Matthew Chapter 24 Discussion Page 23



 
  • Grover F Jackson on Matthew 24:21 - 3 years ago
    There is not going to be a rapture Jesus is coming here the word capture is not in the Bible. It is a false doctrine. Satan comes first 666 6th Seal, 6th Trump and 6th Vial. Jesus is 777. Satan message is he is going to fly you out of here Exzekiel 13.18. God i@ against it
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Isn't a saved person someone whose heart has already been prepared? If the creator of the entire universe lives inside a person's heart, wouldn't that person be prepared and ready? And does a person have to read the New Testament before they can be saved? I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Please elaborate. Thank you!
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Who would you say Matthew wrote his gospel to? I say he wrote it to the Hebrew/Jewish people. Yes, Christ was speaking to His disciples, but who were they, Jews or Gentiles? Yes, Mark was written first. Out of the 661 verses in Mark, Matthew has 500 of them, almost word for word. It shows that Matthew was following Mark's Gospel as a template for his writings. But he still wrote his gospel to the Jewish people. Matthew alludes to or presents over 60 references to the Old Testament, more than double of any other gospel writer because he is using these things to show the Jews that Jesus came, and he shows the fulfillment of the scripture that Jesus fulfilled, showing them, the Jews, that Jesus was the Messiah. There are so many things that Matthew wrote that only a Jew would be able to understand. During Jesus' 3 year ministry, do you think that all those who were following Him were a mixture of both Jew and Gentile? Were they even allowed to intermingle together at that time?



    I believe the day of the Lord only covers the last 3-1/3 years, known as the Great Tribulation. And I do not think I ever said that God's wrath embraces the entire 7 year period. As for resurrection, I know Lazarus was resurrected. When Jesus died and went into the lower parts of the earth, He took with Him all the believers that were in that part of Hades, Abraham's Bosom. I would see that as a resurrection. Here is my understanding. The Lord will come for His church, the dead in Christ will rise first (resurrection), and then we which are alive with be caught up to meet them, and Him in the air. This is not the Lord's second coming. This is Him coming to remove His church from the wrath to come. At His second coming, He will literally step foot onto the Mount of Olives. That is His second coming. And He will rule and reign for 1,000 years. There will be another resurrection after the 1,000 year reign. That resurrection will be for the wicked. They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell).
  • Chris - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Page 2

    Was the Tree of KoGaE a corrupt tree, as you have said? I simply don't believe so. It was in God's Design & was perfect. However, it was their wrong choice in partaking of its delights that opened their eyes to know good & evil. Could Jesus be tempted to sin & sin? No, the temptation was there, but Satan's encounter with Jesus was to cause a sin nature to become a part of Jesus' Being so that Jesus would fail as God's Son & Sacrifice. So we get back to God's Design in sending His Son into a corrupt world & back to A & E: God wanted to shield them from that trait of knowing the difference between good & evil becoming a part of them as they were 'wholly good, obedient & without sin'. But they chose unwisely under Satan's appeal to the only route 'into them' available to him, i.e. their power of choice. Did God know that was going to happen? For sure, or else He wouldn't be God. I couldn't align your illustrations of an earthly scenario of weeds, bad trees & trash as contradictions of a perfect condition - not the same as Eden, different because corruption is already in existence.

    You state, "The world they were created into was flawed". I find that very difficult to grasp since God does not create things purposely with a flaw or blemish just to achieve His Design & Purpose. The world wasn't flawed at first, but became corrupt with the introduction of sin. And yes, God knew this would happen, but it was not a part of the Perfect Design; I would say it was a part of His Perfect Knowledge & His Whole Plan into Eternity allowed for it. To the 'Tree' again: you state, "it (Eden) had a very bad, corrupt Tree right smack in the middle of it". Sorry, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tree, or any of the trees/plants in Eden. If so, when they ate of it, they should have perished from the poison, or at least had some major medical issues, but the fruit appeared enticing to the eyes/flesh & delicious to the taste. Tree was good - choice was bad.
  • Chris - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Page 1.

    Carlos, thank you for your comments: it seems that we are narrowing down in our understanding on this. So, I do agree that the potential was there for all creation to be susceptible to corruption, so I will focus now on 'defining perfection'.

    Of course, we must agree to the fact that God Himself is Perfect in every way. Could we dare say that He could be corrupted? God forbid to even suggesting this, except for this purpose of understanding the matter. Therefore, he made man (& the heavenly host) in perfection (i.e. in a perfect world & man from 'perfect' dust). I can't fathom that any of God's creative Work could be anything else than perfect, or God (as we know Him from the Word) isn't God. Yes, the potential to corruption is there, but God's design & execution of creation was without flaw.

    You said, "They (A & E) were not created perfect because, from my perspective, something perfect, free will or not, would not make the wrong choices". We're made in God's Image & by His Hand. But He gave us as part of that Design, the ability to choose, as is a part of His Nature. Has God the power of choice? Yes. If that were not so, Adam/Eve would just obey God unquestioningly, going about their earthly business & routine without ever making decisions over anything that came up to them: true perfection indeed! But God's design included the ability to choose & Satan seeing this, came to 'road test' this Divine Work (I think of Job, as well). Did God bring Satan? No, Satan did according to his charater: to oppose the Most High & all that are associated with Him. (onto Page 2)
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Robert Marino, your post is worth repeating below.

    "It's that simple. Get ready. Prepare your heart. These things were written to Christ's followers, not those who dont' even read the New Testament. It will be too late for them when everything hits the fan to start reading about preparing. Too late then. Jesus knew what was coming on those 7 churches in Asia Minor and gave them warning, encouragement, exhortation and rebuke. The modern lukewarm church in America is not going to get raptured when it needs purified much more than any other century. It is very important to keep our hearts right and have Jesus as our first love."
  • Robert Marino - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    It's that simple. Get ready. Prepare your heart. These things were written to Christ's followers, not those who dont' even read the New Testament. It will be too late for them when everything hits the fan to start reading about preparing. Too late then. Jesus knew what was coming on those 7 churches in Asia Minor and gave them warning, encouragement, exhortation and rebuke. The modern lukewarm church in America is not going to get raptured when it needs purified much more than any other century. It is very important to keep our hearts right and have Jesus as our first love.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Good grief, I've been following this conversation from the very beginning, but it seems to be heading south!
  • Adam - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Hello, most Christians disagree with this. God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill. The creation was perfect, but they chose to sin under their own freewill. The sin reflects on Adam and Eve's own decisions, not God's. God didn't create robots. If he did would robots meet the definition of 'perfect' to you? If your own kids were robots would you consider that perfect too? Others find deeper meaning if they have freewill and CHOSE to say 'I love you dad' under their own decision, rather than being forced to say it artificially. Earth is a place to choose good or evil, to choose if you want to follow God or not. Freewill is a very loving gift to have and that gift is perfect. What we choose to do ourselves is what is imperfect and isn't right to blame that on God. Take care.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Well Jesse, let me tell you things God can use to change your mind. Or maybe He will change mine. I share your understanding of what Matthew says, but not that it is directed to Jews. Christ was speaking to His Disciples, therefore to all of us that follow Him. It is believed that the Gospel of Mark was written 1st and both Matthew and Luke used it as a basis for theirs, to include specific details. Matt 24 is the same as Lk 21 and Mark 13. But Paul, who spoke to the Gentile Churches, says exactly the same thing in 2 These 2. And the imagery in the OT, 1 These 4 and Revelation is the same concerning the Coming and the Rapture. You can't have the same events taking place for the Rapture, that are the same for the Coming, unless they are one and the same.

    A mistake made is to think of the entire Tribulation period as the Day of the Lord or Day of Wrath. If you read Revelation carefully, the language identifies these at taking place at the last hour of the Great Tribulation. And if you outline the events, you find there is a progression of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls of His Wrath that place the Bowls at the end of the end of the end. The Seals are opened and at the last Seal, Trumpets are introduced. Then at the last trumpet, the Bowls of Wrath are poured. So, Wrath doesn't embrace the entire 7 years period.

    It is that last Bowl of Wrath, at the last Trumpet, in the last Seal, that we will be spared from. That's when we are called to meet Christ in the air. And as Bob Hilt pointed out, there are only 2 resurrections. Think about that.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Chris, you say, "Adam & Eve were not created in corruption, rather they were created perfect, had a free will but chose wrongly." I partially agree. But I add, they were created in an existence susceptible to the potential of corruption. I disagree that they were created perfect and made a wrong choice.

    They were not created perfect because, from my perspective, something perfect, free will or not, would not make the wrong choices. Something capable of making wrong choices is not perfect. You can't make an unsinkable boat that sinks. It is a logical contradiction. For man to have been created perfect, he had to have been created with a perfect will. A car with an engine that can break immediately after you turn it on, is not a perfect car. In the case of Adam and Eve, they lacked the ability to distinguish between good and evil. That inability is what got them into trouble.

    Perfection is defined as the absence of fault or defect, with total accuracy and maturity. Adam didn't meet that standard. God did declare them good, but it was in terms of God's Purpose. They were perfectly suited for Christ.

    The world they were created into was flawed. The Garden was not perfect. Why? Because it had a very bad, corrupt Tree right smack in the middle of it. Is a garden full of weeds a perfect garden? Would you like to live in a house by a stream that stinks of perdition? Not a perfect setting for a house, is it? So why did God put Adam in this beautiful Garden, then dropped a bomb on him? Wait a minute, you might complain. I just moved into this brand new house and you are going to build a mountain of trash, a dump, right next to my back yard? What is wrong with that picture? So God plants this Tree in my yard, then tells me to stay away from it? What's up with that? Sorry God, you might say, but couldn't you take that stinky Sycamore and bury it in the coldest depths of the Martian landscape? Why here?

    Oops! Sorry Adam. I didn't realize you were so sensitive.
  • Robert Marino - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Type this title PRE-TRIB RAPTURE: TRUE OR FALSE? in the youtube search. I should be the only one with this name. highlight, copy and paste it into the youtube browser so you had all the spacing right.

    I'm just getting the channel started and learning the software so bear with me. It would be great if you subscribe and also take the two minute survey and maybe pass it on to others to take. I'm trying to do a survey on end times that has never been done. You can put your answers in the comments section or email them. I'm not going to say I know it all as none of us do. But I have put 5 to 7 years into really studying the history of the view I held to for over 30 years to find some serious problems. I hope to help others see these same truths.

    Hope to have you on board.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Robert Marino, How do we find you in YouTube?
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Robert Marino, That is exactly right. You shed much needed light on this matter. Many will be waiting for a coming that won't happen. And people will mock us and say, where is your God. Didn't you say He was coming. Isn't that a familiar sound in Scripture?

    The message from Christ is not just for a little bit of worthless information, if we won't be here. It is a serious warning to Prepare. Be ready Spiritually, socially and politically. ISIS was no joke to those living in Iraq and Syria. And Christians died brutal deaths under their control. Were they prepared? Did they know ISIS would be such brutal animals? We have an opportunity to prepare for much worse. Will we heed the warning?

    Your analogy of the Oil is spot on. We see it now. We see how persecution of Christians and Jews is increasing worldwide. That includes in the US and European Union. A Muslim is now given rights governors and mayors are taking away from Christians and Jews. A Christian stands to preach in a public square and is arrested. Jews gather for a funeral and are hosed down and arrested.

    Good thing its that in those last days God will pour out His Spirit on Believers, for strength and authority. Some trust in chariots, but we trust in the Lord Jesus.

    I will look for your site on YouTube. Thank you.
  • Mishael - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Oil in the Bible usually represents the Holy Spirit or the anointing of the Holy Spirit.. ... You know, a lamp that runs out of oil can no longer give light, and is useless in that condition.

    The center column in the Bible references to 2 Timothy 3:5 (or 2 Tim: 1-7) which begins with "This know also, in the last days perilous times shall come"

    Verse 5:Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, from such turn away.

    In Jewish weddings the Bridegroom goes to the Brides home and picks her up to go to the Wedding. She's supposed to be ready to go THEN. Not be wrangling with foolish virgins who failed to go to Walmart before it closed.

    We are to be wise virgins. Have our lamps full, all the wedding gear, and awaiting for a knock on the door. Listening intently.

    Why would we make ourselves miss the knock, chasing around with scatterbrained virgins?

    ******************

    Mishael was on my birth certificate by mistake ? when I was born. It was corrected to something else that means the same thing: WHO!!! is like God.
  • Chris - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Carlos, just to keep my response brief: I fully agree with your interpretation of Acts 2:23, that God foreknew that Christ would be delivered & slain. In fact, I would even say that it was God's Plan since it was part of His complete Redemptive Work. That Esau would serve Jacob, I agree that was God's Plan. That Herod, Pilate & the Gentiles were also part of God's Plan, I concur. Sorry, I can't remember making reference to the '1000 years is as one day'.

    So with all that agreement with you (as above), where then is my problem? I think it is essentially in the days of Creation & in the workings of Satan. To restate: Adam & Eve were not created in corruption, rather they were created perfect, had a free will but chose wrongly. Was this in God's Plan? No. Was this in God's Knowledge? Yes. Did their sinning catch God by surprise? No. Did he plan for Satan to be there & entice them? No. Did God know that Satan would do this & succeed? Yes. Did God's future Plan to deal with Satan & corrupted man part of His Plan? Yes. So, what I'm saying here is that God doesn't cause or Plan for people to sin. Why? simply that a Holy God cannot have a part in someone's sin; to sin is the choice of the sinner, not of God. Yet God knew they would sin. Did God cause Satan to test Job's faith in God? No, it was Satan who prompted the test with a caveat from God. Did He cause Satan & the angels who followed him to sin? No, they chose to do so.

    So I've given some examples of where we could differ; you could probably give more to learn my response. So, I don't believe He causes anyone to sin because it is in 'His Plan' to do so. Each one is responsible for their own choices. But God knew who would sin, both human & angel alike, & then had His Plan ready for whatever He deemed correct. So, am I saying that a Plan was created after the act? No, God already knows what will happen but not the instigator of a sinful act just to fulfil His Plan. So, I think it is on this point that we differ.
  • Robert Marino - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Hi Mishael,

    Do you know what your name means? I never saw that before. Is it a form of Michael? I hope we can discuss this in a godly manner.

    YOU:

    The oil for the lamps is the Holy Spirit.

    ME:

    In this parable, did not ALL the virgins have oil at one time and why are they called virgins? The five foolish virgins had oil but then ran out. Where the five wise virgins had oil but ALSO

    Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

    Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

    Mat 25:8 and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;

    Mat 25:9 and the prudent answered, saying-Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves.
  • Mishael ON Matthew 251-12 - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    The oil for the lamps is the Holy Spirit.

    The bridegroom took the virgins that had their oil lamps full and the went to the marriage supper. Matthew 25:1-12

    Like Noah's ark, THE DOOR WAS SHUT.

    Verse 11: Lord, Lord, open to us!

    Verse 12: He opens the door and says,

    I KNOW YOU NOT.

    Sounds similar to some other stories, like:

    Didn't we prophesy in your name? Cast out demons in your name? Chapter 7 verses 21-23.

    Clearly this indicating mid-trib. Scripture writes that after the dead in Christ are raised, then those alive in Christ, will go with Him to a marriage supper as the Bride of Christ.

    Enter the Antichrist to begin his reign of terror. One world money, one world religion, one world government. Sorta like game of thrones but it's not a game.

    Why not skip it and be born again NOW?

    Will YouTube steal away your first Love?

    Will you be captured by wizards that peep and mutter (remember AOL days; logging online?) Isaiah heard that maybe.

    Stay true to your first love.

    As disciples of Jesus, we are supposed to be reaching out to the lost. You can do that here, if you can spare time from dissecting doctrine. I mean no harm. I say it longingly.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Chris, there are really 3 words. Plan, Purpose and Foreknowledge. Although they are all closely related, let me start with a definition Foreknowledge, although you're probably already familiar with it. I think, and I have adopted the position of the Reformers, because it is the most appropriate. Foreknowledge, as used in the Bible, is more closely associated with 'Pre-Ordination'. Acts 2:23 says God delivered Christ up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God.

    Some ascribe it to God's intuition or omniscience. But there are philosophical, theological and historical issues with it. What God knows will be a historical fact or event, He can't change. Why? Because if God knows something, He knows it to be fact. If God 'knows' Christ is going to die on the Cross and something, God Himself changes it, then He was mistaken. What we can say He knew is that Christ was going to be crucified, but He changed it to something else.

    Instead, God tells us in Isa 44-48 that He can do things at that moment. So, God knows things about what is going to happen and He tells us about them, not because He is somehow intuitively aware of the Future, but because He planned it that way. That is how He wanted it to happen. Rom 8, Isa 46:10-13.

    God doesn't just know beforehand what is going to happen, He makes it happen that way. When God said Esau would serve Jacob, He also said that's the way He intended it. That was His doing, not a natural consequence of events He just happened to be aware of beforehand. The argument is that limiting God to 'Foreknowledge' about the Future, limits Him. Why? Because He could only do what He knows He is going to do, not what He wants to do.

    Acts 4:28, They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

    That said, the fact that God is Omniscient cannot be denied or diminished. But to argue that 1,000 years is like a day, to support Omniscience, takes the verses out of context Ps 90:4. Reference is to speed of time.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Carlos,

    I don't recall saying that Matthew Chapter 24 is the only chapter that was written for the Jews. However, I did say that the entire book of Matthew was written to the Hebrew/Jewish people, Matthew himself also being Jewish. I also know that from Hebrews to the end of Revelation, that section of the bible is known as Jewish Literature. I don't personally know any Jewish people myself, but I believe there are many who have come to know the Lord and I can only assume they read the words of Jesus. Did Jesus need to say this is for the Jews for us to know who He was speaking to? I don't see anywhere in His teachings where He says this is to the Gentiles either. I've already agreed with you that Christ's second coming is after the 7 Year Tribulation.

    I still see the message Jesus is giving in Matthew 24 and 25 as being a warning to the nation of Israel, the Jews, to watch for those things. If I have Christ living in me, I have already been made ready. While the unbelieving world is going through a horrendous time of wrath on this earth, I will be at the wedding feast with the Lord until I return with Him at His second coming. As I mentioned in my previous reply, we differ in our understanding of the timing of the rapture. I respect your view, and I'm not trying to convince you to change it. And in all fairness to you, I hope that you would not to spend too much of your time and effort trying to change my view.

    My view can be changed, but it will take the Lord to change it. All I can do here is share my understanding with others. That's all any of us here can do. It is nice to have a forum where we can share our understanding, even if we don't agree with each other? God's word alone is truth. It's not what I say that is truth, and not what you say that is truth. I take what people say and I have respect for what they share, but I have an obligation to search the scriptures, and I do.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Hello Carlos,

    I'll be quick in my response. First of all, I know that Matthew was written to Hebrew or Jewish people. And I am not saying that we as Gentiles cannot find value in it, as there are many teachings that we can benefit from. But it was written to the Jews. Secondly, I am not going to engage back and forth with you on the timing of the rapture, as our last discussion thread got shut down by the moderators of this site.

    I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and you believe otherwise. I respect that. No issues here. Wouldn't it be nice if every single believer believed the exact same thing? But that will never happen. As far as commentaries go, there are many out there. I read commentaries from time to time, and there are so many of them out there. But no matter what topic you look up, not all commentaries agree with each other. So which commentaries should we believe, only the ones that match our own understanding?

    I do appreciate having conversations with you. We're not always going to agree with each other, but I'm sure there are some things we can agree on?
  • Robert Marino - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Wow dude. Awesome! We WILL go through tribulation and anyone teaching otherwise will be seen as a false teacher/prophet/pastor when the time comes.

    Why do we need oil in Matthew 25:1-13? Oil is need to make light. Why do we need light? It is going to get really dark for the true believers.

    Matthew 24 and 25 are for the 70 AD generation and our generation. The Christians at the time living in Jerusalem and those in the 7 churches of Asia Minor needed to read these things for during their time to encourage them to not give up just as Jesus said to be ready in our time. It's a Dual Prophecy. Mostly fulfilled in the first century, partially fulfilled in all centuries after and will climax like a mother giving birth in our last generation.

    Can you take my poll on my new youtube channel?

    I wold appreciate it if you could and anyone else you can get to take it. It takes about 2 minutes to fill out.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Jesse, in addition to what I previously mentioned, the teaching that Matt 24, and no other Chapter in the NT, is for the Jews, is not supported by the narrative. Additionally, how many Jews that you know of read or pay attention to the words of Jesus? And if it were the case it was for Jews, why didn't Jesus say, "This is for the Jews. But I will be coming for you before that. So don't even worry about it."?

    Jesus, Paul, Peter and John tell us about the Second Coming, but never mention a pre-appearance. Why? The only direct reference we have, and it comes from the Source Himself, Jesus, is in Matt 24:29. Jesus said, Immediately After the Great Tribulation.

    If there is a Clandestine Appearance, Jesus and the rest of the Bible are totally silent on it.

    Make a note of this. Every reference to Christ's return uses the same language; The Moon, Sun, Trumpet, Clouds, Gathering, Shout, White Robes, Saints, Thief in the Night: expressions associated with the Coming.

    But why is knowing when Christ comes so important? Is it just information? It is important as a warning to the Church to prepare, to be ready, not just for His coming, but for the Tribulation. How often do we discuss what to do in case of ISIS- like persecution? How real are the beheadings of Christians throughout the world to us? That's one of the things Christians should be focused on. How will we handle persecution? What will we do? Where will we go for food and shelter if evicted? Or when police come for our children, as the Nazis did in the 1940's? Where do we hide? How will we proclaim Christ in that time of trouble? Will we defend ourselves with arms? Will we know who the other Christians are by the sign of a fish?

    There is no more alarming call for the Church than Christ Himself telling us to Prepare for the coming Great Tribulation. And if they say Christ is here or there, don't believe them. That is the message of Matthew 24-25. Might He come after Passover Ch 26? Will there be churches?
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    Jesse, Good try, but consider this. Is there a logical transition in Matthew 24:16, that turns the conversation to the Jews? The discourse begins with Jesus and his followers (disciples), which Mark 13 says included Peter, James, John and Andrew. The message of Christ is to Believers. To His followers. Mention of Judea, which happens often in the NT, is not enough.

    The Pulpit Commentary might shed some light on this.

    "Christians seem to have taken this advice when the city was attacked by Costius Gallus, about A.D. , some three or more years before the siege under Vespasian. Gallus had appeared before the walls, and apparently had every hope of taking the city, when, for some reason not certainly known (either owing to a supposed defeat, or ignorance of his own success, or the advice of his generals), he suddenly withdrew his forces (Josephus, 'Bell. Jud.,' 2:19, 6, 7). The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella."

    I don't know why prophecies have historical "shadows" of what is to come, but clearly, mention of Judea does not mean the message was for the Jews. We can't argue in favor of something, from silence. At best, we can say Christ mentioned Judea because He was in Judea. Matt 4:25 says, "Large crowds from Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him."

    As most likely with you, I was taught a dispensationalist view of Scripture. And there are things in that that make sense. But, Christ is warning all of us that the Coming and our gathering up to Him will be Immediately After the Great Tribulation. That's why He goes on to warn us to be prepared, in Chapter 25. There is no Pre-Trib Rapture. As Bob Hilt pointed out, if there were, then there would have to be more than 2 resurrections. Two are mentioned. One at the Coming and Rapture of Christ and then the 2nd.
  • Bob Hilt - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    If Jews are all of Israel and they are the chosen people...then why did the Lord DIVORCE THEM?

    Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of DIVORCE divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    (Part-2)

    Tim,

    In Verse 30, the word "tribes" would show us that Jesus is talking about Jews. And then again in Verse 31, the gathering of the elect, that word "elect" is referring to Jews. It starts getting interesting beginning at Verse 33. Jesus says, So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. In Verse 34, the word "generation" is referring to a race of people. He's talking about Jews.

    Now Verses 37-41 give us the preconditions to the coming of Christ. I find Verses 37-39 to be quite interesting, and I think this might tie in to what you are talking about. 37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    After God shut the door on the ark, how long was it until it started raining? One week! I see that as prophecy. After the door was shut on the ark, the unbelievers still didn't know the judgment was coming. But they were warned. Noah and His family were closed up and safe in the ark for a week before the judgment came upon the non-believing world. That is why it says they didn't know it until the flood came. The flood came and took them all away. It was life as usual until it came, and it was sudden, and it was quick, and it was unexpected.

    For me, I see the parallel between the ark and Daniel's 70th week. I see believers being caught up to be safe with the Lord for that final week (7 yr. period) while the unbelievers are carrying on as usual until the judgment hits them, just like in the days of Noah being safe in the ark for 7 days until the flood came.

    Well, I know I've rambled a lot here, but I just wanted to share my perspective and understanding of Matthew 24.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    (Part 1)

    Tim,

    I would like to share with you my understanding of Matthew Chapter 24. Matthew Chapters 24 and 25 deal with the end-time prophecies. There are four sections in Chapter 24 that represent the 70th week of Daniel.

    Section 1: "The Pains of Birth" Verses 4-14. Section 2: Matthew 24:15 is "The Pivotal Point." Section 3: Matthew 24:16-28, "The Perils of Tribulation." And then fourthly, Verses 29 to 31 is "The Promise of His Coming," given to us in Isaiah 13:10 and 34:4, Joel 2:10 and 3:15, 7:13, Isaiah 27:13, and Zechariah 12:10.

    Beginning at verse 3 of Chapter 24, the disciples are looking for answers as to when these things are going to happen. Jesus then begins answering, and from Verses 4-14, He gives the details of the first 3-1/2 years of the tribulation, known as the pains of birth. In Verse 15, we have the pivotal point, the abomination of desolation.

    Then in Verse 16, we see that Jesus is talking to Jewish believers. Actually, I believe the entire Chapter is given to Jewish believers. But Jesus tells them to flee. Verses 16 to 28 talk about the perils of tribulation, the last 3-1/2 years of the 7 year Tribulation period. It's going to be a very severe time.

    Verse 22 is showing us that if God did not have a time period when He says okay I am going to stop, everybody would be wiped out.

    But for the sake of the elect, a special word brought over from the O.T. as a title for the Jewish people. They are His elect people. It doesn't mean they are all saved but they are His chosen people. He realizes there are 144,000 of them out there, plus all the others who believed, and this is something that is going to happen in the last part of the tribulation period.

    Verses 29-31, we have the promise of His coming. I recently shared the actual 7 Steps of a Jewish Wedding. If we understand those 7 steps, it helps to understand the coming of Christ and some of the Jewish views about when Christ is coming back. Those steps are fascinating!
  • Tim Moriarty on Matthew 24:38 - 3 years ago
    I know that Mathew 24 is all about the 2nd coming and NOT the rapture. That said; I wonder how Mathew 24:38 can be; because at the time of the 2nd coming, the world will be in such chaos that things can not be "normal" as the verse implies? I wonder if it refers to the Jews that have been protected during the 2nd half of the tribulation? Or even if it were to refer to the "goats", even they will be in complete chaos?
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - In Reply on Matthew 24:29 - 3 years ago
    I agree. As we read the Bible, we come up with slightly different perspectives and one of those has to do with the time of the Rapture.

    Please, show me your timeline of events recorded in Scripture about the End Time? I will list mine below. Please clarify. Thanks.

    1. THE ANTICHRIST. Daniel 7-12

    Daniel 9:27 - And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.

    2. THE ANTICHRIST EXALTS HIMSELF OVER GOD IN THE TEMPLE.

    Matthew 24:15 - when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation

    3. THE GREAT TRIBUALTION.

    Matthew 24:21 - at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world

    Revelation 7:14 - These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Revelation 20:4 - I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the Beast.

    4. THE COMING OF CHRIST and RAPTURE.

    2 Thessalonians 2:1 - Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him

    Matthew 24:3 - when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming

    Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation

    Daniel 7:13 - and I saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven

    1 Thessalonians 4 - we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds

    Mark 13:26 - At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.d And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

    Revelation 18:4, - Come out of her, My people.

    19:1f For the marriage of the Lamb.
  • Bob Hilt - In Reply on Matthew 24:29 - 3 years ago
    Jesse I suspect you do not understand the difference between judgment of the Church, the wrath of satan and the wrath of God. Please allow me to explain.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth (angry) with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    If anyone chooses to disbelieve that the woman here is the bride of Christ, that is on them. well if there is show me from the scriptures please I want to know.

    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE one in Christ Jesus.

    Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

    There is only one bride, there is not a Jewish bride and another Christian Gentile brideS

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth (angry) with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Getting killed for Christ is not the wrath of God, otherwise Stephen, the prophets and the apostles who were killed suffered the wrath of God which is ridiculous.

    Noah was saved in the flood, Daniel was saved in the Lion's den, the 3 Hebrew children were saved in the furnace.

    God's wrath is poured out upon the wicked world, just like the plagues of Egypt. God's children did not suffer the plagues of Egypt and neither will his children in the tribulation who survive the wrath of the Satan.

    You should do a little history on the fate of the millions of Christians murdered in Communist Russia under Stalin.

    All we hear about is the 6 million.


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