John Chapter 3 Discussion



 
  • Mike on John 3:13
    How can we find the fulfillment of an OT verse marked with white star, and black star fulfillment in NT?
  • Jonathan McPherson on John 3:13
    Text: Matthew 24:1-14.

    Theme: Christ's prophecy what is to come in the future.

    Intro: Christ prophesied Matthew 24 when He was departing from the temple: the disciples

    followed Him and asked Him a question that triggered the disciples' hearts, Jesus tells them that

    Jerusalem including the temple shall be destroyed. False religion, false doctrine and false gospel

    shall abound. False Christ including false prophets shall appear and seduce many, Nations and

    kingdom shall rise up against each other, nation betray nation and kingdom betray kingdom.

    Pestilence, natural disasters shall occur, believers shall be myrted, mankind betray one another,

    and the hearts of many shall wax cold toward God, parents and friends. The good news is, Christ

    comforts His disciple Matt 24:6b.
  • Farmer on John 3:13
    what dose lot mean in joshua 16
  • Chris - in Reply on John 3:13
    We see the division of the Land of Canaan "by lot" quite often, beginning at Joshua 13:6: "All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee."

    We're not told how Joshua made the "division of the land for an inheritance unto the nine tribes, and the half tribe of Manasseh" (v7), whether by a Word from God or by simply dividing up the land & allocating portions to the tribes of Israel (not forgetting that Levi, Manasseh & Ephraim received no allocation). Maybe, the tribes that received their portions had some say as to where they would prefer to settle on the western side of the Jordan River. So to 'divide by lot' in this case, would mean to allocate the land to the various tribes, whether by 'lottery' or specifically according to the tribes' preferences.
  • Dixie on John 3:13
    where in the new testament that it says close your mouth and listen to God
  • Chris - in Reply on John 3:13
    Dixie, the closest passage that comes to mind in the NT is found in James 1:19: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath". But this verse would apply generally, that a person ought to listen first & then speak and certainly in the case with God, that we would always have our ears inclined towards Him.
  • Jesse - in Reply on John 3:13
    Julie,

    It means that we enter into God's rest. It's speaking about salvation. In Chapter 4, the writer is going back to creation. He's saying if you surrender to Christ, you will be doing just what God did. You will cease from your own works, your own efforts, at your own salvation, you will cease from your own works, and you will enter into God's rest.

    When a person receives Jesus Christ and has been born of His Spirit, that person enters into His rest.
  • Sacha on John 3:13
    Chris ,Amos ch3 v7 . Thats from the O.T.
  • Chris - in Reply on John 3:13
    I'm sorry Sacha: and why is this Scripture given to me? If you are thinking that the Scripture is intended to show that God will do nothing about those who have rejected Him & therefore just leave them in the grave, then I don't believe that this indicates this at all. But then again, I might be mistaken by your intentions, so I apologize for writing my next paragraph (which may not be what you're wanting).

    So here goes: Amos 3:7 read in context from the beginning of the chapter, tells us about Amos' rebuke against Israel: just as a lion doesn't roar when hunting for its prey; as a lion cub won't cry out if it is satisfied with food; as a bird can't be snared if there is no trap; as a (warning) trumpet will not sound if there is no danger to the people - so too with God - He will remain quiet ("He will do nothing") to His people, but will reveal His secrets (or, His intentions) to His prophets. So the message here is that when the prophet (of God) is commanded to speak by God, the people better sit up & listen hard, as the judgement of God is about to fall upon them.

    If this is not what you are anticipating, then please write further. Thank you.
  • Ron - in Reply on John 3:13
    Annet, you may be referring to Lilith found in some Jewish folklore, Sumerian and Babylonian stories. I believe she is described as some kind of demon of the night with the sound of a screech owl. You can google her name, but there is no evidence in scripture of her and Eve was Adams first and only wife by scripture. A lot of these myths were written from stories about the time of Nimrod like Gilgamesh, be careful it is a large rabbit hole.

    God bless, Ron
  • S Spencer - in Reply on John 3:13
    HI Annet,

    Do you have a scripture to support the possibility of another woman before Eve?

    Eve was Made from Adams rib, Why go through the trouble if Adam could have just Married her.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on John 3
    Hi Laura,

    No it's not. It's an outward expression of what Christ done on the Cross.
  • Sacha on John 3:13
    Chris ,Psalm 37 is all about how we should not evny the apparent prosperity and happiness of the wicked and what their end shall be ,you will notice that nothing is mentioned about them going to hell to be tortured for eternity by hideous demons ,there is more than one Psalm in this vein but its the one that comes straight to mind to me .
  • Chris - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Sacha. You're bringing the OT to find justification for "eternal torture by hideous demons". And you're right, you won't find it here as that was unknown at that time. All that was quoted was the word 'sheol', which sometimes applied to hell or the grave and often, as in Psalm 37, the wicked will be "cut off" of suffer under the Hand of God. Nowhere do we see a Lake of Fire & eternal suffering.

    And that is why we have all of Scripture to consider on this matter. If all we had was the OT, then I could well agree with you that death was our punishment & final resting place. But the NT, specifically Jesus' own Words while on Earth (the Gospels) & from Heaven (the Revelation), show us more of this place of punishment which wasn't revealed in its fullness in the OT.

    And yet I thought further on this matter & the Gospel now given to us. Let's suppose, I, as an unbeliever was being witnessed to by you & you spoke to me about the life-changing, life-giving message of the Gospel through God's Son. You talked about the resurrection to eternal life & eternal bliss with God, forever enjoying God's Presence & Heaven's blessings. But I, as a hardened sinner, asked "what would happen if I enjoyed my sinful lifestyle as it gave me much pleasure & refused God's offer of salvation?" Of course, your response would be, "as an unrepentant sinner, rejecting God's offer of salvation, you would not be received into God's Kingdom & you wouldn't have eternal life". But I insist, "but what happens to me & those who refuse to accept Jesus as my Saviour?" Your answer would have to be, "you will remain in the grave, dead, & lost without any hope". And I would say, "well we all have to die & some of us (most of us) will just remain dead". Do you see what I'm saying Sacha? Death is not the punishment - we all have to experience it because we're sinners. The Gospel in its fullness is 'salvation through faith in Jesus Christ from both sin's penalty & eternal punishment'. They both go together.
  • Sacha - in Reply on John 3:13
    Unknown at that time ,at that time ,God had a very up close and personal relationship with Israel ,He appeared to them often and spoke to them often throug signs and wonders and prophets ,do you think He would have kept something as important as that from His witnesses ? If yes ,why do you think He would have kept something as important as that from His witnesses ? Im giving up now ,i know what you think and i know what i know , i hope we can chat on a different subject some time ,love in Christ .p.s. Thats not a rhetorical question ,please answer if thats ok with you .
  • Chris - in Reply on John 3:13
    Sacha, it is possible that the OT folk knew something of a suffering beyond the grave, but I agree that there's not a lot mentioned in that respect. We could look at Daniel 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Here the thought is that those who die will awake (resurrection?), some to everlasting life & some to everlasting contempt. So even if one doesn't believe in a never-ending suffering, this verse shows that the dead don't remain dead but arise to some sort of judgement & punishment that doesn't end.

    Isaiah 30:33: "For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it." In this verse, the word "Tophet" is used & in the Greek (NT) is translated as Gehenna. This was a place near Jerusalem, in which the idolatrous Israelites used to offer up their children to Moloch. It may be put, for any place of torment; and particularly it is put for hell. "For the king": For the king of Assyria. "Fire": He alludes to the ancient custom, of burning sacrifices, and particularly of burning children to Moloch. "The breath": The immediate Hand of God, or His Word of anger. "Brimstone": alludes to that shower of fire and brimstone seen in Gen 19:24. Though this verse doesn't speak of an after death judgement, it reveals its counterpart in the NT.

    You can also look at Isaiah 66:22-24. So I can't say why there was not more written about this subject in the OT & even among Jews there are different camps as to what to believe. For me, I think it sufficient that Jesus spoke very clearly about it & treated the everlasting suffering of the sinner as real & it was for this reason He came so that none should fall under the Hand of God (Hebrews 10:31).
  • Sacha on John 3:13
    The word of God is not complicated ,it can be complex but not complicated ,God is not the author of confusion ,we humans can complicate matters for ourselves whe n we come to the Bible with preconceptions of what we are going to find ,we all have them about all kinds of things ,suppositions ,presumptions and asumptions ,when i told one of my step daughters that no where in the Bible are there female angels she was stunned ,if we come to the Bible looking for comfort we will find it ,if we come to the Bible looking for smooth words we will find them ,if we come to the Bible with a truely open mind and heart ,leaving all our memories of fables and magical tales and all our own desires of what we want and expect to find ,we will find the Truth . The Truth shall make us free .
  • Ron - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hey Sacha I agree, if we start our study with the answer in our mind, what we read will support and confirm the answer even if it is wrong. We operate 85 to 90% in our subconscious mind that we have programed over the years of teachings and from things we have seen and heard. Preconceived ideas block the truth, preconceived ideas create a scotoma, a blind spot. If we are dead set on what a certain scripture means and are unwilling to study to see if we may be wrong, how can the Holy Spirit guide us if we already have the answer. We must open our heart before we study, and profess to not know anything, but profess we believe Jesus through the Holy Spirit will lead and show us the truth. It is a blessing to be shown we were wrong by the light of the truth.

    God bless, Ron
  • Sacha on John 3:13
    Hi Chris again ,i think im going to be very cheeky now so i ask you to please forgive me ,you asked Earl what he would say to people who have died and come back or experienced near death experiences , i personally wouldnt say anything to them ,if thats what they or anyone else wants to believe thats fine by me ,i am convinced in my own mind of my beliefs but i honestly dont feel the need to cinvince any one else , if some one asks me what i believe i will tell them but if others dont believe what i do im ok with that ,to me most of the time ,the Bible is very simple and straight forward ,it hasnt always been so but i just keep reading and praying and meditating on things and im convinced of my conclusions .I dont go on any other religious sites ,you tube etc ,i know what i know and im ok if others dont agree ,may God continue to bless you and all yours .
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Sacha,

    As I see this comment was directed towards me I shall respond kindly.

    I very much understand that people have their own beliefs. I respect that as even some of my brothers in Christ do not agree with everything I state. I don't condemn anyone. Though truth is what is most important to me. Please don't take that in that I think I'm smart. I am a humble person.

    I myself have gone through believing that "everyone is to be saved" in the end. Thinking in the same sense of in your other post in that "God is love". As I've stated to Earl this would not bother me as whatever God's Will is I'm for that. Though that perspective did not hold up very long. As Christ teaches about "saved and unsaved" over ten times. Using statements of eternal punishment and eternal life. Eternal being the same Greek word "aionios" meaning just that in both cases.

    I just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isn't, what wrong have we done in that many have come to repentance seeing these things being taught in the Holy Scriptures. Maybe making some be better people by fearing God as we are taught to do and this is the beginning of wisdom.

    Though stating to people there is no hell, or eternal damnation/torment, and there really is. Maybe that made that person not care what they did and, live in sin and iniquity, not caring about anything or anyone but themselves. Ruining their chance at Salvation and eternal life. I would feel really bad.

    As I just go by what the Scripture teaches and has been for thousands of years. Me bringing up people who have been dead and experienced things like paradise/heaven even meeting Jesus Christ also. Just what my journey has lead me to research and believe more in what the Holy Bible teaches.

    Hope all is well Sacha.

    God Bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Richard,

    I agree there is a hell. I believe it because the bible says it!

    To teach otherwise can be dangerous, It sounds similar to Satan discrediting Gods word when Satan deceived Eve.

    "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4.

    And here's scriptural proof they don't just cease from existing.

    1st of all the resurrection, and the term we know as the 2nd death.

    Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a RESURRECTION of the dead, ( both of the just and UNJUST. )

    What's the point in raising the unjust just to send them right back to the grave?

    Matthew 25:41, 46 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:...42..43..44..

    ...And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT:

    but the righteous into life eternal.

    Hell was created for the devil and his angels but his children will go there also, and to take note,

    YOU CAN'T WEEP AND NASH TEETH IF YOU NO LONGER EXIST, NEITHER CAN YOU ENDURE EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

    Matthew 13:42-43. AND SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: ""THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

    Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

    Revelation 20:14-15. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the Second death.

    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

    HERE IT SEEMS TO BE A RELOCATION, AND DEATH ( AND HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!! )

    When the restrainer is taken out of the way

    ( Thes 2:7 )

    you see how evil men really is. War against God ect.

    Revelation 16:9. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

    They'll be just like their father the Devil.

    No repentance. Forever tormented.

    The scripture is clear.

    GB.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on John 3:13
    Thank you for your detailed reply S Spencer.



    God Bless you.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on John 3:13
    You're welcome

    Richard..
  • Sacha - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Richard in Christ ,im so sorry ive created a bit of havoc ! I shall try and get back on track with you if i may , 'everyone is to be saved ' ,im so sorry but i never said that and i wouldnt as i dont believe that ,also 'i just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isnt what wrong have we done '? Math ch15 v7-9 and Mrk ch 7 v1-9 and Rev ch22 v18&19 . The 1st commamdment is to LOVE God not fear him 2nd Tim ch1 v7 ,1st John ch4 v18 and Rev ch21 v8 ,also as a Christian ,what would you say to some one of a different faith ,it doesnt matter which one ,if they told you that they had had a near death or actual death experience that fully validated substantiated and confirmed all their religious beliefs ? I think ive rambled on enough now ,hope you can understand me ok ,im not confident that im always able to express my self clearly ,sorry if im a bit jumbled ,i always know what i want to say but when i read it back it never sounds ok to me .
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hello Sacha,

    No need to be sorry, you have created no havoc. As the "everyone is to be saved" part I don't think I stated you said that. Just that I went through thinking that a while ago. Just in line with "no hell" which is what I think you believe.

    About the couple verses you stated for me as an answer to the first analogy I wrote "I just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isn't what wrong have we done" which is Christ quoting Isaiah 29:13. Which I can't quite link that to this. Then quoting the end of Revelation about changing the prophesies of the Bible. That is why I believe there is a place of eternal torment or "hell". Because the Bible says so. As you didn't reply to the second analogy in that "if people don't believe in "hell" though it really exists". How this could be dangerous to others in my eyes.

    As Adam gave a good reply about to "fear God". This teaching is throughout the Bible as we are also to love Him. Say how you would love your dad but if you do something wrong you may be whipped for it and scared to know it's coming. Though this is much higher as with God. A couple more verses for you Psalms 34:9, Psalms 115:13, Proverbs 3:7, Luke 1:50, Romans 3:18, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Hebrews 12:28, Revelation 19:5.

    As I have over forty verses to love God.

    To the last statement of "if they told you that they had had a near death or actual death experience that fully validated substantiated and confirmed all their religious beliefs ?" Well, as there are hundreds probably thousands of NDE's and some have no experience at all. I have never heard of someone meeting Buddah, Allah, or Muhammed etc. Though I have seen people converted to Christ from those other religions. Even Atheists who didn't believe. As there are many and all are personal and unique. There are many things that connect with the teachings of the Scriptures.

    In kindness.

    God Bless.
  • Sacha - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Richard in Christ , im very sorry if you dont understand my refference to your words : i just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isnt what wrong are we doing ? and Jesus saying : But in vain do they worship me ,teaching for doctrines the commandments of men ,and from revelation : For i testify unto every man that heareth the words if the prophecy of this book , If any man shall add unto these things ,God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book . Im very sorry if you cant see how your words are connected to these references .
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Sacha,

    No problem, please don't take any of my replies harshly. We are conversing peacefully. Saying I don't understand why you quoted those verses to what I stated is that the Holy Bible teaches of a place of eternal torment, or simply hell, and this is not my own teaching(or commandment of men). It is from the Word of God. Also the verses from Revelation. A place of eternal torment is from the Scriptures. Those two contexts of questions was just to show how one way would do no wrong, in the end, and the other way would lead to damnation. The reason I believe in a "hell". Because of the Holy Bible.

    Here's other verses not in the NT about this "place". Just to show there are records of this before the NT. From the Book of Enoch.

    62.10 But the Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before Him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces.

    62.11 And the Angels of Punishment will take them so that they may repay them for the wrong that they did to His children and to His chosen ones.

    63.10 Then they will say to them: "Our souls are sated with possessions gained through iniquity, but they do not prevent our going down into the flames of the torment of Sheol."

    108.4 And there I saw something like a cloud, which could not be discerned, for because of its depth I was not able to look into it. And the flames of a fire I saw, burning brightly, and things like bright mountains revolved and shook from side to side.

    108.5 And I asked one of the Holy Angels, who were with me, and I said to him: "What is this bright place? For there is no sky, but only the flames of a burning fire, and the sounds of crying, and weeping, and moaning, and severe pain."

    108.6 And he said to me: "This place which you see; here will be thrown the spirits of the sinners, blasphemers, those who do evil, and of those who alter everything that the Lord has spoken through the mouths of the prophets. "



    Amen
  • Adam - in Reply on John 3:13
    In reply to " The 1st commandment is to LOVE God not fear him"

    The Bible says many times to fear God. The Bible doesn't say to "not" fear God as you put it. 1 John 4:18 seems to suggest love and fear and opposites. Maybe these are mutually exclusive when it comes to how we treat others, but maybe God in an exception. The Bible clearly says to love God and clearly says to fear God. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that it's both. Some say the fear means a high level of respect rather than a petrified fear. If anyone wants to compare the original Hebrew or Greek to see if its the same word or not, that might be helpful.

    Proverbs 9:10, Ephesians 5:21, Jeremiah 32:39, Luke 12:5, Leviticus 25:17.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on John 3:13
    Hi Adam,

    Just thought I'd look into the words for "fear" as you stated. The Hebrew seems to use two different words that are slightly different though close to the same word. "Yare" as "fearing; morally reverent, afraid" and "yirah" as "fear (also used as infinitive); morally reverence fear, terror, fearing, awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear), fear (of God), respect, piety, revered".

    The Greek words are "phobos" as "alarm or fright, fear, dread, terror, that which strikes terror, reverence for one's husband" and "phobeo" as "to frighten that is (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of that is revere, to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience" simply.
  • Adam - in Reply on John 3:13
    Great, thank you Richard.

    What I was hoping to compare is the word for fear in 1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear) vs. Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell).

    So, I found Bible Hub has a Greek interlinear comparison and found the following:

    1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear): fear = Phobos/phobon (fear, terror, alarm; object or cause of fear; reverence, respect.

    Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell): fear = phobthte (to frighten, be alarmed by. By analogy, to be in awe of; Revere.)

    It appears to be the same root word, but just like in English its common to have different meanings for the same word, like the word 'conceive'. So, I believe at bare minimum fearing God means to be in upmost awe of and reverence. The context of being afraid of the one who can send you to hell seems to indicate a dose of real fear as well, maybe similar to a child being afraid when they risk doing something wrong and fear punishment by their parents, but I think this is different than fear/terror that perhaps is used in 1 John 4:18, that perfect love will get rid of that.

    Interested if anyone else has another perspective on this.


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