the Law/Ten Commandments provides us with the roadmap to live a good life here on earth, while also preparing us for God's great plan for us in the second life which will be for eternity.
Christ died on the cross for the worlds sins. His death provides the ransom for our sins. He became the new and only mediator between God and each of us. This is the "Good News".
When we live according to God's plan for us and we fall short/sin, (as each of us will) we now have Jesus Christ to confide in, and through Jesus Christ we can now receive forgiveness of our sins from God.
So in Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:17, Jesus was making it clear that the Law could never fail - what God had given stands true & firm in its purity & application for every life for every age. And indeed, Jesus' coming was to fulfil that Law (& the prophecies about Him). I see no problem here as all that He said did happen. Then back to my question: why then did Jesus have to die? Could not that Perfect Law have saved us, with maybe a touch of extra grace from God to carry us over the line? After all, we do love God with all our hearts & want to observe all that He has directed us to do; we just need a little more of His understanding & resulting pardon to give us the needed assurance & comfort. But if we have His pardon based only on His Son's death, what then could that Law given do for us? Could it have given us "Life"? No, it only brought condemnation & death. "Is the Law then against the Promises of God"? No, "for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." Gal 3:21.
As believers, saved by grace through faith, we can never resort to the Law, whether for some merit or to add to the saving work of Christ on the Cross. Jesus' death & resurrection cancelled out any claims or adherence to the Law, for "the Law is not of faith". Gal 3:12. Yes, the Law is good & perfect, but "the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did". And that hope was only Jesus Who was "made a surety of a better testament."
Bro. Dan. I understand what you're saying & it is true that Jesus did not speak about the cancellation of the given Law because of His (future) death & resurrection. The Law given then, as it is now, "is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Rom 7:12.
The problem with properly arguing such an important matter is that all Scripture has to be considered in its proper manner & not a dependence on just a few portions. Had the matter ended with Jesus' Words in the Gospels, then we would indeed be content with that & both Jew & Gentile converts would maintain strict observance of the Law & somehow after Christ's death, still rigidly attend to both it & Christ's Sacrifice as equally necessary to be acceptable to God. Is this how you understand the Scripture? Do you make any differentiation between the purpose of the Law & the need of God's Grace through His Son? If we had only the O.T. & the Gospels to show us how to live properly under the Law, then that is how we would be judged; and by all accounts, we would fail.
Since you quote solely from the Gospels to present your position, considering them is necessary. As stated earlier, Jesus did not speak about the annulling of the Law in the future but He did direct his hearers to what was correct & appropriate for that time. The Jews, still under the Law, were not obeying it as God purposed; Jesus had to give them the proper meaning, viz, the condition of the heart, relationship to non-Jews, money, divorce, Sabbath, justice, etc. etc. Jesus only spoke clearly to His disciples of his eventual sacrificial death, that which they hardly believed & accepted ( Mt 16:20-22), how much less trying to get them to understand the matter we are discussing now (of the New Covenant resulting from His Sacrifice); though He did refer to it in the Upper Room ( Luke 22:20).
I will disagree with much of your stated understanding of scripture, and your comment that you "not only would cancel the 4th commandment, but you would cancel all 10 commandments.
I will let Jesus answer the issue in regard to the 10 commandments:
Mathew 23:36-40 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Below Jesus himself answers the question of canceling the Law.
Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
If Jesus was going cancel the law and the commandments he would have said as much, as he had many chances to do so as stated above in these scriptures.
The other matter is about the forgetting of the sin. Just as a sinner leaves behind his sins 'at the foot of the Cross' & these are no longer held as a charge against him, yet he will always have memory of those past sins, but endeavour by the Spirit's Life in him not to pursue them again. Does God also forget our sins when He forgives? He does in the sense of never holding our past sins against us, but He knows that we are still sinners 'saved by His Grace' & indeed, He wouldn't be God if He could never recall our previous sinful life. Heb 10:17: "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Though this verse speaks about the time when those Jews would turn to Jesus for salvation instead of obedience to the Law & Sacrifices, it tells us that God will no longer remember their (& our) sins, or, that He will never bring them up against us: He has wiped our slate clean & we have been declared 'not guilty'.
Brian, I believe that the Christian's response to someone who has erred against you is not only based on his/her repentance to you of that error. It would be wonderful if that person would recognize his error & be humble enough to seek your forgiveness & restoration of the relationship: your forgiving him would be easy & comforting to both.
But if he/she did not come in repentance, & as you also suggest, not only that but also continued to sin against you, how should you & we respond? I believe that our forgiveness is based on what God has done for us in Christ: He has freely forgiven us & we should also do likewise. I realize that God requires our repentance first, but that means that He waits for our acknowledgement that we have sinned against Him & we are convicted & torn by our wickedness. He waits that we recognize that we can be forgiven only through faith in the finished work at the Cross & in nothing else.
So, our repentance must be essential for God's forgiveness to be given us. Whereas, our response to someone who has sinned against us doesn't necessarily require their repentance first, because our forgiving him/her is simply based on Christ's Love in us to forgive them unequivocally, whether or not he repents. This is the heart that is touched by the Holy Spirit: that we have the spirit of forgiveness to all.
There is some debate as to whether the authorship should be stated as "of" Solomon or to him.
The beginning of the Psalm (first four verses) are descriptive of the earth with God's judgments for the people; focusing on the poor and needy; and how it is throughout the earth.
Verse 5 shows how at least through the Millennium reign the sun and moon endure. Isaiah 60 seems to suggest in verse 20 that it may last forever; whether the need of the sun and moon to see God in heaven is necessary or it doesn't exist in the new earth and heaven is conjecture beyond the scope of this study. ( Rev. 21:23).
Verse 8 shows His dominion throughout the earth in the Millennium and verse 10 repeats how the wealth of the nations will go to Him when they worship in Jerusalem every year. ( Zech. 14:16; Rev. 21:26; Isaiah 60:3.
Verse 15 to me is somewhat mysterious that prayer would be made FOR Christ when He returns. Could this mean entreating God for Him to receive greater earthly wealth; or something to that effect?
Verse 17 once again discusses His name continuing as long as the sun; again it seems that perhaps with a new heaven and earth the sun will last forever too.
It would seem at the end that David did write this (I should have read that in the beginning).
At any rate; once again we see future blessings for God's people and the nation of Israel once the fullness of its Covenant promises are realized; and they finally recognize their Messiah.
God bless you and all you do.
When you can't trace His hand trust His heart.
Your JOY is a non negotiable ingredients for the fulfilment of your life and destiny. Make a choice for JOY!
Rather than rehash earlier presentations of my understanding, if I might direct you to a Site that I feel would more fully explain what I'm trying to write here in such a small space. As well, I would hope that the others (including Richard, Dibro & We don't need the 10 Commandments) who kindly offered their views would also take time to go through it. I thank them also for submitting their thoughts on this matter & apologize for not replying to each one. I know it's better etiquette to respond from one's heart & to each one who has taken the trouble to write, but I feel this Site will explain the matter more fully & make this already long thread on KJBO not more cumbersome.
If Trent would allow my submitting this external Site, I would appreciate it.
gci dot org/articles/should Christians keep the law of moses what about the ten commandments
(you may need to reinsert these details in their Search Box).
Blessings to you brother & to the other dear ones.
Right on!
Well presented.
The 10 Commandments are still fully in force.
One thing I wanted to share with you is last night it came to me to check a couple passages and put them to the Ten Commandments. In Mark 7:21-23 where Jesus is teaching about evil thoughts from within that "defile a person". The other is Galatians 5:19-23 where Paul states of the "works of the flesh" and "fruit if the Holy Spirit". With these two lists you can match up all the Ten Commandments. The seven of things to veer away from and the three things that God wants us to do. Just looking at those two list there is much more detailed information of things to repent from and things to seek after or focus on. Like you stated about many examples, there still are more things than just those written. Also just another guideline, to help us, from the Lord.
It is so true that we will be faced with things, in this life, that no person has spoken of. Or is written about. It is also true that not everyone is to be Blessed to receive the Holy Spirit in this life. As the Comforter and teacher for us from the Lord. I still believe God to be in all of us as He knows everything about everyone. It is truly a great treasure, and gift, to have the Spirit of Christ reside in us. A wonderful teaching, as all are, of Jesus Christ is Luke 6:27-38. Also the simple but "golden" rule of "Do unto others as you would want them to do to you."
Hope you have a great weekend Chris. God Bless my brother.
The Law was never set up to be followed by man perfectly. That is why atonement (through blood sacrifice) was introduced with and as a part of the Law.
The Law was established as guidelines for proper worship and proper living.
Paul taught in the Synagogues on the Sabbath well after Christ had died.
Peter observed Old Testament Health Laws well after Christ died.
Why would they still be following those Old Testament Laws if ALL LAW was fulfilled through the Grace of Jesus which was based upon His death on the cross?
Jesus is the only Person to have fulfilled ALL the requirements of the Law while He walked upon the earth.
The rest of us cannot!
The 10 Commandments, including the 4th Commandment, were made for man, "for all time."
Wouldn't that include the present time period?
At this point, you stated that you and I may not be making much headway in our discussion regarding the keeping of the 10 Commandments. I believe our discussion may still be beneficial to us, in ways that we may not realize at the moment. Also, it is possible others on this site may benefit from our discussion regarding this important issue.
I realize there is a large following of people/churches including antinomians, that attribute some of the apostle Paul's teachings to lessening or even more drastically eliminating the need to follow the 10 Commandments.
I hold the apostle Paul, as well as all of the other apostles that where chosen by Jesus in high esteem, but we should also acknowledge they were humans with the same weakness's as we have. Jesus is Perfect, and if there is a question such as we are discussing regarding the 10 Commandments, I will put my trust in following what Jesus said regarding this issue.
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
If believe, if we argue against keeping the commandments we argue with Jesus, I'm not willing to do that...ever.
God Bless
Please consider the following, as you refuse to accept God's 'Life' giving message ( John 18:37; Hebrews 12:25).
God unites His people (the believers) by His Spirit ( John 4:24; Eph. 4:3-6,13).
Luke 9:56. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.
Matthew 11:6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me ( Isa. 8:14; Matthew 13:57; 24:10; 26:31; Rom. 9:32; 1 Cor. 1:23; 2:14; Gal. 5:11; 1 Peter 2:8).
John 3:19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Luke 11:22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
1 John 4:4-6. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he than is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice ( John 8:47; 18:37).
You search the scriptures for in them ye think that ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life ( John 5:39,40).
He that is spiritual judgeth (discerneth) all things, yet he himself is judged by no man ( 1 Cor. 2:15).
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true ( Proverbs 1:7; 10:8,21; 12:15; 13:20; 14:9; 16:22; 18:2; 20:3; 29:11; Luke 18:10-14; Cor. 1:20; 2:14; 15:36).
We regret that you are not able to understand any of the above ( 1 Cor. 2:14; 2 Cor. 7:10). Notwithstanding: Seek and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
Don't let your self-righteousness stand in the way of your salvation ( Romans 10:2-4).
In His Service.
Andy & Diane van den Berg
God's (Moral Law) make the arrest
The Gospel sets us free.
Matt. 10:14 (example) Many trample the pearl of grace. Until they see God as a righteous judge,
For them Gods law commands their attention.
Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known & come to light.
Have you ever lied? hated? Lusted? Stole anything? Had sex out side of marriage. Wild imaginations?
What do you call someone who lies? What do you call someone who steals? What is someone called who uses Gods name as a cuss word?
Let's be legalistic. An empty stomach lust for food. Is that sin? Of course not. But
Jesus said whoever looks at another with lust (seizing them with wild imaginations) has already committed adultery with that person in their heart. Forget others, You're in big trouble.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, & unbelieving, & the abominable, & murderers, & whoremongers, & sorcerers,& idolaters, and ((all liars)) shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now back to court....
Telling an honest judge in a court of law you're sorry won't set you free
and you can bet it won't work when we're summoned to stand the living God either.
The wage for our sin must be paid. ((Death))
The bible speaks of only two types of people.
The just and the unjust.
At our judgment reward will be given & taken away.
But God will throw the book at the unjust. (second death)
1 Cor. 15:1-4 Salvation in a nutshell
Acts 17:30-31 God calls all people to repent (turn from unbelief) & warns Christ will (Judge) the world!
Praise God earth is not home of those justified by the finished work of the cross!
The "Just" have been justified by the blood of the Lamb. We have confidence!
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have ((boldness)) in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world!
he never change
he is our guide
our ever present helper
HE IS THE REASON I LIVE TODAY
GLORY TO HIS HOLY NAME
But how do those Commandments apply to a Spirit filled believer who is subjected to all types of intrusions into his life that demand a decision or a choice that is not covered in the Decalogue. We could give many examples of this, but to give a couple: a brother is brought into a difficult frustrating situation & his immediate response is to utter an expletive in disgust. Does the Decalogue cover this sin? If the brother relied on it for identifying sin(s), then he could comfort himself that that behaviour is fine before God since it isn't mentioned. But if he is troubled by that outburst & repents, what warrant does he appeal to for his act of contrition? There are some believers that are amongst us who think nothing at all to use 'flowery language'.
Or, going to the grocery store, seeing some grapes on sale at a good price, but are they sweet? Why not try a couple & then make a purchase. After all this is not stealing as the Decalogue warns about stealing - it's only tasting a couple of grapes & surely that can't be stealing. Again, I've seen believers who think nothing about doing this - Why? - because it's not seen as stealing as per the Commandment. Why don't I do it? My warrant for not doing so is not found in the Decalogue.
The above examples might appear strange, but I think, relevant for those appealing to the Ten Commandments as a set of Laws to abide by. It was necessary for Israel, including the myriad of other laws that were given them, but for those who have the indwelling Spirit, of what significance can they now hold? Aren't the Words of the Spirit to our hearts, His convicting, His directing, His pleading, of greater worth than those Laws engraven in stone that only led to death & not Life?
As praying for everyone feels right. The people who do right and them that do wrong. As the Lord has taught me to love all. As in Luke 6:35 :"for He(our Father) is kind unto the unthankful and the evil." Praise the Lord Jesus Christ and our Perfect Father! God Bless you brother.
The Ten Commandments were never intended to be a list to be ticked through in the margin. To do that could make us, or a new believer, smug & satisfied that we are in right standing with God. Didn't the rich young ruler also believe that he had 'made it'? ( Mark 10:17-22). Jesus virtually told him that he failed in the very first commandment. The Law was a revelation of God's Standard for His people & to alert them to their incapability to wholly maintain that Standard. Where does that leave us now if we still resort to it when our Saviour has fulfilled all its demands, nailing it to the Cross, thereby giving all those who come in faith in the shed Blood, forgiveness & liberty only through Him? Do we not do despite to His Love & His Gift, to cleave to that which only revealed the sin in us thus giving us separation from God & eternal death?
The Law was given for a time & purpose - Jesus, by His coming & sacrifice, concluded (fulfilled) that 'time & purpose' thereby relieving us (read: Jews) from the bindings of the Law which only brought death. He said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jn 10:10b. Surely this abundant life includes both the release from the burden of guilt & sin and also the bindings & burdens of the Law which proved that sin & only brought death.
And lest you feel that my belief & stance is antinomian, please don't, as we haven't yet come to the discussion on Romans 8:2. And this I see as the key verse, along with much of Paul's writings on the weakness & finality of the Law in view of Christ's worth; and this has a direct bearing on believers who need to be released from the "weakness" of the Law to the "Power" of the Law that comes from & through the Holy Spirit. I would look forward to this discussion, if you wish to proceed. The Lord be with you (& us) in our meditations on our Saviour's great Sacrifice & spiritual freedom we can enjoy in Him.
Bro. Dan. I don't think that we're making much headway with this discussion. Looking at Matthew 5:17-19 (as you quoted): Indeed, Jesus came to fulfil the Law & the Prophets, that which was given to Israel & the prophecies about Himself. And true, "Heaven & Earth haven't passed away as yet". Yet, we continue to dwell on something that has already happened: that Jesus came in fulfilment of the prophecies & that He, and He alone, had fulfilled the very minutiae of the Law. So, in my understanding, the Law which was given by God for Israel's spiritual & societal well-being could not be kept fully by them but only showed them their constant, perpetual need for repentance & sacrifice. Jesus came of course, to give His Life for them (& us) as the only true & effective Sacrifice, and also to speak about Kingdom Life & what the full true meaning of God's Laws were, in comparison to what they performed or what the religious leaders taught. We see some of this from verse 20 onwards & elsewhere in His discourses.
So, if the Law was still current in the time of Christ (as it was indeed), at what time would it then be "fulfilled"? The Greek for this is: Genetai, meaning: 'happen or accomplished'. Did the given Law & Prophetical writings about Jesus find their finality at the appearing of Christ, or, as you may be suggesting, that there is yet a future time when (i.e. at the passing away of Heaven & Earth) the validity & requirements of the Law would eventually conclude? It is my belief that Jesus used that as an expression to signify the importance of the Law & its perpetual purity: this cannot change. But what changes is that by the coming of Jesus at the appointed time, He also brought about the fulfilment of that Law (in Himself - by Himself), so that mankind (Jew & Gentile) should have no more recourse to the Law (that only brought knowledge of sin & death - not life), but resorting to the Fulfiller of that Law & our cleaving to Him in love & obedience.
I also stated knowing the Ten Commandments by heart. It seems, after being saved by the Lord, that all these things are no longer a burden at all to follow. It seems to comes naturally from a power not of my own. All of the 613 Jewish laws? Now there is a problem. As it says people should be stoned to death and burned at the stake. Along with many other things I know the Lord does not condone.
Hopefully, my brothers, we can all just help one another through these peaceful conversations. We all need Jesus Christ as no one cometh unto the Father but by Him. John 14:6. God Bless
You are stating that Jesus did not speak about the cancelation of the Law because of his upcoming death and resurrection.
Yes he did speak about the Law, and Jesus knew that he was going to die for our sins and complete the plan and work of God, but he did not cancel the Law. On the contrary, he reinforced the law as stated by Christ below.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Jesus says "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." To me, this is the key that Jesus wants us to live according to God's law 10 Commandments. Until heaven and earth pass......this has not happened Yet, and until it happens the Law remains.....as stated by Jesus.
I believe that the Law/Ten Commandments provides us with the roadmap to live a good life here on earth, while also preparing us for God's great plan for us in the second life which will be for eternity.
Christ died on the cross for the worlds sins. His death provides the ransom for our sins. He became the new and only mediator between God and each of us. This is the "Good News".
When we live according to God's plan for us and we fall short/sin, (as each of us will) we now have Jesus Christ to confide in, and through Jesus Christ we can now receive forgiveness of our sins from God.
Good Bless.
So in Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:17, Jesus was making it clear that the Law could never fail - what God had given stands true & firm in its purity & application for every life for every age. And indeed, Jesus' coming was to fulfil that Law (& the prophecies about Him). I see no problem here as all that He said did happen. Then back to my question: why then did Jesus have to die? Could not that Perfect Law have saved us, with maybe a touch of extra grace from God to carry us over the line? After all, we do love God with all our hearts & want to observe all that He has directed us to do; we just need a little more of His understanding & resulting pardon to give us the needed assurance & comfort. But if we have His pardon based only on His Son's death, what then could that Law given do for us? Could it have given us "Life"? No, it only brought condemnation & death. "Is the Law then against the Promises of God"? No, "for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." Gal 3:21.
As believers, saved by grace through faith, we can never resort to the Law, whether for some merit or to add to the saving work of Christ on the Cross. Jesus' death & resurrection cancelled out any claims or adherence to the Law, for "the Law is not of faith". Gal 3:12. Yes, the Law is good & perfect, but "the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did". And that hope was only Jesus Who was "made a surety of a better testament."
Bro. Dan. I understand what you're saying & it is true that Jesus did not speak about the cancellation of the given Law because of His (future) death & resurrection. The Law given then, as it is now, "is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Rom 7:12.
The problem with properly arguing such an important matter is that all Scripture has to be considered in its proper manner & not a dependence on just a few portions. Had the matter ended with Jesus' Words in the Gospels, then we would indeed be content with that & both Jew & Gentile converts would maintain strict observance of the Law & somehow after Christ's death, still rigidly attend to both it & Christ's Sacrifice as equally necessary to be acceptable to God. Is this how you understand the Scripture? Do you make any differentiation between the purpose of the Law & the need of God's Grace through His Son? If we had only the O.T. & the Gospels to show us how to live properly under the Law, then that is how we would be judged; and by all accounts, we would fail.
Since you quote solely from the Gospels to present your position, considering them is necessary. As stated earlier, Jesus did not speak about the annulling of the Law in the future but He did direct his hearers to what was correct & appropriate for that time. The Jews, still under the Law, were not obeying it as God purposed; Jesus had to give them the proper meaning, viz, the condition of the heart, relationship to non-Jews, money, divorce, Sabbath, justice, etc. etc. Jesus only spoke clearly to His disciples of his eventual sacrificial death, that which they hardly believed & accepted ( Mt 16:20-22), how much less trying to get them to understand the matter we are discussing now (of the New Covenant resulting from His Sacrifice); though He did refer to it in the Upper Room ( Luke 22:20).
I will disagree with much of your stated understanding of scripture, and your comment that you "not only would cancel the 4th commandment, but you would cancel all 10 commandments.
I will let Jesus answer the issue in regard to the 10 commandments:
Mathew 23:36-40 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Below Jesus himself answers the question of canceling the Law.
Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
If Jesus was going cancel the law and the commandments he would have said as much, as he had many chances to do so as stated above in these scriptures.
The other matter is about the forgetting of the sin. Just as a sinner leaves behind his sins 'at the foot of the Cross' & these are no longer held as a charge against him, yet he will always have memory of those past sins, but endeavour by the Spirit's Life in him not to pursue them again. Does God also forget our sins when He forgives? He does in the sense of never holding our past sins against us, but He knows that we are still sinners 'saved by His Grace' & indeed, He wouldn't be God if He could never recall our previous sinful life. Heb 10:17: "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Though this verse speaks about the time when those Jews would turn to Jesus for salvation instead of obedience to the Law & Sacrifices, it tells us that God will no longer remember their (& our) sins, or, that He will never bring them up against us: He has wiped our slate clean & we have been declared 'not guilty'.
Brian, I believe that the Christian's response to someone who has erred against you is not only based on his/her repentance to you of that error. It would be wonderful if that person would recognize his error & be humble enough to seek your forgiveness & restoration of the relationship: your forgiving him would be easy & comforting to both.
But if he/she did not come in repentance, & as you also suggest, not only that but also continued to sin against you, how should you & we respond? I believe that our forgiveness is based on what God has done for us in Christ: He has freely forgiven us & we should also do likewise. I realize that God requires our repentance first, but that means that He waits for our acknowledgement that we have sinned against Him & we are convicted & torn by our wickedness. He waits that we recognize that we can be forgiven only through faith in the finished work at the Cross & in nothing else.
So, our repentance must be essential for God's forgiveness to be given us. Whereas, our response to someone who has sinned against us doesn't necessarily require their repentance first, because our forgiving him/her is simply based on Christ's Love in us to forgive them unequivocally, whether or not he repents. This is the heart that is touched by the Holy Spirit: that we have the spirit of forgiveness to all.