You write that Jesus is; "a normal creature and not God".
What is the source of this data? It is not the Bible.
Whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not "a normal creature".
And whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, Immanuel, the Word made flesh, God, and the Son of God. It is simply a FACT that the Bible teaches this.
See these references: Mat 16:16, Mat 1:23, Isa 7:14, Joh 1:1, Joh 1:14, Mat 8:29, Mk 3:11, 2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10, Rev 6:16.
Your noetic challenge is to work out HOW a divine person can be incarnate, suffer on a cross, die and is rise from the dead.
It may delight you to also work out the ontological limitations of a true human nature even when united to an unlimited divine person.
Only once you gather all the data from the reliable sources and understand the full picture all the pieces will fit together. Then, and then only, will you understand the COMPLEX PERSON of Jesus Christ in the Bible is a spectacular sight.
As one Latin writing theologian put it; CUR DEUS ET HOMO.
Hello Moha4med. The Bible doesn't teach us that there is an appointed angel for killing people. The closest Scripture I could find is in 2 Kings 19:35, where the angel of the LORD went into the camp of the Assyrians and killed 185K people. This was God's action in response to the prayer of King Hezekiah of Judah asking God to save them from the hand of the Assyrians. And God sent His angel to carry out this destruction.
So neither Jesus Christ nor any other person before or after Him (except the above reference), who faced death had any angel involvement in their deaths. For Christ, it is recorded in Luke 23:46, "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Jesus released His spirit back to the Father & in so doing He died on the Cross. And in Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The spirit of man cannot perish, for it is spirit, as God is Spirit. Man's spirit at death returns to God, for God to direct it to its abode awaiting acceptance or final judgement. So, your other questions are not applicable because there is no angel of death that Jews or Christians are told about. I know that in Islam, Azrail is believed to be the angel of death (Surah 32:11), but none recorded in the Bible nor in the Jewish Tanakh. There maybe mention of this in other Jewish literature or the Apocryphal writings, I can't be sure.
Hello, another point worth sharing is God is also powerful enough to limit His power if He chooses. If you disagree, where is the Bible verse saying that? And why assume that all all powerful God somehow doesn't have the power to do certain things? That also contradicts itself.
Plus, the Bible already tells us that Jesus chose to limit Himself and become a servant in the form of a man on earth. Many tend to assume that the way Jesus was as a temporary man must be the way He is all the time. Some can't possibly imagine Him any other way, failing to realize that the whole becoming a man thing was a temporary. If He didn't allow Himself to be a man within the parameters of human beings it might seem to defeat the original intent on becoming a man and being an example for us to follow.
I'd like to respond to your post and challenge your assumptions.
You wrote: "Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know."
It sounds like you are assuming God has limitations based on your human logic. I think your logical assumptions are flawed, however.
Isn't God big enough to choose to know or not know things? God can also change His mind. He made all things and is powerful enough to do all things including choose to operate on our time frame or dimension or not. You're assuming that God can't do that, and so you're assuming that God must have that limitation while also claiming that he has no limitations. Doesn't your assumption contradict itself?
John 1:1-3 says the Word (Jesus [verse 14]) is God, has always existed, and made all things? If you believe the Bible why would you not believe this verse?
On the other hand, you also say that Christ was crucified and died. So, you know that the one responsible for killing people is the angel of Death. Now you are saying that Christ is God, so if Christ died, who took his soul? The angel of Death? Does that mean the angel of Death is more powerful than God? So, according to your understanding, the angel of Death is more powerful than God. Don't you think about this?"
"Friends, I urge you to be rational, fair, and logical. We all know that the definition of God is that He is all-knowing and knows everything, past, present, and future. Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know. So, we have two possibilities here: either he knows everything or he is not all-knowing, and you can't combine both because that would be a contradiction. If he doesn't know the timing of the Hour, then he is not all-knowing and incomplete, so he is not God because God is all-knowing. Secondly, if he knows the timing of the Hour and lied when he said he doesn't know, then he is also not God because God does not lie, He is truthful.
Someone might come and say that he didn't know the Hour in his human nature when he descended and that he chose that. Well, my friend, you are saying that before he descended, he was God and knew everything, and when he descended, he became incarnate in a human body, but he is still God and human at the same time, and this is a contradiction because human nature is ignorant, while divine nature encompasses everything. So, if Christ knows everything and at the same time does not know everything, this is ignorance and contradiction in the book. Moreover, Christ is not self-existent because he relies on others, and this makes him not God because God is self-existent and does not rely on others. From the perspective of Christ, he relied on his mother Mary's milk, and this is a great contradiction: to worship a child who drinks milk and claim that he is God. If he is God and has the ability to do everything, why doesn't he produce milk by himself?
Sorry for my delayed answer. About "genea" brother Chris said it right. If you have a look at Matthew 1:17 it says "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." The grk for "generations" here in the grk text is "geneai" (plural for genea). In anc grk it also means race, nationality, place of birth, descent, etc. GBU
Again, we both agree in part. I think where we may differ is with the word generation (GENEA), where I understand Jesus to be referring to a race of people (Jews), and you say that you consider it as a time period which can not be indentified exactly.
I know you have a knowledge of the Greek language and I do appreciate that because it gives me an avenue of learning if I might need a better understanding of certain words.
The word in question is GENEA. In my studies, I am struggling to associate this word with time at all. Everything I have studied on this word tells me that Jesus was talking about a race of people, specifically the Jews, when He said this generation (GENEA) will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled.
Hello Jesse. You are right, I don't mean a specific no. of years but still I consider it as a time period which can not be indentified exactly by a number since we don't know when the last people of that generation will die. So I think before that generation passes away the end will come (but we don't know when the last ones will pass away and how many years before their passing away the end comes), but again I may be wrong. To be honest I am thinking about your expanation as well. I hope I don't confuse you.
It looks like we are in agreement, in part. I also do not believe Jesus meant a specific number of years when He said "this generation."
In fact, the word used (GENEA) has nothing to do with years at all. It has to do with a race, or kind of people.
When Jesus said this generation shall not pass, He was referring specifically about the Jewish race.
I am a little confused (not hard to do) by you saying you do not believe Jesus was speaking about a certain number of years, but in your explanation, you seem to be implying years, or a time frame.
alex 1939-Hiya Neville...God has his eyes on a special ppl which are the seed of Jesus...That New CREATURE ,An Israel of God Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a New CREATURE..Which is the H.G. The Children of Promise which is the gift of God to every body...Natural Israel are not the Children of Promise...They must be born again of an incorruptible seed as Jesus tells Nic. a Jew and all men...Jew and Gentile alike...Not Circumcision nor uncircumcision but only that New CREATURE.
..... Romans 9:8 That is They which are the Children of the flesh, These are not the Children of God...But the Children of Promise are counted for that good seed...Who are the Children of Promise ?...The H.G. Spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit...Our new innerman is our fruit unto God the H.G...Behold mine elect in whom my soul is well pleased I have put my spirit on him he shall shew judgement unto the Gentiles...Its only the H.G. the gift of God that is Gods elect...These things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes and sucklings Jesus offspring...The contents of the book his words of LIFE...An Israel of God...The regeneration of the H.G....Is Jesus generation..Behold me and the Children the lord has given me...ok lemme go
My belief about that is (but I wouldn't bet my head on it).
I don't think that Jesus meant a specific number of years (40, 60, whatever) when He said about a generation. I believe a generation is a literal generation, I will explain. The signs described by Jesus start when a nation starts fighting another nation, a general war, a world war ( Matthew 24:7). Assuming that that is WW2 that started in 1939, then people who were born in that date are now 83 years old. A lot of people from that generation are still alive, and people can get even older than 100 or more (even more than 110) years old. So there is still time, but not that much. In that generation's time the 7 year period of antichrist is included as well, so actually we are running short of time fast. But as I said I wouldn't bet my life on that theory. GBU
alex1939....Hiya Neville.... Matthew 19:28...Blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when the son of man is revealed...The last days when the book is opened and the seals are loosed.. that book that he wrote with his own blood...Thats when they all sang that new song ( the new Covenant) when Jesus will regenerate himself with his seed sown in humanity the contents of the book (words) of that book...Rev.12:5 is a picture of Regeneration of Christ...Her Child is the H.G. The Promise
..... Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness that we have done but by his mercy he saved us...By the washing and REGENERATION of the H.G.
.....That last generation is his (Jesus) GENERATION...Thats when the woman becomes pregnant for his Children, The Children of Promise,The H.G. are the Children of PROMISE....Our New Heart n New Spirit...As that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit ...
....Which is the H.G. The Israel of God...That Heavenly Jacob..Read Romans 9:8 KJV
There have been books written just on the meaning of this one word, GENEA. It is where we get our word "generate" from. A generation (GENEA) does not mean birth, or a specific number of years, but a kind or race of people. That is what it means.
Some have said that GENEA, and they have written books on it, and once they got our money and found out it wasn't true, they proceeded to write other books and people bought them.
They said that GENEA means or stands for 40 years. They said that "generation" means 40 years. So according to them, 40 is always associated with generation, so the word generation to them meant 40 years, and they said that since Israel became a nation in 1948 that Christ is coming back in 1988. You know, just add 40 years.
Pretty simple right? Well, about $5 million later in the bank, somebody goes "oops, I guess I was wrong. I'll just write another book!"
The generation is the Jews. This generation, meaning this people, they are not going to pass away until all things are fulfilled. They are my chosen people, the elect.
Hello Jane They didn't they found another place to live in. As you said you can't kill spirit but by Gods Grace we can be Healed and set free of the power of the spirit operating. Luke 38-42 The Touch of The Masters Hand!
If you look closely at the verse, it says that it was the herd of pigs that drowned. It does not tell us that the demons themselves drowned. It was the demons that entered into the pigs and caused them to violently run over the edge of the cliff and drown. But it was the pigs that drowned, not the demons.
A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them." 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.
I cannot understand this verse. If the demons are spirits; how can they drown by just entering the pigs?
Mark 13, verse 24-25 Jesus telling the apostle of a war which is the second coalition war and that date is April 11, 2003,
The smoke from the oil wells burning darkened the sky, the sun nor the moon's light will not shine through, a regime will fall (an American puppet), which will cause a vacuum and catch America by surprise.
Mark 13 verse 26 is the Abrahams Accord, dated august 13, 2020.
You write that Jesus is; "a normal creature and not God".
What is the source of this data? It is not the Bible.
Whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not "a normal creature".
And whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, Immanuel, the Word made flesh, God, and the Son of God. It is simply a FACT that the Bible teaches this.
See these references: Mat 16:16, Mat 1:23, Isa 7:14, Joh 1:1, Joh 1:14, Mat 8:29, Mk 3:11, 2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10, Rev 6:16.
Your noetic challenge is to work out HOW a divine person can be incarnate, suffer on a cross, die and is rise from the dead.
It may delight you to also work out the ontological limitations of a true human nature even when united to an unlimited divine person.
Only once you gather all the data from the reliable sources and understand the full picture all the pieces will fit together. Then, and then only, will you understand the COMPLEX PERSON of Jesus Christ in the Bible is a spectacular sight.
As one Latin writing theologian put it; CUR DEUS ET HOMO.
Enjoy the journey and protect your happiness.
So neither Jesus Christ nor any other person before or after Him (except the above reference), who faced death had any angel involvement in their deaths. For Christ, it is recorded in Luke 23:46, "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Jesus released His spirit back to the Father & in so doing He died on the Cross. And in Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The spirit of man cannot perish, for it is spirit, as God is Spirit. Man's spirit at death returns to God, for God to direct it to its abode awaiting acceptance or final judgement. So, your other questions are not applicable because there is no angel of death that Jews or Christians are told about. I know that in Islam, Azrail is believed to be the angel of death (Surah 32:11), but none recorded in the Bible nor in the Jewish Tanakh. There maybe mention of this in other Jewish literature or the Apocryphal writings, I can't be sure.
Plus, the Bible already tells us that Jesus chose to limit Himself and become a servant in the form of a man on earth. Many tend to assume that the way Jesus was as a temporary man must be the way He is all the time. Some can't possibly imagine Him any other way, failing to realize that the whole becoming a man thing was a temporary. If He didn't allow Himself to be a man within the parameters of human beings it might seem to defeat the original intent on becoming a man and being an example for us to follow.
Phil 2:5-11
I'd like to respond to your post and challenge your assumptions.
You wrote: "Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know."
It sounds like you are assuming God has limitations based on your human logic. I think your logical assumptions are flawed, however.
Isn't God big enough to choose to know or not know things? God can also change His mind. He made all things and is powerful enough to do all things including choose to operate on our time frame or dimension or not. You're assuming that God can't do that, and so you're assuming that God must have that limitation while also claiming that he has no limitations. Doesn't your assumption contradict itself?
John 1:1-3 says the Word (Jesus [verse 14]) is God, has always existed, and made all things? If you believe the Bible why would you not believe this verse?
God bless.
Someone might come and say that he didn't know the Hour in his human nature when he descended and that he chose that. Well, my friend, you are saying that before he descended, he was God and knew everything, and when he descended, he became incarnate in a human body, but he is still God and human at the same time, and this is a contradiction because human nature is ignorant, while divine nature encompasses everything. So, if Christ knows everything and at the same time does not know everything, this is ignorance and contradiction in the book. Moreover, Christ is not self-existent because he relies on others, and this makes him not God because God is self-existent and does not rely on others. From the perspective of Christ, he relied on his mother Mary's milk, and this is a great contradiction: to worship a child who drinks milk and claim that he is God. If he is God and has the ability to do everything, why doesn't he produce milk by himself?
Sorry for my delayed answer. About "genea" brother Chris said it right. If you have a look at Matthew 1:17 it says "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." The grk for "generations" here in the grk text is "geneai" (plural for genea). In anc grk it also means race, nationality, place of birth, descent, etc. GBU
Here's the word generations in Hebrew pulled from Genesis 5:1.
Hebrew:
Transliteration: tledh tledh
Pronunciation: {to-led-aw'} to-led-aw'
Definition: From H3205; (plural only) {descent} that {is} family; (figuratively) history: - {birth} generations.
And here it is in greek.
Greek:
Transliteration: genea
Pronunciation: ghen-eh-ah'
Definition: From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age generation nation time.
(The period of the persons.)
I didn't see that!
I always took it as the age of ALL those living at that time.
But the time period for the Jews does fit the context of the Chapter.
And it fits the view that the main focus of this period is on Israel.
GB.
Again, we both agree in part. I think where we may differ is with the word generation (GENEA), where I understand Jesus to be referring to a race of people (Jews), and you say that you consider it as a time period which can not be indentified exactly.
I know you have a knowledge of the Greek language and I do appreciate that because it gives me an avenue of learning if I might need a better understanding of certain words.
The word in question is GENEA. In my studies, I am struggling to associate this word with time at all. Everything I have studied on this word tells me that Jesus was talking about a race of people, specifically the Jews, when He said this generation (GENEA) will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled.
It looks like we are in agreement, in part. I also do not believe Jesus meant a specific number of years when He said "this generation."
In fact, the word used (GENEA) has nothing to do with years at all. It has to do with a race, or kind of people.
When Jesus said this generation shall not pass, He was referring specifically about the Jewish race.
I am a little confused (not hard to do) by you saying you do not believe Jesus was speaking about a certain number of years, but in your explanation, you seem to be implying years, or a time frame.
Am I just misunderstanding you?
..... Romans 9:8 That is They which are the Children of the flesh, These are not the Children of God...But the Children of Promise are counted for that good seed...Who are the Children of Promise ?...The H.G. Spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit...Our new innerman is our fruit unto God the H.G...Behold mine elect in whom my soul is well pleased I have put my spirit on him he shall shew judgement unto the Gentiles...Its only the H.G. the gift of God that is Gods elect...These things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes and sucklings Jesus offspring...The contents of the book his words of LIFE...An Israel of God...The regeneration of the H.G....Is Jesus generation..Behold me and the Children the lord has given me...ok lemme go
My belief about that is (but I wouldn't bet my head on it).
I don't think that Jesus meant a specific number of years (40, 60, whatever) when He said about a generation. I believe a generation is a literal generation, I will explain. The signs described by Jesus start when a nation starts fighting another nation, a general war, a world war ( Matthew 24:7). Assuming that that is WW2 that started in 1939, then people who were born in that date are now 83 years old. A lot of people from that generation are still alive, and people can get even older than 100 or more (even more than 110) years old. So there is still time, but not that much. In that generation's time the 7 year period of antichrist is included as well, so actually we are running short of time fast. But as I said I wouldn't bet my life on that theory. GBU
..... Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness that we have done but by his mercy he saved us...By the washing and REGENERATION of the H.G.
.....That last generation is his (Jesus) GENERATION...Thats when the woman becomes pregnant for his Children, The Children of Promise,The H.G. are the Children of PROMISE....Our New Heart n New Spirit...As that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit ...
....Which is the H.G. The Israel of God...That Heavenly Jacob..Read Romans 9:8 KJV
There have been books written just on the meaning of this one word, GENEA. It is where we get our word "generate" from. A generation (GENEA) does not mean birth, or a specific number of years, but a kind or race of people. That is what it means.
Some have said that GENEA, and they have written books on it, and once they got our money and found out it wasn't true, they proceeded to write other books and people bought them.
They said that GENEA means or stands for 40 years. They said that "generation" means 40 years. So according to them, 40 is always associated with generation, so the word generation to them meant 40 years, and they said that since Israel became a nation in 1948 that Christ is coming back in 1988. You know, just add 40 years.
Pretty simple right? Well, about $5 million later in the bank, somebody goes "oops, I guess I was wrong. I'll just write another book!"
The generation is the Jews. This generation, meaning this people, they are not going to pass away until all things are fulfilled. They are my chosen people, the elect.
Hope this helps!
What is the meaning of "this generation" in this context?
If you look closely at the verse, it says that it was the herd of pigs that drowned. It does not tell us that the demons themselves drowned. It was the demons that entered into the pigs and caused them to violently run over the edge of the cliff and drown. But it was the pigs that drowned, not the demons.
Hope this helps!
I cannot understand this verse. If the demons are spirits; how can they drown by just entering the pigs?
Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) God is truth, according to John 4:24.
Anti-christ will appear in Jerusalem, performing miracles, FOOLING millions of who have not read the Lord's Holy Word.
I pray for them to embrace the TRUTH. Amen.
The smoke from the oil wells burning darkened the sky, the sun nor the moon's light will not shine through, a regime will fall (an American puppet), which will cause a vacuum and catch America by surprise.
Mark 13 verse 26 is the Abrahams Accord, dated august 13, 2020.
Thank you very much for your blessings and kind words.
God bless you and your family.
God bless