Matthew Chapter 12 Discussion Page 2



 
  • Chris - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Hello Nic. You've received some good advice, as we would correctly look at this matter (your matter) with spiritual eyes, i.e. finding the answers from the Scriptures. As much as I fully agree that the answer can only be found in the Word of God & with implicit trust in Him to work His Grace in you, I thought to join in to share a personal encounter with someone I know who demonstrated aspects of what you've shared here.

    She is a sister in Christ, fully in love with her Lord. Yet she had blasphemous thoughts constantly ringing through her head. And so severe were they, that she believed those thoughts were not just passing thoughts, but being articulated in her own words against God. In sessions of counselling with her, she actually admitted that she heard foul voices compelling her to blaspheme against God & numerous occasions of believing that she had lost her salvation. Many servants of God had shared & prayed with her, but she continued to grow weak in spirit because of this continual turmoil in her head. She did love the Lord & so was perplexed how she could love Him & yet blaspheme Him.

    Now, I know that you may or may not identify with this dear one, but what was determined was that this was not a spiritual problem per se, but had its roots in her brain function. She was one who had some type of 'chemical deficiency' that seemed to play havoc with her thinking & particularly manifested in this spiritual area. She enjoys great relief now from these 'voices & thoughts' as her Christian doctor/psychologist has her on medication to deal with this brain aberration/deficiency. She did come off or reduced her medication at times, & the mental afflications began. Her doctor often had to regulate her dosage.

    I just share the above to give you another side to this dilemma & not at all suggesting this must apply to you. Maybe something to explore - and if you do, I think only a Christian doctor would understand your experience - others might write you off as crazy.
  • For New Believers from those Who Love You - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Nic__it's like Apostle Paul said of himself, "I am the Chief of sinners".

    We all feel like that periodically. Me too. I WAS "harming Christians with Astrology." Satan hates servants that walk out on him; as in give their lives and future to Jesus. Exchange all the bad stuff and give ALL of it to Jesus. Receive His blood atonement, shed for you. Make Him your Lord and Savior forever.

    Book of Acts 19:19__get rid of things you know in your heart, are cursed things or idols. The Holy Spirit will help you all the way.

    Read your Bible in silence. "White noise" is not always helpful. Start in the New Testament. Find out exactly who Jesus is to you; what he promises to you. Proverbs are for Wisdom. Psalms to comfort your soul. 2 Peter 3, to understand we're running out of time. 1,2,3, John, how to forgive yourself.

    Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Godhead ( Romans 1) and He says, Seek (ME) and you will find Him. He doesn't leave ussometimes we walk away from Him. Stay close and talk Out, to Him, what exactly is bothering you.

    Honestly, Satan buzzes around us like moths do to a light bulb; trying to get us back. He just wants us dead. But he knows you are off limits now. ASK God to send a couple of angels to walk with you for a time and be your bodyguards.

    Don't limit your faith. Ask for what you NEED. Not worldly wants.

    Everybody in these comment rooms are here for you. Someone helped us once even now. Let's help each other, pray needs, and encourage; edify.

    Peace be upon you from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • Adam - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Dear Nic, just noticed your other comment. If you haven't made a decision to follow Jesus already, then now is the time. I don't believe you've blown it based on the limited info I've heard. Please read my last post with the verses and check this out. You have no downside and practically unlimited upside to following Jesus (if you haven't already). In other words the pro/con and risk/reward in business terms should be the easiest decision ever: Link
  • Adam - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    I suggest praying and asking for peace and understanding.

    If you're referring to something you thought or did before you came to know the Lord, then I personally don't believe you are guilty of this. I think it's closer to the opposite of what the other commenter said. I think it's especially for Christians who already 'know better' and already know the truth, then reject it to the point of calling good evil and evil good and claiming evil motives- perhaps like an ultimate betrayal, and it might also involve denying the holy spirit within you. I hesitate to even write this as an example. A clear example of this blaspheming is Matthew 12:24 by the Pharisees. Jesus logically refuted it, but it's unclear whether He was saying the Pharisees then had no chance to go to heaven, because I don't believe they had true knowledge of the truth yet. I think it's possible Judas committed this as well. It's possible Peter committed this, but was forgiven in a special circumstance, possibly.

    My Biblical support for this is Hebrews 10:26 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 and 1 Timothy 1:13 and Hebrews 6:4-6 and Luke 23:34. Maybe more here: Link

    This is my personal opinion. Romans 1:20 could be used to suggest otherwise, but it's my opinion that it is only concerning knowing there's a God, not necessarily having the full truth of Jesus Christ and the holy spirit and then denying. I also don't believe falling away qualifies. I think we're talking about a full on rejection and I hate even the thought while writing this, but if it couldn't happen Jesus would not have warned us about it. God bless.
  • Nic - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    I would rather someone tell me the truth. It seems that I have blown it and though I want to repent I do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. Also just so you know, not a guy, someone called me brother in a response.
  • Nic - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Adam:

    This causes me trouble because, that may mean that I cannot be forgiven. I have had blasphemous thoughts about the Holy Spirit and evil thoughts that I regret but Jesus said that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. Sometimes there was temptation other times ruminating on thoughts. I feel empty and anxious and have been mentally all over the place for a while. So I am not sure what to do with my life. It is written that will never be forgiven and I feel so far from Christ. Thank you for your frankness.
  • Adam - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Beware of anyone claiming your thoughts aren't your own thoughts or your sins aren't your own sins. This doesn't come from the Bible nor from God. Satan will tempt us but we are fully responsible for our choices. 'Satan made me do it' is just another clever lie from satan.

    Also beware of anyone claiming that you can't commit a certain type of sin if you're a Christian. Anyone can commit blasphemy of the holy spirit and we indeed need to watch what we say to avoid sinning. Anyone claiming it's no big deal or that Christians can't commit certain sins, as if there's an invisible force field or as if our freewill to choose is removed, is simply untrue. Watch out for false teachings. If blasphemy wasn't a big deal Jesus wouldn't have warned everyone about it. Jesus warned everyone to avoid sin repeatedly, over and over.

    God is very, very forgiving, but we must follow Him! Keep in mind that Paul, one of the best evangelists for Christianity, previously murdered Christians. We must give it our 100% to avoid sin and obey! Some are uncomfortable with this as they feel like they're giving up freedom or being controlled, or they heard at a sermon once that good works or effort is bad. But that's not from the Bible. The Bible says to become slaves of righteousness. Jesus says if you love Him then obey his commandments. Some falsely assume that means you're 'earning' heaven. Nope, doesn't mean that. Christianity is an active pursuit to be like Jesus. Those who are luke warm should be concerned. It says in the Bible many times to fear God. Some of this is explained in Hebrews 6 and many other places (the entire book is even better). God bless.
  • English Sacha - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Dear Mishael , that's the best advice ever . When I start to get a bit sad or irritated by the things going on in my own life or in the world around me I remember the awesome promises that have been made to each and every one of us . That little white stone with my new name on it . You will get one too . How beautiful is that going to be . We mustn't let the awful things of this life drag our hearts down , we don't belong here and we are not stopping here . We are on our way to an amazing new world . A world without fear or loneliness or hunger or oppression or ignorance . It can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned . Looking forward to meeting you and everyone else from this site . Joy to the world . Love to you all .
  • Michael - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    People like to make things more complicated than they are.

    Blasphemy: Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.

    Contempt: a feeling that someone or something is not worthy of any respect or approval

    Contempt against the Holy Spirit is equal to not being saved. How can someone who accepts Jesus as their savior and have the Holy Spirit hold it in contempt? Conversely, How can someone whose sins aren't forgiven be saved? If you are saved, this doesn't apply to you.

    Don't live in fear over this or over anything. F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real. Fear is Satan's strongest weapon to destroy your life. Fear is the opposite of love. Even your misinterpretations of the bible can be used against you.

    If you have blasphemous thoughts over this it's because your mind focuses on what you fear. Those thoughts are not your own, don't accept them. If you actively try to ignore something, the opposite will happen. Instead, focus on good things.

    John 5:24, Romans 8:15
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Hi Nic.

    I would like to support what brother Jesse said and would like to add to it if I may.

    Perhaps here's what the Pharisees rejected as some Jews and Gentiles do till this day. " Ephesians 1:13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, ( THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION:) in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," The preaching of the cross had no effect on them, they desired a sign and yet ignored all the signs even though Jesus met all the criteria for the messiah they were seeking.

    Paul says in 1Corinthians 1:21-22. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. ( FOR THE JEWS REQUIRE A SIGN,) and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

    Here in John 10:37-38. Jesus reasons with them on that.

    "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

    In Mathew 12:13-24. Jesus performed the signs and wonders and healed many...

    But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. In John 10:38 he said "though ye believe not me, believe the works: THAT YOU MAY KNOW AND BELEIVE, THAT THE FATHER IS IN ME, AND I IN HIM." But they contribute the work of the Holyspirit to that of Satan. For one to be saved he has to be drawn by the Holyspirit, knowingly in need of a savior and the Holyspirit would have to draw these Pharisees away from what they trusted as do some of us, THE LAW. Paul says But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, They rejected Him. "THE HOLYSPIRIT"

    God bless.
  • David - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Hi Nic Brother there is a major difference between what you think in your head and believe with your heart, example there's times when someone can make you angry and you want to kick there butt but you don't carry that out. It was just a thought with no action, but a thought of the heart innermost part of being which is the seat of your personnel life is a whole different issue, confessing Romans 10:9+10 and believing that in the heart innermost part of your being and taking action on those scripture. Action on scripture gets results, mental accent says ill do it someday or may way but never acts on Gods Word.
  • Rick - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Hi Nic Trust me when I tell you you have not committed the unforgivable sin because that would be an action of heart that would put you in a state of permanent sin or broken fellowship.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Nic,

    Please allow me to share this with you. What does it mean to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? The word blasphemy literally means to reject. You used Matthew 12:31-32, so let's focus on what's being said there. Who's Jesus speaking to? Obviously not to saved believers who have been born of God's Spirit because the Holy Spirit had not come yet.

    In those two verses, Jesus is not addressing saved people who have the Holy Spirit in them that if they commit blasphemy (Rejection) against the Holy Spirit, they cannot be forgiven. He's speaking to Jewish leaders who were already in a condition of rejection.

    A person comes to Christ only when God's Spirit brings conviction to their heart and shows them their need of a Savior. They begin to realize that they need to be forgiven. But why would they come to Christ to begin with? They come to Christ because the Holy Spirit draws them to Christ.

    If you haven't caught on to what I'm saying, please let me explain. Let's say I am an unsaved person. I just came to the realization that I am a sinner destined to Hell. I may not realize that God's Spirit has shown me this, but I am now convinced that I need a Savior. I need Christ. Now I have a choice to make. Do I surrender my life to Jesus Christ? Or, do I reject (Blaspheme) the testimony of God's Spirit coming to me and showing me that I am a sinner in need of a Savior and turn away from my only hope of salvation?

    I've received Christ. I did not reject (Blaspheme) His Spirit. All my sins have been forgiven, past, present, and future. Jesus said all manner of sin shall be forgiven except for the sin of rejecting His Spirit. Since I've received His Spirit into my life, I will never be in that pre-salvation condition of rejection. Those who commit blasphemy (Rejection) of God's Spirit, they do it before receiving Christ. They've rejected His Testimony showing them their need of a Savior. For that, they cannot be forgiven.

    Have you been born of God's Spirit?
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Brother Nic, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    The Holy Spirit, through men, wrote the WORD(S) of God ( 2 Peter 1:21).

    To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to NOT BELIEVE the Words of God.

    Everyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit; until the Holy Spirit intervenes an CAUSES that person to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29).

    The word you have to believe are not just a few scriptures (words) but ALL the scriptures (words).

    Matthew 12:31-32 says they wont be forgiven in this AGE or in the AGE to follow.

    Do you know how many AGES God has ordain in the AGE that has no beginning and no end. No we don't know.

    God's word says that after this AGE and the AGE to follow, that they will be saved.

    Isaiah 26:9 ...When thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the earth will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Isaiah 45:23 ...That unto me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess ....

    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow ......

    Philippians 2:11 And every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    1 Timothy 4:10 ...Who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.

    This is going to be fulfilled some time after this AGE and the AGE to follow.

    Sadly most don't believe these words of God.
  • Adam - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    You praying about it seems like the best action. You're seeking council on it which is also good. You might consider scheduling a meeting with a pastor to speak in person. More perspectives may help, however, beware of bad advice and false teachers. Some make up stuff that isn't based on the Bible. For instance, someone claiming only an 'elect' can commit this sin is untrue. Things not in the Bible are usually false. Anyone can commit blasphemy which is why Jesus spoke both to his own followers and Pharasees and a general audience about it as well.
  • Glenn - In Reply on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    Blasphemy of the holy sprit,. Can only be committed by God's Elect ,.. an that opportunity has not of yet come into it's time ,.. for it'll be them that are delivered up to the councils an in the synagogue to give testimony against them , an the gospel must first be published before all nations ,.. an it will not be them that speak , it'll be the holy sprit speaking threw them ,.. Mark 13 , will clarify the duty's for the elect

    Peace
  • Nic on Matthew 12:50 - 2 years ago
    If you have had blasphemous thoughts about the Holy Spirit and want to repent, is it possible that you haven't blasphemed the Holy Spirit in your heart? As in, errant and anxious thinking may be the reason and perhaps you are not beyond repentance? Matthew 12:31-32 clearly states this will NEVER be forgiven so if you are concerned about it, is it possible GOD might still bring you to repentance and you are not guilty of this sin? Been numb and having messed up thoughts (some anxious others obsessive). If it is too late, how can someone live afterwards? I prayed about it...just waiting for an answer from GOD at this point. Any advice or thoughts?
  • Ronald L Whittemore - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Hey Scott,

    Passover is on the 14th of Nisan; it is a preparation day for the feast of unleavened bread, which is the 15th through the 21st. The first day of this feast is a holy convocation (Sabbath) the only work you can do is to eat. Jesus was crucified on Passover day and died around 3 PM. They had to get Him in the tomb before sundown which would be the first day of the feast a Sabbath day.

    Many choose Wednesday for that day but if Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and put in the tomb before sundown, the first day of the feast would be on Thursday a Sabbath day. That would leave Friday a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath on Saturday. The Mary's and all the disciples could have gone to the tomb on Friday with the spices and anoint Jesus' body because there were no restrictions on Friday.

    If the day Jesus was crucified was Thursday, Friday would be the first day of the feast, a Sabbath as S Spencer said a high day, and Saturday was the weekly Sabbath. Two Sabbaths in a row puts Sunday which starts sundown Saturday the first chance they could go to the tomb.

    The crucifixion on Thursday gives three days and three nights. Thursday/ Day, Friday/Night and Day, Saturday/Night and Day, Sunday/Night, Jesus resurrected before sunrise on Feast of Firstfruits which He was the First Fruits of those who slept.

    What is kind of confusing the Passover lambs are killed on the 14th Passover day and are eaten the night of the 15th the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread?

    ( Exodus 12:3-11) ( Exodus 12:29-33) ( Leviticus 23:5) ( Numbers 33:1-3) ( Deuteronomy 16:1-8)

    Oh, by the way, the word even, is anytime afternoon when the sun starts going down until sundown which starts a new day.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Hi Scott.

    We tend to try and fit 3 days and 3 nights in between Friday to Sunday When Jesus rose from the grave. The reason for this is we know by scripture they wanted to get them off the cross because it was the preparation. and the sabbath was following. But it wasn't the day of sabbaths, it was the ( High sabbath ) that they was concerned about. It came earlier in the week. placing it sometime around Wednesday before 6pm. Ending 5:59 pm Thursday. "Their days are 6:01 to 5:59 As our days are 12:01 to 11:59."

    "The High sabbath is one of the annual sabbaths, not the sabbath of days.Which is Saturday and can fall on any day".

    They had 2 Sabbaths that week first the high sabbath, "annual" and the days of sabbath, "Saturday"

    Note:

    John 19:31. The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (FOR THAT SABBATH DAY WAS AN HIGH DAY,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    So that would account for the 3 days and 3 nights and Jesus rising on Sunday morning, which starts 6:01 pm. "On our clock this would be Saturday" On their clock it's Sunday.

    Note:

    John 20:1. THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK COMETH MARY MAGDALENE EARLY, WHEN IT WAS YET DARK, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

    Not sure how accurate but we are in the vicinity.

    I hope this helps God bless.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Scott Dumm You are correct that's not possible, by judean calendar at that time, He was crucified and and entombed between 3pm. and sunset wednesday so that the jews could eat there passover, He raised from the tomb sometime saturday 72 hours later. I'm sure you will be given a few different perspectives on this. God Bless
  • Dianne - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Scott It is Not possible since he had to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights , by judean calendar at that time he was crucified wednesday before passover was celebrated sometime before sunset and rose saturday sometime before sunset again Judean time.
  • Scott Dumm on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    question;

    If he died on Friday and arose Sunday morning how is that possible
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Sister Melinda, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, in this world (age) neither in the world to come (age).

    The Word of God was written by the HOLY SPIRIT ( 1 Peter 1:21), the HOLY SPIRIT is in you ( Colossians 1:27) ( Ephesians 4:6)

    To blashpheme the Holy Spirit means to NOT BELIEVE (reject) what he is saying to you through his written word and the LIVING WORD that is IN YOU.

    By not believing, or rejecting his WORD; you would not be saved in this age or in the coming age(s); but will be judged in the coming age(s).

    After the next age, possibly ages, you will AGAIN be able to be saved.

    Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES (ages) he might gather together IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; EVEN IN HIM.

    1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things (in this and the coming ages) shall be subdued (they will confess him as LORD) unto him (Christ), then shall the Son ALSO HIMSELF be subject unto him (the Father) that put all things under him (Christ), that GOD (the Father) may be ALL IN ALL.

    No one is going to be left out of the Kingdom of God; but most want come into the kingdom in the age we are now in.
  • Melinda Pinner - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    12:30-32 What is specifically unforgiveable in this world and the world to come? Also, what about people who didn't know they or rather were not aware of the gravity of their sins? Even while on the cross Jesus pleaded with God to forgive them for they not know what they do..MAYBE he was speaking about the ignorance that shouldn't be ignored. Then again it IS God and he knows the hearts of man as does Jesus. So...
  • Glenn - In Reply on Matthew 12:32 - 2 years ago
    If you are in a flesh body ,.. you have been " born again " you've passed the first test ! Remember, there are several thousand, that refused to be born of woman , but instead, left there habitation, to disrupt the plan of God , Jude , first 6 vs's
  • Chuck on Matthew 12:32 - 2 years ago
    My commeit is if we are borne again Christians Jesus is not talking to us. About the sabith or healing or not abideing the law. we are sinners saved by grace in Mat 28 he will give us a chance to prove ourselves on the third day
  • Jesse - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Delores,

    It would be difficult in such a short space to summarize the entire chapter. I can share with you a few things and break down the outlines of the chapter for you if that helps. I can also share some key verses and some memorization verses. If there are any specific verses that you would like help on, I or someone else here might be happy to help you.

    Chapter 12 can be broken down into five outlines: Verses 1-8, Eating Grain on the Sabbath, Verses 9-21, Healing on the Sabbath, Verses 22-37, Committing the Unpardonable Sin, Verses 38-45, Seeking of a Sign, and Verses 46-50, the Understanding of True Family.

    Each of these five sections can be broken down separately as to the meaning of that particular section. Do you have any specific questions on any of these sections?

    There are also some key verses in chapter 12. They are Matthew 12:3, which is recorded for us in 1 Samuel 21:1-6. Other key verses are Matthew 12:5, Matthew 12:7 which comes from Hosea 6:6, Matthew 12:17-21 which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 42:1-4 and Isaiah 49:3.

    If you are into verse memorization, some verses to memorize in this chapter would be Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:30-32, and Matthew 12:50.

    I would love to go over the entire chapter with you but it would take more than one post. Again, if there are any particular sections or verses you would like to go over from chapter 12, please feel free to ask. I would be more than happy to share with you my understanding.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Delores Mathew 12:1-14 Going up against religious leaders at that time using scripture out of context and to there benefit and always accusing and condemning the common man. Also you better do things at the right time and the right place with there blessing. Also the chapter deals with controlling your thoughts with Gods word and what you speak. Thats some stuff, there's more there. This is not complete by any means.
  • Delores Mayweathers on Matthew 12 - 2 years ago
    Give me a summary of chapter 12, the meaning of the whole chapter.
  • Sacha - In Reply on Matthew 12:2 - 2 years ago
    Hi Ron ,yes it does seem as if the veil was ripped not by the earth quake as it was ripped from above ,thats a big clue i think ,also some one must have witnessed the ripping or it wouldnt be there for us to read about it ,may God bless you and all yours .


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