Matthew Chapter 27 Discussion Page 2



 
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Dear Dana, what is your question?
  • Dana on Matthew 27:54
    We are a Christian family. Having raised our children in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. My grown daughter, who no longer lives at home, had a question that I could not give or think of a satisfactory answer. My Pastor's wife could neither think of an answer that was adequate in explanation. The most I could come up with was that we are here, so God has friends.......aka to fellowship with Him. That is not going to be satisfactory for her. Does anyone have a better explanation? Thank you for your help.

    A worried mom

    Dana
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Bro Barney,

    If I may add a little more to the truth you have shared, I believe there are only two types of people in this world, saved and unsaved. A person is either a slave to Jesus Christ or a slave to sin, no in-between. I believe that salvation is a present-tense condition of everyone who has been born of God's Spirit. A true believer who is being led by God's Spirit would never think it is okay to commit sin or to live a sinful lifestyle.

    There are many who claim to be Christians but have never been born of the Spirit of Christ. They may go to church religiously and participate with the believers and give the appearance of being a believer, but still be void of God's Spirit dwelling within. Those are the ones who eventually walk away. To the others in the church who assumed that person was saved, they will say "See, he walked away and denounced the whole thing, so he lost his salvation.

    This was the same with Judas Iscariot. He was part of the twelve but he was evil from the start. Judas was never saved and then lost his salvation. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfil the scripture saying that He would be betrayed. When Jesus said have not I chosen you all, and one of you is a devil, none of the other 11 knew that it was Judas. But Jesus knew, and that is why He chose Judas.

    I shared earlier about the people in the book of Hebrews who were being "enlighted" to the truth, but later on turned and walked away. Those were Hebrew/Jewish people. They were never saved, but people want to use verses in Hebrews to show that salvation can be lost. I know of a couple of verses in Hebrews that are being used to show that salvation can be lost, Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:26, and also one in Peter's writings, but none of them is talking about saved people losing their salvation.

    The bible speaks about those who profess to be Christian and later on walk away from it all. That's given to us in ( 1 John 2:19). They walk away because they were never saved to begin with!
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Thank you for your kind replies brother Toni. It brings joy to know a post of mine has touched someones heart.

    God Bless you.
  • Mathew - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    you can not get saved by works you have to pray to jesus
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Bro Barney,

    I just wanted to say Amen to everything you just said here. Very well said!!!
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Hello Bro Barney,

    Naturally, I disagree with your interpretation of the scripture and the assumptions made.

    I believe the argument of once saved always saved contradicts itself. Here's how:

    1. Someone believes God gave them freewill.

    2. Someone believes all Christians are already 'saved' and that status never changes.

    3. Then they are asked about Luke 12:10 blasphemy of the holy ghost.

    4. They then claim it doesn't apply to Christians, that Christians can't, that they don't even have the freewill to sin, despite many documented cases of Christians doing exactly that both in the Bible and in the world today. Isaiah 14:12-14 shows that even angels in heaven have freewill to sin and blaspheme.

    Christians still need to face judgment day like everyone else. Only after can someone be actually saved. If we genuinely follow Christ we can be assured of salvation, but the Bible warns us plenty of times to obey, to run the race, to persevere, to abide in the doctrine of Christ 2 John 1:8-9, it paints a much different picture than that I get from others who claim its ok to sin, that you can't sin, that you can be in the world and do whatever you want with zero penalty, and don't even have to worry about turning your back on Christ or blaspheming, because you can't do that. That's the opposite message of what Jesus said. Hebrews 6:4, John 14:15, Matthew 5:13, MATTHEW 7:23.

    If once saved always saved is true, does that mean Christians can commit mass murder and still go to heaven? violence? rape? blasphemy? Or that their freewill is restricted so it's impossible for that to happen? Judas betrayed Jesus, and many Christians leave the faith and reject Jesus, unfortunately. There's a forum on Reddit called ex-Christian if you don't believe it. So, are all ex-Christians who reject Jesus still saved then?

    Which is more likely: that satan, the father of lies is deceiving Christians into obeying God more than necessary, or that committing unlimited sin is ok?
  • Bro Barney - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Adam,

    Please do not take offense to my reply, I only want to clarify my answers for others. I have heard arguments such as yours many times. However, they fail to stand when all scripture is considered.

    You are correct stating "genuine Christian" "trying to avoid sin" and a person is "claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want."

    You have just described two different persons you will find in Christianity. One has repented, ask for forgiveness, and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ to save them. The other only claims to have done this. One has been saved by the work of Christ and is given eternal life, the other has not.

    As for judgments after death, the unbeliever is already judged and condemned, Joh 3:18. The judgments after death are the Judgement Seat of Christ to judge the believers service with lose of rewards not salvation, Rom 14:10, 2Co 5:10, 1Cor 3:12-15. The second is the Great White Throne Judgment for those that rejected God's truth with punishment in the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15.

    Do not misunderstand me, there are consequences to sin, even for the saved. Rev. 3:19

    However, chastening is not the loss of salvation.

    Where I see an error is in your misunderstanding of Luke 12:10. To blaspheme against the Holy Ghost is to reject His ministry. What is His ministry?

    Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, he shall testify of me:

    Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    If an unsaved person continually rejects the Holy Spirits efforts to convince them of their sins and need of salvation through Jesus Christ, then they will not be forgiven. A person that is "truly" saved cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit as they have accepted His witness and is then indwelled by Him. Rom. 8:9, 14, 1Cor. 6:11, 2Cor. 1:22, Eph. 4:30

    As for obedience (works) see the following: Eph. 2:9, Mat. 11:30, Joh. 8:36.

    We obey Jesus out of love not to be co-redeemers.

    Thank you and God bless
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Thank you brother Carleton. It gives me great joy to be able to converse here with others like you who understand. Also to learn from my family in Christ as many here are much deeper in the Lord than I.

    Praise be the Lord for ever and ever!

    Have a Blessed day in the Lord my brother!
  • Toni - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Brother Richard, I'm loving your posts! Keep on bringing the Word of Truth:)
  • Toni - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Wonderful words of spiritual wisdom and truth!
  • Richard in Christ on Matthew 27:54
    Continuation,

    We must stay humble before the Lord. Give our lives to Him and follow Jesus Christ as He is the only way to our Father.

    I guess to end this post will be to "lukewarm" Christians. We are warned there is no middle road. It is one way or the other. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many go that way. Straight and narrow is the way to life and few that find it. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot drink of the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils. 1 Corinthians 10:21, Matthew 6:24. As this comes to Revelation 3:15-16. People who are walking the line are going to have to make a choice. I pray they make that choice today as no one knows when the Lord shall require our life. Or when our last day shall be.

    Another question I would feel to ask a believer is "are you ready"? Do you love the Lord enough to give your life for Him? As in John 15:13-14, Jesus states there is no greater love than to lay down his life for His friend. Matthew 16:24-25. Love is not perfected yet if you are still afraid as in 1 John 4:18.

    I will just leave some Scriptures for others. How we should focus on things above and not of this world. Live our life for the Lord to do the Will of our Father in Heaven. As all is conditional in that the closer you draw to Him the closer He will draw to you. God Bless you my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

    Colossians 3:1-6, Colossians 3:13-17,

    Matthew 16:27, 1 Peter 1:17,

    Malachi 3:7, James 4:6-8,
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    brother Richard, I know what it (you) mean(s) in my heart!

    :)
  • Richard in Christ on Matthew 27:54
    Hello my brothers and sisters,

    I just feel to write a post explaining my position of my "once saved always saved" feelings. As I will put feelings in two ways in that I am not here to take either side of this "belief" that can be taken out of context in many ways today.

    First is in the eyes of God and our Lord. There is no speculation of who shall be saved to the Lord. As stated He knows His sheep. He knows the hearts of each and every single person. Knowing us better than we know ourselves and who are His. Knowing the end from the beginning.

    In the eyes of man this may become a confusing issue, for some, and is very personal one person to another. Some of us in the Lord have been Blessed to have experienced things in our lives that prove how real Jesus Christ and God our Father are. I have been rebuked by a fellow believer by saying "God chose me". He retorted by stating "you were not chosen but called". I know in my heart God chose me to be His child. Why? Only God knows as I don't see myself better than anyone else.

    As another point I feel is how some people may ask "does Jesus Christ love me no matter what"? As I replied to this question in that I believe the more important question I think people should be asking themselves is "do I really love the Lord"? Even as the mouth is a powerful fire. Just as in this world talk can be cheap. As I'm sure most of us have experienced how a person may say one thing like "I love you" but do they actually show that love from the heart. Or has it just become a phrase?

    We who have been Blessed by the Lord to have been chosen by Him and know this. As me have a fire burning in my heart for the Lord. It is beyond words. Even though I know I am His I still humble myself every night, on my knees, in prayer begging for His great mercy and forgiveness to anything that I may have done that day that was not in His Will. Or anything that may have disappointed Him. Not even knowing If I did anything wrong.. God is so perfect..
  • AARON DEVAPRIYAM - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Sir, thank you very much for the explanation. Praise God
  • Judy on Matthew 27:54
    Do you believe that a person who believes in Jesus & Jehovah will go to heaven when they die? How do you explain Psalms 37?
  • Ron - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    AARON, this is the second harvest, the Feast of Weeks what is called Pentecost. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is from the 15th -21st of Nisan no leavened bread is allowed in the houses or in Jerusalem during that time, these seven days where the only days leaven was not allowed. Passover day the 14th was a preparation day for this feast to clear all leaven out of the houses. The Head of the house would inspect the house using a brush to check even the cracks in the floor. The Feast of First Fruits was the day after the Sabbath following Passover day.

    Jesus was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits the first day of the week. When Jesus first ascended to heaven, he presented himself and was accepted by God the First Fruits of them that slept. This explains why Mary Magdalene could not touch Jesus before he ascended because no one could partake of him before God accepted him.

    The second harvest was fifty days after the Feast of Fruits the day Jesus resurrected. They counted every day until the day after seven sabbaths which is fifty days the meaning of Pentecost. The Festival celebrates the start of the wheat harvest by bringing the first fruits of the harvest as an oblation to the Lord along with the sacrifices prescribed in the Law.

    The feasts were a shadow of things to come, Jesus fulfilled the Passover with His life and blood on the cross, the Feast of Unleavened Bread with His perfect sinless life, the Feast of First Fruits by His resurrection the first harvest which gives us the only hope of eternal life with Him, the Feast of Weeks with the baptism of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost the first fruits of the Spirit. There are three feasts left.

    I hope this helps and was not too much, God bless, Ron
  • AARON DEVAPRIYAM on Matthew 27:54
    In Leviticus 23:17, why God says to bring 2 loaves of bread with LEAVEN? for the First fruits offering?Before it was unleavened bread ? So no leaven to be present to God.
  • Bro Barney - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Prentice,

    I can find nothing in the Bible concerning the "people who run the streets all night long." What you do at "night" is what concerns God, not what time of day it is. Many wonderful things happened during the night according to the Bible. But, we all know form either experience or observation, that people use the night to hide their sins. The question you should be asking is; "what sins am I hiding in the darkness?"
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Indeed it is Earl, and we have entered into His rest as we see in Hebrews 4:10, "For he that is entered into His rest, has also ceased from his own works, just as God did from His.

    So the writer of Hebrews is going back to creation. He's saying if you surrender to Christ, you will be doing just what God did. You will cease from your own works, your own efforts, at your own salvation. You will cease from your own works, and you will enter into God's rest.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Dear Bro Barney,

    The verses you read refer to genuine Christians who are following (and obeying) Christ.

    If you put those verses in context with all the other verses like John 14:15, then you realize obeying is pretty important. Christianity is about following Christ, not a get out of hell free card or an unlimited license to sin. It assumes someone is a genuine Christian who avoids sin and obeys God. Obedience doesn't mean there's no grace either. We're still saved by grace, but we're genuinely trying to avoid sin. Whereas someone deliberately sinning and claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want is in danger. Many will cry out, Lord, Lord, and Jesus will not know them, which includes faux Christians.

    Luke 12:10 this verse alone debunks the once saved always saved belief, because it clearly says this sin will not be forgiven. Also, no one is 'saved' until they are judged after this life. Those who genuinely follow Jesus can have assurance in salvation, but the Word also says to fear God. Luke 12:4.

    I have a feeling these verses won't change anyone's mind once you've made up your mind what you want to believe, but perhaps at least pray about it before suggesting to others that they're saved even if they commit horrific sins and live in the Word and turn their back on Jesus to follow the devil as some Christians sometimes do. Hitler grew up attending church and if you believe OSAS maybe some think Hitler and everyone will be in heaven too along with all other mass murderers. But I don't believe that, I believe satan is trying to convince people they don't need to obey God anymore. God bless.
  • Bro Barney - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Sherry, these verses and many more confirm that salvation, once given, is eternal.

    Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    Do not get standing and relationship confused. Once a person is truly saved, they are made a child of God. This is your standing and you cannot lose it. However, if a person continues in their sin, they can lose their relationship with God. Just like a rebellious child damages their relationship with their parents.

    As for repentance, this is only a recognition of a persons sins and a persons decision to turn away from it. God honors that decision even if we are unable to. Salvation is totally the work of God. He draws us to Jesus who paid the price and if we accept the price, we become His, "is passed from death unto life."
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Richard,

    I do see the parallel in the Parable of the Sower. I love that parable and how the soil represents the heart. The seed that falls into stony places, the Greek text seems to indicate that this is not rocks mixed in with dirt, but an actual cement slab. There's just enough dirt on top of the slab to catch the seed, but not enough for the seed to take root. I notice that out of the four types of soil (Heart conditions) that this seed falls on, only one out of the four describes salvation, and that is the seed that falls on good ground, as you mentioned. That is the only one out of the four that bears fruit. Only a saved person bears fruit.

    And yes, we are His sheep and He knows us (Present Tense). A saved believer, when they stand before the Lord at their appointed time, they will never hear the words "Depart from me, I never knew you."

    I have to admit, I thought I might have received a more negative response because I was a little unsure where you stood on the permanency of salvation. I do enjoy reading your posts and I think we are in agreement with each other on a lot of things.

    Blessings, in Christ Jesus!
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Thank you brother Jesse! My flesh must be your relation!

    :)
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    God bless you brother Richard!

    Made it home, hydrating! Not that the day went exceptionally smooth but it was a good day!

    Grateful and thankful!

    :)
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Brother Carleton,

    Thank you so much for the clarification. I'm sorry I didn't pick up that you were keying in on repentance. I think I'm following you now. I can be a dummy sometimes so please bear with me!

    As I'm reading through your post, there is so much of the Greek coming to my mind and I'm trying not to jumble things up. I do understand God's grace (CHARIS). As far as faith goes, there are two types of faith, human faith, and the faith the Bible speaks about. We all have human faith, but not everyone has the faith that the bible speaks about. That faith only comes from God's Spirit. He is the source. In fact, the Greek word for faith in the bible means persuasion. It's when God's Spirit persuades us to do something.

    And that's what makes sense when you say "Grace to have faith and confess Him and grace to repent in Him, and that God leads us by grace to repentance at the cross." That word faith literally means persuasion. God persuades us and shows us our need for repentance.



    I agree that we are eternally saved at the cross. That's why the bible says we were crucified with Christ. You are at a place where you have found peace at the foot of the cross. Jesus Christ bore all of our sins at the cross, and in Him, all who have received Him are at peace.

    I fully understand what you are saying about the flesh thing. The flesh will never submit to the things of the Lord. Here's something I would like to share with you about the flesh. In my daily life, I find that most of my struggle is not with Satan. Most of my struggle is with Christ because my flesh is continuously trying to get down off that cross.

    But praise God that he is a God of grace and mercy. And He has His ways of dealing with me when I decide to go in a different direction from where He is leading me. And as you know, sometimes it can be harsh. That's how we know we belong to Him. It's when He disciplines us or chastises us when we get out of line!

    God Bless!!!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Sherry,

    I also would like to share this with you and anyone else in this thread about the cost of a Jewish person denouncing Judaism and receiving Christ. A pastor had shared a true story with me about a Jewish man who left Judaism and received Jesus Christ.

    This man lived in NY City. When he gave up on Judaism to follow Christ, his family denounced him. They even held a funeral for him even though he was still alive because they considered him dead.

    And then one day as this man was walking down the street in NY City, he saw his father approaching from the opposite direction. The man waved and called out to him and said "Hey, dad." The dad just stared at him with a blank look. The man said, "Dad, it's me, your son." And he replied back and said, "You can't be my son, my son is dead!"

    That's how serious it is for a Jew to surrender their life to Jesus Christ.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Jesse, the SPIRIT has graced you with HIS truth in your answer to Richard; this is THE SABBATH REST.

    Hebrews 3:1-19

    Hebrews 4:1-16
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Don't overwork yourself brother Carleton. Stay hydrated.

    Many Blessings and peace be upon you.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Matthew 27:54
    Hi Jesse,

    I am glad to hear you liked that verse I posted. I agree with how you explain about "salvation" being lost is really more for them that you may ask "were they ever really saved"? Jesus Christ knows His sheep and is known of them when it is revealed. When it is time for our Father to draw us to Him.

    As the Hebrews had a lot to lose to follow the Lord and give their lives to Him. As I'm sure there are many people today in which their lives in this world may be more important that giving their lives to the Lord. It seems almost to parallel directly to the parable our Lord told us in Matthew 13:18-23. Being they who received seed in stony places or thorns. As us who are saved, and sealed, unto salvation are as they who received seed in good ground and bear good fruit for our Father in Heaven.

    God Bless.


Viewing page: 2 of 10

< Previous Discussion Page    Next Discussion Page >

1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  

 

Do you have a Bible comment or question?


Please view the Comment Guidelines before posting...


2000 characters remain...