Matthew Chapter 3 Discussion Page 3

Thanks, Rick, for all of your dialogue with me. I appreciate a good discussion. The early church leaders, apostles, bishops, etc. wrote often to congregations they were overseeing. They also wrote a great deal of letters back and forth among leaders to look at teachings from every angle, even when there was much agreement, but some slight differences. The church had to wrestle with how to teach on Jesus' dual nature. Some heretics were saying he was only human, others, only divine, others incarnating only in a spiritual body. Other leaders were communicating with one another, trying to understand how He was distinct from the Father but also One, and what was meant as His divine essence and compared it to that of the Father. These leaders in the early church were important for the body of Christ. They sought spiritual help from the Spirit to try to grasp some of the "mysteries" Paul often spoke to. They would come together and conference over such matters and try to come to a consensus. This is how the first creeds were formulated, and then these creeds were taught to believers and used in worship services as a proclamation of Truth corporately held by the congregations. Bishops of Asia Minor, such as Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, and Irenaeus, (from the Antioch church, met with Bishops from Northern Africa, Greece & Macedonia, Rome, Spain, and Brittany. (Not all at the same time, nor every time). They had quite a charge upon them to defend and teach the true faith delivered by Jesus to the apostles. They didn't always agree, but they endeavored to engage with one another to bring true understanding of the Truth of Jesus Christ. So, we are in good company!

Gigi Have fun with this they are identified through the original writings, have you ever stood in a line of ten people and

the first one told the second one something and by the time the story got to the last one it entirely changed. In some cases that happened scripturally. If martin luther who got justification by faith not by works right would see what happened to

what he started he'd flip. I'm not a lutheran, methodist,protestant, baptist, and the list goes on and on. I'm a christian that's what Gods Word says, that's is what we were called in Antioch of syria because believers walking around boldly said I have christ in me, which is a significant detail they didn't say Jesus, they said christ. Were Having fun now.

Sis That gets back to rightly divided doctrine, and No private interpretation which has been handed down through the ages. I do what I do because it works not because its a nice head trip, Jesus Christ walked and talked in the realm of the miraculous, we can too which I KNOW most people don't believe but that's not my problem, that's what my God through his Son paid for in full. Because of His Sacrifice and resurrection we can Hebrews 4:16, Romans 12:2, Ephesians 5:1+2,

Ephesians 1:19, John 10:10, 2 Timothy 1:7, 1 John 3:22, there are over 400 of these called promises to us who believe.

I've learned by walking out and doing that is believing, I never received nothing until I read listened and Acted which by the way is why its called the book of Acts, they believed and moved.

Hi Sis The church of Corinth was into some intense stuff because they actually had a temple where they worshipped sex



and didn't want to change there pagan practices and thought they could have there cake and eat it too, that's to me why the word is like it was written yesterday, and by the way Christ is building His church Paul was just instructed by Jesus Christ on operation of what was Given. The Mystery of the One Spiritual body Jews and Gentiles.

Amen Sister GiGi.

Yes, deception and error was present and growing in the church in just a short time period. Thus they many warnings by the writers of the letters to the churches. And it has continued to be a problem in the church down through the ages. But Jesus promised that He will build His church and the gate of hell will not prevail against it. The Lord has preserved His church through the centuries and equipped it with those who refute false teachings (doctrines). These same heresies keep popping up in the church in all time periods. It is wise to know how to identify these heresies when we see them promoted.

Most likely, Rick. the Corinthian congregations were known for such sensual practices, claiming it was from the Spirit, but in reality, as Paul stated, it was from the realm of carnality.

P.S. The reason it was not practiced is due to the amount of unbelief and walking by the senses which Paul was always fighting..

Hi Gigi The answer to one of your questions is in 2 Timothy which is a leadership epistle, chapt. 1:13-15 Paul states all asia has turned away from sound doctrine. This guy was given the knowledge of the operation of the body of Christ in the age of grace Ephesians 3:1-7. That is an unbelievable because he witnessed in acts to all asia in 2 years and 3 months, and except for a handle full of believers they all were practicing doctrines of men. This was written less than 70 years after the birthday of the church. So how bad since then has the corruption of other doctrine have gotten. Its really something to think about. Yes I read the the Church Epistles a lot written to the Church of God not saying i don't learn a ton in the Gospels or the rest, and too boot it all fits like a well fitting wet suit!

Dear Hartford,

I just don't know why any Christian would not want to receive baptism in water, in addition to all the other scripture, here is Jesus telling us that (point blank) we really need to submit to this - if we want to enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

God Bless.

No one can show scripturally in the church epistles written by Paul where getting born again water is a requirement, on the birthday of the church they were baptized about three thousands souls and received holy spirit and it never mentions water there were no swimming pools in the temple. Also acts 1:5 John truly baptized with water but ye shall[ putting in contrast this was before this will be after ] be baptized with holy spirit not many days hence. In Acts Paul was passing through the upper coast he asked certain disciples if they received the holy ghost and they said we were baptised under johns baptism, they never heard of baptism by Jesus Christ then Paul baptised them in the name of Jesus Christ and they received holy spirit into manifestation. They were baptised under the law but never were concerning jesus Christ and grace. Just sharing

Hi Hafford Please show me in the Book of Romans Chapter 10 where to be born again water is mentioned, now the reason why many are born again and not water baptised is because they read this first and got delivered. I also know people who were water baptised taught that this was all you need and didn't get delivered , and I know people who did both and got delivered. All I know is when I confessed Romans 10:9+19 and believed I was born again. I'm aware of alk other scripture references.

If you read Acts Ch 8 carefully you will see that Philip makes sure , before baptism , that Ethiopian understands who Jesus is .

I have read in places where people claim that water baptism isn't for this dispensation (when? after Pentecost? after the death of all the apostles?) and that it was for the Jews not the Gentiles.

Also, they have said that the baptism for Christians is the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, not water baptism.

In Acts 10:44-48, Peter is preaching to the household of Cornelius (a Gentile), the Holy Spirit descends on the listeners and they begin to speak in tongues, just as at Pentecost. (Here the Holy Spirit bestowed the spiritual gift without the laying on of hands.) Peter remarks "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Here Peter insists on these new believers to be baptized with water after they had received the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

This Scripture shows us that water baptism was normal practice by the apostles for new believers, either before or after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the new believers.

Water baptism was the normal accepted practice in the early church of the 1st and 2nd century. I have not read if the descent and outpouring of the Holy Spirt with speaking in tongues, as in this passage and others, where the apostles laid hands upon people and prayed prior to the Holy Spirit's outpouring, was common accepted practice into the 2nd century and beyond. I'll need to research this more. I would welcome any historical information on this from anyone.

Hi Sasha,

I think that many do not desire water baptism because many churches today (and pastors) do not preach , teach or practice it much. They downplay it as an option to having received "Jesus into their hearts". But it is a command of Jesus' for people to repent, believe and be baptized (in water). I would love to that every church has a body of water on the property for people to be immediately baptized as soon as they come to belief in Jesus. I think this was the usual practice in the New Testament church, with a few exception mentioned in Acts. I do think that God does do something vital in baptism that we just cannot really explain with 100% accuracy. It is a matter of faith that baptism is not just a physical cleansing or a rite. Jesus never intended it as such. In Baptism, whatever spiritual thing that is done, it is done by God alone.

In churches today, many are required to go through some classes before being baptized. I do not see evidence of this in the Scripture. The teaching and training in the faith should follow baptism, in my opinion.

Precious friend, some of us are not "trying to Deliberately Disobey" any of God's Commands That "Are FOR us," Today, Under GRACE. We are Deliberately trying to plant the seed of God's Command 2 Timothy 2:15 That Dispels the 'Confusion' over water baptism.

Here is our "study" showing water is not "God's ONE Baptism" FOR us, Today, Under Grace, IF you wish to review it

ONE Baptism:

Link

Hello Hafford. I'll just comment on the Scriptures you gave.

Jesus' baptism was carried out by John the Baptist. John's baptism was different to the Jewish baptism & also different to Believers' baptism (which could only occur post-Cross). John baptised "unto repentance" ( Matthew 3:11) to those who were convinced of their sins & wanted to demonstrate their contrite state. But Jesus (post-Cross) would baptize with the Holy Ghost & with Fire (which He did when He sent His Spirit to baptize first the apostles on the Day of Pentecost, & then all repentant sinners bringing them into God's family).

The Apostle Paul, after being received by Ananias, was filled with the Holy Spirit when the scales of blindness fell off. He then proceeded to be baptized with both his physical & spiritual eyes opened ( Acts 9:17,18).

1 Peter 3:21 states: "The like figure (Noah's Ark) whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Peter ensures that he states that water baptism is not for the cleansing of the "filth of the flesh", i.e. how the Jews understood it by a ceremonial washing for external cleansing, but Believers' baptism is an act of identification with Christ, giving the baptizee a clear conscience of receiving Christ's salvation only by faith. If salvation came by anything more than God's Grace through faith in that finished work on the Cross, then salvation is no more of faith but by works (i.e. any act by man to secure it) - Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5. As important as water baptism is to the new convert, it conveys no saving grace, as Christ's Blood alone is sufficient to deal with the sin question & the expression of our faith to secure that salvation.

I have no idea why people are reluctant to get water baptized , it boggles my mind , once I knew the Truth I was desperate to be baptized , I was scared in case I died before I could get baptized . I understand that there are circumstances where it really isn't possible , but every effort should be made . If God or Jesus tells me to do something , something so simple , I'm going to do it , why wouldn't I ? Maybe it's fear of commitment ? Who knows ? Not me cos I've been baptized !

Jesus was baptized in Matthew 3:11 thru 17. He said it must be done to fulfill "all righteousness."

The apostle Paul was baptized in Acts 9:6 thru 17! It says in verse 6 that he (Paul) would be told what he MUST do.

In 1st Peter 3:21 the scriptures say "baptism doth also now save us....it is the answer of a good conscience toward God."

Why does mankind delibertly refuse to accept baptism as necessary to have their sins forgiven?

there are no words

Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Me too, what a blessing! It wasn't always so, but for a few years now,

I spend the first part of the day with it. The Holy Spirit is just highlighting

so much; I still read other things, I have interests, but next to the Scripture

now, so much feels utterly flat. Blessings!

I am so happy to have the KJV to read daily.

In Luke 5:32 Jesus calls the sinner to himself. The Lord can put his hand over our heads as a covering and allow us to share in his righteousness.

:)

Link

Is it not wonderful how Jesus spoke of the righteous as "us" with John the Baptist?

There's a link on the red link page. This is from item 3.

Respond: Believe, Repent, Confess, Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior

To be saved, we must believe that Jesus is Lord and believe that He died for our sins. This confession acknowledges before God that we are unable to attain righteousness on our own and that we accept His plan for our lives.

"...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." Acts 16:31

"Yet to all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" Luke 5:32

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Hope this helps :)

The Pharisees and Sadducees came to John for Baptism by water and John preached to them the need for true repentance.

it means to obey Jesus to be baptized in his spirit, in the name of the Father, the Holy Son and the Holy spirit. There are things we seem to be perplexed of his words but take heart trust him in faith as he is faithful to us. For example do you trust your parents who raised you is the same way to trust Jesus Christ when we repent to leave our sins to him and he will take care of the rest. Every person is unique in every different experience once we get the h..oly spirit may be at the time of your baptism or a few hours later, it could be days or weeks whatever that may be.. don't let people or christians tell you otherwise because you have a relationship with him in prayer by yourself and he will listen to every word you say

believe me of course lots of patience and faith will come to you. I say to him to forgive my daily transgressions in knowing and not knowing, he knows we mean it when we confess to him. Not to a pastor or priest or Mary right :) will say a prayer for you sister.

Baptized unto repentance/ for repentance

Which comes first? Isn't it repentance FOLLOWED BY baptism? In Matthew 3 it says baptized FOR REPENTANCE. Please can you clarify?

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"