Matthew Chapter 16 Discussion



 
  • Ronald Whittemore - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Amen S Spencer,

    Very well put. The same Spirit, also John 15:26-27, during those times, fulfilling the law and the prophets was a purpose. What can be unclear sometimes it was to the Jews first, it was not until all the prophecies concerning this had to be fulfilled. The beginning of the Church was Jews only and the law was still in play until Peters dream and Paul as we see in Acts 10 and Acts 15 and other places.

    There is one thing I repeat over and over when I read or study is "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". It reminds me to shake out my thoughts and preconceived ideas where I can hear what Jesus through the Holy Spirit is ready to show me. I still have much to hear and each time it is a wow, praise God moment.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Great reply Ronald.

    I believe all through the scripture it supports the view the Holyspirit empowers the believer and as the scriptures you pointed out it took the dwelling of the Holyspirit to perform in them to minister under this new covenant. You see it in the life of Peter here in Luke 22:32. When was Peter strengthened and start to perform? It's obvious in scripture after he was empowered. Christ was preaching his death and resurrection, but they couldn't receive it. In Luke 18:31-34. he declared to them what the Prophets has written, and they still couldn't grasp it because it hidden from them.

    Also, in John 16:12-14. seems to suggest the same thing. The preaching of the Cross was hidden from their eyes, and it seems Paul is mentioning the same thing throughout his epistles speaking of the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:7-14.

    The Holyspirirt is essential for understand and walk. Once he reveals his truth to us they're written on our hearts it takes him to exercise those truths in us and perfect our walk. we respond to the truth by the power of the Holyspirit, likewise the Apostles.

    For it is God which worketh in you both to "will" and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

    It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.

    The bible is not like our textbooks in school, what we have here has to be revealed to you, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.

    Also: 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

    You see the Holyspirits power over the flesh in Romans 8:1-14.

    You see the Holyspirirt working in us through baptism given us power to cease from sin in Romans 6:1-18.

    You see the contrast of the two natures in Romans 7:1-6. and so on. Here we see the contrast of what we had when we were under the law compared to what we have in Christ.

    God bless.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Chris

    I understand your point of view.

    I just think we are to speak truthfully and lovingly about brethren, alive today or who lived long ago. I just think that it is wrong to disparage the apostles when we do not know the content of their minds, hearts,or faith.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Dear Ronald

    Your point is well taken.

    Those of us today know Jesus from the perspective of completed Scripture. The apostles lived out the events of Jesus' life and, though believing Hom to be the Messiah and Son of God, they did not come to know Hom as Savior until He rose from the dead and gave them understanding of what He was teaching them. So, yes, they were afraid for good reason. If they crucified Jesus, then they, too, we in danger.

    We do not know what was in their minds and hearts during this time, but they believed in Jesus and He preserved their faith through all the events of His differing and death.

    Because only Jesus knew the apostles thoroughly and we do not, I defend the apostles when people speak against them. As you mentioned, none of us can be so smug as to think we would act any differently than the apostles if we were in their shoes. We should be respectful of them as those hand picked by Jesus to disciple and then send out into the world to spread the good news of Him in a hostile world.
  • Tim legarie - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    God bless Gigi this is jcbu undercover debate is good but was just thinking that this is where the bible is questioning the readers? About there individual covenant with God.This is were believers in the comments in the bible have an oppourtunity to write their faith in the book of life.I Tim Legarie will not deny my saviour Jesus Christ.God bless you have a God day.
  • Jcbu undercover - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    I can only respond to your first sentence.With scripture.Mathew 26:34 Jesus said unto him verily,I say unto thee,That this night before the cock crow,thou shall deny me thrice.My name is Tim Legarie ,and I will not deny Jesus Christ.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Indeed GiGi. I think that other folks' opinion on this is based on the Gift of the Holy Spirit Who baptizes, indwells, seals & empowers for life & service. The question therefore is, if the disciples did not experience this mysterious blessed Act of the Spirit till Pentecost, then what was their spiritual condition prior?

    For this matter & many others, I always first ascertain which dispensation are we looking at. Clearly, the Lord, his chosen disciples, & all whom they encountered were still living under the Old Dispensation: of the Law, looking towards the Messiah of God & His Salvation (albeit not the salvation they expected). Therefore, in respect to the disciples, they like all others (even Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc.), were subject to God, living in a sinful condition yet expressing devotion & trust in God to forgive them & help them. And if the saints of old were commended for their faith, not even receiving the promise ( Hebrews 11:39), we cannot discount them from being true believers & worshippers of God. But once the Sacrifice of Jesus was completed, the Requirement for forgiveness (both theirs & ours) was accepted & sealed by God: the Blood availed in full efficacy for those once under the Law & those believing without the Law.

    The disciples obviously were in an interesting point in time, having been subject to the Law & pharisaical demands, then meeting & believing in the One Who would abrogate the Law that only brought sin & death ( Romans 7:6-11), & then receiving the anointing & indwelling of the Spirit, Who would guarantee freedom from the penalty, hopelessness & powerlessness of that Law. Were the disciples in any different dispensation than those of previous millennia? The same God Who accepted the faith & worship of Jacob under the Law, would accept these simple followers of Christ by their faith & obedience, awaiting not many days hence, when the Law could no longer kill, but they would have the Spirit Who would give them life & power to live.
  • Jcbu undercover - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    God bless Gigi never be offended for seeking! o o o ooo ooo Jesus said to Peter you will deny me 3 times before the cock crows Now I do not Know what I would do then.But now I am Tim Legarie and I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and set me freeeeeeeeee.In the movie we talked about were the police man was convinced he was guilty of rape he was drinking and when you drink it can allow in evil spirits like he believed he was guilty of raping his daughters because he blacked out and would believe anyone that told him what he had done evil spirits.BEWARE!He was not guilty,innocent but the devil had convinced him in his blackout that he was guilty and even put it into his head.Temperance temperance temperance Nothing can not be done good!If not done for God! Revelation the dragon from the sea china the virus powers and princeapalities.We are all on this journey together we can grow o o o o o o o! 123 Father Son Holy Spirit guide us all Lord with your wisdom ,and knowledge.AMEN
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Thanks Chris

    It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.

    Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.

    I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.

    If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.

    They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.

    But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.

    So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Thanks Chris

    It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.

    Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.

    I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.

    If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.

    They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.

    But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.

    So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Thanks Chris

    It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.

    Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.

    I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.

    If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.

    They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.

    But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.

    So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Thanks Chris

    It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.

    Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.

    I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.

    If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.

    They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.

    But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.

    So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
  • Ronald Whittemore - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Hey Jcbu, Chris, and GiGi,

    The apostles did not deny or abandon Jesus they were confused, scared, shocked. They believed Jesus was the Messiah and the Son of God, they did not doubt that. Even though Jesus told them several times, Jesus being arrested, crucified, buried, and resurrected, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 20:18-19 John 20:9, and more. It was hidden from them. Luke 18:32-34. When He was arrested, crucified, and buried in a tomb they were in shock.

    During the time they were with Jesus they thought He was going to set up the kingdom then. They even asked Him before He ascended if He was going to set up the kingdom, Acts 1:6. When He was killed, they did not know what to do, the Messiah, Jesus the Son of God was supposed to set up the kingdom, now He is dead. For three days they mourned and cried not knowing what they would do now.

    Then Jesus told them when He met and ate with them and opened their eyes where they would understand, Luke 24:44-47. The purpose of His death and resurrection was hidden from them and Satan. Things was held from them and much they did not remember as Jesus told them in John 14:26.

    We think about all the apostles were told and being with Jesus for 3.5 years how we would act if we were there. It is not that simple, as John wrote if everything that Jesus said was written down the world could not hold it, John 22:25.

    They never lost their faith they were just in shock for three days and as we see 120 of the disciples were together at Pentecost,

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Hi GiGi. I often think of John 6:66-69 when confronted with the thought of the disciples' spiritual condition: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

    There were those of Jesus' other disciples (other than the 12), who turned their backs to the Lord, but the 12, bar Judas, remained faithful even though their love & faith in the Lord were often severely tested. As Peter exclaimed, 'to whom can we turn to, to receive the words of eternal life, You the promised Messiah of God?' Maybe, our expectations of the disciples are oddly higher than for the rest of us, given their personal encounter with Jesus & witness of His Glory & Power. But we fail to remember that they were like us in every way, with their doubts, fears, & questions, & they could hardly envisage how their lives would change when the Holy Spirit would one day empower them to live for the Lord, to teach the Truths of God & one day to die for Him. These traits should be characteristic of each one of us who have been touched & changed by God's Spirit, or else we would be mere followers, ever hungering, walking unsteadily, living with doubts & fears. "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:23
    Jcbu

    Hi

    My understanding from reading the last chapters of each Godpel after the resurrection, all of the apostles (except Judas) returns to Jesus, though they had deserted Him during His trial, suffering and death.

    Jesusmet and ate with them multiple times after the resurrection and their faith in Him was restored.

    It is untrue that the apostles did not believe the gospel until Pentecost. They were empowered for the mission of evangelism at Pentecost, but the last chapters of the gospels and Acts 1 shows us that they believed and were taught by Jesus.

    It baffles me that many people seem to believe what you stated despite the evidenc of Scripture. Perhaps some people judge the apostles by their own mindset and not by what Scripture actually says.

    The Scripture gives us no reason whatsoever to think that these apostles were not believers before Pentecost.

    I encourage you and others to read these passages in the Gospels and Acts 1 to find out more about the apostles Jesus selected to take the Gospel of Him to the world. He did not make a mistake in choosing them nor did He not teach them and ensure they had received faith to believe in Hom before He ascended. To think otherwise is an insult to our Lord and unbelief in what He is able to do and desired to do in His apostles. Read the Last Supper Discourse in John and see how Jesus speaks to and about the apostles.

    Jcbu, I am not trying to be critical of your post. I just felt urged to speak to this one item in your post. I appreciate your thoughts.
  • Jcbu undercover on Matthew 16:23
    The whole world at that time turned on Jesus Christ even the apostles denied him for a time.Until the Holy Spirit came to them in the upper room.When Jesus died he died for the sin's of the whole world forgive them father they know not what they do.THe father son and holy spirit came to save us all from ourselves,and show the path to heaven.In Jesus name Lord guide my steps ,guide my words,guide my heart.Each person has their own cross to bear,so each person has to have an individual relationship with God through Jesus Christ ,and the Holy Spirit.The gifts of the Holy Spirit,wisdom,understanding,counsel,fortitude,knowledge,piety,and fear of the Lord.The twelve fruits are charity,(or love),joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,long-suffering,gentleness,faith,modesty,(or self control,or temperance),and chastity,(not having sexual intercourse outside of marriage)
  • Gigi - in Reply on Matthew 16:27
    We really do not know how God has judged Judas this side of heaven. He sinned, As we all have. And he repented , as we all should. But as to his salvation or condemnation, that is in God's wisdom to decide, not ours.
  • Glenn - in Reply on Matthew 16:27
    But ; we have no idea if Judas repented , plus he hadda lot of help in dying , the cannites couldn't let him off the hook ,..
  • Jed Knighten on Matthew 16:27
    Judas attempted to return the money but they would not accept it which further added to his guilt. Also Jesus had already spoken that one would betray him so they asked of Judas was a must. Not everyone will be saved and this is evident by the actions of Judas
  • GiGi - in Reply on Matthew 16
    Gabriel,

    Judas sold Jesus because he was tempted by the devil and he listened and chose to act on what the devil urged him to do. e chose to sin on his own accord, as we all do. Interesting that Jesus did not reject Judas in any of this encounter. But Judas probably thought that e could not receive forgiveness, because it says he repented and returned the money. This hopelessness of not being forgiven most likely made him determined to follow through with suicide. If he had waited until after the resurrection, he may have realized that Jesus was ready to forgive him, if he believed in Jesus.
  • Rick - in Reply on Matthew 16
    Hi Phillip Good Stuff Brother!
  • English Sacha - in Reply on Matthew 16
    Hi Philip , hope you don't mind me butting on here . I've always believed that the Rock is actually Peters confession : Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God ,that it is also the rock of offense and the stumbling block of the Jews , the rock that the house is builder on that doesn't collapse when the storm comes and the rock cut out of the mountain , without hands in Daniel Ch 2 , V 34 . This rock is a definite theme I believe and well worth studying if you feel so inclined . I imagine that you have already guessed its significance .
  • Philip Christian Parks on Matthew 16
    RE. Matthew 16:18

    While Peter was arguably the most impulsively outspoken disciple and unofficially considered a leader among the disciples, The LORD expressed this verse in such a way as to distinguish Peter from the Church's True and Actual HEAD, namely, LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.

    The proper name Peter translates from the Greek proper noun (transliterated "Petros"; pronounced "PET-ros"), meaning a stone or a small rock. Compare The LORD addressing Simon (Peter) as recorded in John 1:42: "When JESUS beheld him (Simon Peter), HE said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas {the Greek rendering of the Aramaic}, which is by interpretation, A stone {Grk. noun "petros"}." From that point on, Simon (the Greek rendering of the Hebrew proper name Simeon) was commonly addressed by the surname Peter (a stone or small rock).

    By great contrast, when The LORD proclaimed, "upon This ROCK I will build MY Church", HE identified HIMSELF as the Church's ROCK. Here, the word "ROCK" translates from the Greek noun root (transliterated "petra"; pronounced "PET-ra"), meaning a rock of immense and formidable size which covers a massive geographical footprint (cp. Mt. 7:25-25; 27:60; Mk. 15:46; Lu. 6:48; 8:6 & 13). The reader may think of the Rock of Gibraltar in contrast to a pebble.

    Additionally, "PETRA" never refers to Peter, but always identifies LORD JESUS CHRIST (cp. Rom. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8).
  • Bro dan - in Reply on Matthew 16
    Judas betrayed Jesus for money, because he was a sinner. He had a choice, he made the wrong choice.

    We are all born sinners, but we don't have to continue to sin, because sin is the wrong choice.

    Romans 5:12

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

    Once we hear the gospel of Jesus Christ we now have the same choice - as Judas, we can choose Jesus, or the world. The world consists of money, power, material things, and many ways to sin.

    Matthew 6:24

    "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

    I choose God, and hope and pray that you will do the same. Stay close to your bible.

    God Bless.
  • Elder Gabriel Hormeku on Matthew 16
    Why Judas sold Jesus ?
  • Francesco on Matthew 16:26
    Wow this is really important. May we gain our souls O Lord. Ask and it shall be given. I ask that I keep my soul. Even if I have to lose my life.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Matthew 16:18
    Hi Henry.

    Perhaps here?

    Ephesians 6:1-3. Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

    Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)

    That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
  • DR JEROME JONES on Matthew 16:18
    Is the Topic of Sexual Impotence suffered by husbands dealt with/or discussed in the word of GOD ?
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 16:18
    Amen. In Christianity I hear a lot about how God is a friend, like a buddy you can talk to or just hang out with, or like a psychologist who just listens to you all day, or like a genie in a lamp who is there to bless your life, to fix all your problems, and serve you. I personally don't believe it. I think if that were true Jesus would have said so, but instead we have Jesus warning his followers (Christians) over and over to obey His commandments and to fear God. Matthew 10:28

    Fear is the opposite of love as the Bible says and we shall not be in bondage with fear ( Romans 8:15), but it definitely says to fear God, which I think includes a very high level of respect to Him. I think a portion of Christians don't respect God or fear Him like the Bible says and instead I actually hear them use God's name in vain, and just say petty things to God, act demanding, and throw a tantrum when they doen't get their way. But God doesn't exist to serve them, but the opposite.

    Link
  • Simon - in Reply on Matthew 16:18
    ( Leviticus 19:28) Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

    ( 1 Corinthians 6:20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


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