Matthew Chapter 17 Discussion



 
  • GiGi - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Hello Jude,

    In this chapter Jesus had sent his disciples out to preach the gospel of the kingdom and to cast out demons, heal people, and do other signs and wonders. When a youth was brought before Jesus with a demon who terrorized and injured the youth, Jesus cast the demon out with His authority, which the demons must obey.

    But the disciples had already tried to cast out the demon from this person and it did not come out. When they asked why this was so, Jesus first replied that it is because of their unbelief but then goes on to say that this type of demon does not come out except through prayer and fasting.

    So, perhaps Jesus was saying that one must have faith that the demons will obey the command (as Jesus did) and second, that if a demon does not remove themselves from a person, even when commanded in faith, then one may need to spend time in prayer and fasting to be strengthened spiritually before confronting this demon again. It may have been a more powerful demon than the ones the disciples were able to cast out. Or maybe the disciples needed to learn humility through prayer and fasting so as not to confront such a demon with arrogance and self-will.

    Whatever the reason for the prayer and fasting, Jesus was certainly teaching that one who is called to cast out demons should not walk away from the person if the demon does not come out when they first command. The called one is take these additional steps and continue to command the demon to leave until it does. The one called is to have compassion for the one possessed, seeking to bring relief and restoration to the person more than seeking to see a miracle happen. Jesus instructed His disciples to persevere and labor in prayer, denying themselves physical food in order that they will be spiritually submitted to God's strength in them when they feel physically weakened by the discipline of prayer and fasting. This may also indicate that demons are much stronger and more clever than humans.
  • Jude on Matthew 17
    What does Matthew 17:21 refer to?
  • David - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Jesse. Yep!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 17
    David,

    Yes, that is what the Hebrew says in Exodus 3:14, I will be what I will be, but in the very same verse, God says to tell the children of Israel I AM has sent me unto you. In Exodus 3:13, Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say unto me, What is His name? What shall I say unto them?

    God's response was to tell them I AM has sent you. Jesus also claimed to be the I AM of the Old Testament. I do agree with you that there are so many different interpretations of who the I AM is. I'm not sure about 100, but if ours is different than those 100 scholars, I guess we can bump that number up to 102!
  • David - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Jesse. The old testament reference I am that I am is God saying I will be what

    I will be, I'm intrigued by how many individuals state this is what it means

    Absolutely and yet their are 100 absolute interpretations, by even different

    Scholars. Just an observation. Answers for the different denominations

    Unfortunately that not what our Father intended.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 17
    (Part 2):

    When Jesus said to them "I AM," they went backward and fell to the ground. Could this have been the same voice and power of God they heard in Matthew Chapter 17, the voice of the great I AM that caused them to fall over?

    Well, it was very powerful. All Jesus said in response was I AM, and they fell over backwards, all of them including Judas. But the funny part of this is that they must have got up because Jesus asks them the second time "Whom seek ye?"



    Now if they had any sense at all, after what just happened to them, when Jesus asked the second time, "Who are you looking for," I would have said, "Never mind, He is not here!" I would have just turned around and gone the other way. Why is Jesus doing this? To show that He is in charge, to show His power, the same power that Peter, James, and John got to see at His transfiguration, the power of God Himself!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Lorraine,

    Matthew 17:1-8, the transfiguration of Christ is very powerful. They (Peter, James, and John) got to see something amazing. Verse 2 says that He was transfigured before them. A more accurate word would be transformed rather than transfigured. In fact, it is the Greek word where we get our English word metamorphosis from. He was completely changed in form and in substance. He was transformed before them. But notice His countenance: His face did shine as the sun; Notice His clothing: and his raiment with white as the light. So we are talking about transformation!

    I agree that that alone should have been enough knock them over. It wasn't until verse 6 (As David mentions) that they fell over. They fell over once they heard the voice from heaven. But there was so much power and energy force there that would have knocked anyone over.

    Now here is something I also find interesting. In John Chapter 19, we see this same power being demonstrated as we see in Matthew Chapter 17. When they came to arrest Jesus in the garden, and some historians say that there were at least 1,000 people that came to arrest Him. We know that Judas came with them because it was Judas that led them to this place where they could find Jesus.

    But look what transpired. In Verse 4, Jesus says, "Whom seek ye?" Who are you looking for? Now this part is awesome. After they told Jesus who they were looking for, Jesus says, and please notice this because it is very different than any of the English translations. Jesus said unto them "I AM." He did not say I am He. He just said I AM (EGO EMI), the name of God in the Old Testament.

    I am running out of space so I will send a (Part 2)
  • David - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Lorraine. When you look at verse six in that event they did fall on their faces.
  • Lorraine Magarian on Matthew 17
    Verse 2 - it's amazing that the three didn't fall down when they first saw The Transfigured LORD!
  • Patrick J Reilly - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Thank yu again, Chris.

    Very informative.

    Happy Easter!
  • Giannis - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Eliyyah is Hebrew, Elias is the Greek form of that.
  • Patrick J Reilly - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Thank you for the informative explanation.

    God bless!
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Concerning this passage Patrick, I believe that the Lord Jesus may have explained to His disciples that Elias (Elijah) who came, came in the spirit & power as was seen endued in the person of John the Baptist. The Angel of the Lord spoke to Zacharias (John's father) of the prophecy that was upon his coming son: Luke 1:17, "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." This was not Elijah reincarnated, but the man John the Baptist who would display the same zeal & power of words & action as did Elijah.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Actually Patrick, the KJV shows the name as 'Elias' not Elisha (two different people). And Elias is another form of the name 'Elijah' (from the Hebrew, Eliyyah). So the RSV & KJV both speak of the same man, Elijah.
  • Patrick J Reilly on Matthew 17
    Why does New Revised Standard Version refer to Elijah in vs 10-13 while this King James Version speaks of Elisha?
  • Patrick J Reilly on Matthew 17
    In Matthew 17 vs 10-1 it speaks of Elias already come and they didn't recognize him.

    Why in vs 13 does it say the disciples understood that he was speaking of John the Baptist?
  • Mishael - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Use the SEARCH BOX and type in the word, LOTS or

    CAST LOTS.

    It's a form of gambling; it was used to ask God a question.
  • T Levis - in Reply on Matthew 17
    1Timothy 5:8, please read 1Timothy 5, for context, it's not just talking about immediate family but providing for Aunts.

    Titus 1:7, 1Corinthians 4:2, Luke 19, Luke 12, Matthew 25,

    Matthew 27:35, John 19:24, Psalms 22:18, Mark 15:24, Luke 23:34, Joel 3:3, Obediah 1:11, Nahum 3:10, Esther 3:7-15, Esther 9:24,

    Leviticus 16:8-10, Numbers 26:55,56, Numbers 33:54, Numbers 34:13, Jonah 1:7, Acts 1:26,

    Proverbs 16:33, Proverbs 18:18, Luke 1:9,
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Dear Tina,

    Here's some possible related verses on this page: Link

    I don't believe gambling is inherently a sin. the definition is "Wagering of money on a game of chance or event with an uncertain outcome." But there's way more things that fit that description that just pulling a slot machine or playing cards, such as betting your friend a free lunch if you win something, hot dog eating contest, couponing, investing, buying a house, buying a car, protecting against inflation, buying a lottery ticket, staying at a hotel with no online reviews, prize money for local fair contests, all sporting events, spending money on a movie you hope is good. These all fit the definition.

    Some of these activites are actually supported by scripture, such as the parable of the talents, not burying our money, but investing wisely. Also not putting a house on sand but solid ground, being responsible and prudent.

    But the Bible doesn't specifically say gambling is a sin, I believe its just tradition from fundamentalists who assumed that, similar to dancing. But what is clearly defined as sin is if we make something an idol and put it as a false god above God. Addiction to anything can be a sin, whether gambling, food, alcohol, bad movies, images, sugar, or anything that abuses ourselves (which is like abusing God's creation).
  • Richard H Priday - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Interesting; in the fact that it came up in discussion in small group tonight. 1 Tim. 5:8 gives us a clue; as to the effect of such action; and states that those who do not care for the needs of their family are worse than an infidel. There is; simply put no specific verse about gambling. But there is the verse that states if we know the right thing to do and don't do it to us it is sin ( James 4:7).

    In theory; one could be a genius who can memorize a deck of cards; or who has proven to win more than lose in a particular game; or balance out amounts bet so that in time they are ahead or in the black. If they were willing to provide for others including their own budget and needs by allocating earnings and expenses as one would with any other method of employment and strictly stopped when they had spent the amount allocated; and had enough invested on the side to sustain them; and or other means of income then conceivably they could make such an occupation a career or side job. Most casinos; of course would tire having losses themselves with such individuals present at their establishment.

    The temptations for overspending; greed; and the other vices such as drinking; and pornography so often available at such establishments; and not doing such things around others who have an addiction to gambling would be very hard to avoid. The specific question of someone with an offering made under gambling raises these issues. The vast majority of those who play games of chances are from those who are at best seduced by the world; and are likely to be ensnared while they systematically destroy their lives and that of their family. There is the warning of a "double minded man" being unstable in all his ways ( James 1:8). We cannot love both God and mammon according to Christ. I cannot see how such an occupation can be an effective witness; nor how it can demonstrate trusting God to provide for our needs; even if it isn't specifically listed as a sin.
  • Tina Lyons on Matthew 17
    were in the Bible tells you about gambling,its a sin
  • David Williams on Matthew 17
    I give thanks and pray every night before I go to bed, when I rise and during the day. When in the mountains is when I feel the closest. Boulders, grass, trees and the fast running water. I feel God made that area for us. May all be blessed by the Lord.
  • GiGi - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Dear Mary.

    Me, too!

    Thanks for the uplifting post raising up praise to our Great God! Hallelujah
  • Mary White on Matthew 17
    To God Be All The Glory. I am grateful for each morning I have been awaken

    by the Holy Spirit.
  • Becky Fairman on Matthew 17
    I love this verse regarding the Mustard Seed can move mountains, because it is good to believe and have faith and all is possible with the love of God!!!, JESUS IS LORD!!!Amen
  • BSP on Matthew 17
    Verse 20-nothing will be impossible for us with faith. Our faith can enable us to do things that from a human perspective may seem impossible.
  • Dianne - in Reply on Matthew 17
    David Keeping it simple because his ministry was to the Gentiles.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Hello David. It seemed that at this particular time, the Lord had other plans for Paul (& Silas). As you recall, in Acts 16:1-5, Paul was already in Asia (Minor) ministering, & he wanted to continue to reach out to those regions (as he had a heart for them, seeing that he was also from there: from Tarsus, Cilicia). So as he purposed to go further in Phyrgia & Galatia (v6), the Spirit forbad them from pursuing this course & wanted him to turn the opposite way, to head towards Greece (Macedonia, in particular). So he obeyed & got to Mysia, but I think Paul wanted to do a quick stop in Bithynia (NE of Mysia), but here again, the Spirit detected a wrong path by the apostle.

    So from Mysia, Paul & Silas touched the coast at Troas (v8), when the purpose of this detour was revealed to Paul; that he had an appointment amongst the people of Macedonia (v9). And there in Macedonia, in Philippi, he met several folk: Lydia, an evil spirit possessed girl, & a jailer & probably others we're not told of. After this, he continued his journeyings in that region (chapter 17). Even though, Paul's ministry was pressing in Asia, the Spirit had another, maybe more urgent work in Macedonia for him to fulfil. Paul did however go back into Asia on his Third missionary journey.
  • Paul the Apostles Life and Ministry - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Paul was a new Christian. Radically saved. He was a Roman, but began life as a Jew. He ascended to rank as a Pharisee.

    He was highly educated. He gave the order for Stephen the Evangelist to be stoned to death. Book of Acts. You can find more information reading that passage.

    Paul left there on his way to chase down more Christians. Jesus appeared to him on the Damascus Road. You should read of that also.

    After Paul got his eyesight back, he was liquid excitement to begin evangelizing. This was disturbing to the disciples in Jerusalem.

    Gods purpose for Paul was to EVANGELIZE THE VERY PEOPLE HE HAD BEEN ORDERING TO BE EXECUTED. He would be sent to the Gentiles!

    It was necessary that Paul be alone with the Lord, by way if the indwelling Holy Spirit to be taught.

    However, since there was not a Bible for him to learn from; seclusion was priority. He was taught by THE WORD OF GOD. The same as in John 1:1

    It took 3 years. His enthusiasm did not wane. Look at the maps of Paul's Ministry over the region. It was on foot, by boat, horses and donkeys. He was beat up, imprisioned often, stoned, bit by a viper, chased, Acts is an exciting book to read. He was a man of small stature but his presence was huge like King David. He wrote much of the New Testament. He made tents to fund the ministry.

    Important point iswe all need to spend scheduled time alone with the Holy Spirit. He is our Teacher. We too are SENT TO THE WORLD. Go ye into your world first. Evangelize large or one on one. Pray to the Lord of the Harvest. God sets up divine appointments as He wills.

    To be a part of that is beyond JOY.

    Mishael

    I hope Chris will reply to your question as well. I'm short on time here but Chris is long on history and depth of the journey I am sure.

    God bless.
  • Dianne - in Reply on Matthew 17
    Hi David I need help understanding the connection between Paul and Mathew 17


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