Numbers Chapter 15 Discussion

  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 10 months ago

    Pt. 4

    It is certainly permissible to choose ways to help us remember God's Word. But we need to always "Keep it Fresh" so that such actions (traditions/habits) retain their purposed outcome. Also, we cannot let such actions replace our relationship with the LORD and lead to taking a cavalier approach to God because we are depending on our actions to make us holy rather than the Holy Spirit.

    Something things to think about in this chapter. I welcome the additions of others to my thoughts.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 10 months ago

    Pt. 3

    Were the people truly humbled after God's judgment? It seems that they were swift to bring this man to judgment who broke the Sabbath law. Which was worse? grumbling against God and disbelieving Him to deliver them into the land -or- collecting sticks on the Sabbath to keep warm or give light to their campsite.

    At least they waited until God spoke to Moses to carry out the requirement of the law concerning this breach. Maybe Moses told them to wait on the LORD. I wonder if they thought about their own rebelliousness and unbelief towards the LORD with every stone they threw at this man. They were equally as guilty as he was. They all had experienced the miraculous ways God delivered them from enemies and provided for their physical needs. They all had heard Moses announce the Law to them and they all agreed to keep the Law as their part of the covenant with the LORD. They all knew that they were law-breakers, just like this man.

    It seems the LORD exacted this sentence on this man because he deserved it, but also to show the people how serious and offensive their own sin truly was to God who delivered them from their enemies and bondage. Especially when God said that the sinner's soul will be cut off (assumed from God) and that his sin remains upon him. This goes beyond not entering into the land, dying in the wilderness. It speaks to the life to come for those who remain in unbelief.

    The chapter ends with God instructing the people to put fringes upon the hems of their garments with blue ribbon. This was for them to always be reminded of the their responsibility to keep the commandments God gave them as part of the covenant made at Sinai. I wonder how long it took for this practice to become so ordinary that it no longer was a reminder as God had requested of them. How long did it take for Israelites to abandon having fringed garments altogether.

    Such acts that are meant to remind us of God's Word can become mundane or rote to us.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 10 months ago

    Pt. 2

    God instructs Moses concerning sins committed out of ignorance and those committed out of presumption.

    God requires certain sacrifices be made for sins committed in ignorance and they will be forgiven.

    But sins of presumption are not treated so. The one who presumes to be free to break the commands of God and not suffer punishment because they are "chosen" by God will be reproaching God (despising Him or His commandments). the presumption spoken here speaks to an attitude of arrogance, rebellion, audacity, a willful going against the commands of God with impunity, thinking that God will surely not exact the judgment He said would come the one who willfully transgresses His commands.

    One who claims to follow God who acts presumptuously toward Him and His laws have placed themselves above God in determining what one is allowed to do. The chapter says that there is no ordinance (sacrifice or offering) that will bring forgiveness for this type of sinning. The one who acts this way will be cut off from among God's people. His soul shall be cut off and his iniquity shall remain upon him.

    And example of such actions is given in verses 32-36 when an Israelites gathers sticks on the Sabbath to make a fire. He knew the law concerning the Sabbath-all preparations were to be made the day before so that no one would work on the Sabbath. He failed to prepare for the needs of the fire (kind of like the foolish virgins). Also, rather than going without a fire for a day/night, he willfully and knowingly broke the Sabbath law and collected sticks, which was considered working on the Sabbath.

    At first, the people did not know what to do (vs. 34). Then God spoke to Moses about this man. He was to be stoned to death by the people outside the camp.

    After all that grumbling and rebellion prior to this event, it seems that the chastisement of the LORD sank in a little at this time. They knew that they would not enter the promised land because of their sin.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 10 months ago

    This chapter is God describing to Moses how the Israelites and the foreigners among them are to sacrifice to Him once they are in the promised land.

    First off, God said that the people He delivered from Egypt would take possession of the land He promised to bring them into. God's words do not fail. The people hearing this from Moses would be glad to know that even though they themselves will not enter the land due to their grumbling and rebellion against the LORD (in Ch. 13 and 14), their children under 20 years of age would enter and live in the land of Canaan.

    In Hebrews 11 we are told of all the people of faith who believed God but never received the promise, yet they believed that God would fulfill all He promised ( Heb. 11:13-16, 39-40) God had something better for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and those who suffered for their faith than the land of Canaan. Verse 40 says: "God having provided some better thing for us (who believe in Jesus), that they without us should not be made perfect." These Old Testament saints were not set on living in the physical land promised as much as they looked forward to entering and abiding forever in the heavenly city prepared by our Lord, the dwelling place of those who believe God and His promises are true and worthy of receiving in the life to come.

    We, too, should not hold on to earthly blessings as if they are all we need in life. We need this heavenly dwelling place as much as all who have gone before us. We need the eternal inheritance we receive in Christ. We need to live where Jesus lives in the next life.

    The chapter goes on to describe the various sacrifices and offerings for both the Israelites and Gentiles who enter and are born in the land promised. God made it clear that these ordinances are to be the same for both Israelites and Gentiles living among them. In verse 15, the LORD says that "as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD." Both are the same before God.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Brother What you stated there is the difference between mental accent to Gods Word and actual committed believing action from the heart which requires a desire to do what it takes. God Bless
  • Number 15 - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Very well said. There are many scriptures in the Bible that God requires action and submission. Permit me to step out on a limb here if I could sum up the word of God in one word I would lean toward submission. Very well said. God Bless.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hello ChrisE,

    Whether or not you are misunderstanding those verses, I have no way of answering that because I don't know your understanding of them. You're asking me how is it that you have life everlasting? If you tell me you have life everlasting, I would say you have everlasting life because you received Christ and you've been born of His Spirit, not because you simply believed.

    To be clear, I know that belief is important. But belief itself does not save anyone. If you are telling me that belief alone meets the requirement for salvation, I am going to have to disagree. In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person ( Romans 8:9).

    The demons intellectually understand and believe the truth about God. And they recognize Christ, and they confess Him, and they honor Him. But they never surrender to Him. This tells me that belief alone does not save. A person must surrender their life to Christ in order to be saved.

    There are three things involved in the human life. There's the mind, there's the heart, and there's the mouth.

    In Romans Chapter 10, it says that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that Christ is raised from the dead, that we shall be saved.

    And some people mistake the fact that you can just say with your lips those words, but if you just say with your lips those words, it's the mind and the lips, not the heart and the lips.

    There's a difference. Jesus said with the heart a man believes! I can believe with my mind. I can believe intellectual thoughts and truths about God, and not be surrendered to Him in my heart, my spirit. There's a difference between believing the truth with your mind and surrendering to Christ with your heart.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Jesse said: "a non-believer can become a believer and still not be forgiven. A person has to be born of God's Spirit in order to be forgiven and saved. Belief is important, but belief itself does not bring salvation. Receiving Jesus Christ and being born of His Spirit is what saves a person. With that salvation comes forgiveness."? According To Plain/Clear Scriptures?:

    Precious friend, then I must Misunderstand: "Repent, and Believe The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God"? = "Believe On CHRIST, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, by GRACE Through faith {BELIEF, trust}." ( 1 Corinthians 15:3-4) ( Ephesians 2:5-9)?

    I must Misunderstand "trusting CHRIST" In ( Ephesians 1:12)? Also:

    "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of The LORD, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of The Truth:" ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13)?

    "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE..." ( Romans 3:22)? compare ( Romans 4:11) ( Romans 4:24) ( 1 Corinthians 1:21) ( Galatians 3:22) ( Ephesians 1:19) ( Philippians 1:29) ( 1 Thessalonians 1:7) ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14) ( 2 Thessalonians 1:10)

    Finally IF I BELIEVE, "but sins are NOT forgiven," how is it that I HAVE Life Everlasting, According To ALL The above Plain And Clear Scriptures About "BELIEF"?:

    "Howbeit for this cause I obtained MERCY, that in me first JESUS CHRIST might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter BELIEVE ON HIM to Life Everlasting." ( 1 Timothy 1:16)?

    Upon my BELIEF Of Truth, did not The Holy Spirit Baptize ( 1 Corinthians 12:13) me Into The Body Of CHRIST, God "forgiving my sins," in the twinkling of an eye?

    Now, IF you are referring to "water baptism for the remission of sins" that is altogether

    Another Different Bible study we could pursue, IF you wish...

    Respectfully, ChrisE
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hello Ron,

    The short answer to that is yes. But I don't look at it as "if a non-believer sins" because a non-believer is living in a continuous state of sin whether they realize it or not. They may be a "good person," but until the sin remedy is taken care of, they are still in that continuous state of sin.

    Forgiveness of sin and salvation is offered to every human being through Jesus Christ. Romans 10:13 says "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That's a promise! But not everyone will receive Him.

    Your question can be looked at in more than one way. In other words, a non-believer can become a believer and still not be forgiven. A person has to be born of God's Spirit in order to be forgiven and saved. Belief is important, but belief itself does not bring salvation. Receiving Jesus Christ and being born of His Spirit is what saves a person. With that salvation comes forgiveness.

    A person who has been born of God's Spirit has been forgiven, justified, declared not guilty, and is now in right standing with God. That person has also been sanctified, set apart for God's purposes. A genuine believer is one who has surrendered their life to Jesus Christ, one who has made Him Lord of their life. That person is the one who is forgiven!
  • Ron wilkinson - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hi Jesse thank you for your answer. I have one more question. If a non believer sins can he become a believer and be forgiven?
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hello Ron,

    Your original question had to do with the unpardonable sin. The bible teaches that the only sin that is unpardonable (cannot be forgiven) is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The word blasphemy means to reject. In order for a person to be saved, they must receive Christ. They must be born of His Spirit. A person must come to Jesus and surrender their life to Him.

    But Jesus said in John 6:44 that no one can come to Him unless the Father first draws them to Him. So God sends His Spirit to a person to convict them of their sin and their need of a Savior, the Savior being Jesus Christ. But if a person rejects the testimony of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit), that person cannot be saved, nor forgiven for that rejection. That is the unpardonable sin, rejecting the testimony of God's Spirit.

    Now to answer your other question. I would guess that most of us have heard the expression "Holy Blank" used before. But how often do we hear this come from the mouth of a person who is a true believer and is being led by God's Spirit which lives in them? I would like to think it would be rare. For the believer, we are told in Ephesians 4:29 to let no corrupt communication come out of our mouths.

    Now, even though the bible teaches us how to conduct ourselves (even in speech), if a believer were to slip up and let that phrase come out, that would not be considered blasphemy, definitely not the unpardonable sin because the believer has already been sanctified in Christ Jesus and did not reject His Spirit, but received Christ. However, it does nothing for the building up (edification) of the body of Christ. For the non-believer, they probably could care less!
  • Ron wilkinson - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hi Jesse thanks for answering my question. I have another similar question. There is an expression used today that consists of two words. "Holy blank" Blank being a negative word not Holy. In fact the opposite, Is this blasphemy even though it's unfortunately a common expression?
  • A - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    I think that verse makes reference to knowingly committing a sin vs unknowingly committing sins specifically in relation to the 10 commandments. Remember at this time when people committed sins they needed to make blood offering of rams and animals alike.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago

    I don't see Numbers 15:30-31 being connected to the unpardonable sin. To answer your question "Can a Gentile commit the unpardonable sin?" The answer to that is yes. It doesn't matter if a person is Jew or Gentile, anyone can commit the unpardonable sin. The word blasphemy means to reject. A person that rejects the testimony of God's Spirit when He comes to them and convicts them of their sin and shows them their need of a Savior, if they reject that testimony, they cannot be forgiven for that!
  • Ron wilkinson on Numbers 15 - 2 years ago
    Hi. My question: Is Numbers 15: 30 31 connected to the unpardonable sin in the New Testament. Can a Gentile commit the unpardonable sin? It say's native born or alien living among you are under the law.
  • Donna Ramirez on Numbers 15:38 - 3 years ago
    Do yu have a teaching on the jewish New Year
  • Robert - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    If you truly seek the Sabbath, try studying the scriptures. Search Sabbath and read all verses, both alone and in context.

    Ask for the instruction and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    When He responds, test his instructions. Not as a scoffed, but as a willing seeker. (Ex: children push the boundaries to learn, grow, and discover).

    You claim to honor the Sabbath on Sunday, but the spirit warns you, but it is easier to follow tradition and rationalize, than to take up the cross (another good devotional scripture study).

    Test it. Find a Sabbath keeping church and try it out for one month. That warning voice will cease, and your relationship with God will strengthen. Caution: your church, your family, your friends, will be the ones who begin to show there true colors.

    Since the beginning (Eden), God has asked us to worship Him His way; we have chosen to worship Him our way.

    The scriptures tell us very clearly. Jesus is the only way. Become disciples, don't drink babes milk forever. Grow, learn, test, prove all things, watch, prepare.

    2 final devotional study suggestions (false prophets, horns). Seek and the Holy Spirit will teach. Ask, and it will be given. God's ways are not man's ways.

    Prayers for you and may God grant you His blessings on your journey!
  • SYL EDO - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 4 years ago
    The Sabbath Is the LORD"S day,not sunday.See Isaiah 58:12-14, Mark 2:27,28
  • Guillermo Prieto - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 4 years ago
    It is correct, except that there is no eight days, but the first day of the next week.
  • Stanjett on Numbers 15 - 4 years ago
    The Jews kept the Sabbath and still do. But we worship on the Lords day, which is Sunday. Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday, which is why Christians worship him on Sunday. Of course, we should worship him every day.
  • Joy - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 4 years ago
    Numbers 15v38 teaches that the children of Israel ought to dress spiritually and not just physical, one must take the word of GOD Spiritually at all times. Spiritually speaking, Christians must always put fringe of the border a ribband of blue on their Christian life as well as on their physical life the precept and concept to this book is Matthew 6:1-6, 16-18 and 23-5. GOD Bless You.
  • Joel - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 4 years ago
    I am wondering the same thing . It seems extremely severe.
  • Vernon Brown on Numbers 15 - 5 years ago
    God wants people to live A holy life if they don't they will not make heaven. We are going to be judged by the 66 books of the Bible. If you take part of the world you will not make heaven. Most Churches do not preach holiness any more and tell people it is ok to go to movies , sporting events, and dance clubs and bars and it is not ok. It is part of the world and we are suppose to live holy
  • BSP on Numbers 15 - 5 years ago
    Verse 15~There was one standard for the Israelites and for any foreigners who joined them. This shows that Jehovah God is impartial and fair.
  • Hayley Harvey on Numbers 15 - 7 years ago
    God rested on the 7th day and the 8th day he made it the first of the week. So Saturday is Sabbath Day. I also read that it starts Friday night at sunset till Saturday at sunset. Someone else can let me know if this is incorrect.
  • A disciple on Numbers 15 - 7 years ago
    Judy, good questions! The seventh day is "Shabbat;" which is the original Hebrew word for our English word sabbath. It comes from the root Shin-Beit-Tav and means to cease, to end, to rest. When the Emperor Constantine "became a Christian," he held to his worship of the Sun-god; (which is where the name Sunday comes from); and decreed that on Sun-day, all citizens must come together for Church.
  • Judy on Numbers 15 - 7 years ago
    Sabbath law is confusing. Is it Saturday or Sunday? When God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day, He said to keep the Sabbath holy, to rest on the Sabbath. The days of the week didn't have names then. Was a day then 24 hours? When did God say Saturday was Sabbath. He said the 7th day. What calendar did God use when he made the world? I don't want to sin, I keep Sunday as Sabbath.
  • BSP on Numbers 15 - 7 years ago
    In verse 39 God made a physical sign for his people to remember that they must be different.
  • Jean on Numbers 15 - 7 years ago
    one needs to pay attention to JEHOVAH RULES and beg his forgiveness for spared life
  • Tukaroto on Numbers 15 - 8 years ago
    Numbers 15:38,39 How would you relate to these verses in truth KJV only ?

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