John Chapter 17 Discussion



 
  • Alex N on John 17
    The Father and the Son are 2 distinct beings as the Son prays to his Father and the Father tells the world this is my beloveth Son , This Father and Son relationship is unbreakable , If they were the same identical being that wd make the Father a liar. Ya gotta realise the FATHER neva died only the son died, But only his body died his Spirit neva died ,thus he commended his Spirit back to his Father's hands the lil ones ,I will turn my hands to the lil ones ,When a seed dies it multiplies But as Jesus said if a seed dies it will bring forth much fruit, had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, lil ones imply multiplication . Smite the shepard and the sheep will be scattered THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LIL ONES . That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven ,When a seed dies it multiplies and this multiplication implies every one is gonna see him , The field is the world thus the world is gonna birth a baby Christ The Granson Thus everybody is gonna see him, Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me. Jeremiah 30 : 6 The world is in travail and birth pains .

    The very fact that we have a Father and a Son begs the question of a Granson and equally important AN ISRAEL OF GOD , A heavenly Jacob. Thats y the new birth is so important its the means by which Christ will be multiplied in humanity as the stars of heaven ( by his Seed the words of the new covenant ) Without this Abrahamic Trinity there wd have neva been a nation of ISRAEL . likewise without the heavenly trinity there cannot be an Israel of God via the seed of Christ that are gonna be as the stars of heaven. Remember that great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven,Thats y the Sower will go forth to sow his precious seed the living word in humanity. That we might be bornagain of his incorruptible seed. Thus an ISRAEL OF GOD.
  • Walter - in Reply on John 17
    In order to understand God completely we must be born again. The scriptures say no man can say that Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit - meaning everyone without the Holy Spirit can not understand who God is! Take the Apostles Paul; he killed many of the original saints and thought he was doing God's work however on the road of Damascus, a great light shine and Paul (Saul was his name at that time) ask who are thou Lord; the Lord he was referencing was the one, he supposing was serving (Jehovah of the Old Testament); the Lord (to the Israelites there is but one God, hence the reason they have not really excepted Jesus as Lord.

    In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God- the Word was God! The Word became flesh (Jesus Christ) and dwelt among us. Read John 1:1-14

    The bottom line God said I am alpha and omega (first and last) it is natural for us not to understand how someone can be first and last but spiritually we are able to discern if someone is first and last all they are stating the are the only one.

    Jesus was God manifest (clearly shown) in the flesh, there are three manifestation of God but there is only one God and his name is Jesus!
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17
    Hello Walter. You wrote: "if someone is first and last all they are stating the(y) are the only one." If Jesus has stated this (as in Revelation 1:8; Revelation 12:13), could He actually be identifying completely with the One God, from Whom He once proceeded from, as the Word of God given flesh? 'Alpha & Omega' is a very strong loaded phrase that can only be denoted to God, to which the risen Jesus Who sits at the right Hand of God, makes claim to ( Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 10:12; 1 Peter 3:22). If the 'only one God now is Jesus', what happened to the Father, Whom Jesus sits beside? Jesus not only prayed to His Father whilst He walked on Earth, but now reigns with Him ( Revelation 3:21; Revelation 7:10).
  • S Spencer - in Reply on John 17
    Good observation Walter.

    What you are saying is When Paul asked Who are thou Lord he was addressing the Lord he was taught in Judaism, When Jesus answered he realized that The Lord he was addressing IS the Lord of Judaism and He's Jesus. Am I correct?

    God bless.
  • GiGi again - in Reply on John 17
    Walter,

    You are espousing a Oneness Doctrine that denies the Triune nature of God and promotes what as been known as Modalism over the centuries. This teaching has been deemed heresy throughout church history. It is refuted by Scripture as all three persons of the the Godhead presented themselves at Jesus' baptism and Jesus instructed the apostles to baptize in the name each of the Persons of the Godhead.

    People are free to believe and say what they understand to be true. But, likewise, we are free to refute wat we think is false teaching. I suggest that you google "Modalism" to learn more about why I am saying this.

    In His Love,
  • Sangeeth Joseph on John 17
    I believe in a pretrib rapture, what are your views about rature , pretrib, midtrib Bible verses to support it

    and also whether you think the vacc is the mark of the Beast, released step by step into it's full form as described by the Bible.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} "study/try spirits"? - in Reply on John 17
    RLW, Precious friend:

    You say "Prophecy," but Where Does God's "Revelation of The MYSTERY," And 2 Timothy 2:15 {answering 'Confusion'?} fit into your "study" equation?:

    Prophecy vs MYSTERY:

    Link
  • Ronald L Whittemore - in Reply on John 17
    GRACE_ambassador,

    I thought instead of just putting out my understanding to Sangeeth Joseph question, I would list a few questions for study on this thought on end times. Prophecy vs Mystery how does that fit. I'm not sure I follow, I know prophecy mostly is on the house of Israel and for Israel will come to fulfillment in the 1000 years when Jesus sets up the kingdom here on earth.

    But there are prophecies about the end time that will affect individuals, not nations, that are still living when it starts. Some teaching could have some unprepared and may be devastating to someone's faith, I do not take that as vain or unprofitable 2 Timothy 2:15 it was not a question of salvation.

    We know the mystery and the promise in Genesis 22 when Abraham did not withhold his son to sacrifice him. All nations would be blessed through his seed and this was not revealed until after Israel rejected the Messiah Jesus when He first came was only for the house of Israel to confirm the covenant and fulfill it, and the kingdom of God had come, but they rejected it. The gospel of Christ was then given to the Gentiles by Paul, which is the mystery. One of the reasons was to make Israel jealous. Did you know Paul was not the first to preach Christ to the Gentiles?

    I will study the link you put out, not sure if I follow how it relates to what I posted, maybe after I study it I will see.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Carleton - in Reply on John 17
    Good afternoon friend, In a vision as a young man while working, I stood beside the Lamb of God where a voice thundered asking if this is what I was looking for. It has taken nearly thirty years to realize that I also saw the mystery which was and is and is to come, a complete non- resistance to the Father in a visible and Holy Body. However many Saints before died in grace of this knowledge, by faith and the mystery like other prophecy has been already revealed.
  • Ronald L Whittemore - in Reply on John 17
    Sangeeth Joseph,

    Prophecy has been interpreted by misunderstandings and assumptions. It has been misheard and many false teachings have people looking for things that are not coming. Prophecy shows that God is in ultimate control.

    When studying prophecy, God's word (scripture) the Holy Spirit is the interpreter we are not. Prophecy is generally understood after it has been fulfilled, it confirms the word of God and the prophet is of God.

    If we have decided the answer by the teachings we have been taught, or other opinions before we have gone to the Bible in prayer for the facts and truth, the only things we will see in scripture will line up with the conclusion we have already come to. Where did the seven years in this teaching come from? Has the 70-weeks in Daniel been fulfilled already Daniel 9:24-27? Is the rapture (catching up or away) 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 the same as the resurrection, the day of redemption? Is the great tribulation the same as the wrath of God? Is our blessed hope, to be spared great tribulation? How about all the martyrs before us, are we more worthy?

    Does scripture tell us our destination after we meet Jesus in the air? Is there any scripture that says we will be taken or we go to heaven? Are there other scriptures that tell us it will be after the great tribulation? Does scripture tell us every eye shall see Jesus coming?

    These are just a few questions, I hope you take them out of love for study and are not offensive. I could tell you what I believe but if it is different, will not help. Pray and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the truth. It will not be overnight and some questions will never be answered. Your question is the covid shot the mark of the beast, it is not. When that happens Satan is permanently cast down and the beast and the false prophet are full throttles. The mark will be based on worship, whoever will take it will know what they are doing.

    We are told to study and to try the spirits.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • BIRTH PAINS INSTEAD OF pre, mid, post Trib - in Reply on John 17
    I believe the 10 virgins parable.as inbe ready and looking for Jesus every moment.

    Be a watchman of Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

    Perceive Birth Pains. Starts off slow. Events speed up. It's painful to witness the signs of the times speeding up. The sheer amount of population, clueless, as to why life is becoming jaded, and unable to discern that events are becoming harder to bear. Kind of like how our government is becoming more oppressive every day; the earth is hemorrhaging in floods, storms, earthquakes, fires, volcanos; very very hot or much too cold. The discomfort of labor increases to Intolerable!! Second stage continues until birth.

    We can discern that transition is imminent, by what is happening in the world.

    If we act like ostriches any put our heads in the sand (acting like nothing is wrong or blaming it on global warming) we will not see Jesus COMING IN THE CLOUDS.

    If you scripture search that phrase "Coming in the Clouds", it gives us more info on Jesus's Arrival.

    I believe we will clearly see the beginnings of Tribulation Happenings. We see them now. One being, Israel being surrounded by her enemies. The Third Temple in Jerusalem being built. That's happening. You can view the progress on YouTube or Google, every day. Israel will swap land to have full access to all of the Temple Mount.

    This presidency has withdrawn financial and military protection to Israel; and our nation is being invaded by foreign nations. A curse ( Genesis 12:1-3) ( Leviticus 26)

    Only people who are good sign readers are not going to sleep their way through these final moments of earths history, and the reality of the Tribulation to advance in terror and pain.

    See the Signs! Look Up! Your Redemption draws Closer!

    There's a YouTube site that people all over the planet send them videos of daily disasters In their country. "The Two Preachers" , go have a look.
  • Alex on John 17:5
    This John 17 : 5 is telling us that Christ is gonna be Glorfied and he says his Glorfication is the very Glorification of God the Father . Glorify thou me with thine own self, Even with the Glory I had with you before the world was, Remember he died for the whole world. and the script. says the H.G. is the Glorfication of Christ simply b/c the H.G. was not yet given b/c that Christ was not yet Glorfied thus the multiplication of Christ is the multiplication of very God, Thats y he says to whom the word came ( his seed the living word ) it made them Gods . And that is y the scripture is saying the very Father swore by his very self when he made that PROMISE OF MULTIPLICATION OF Christ, when the sower of that Good Seed ( when the book is opened that is when the sower will go forth to sow his seed thus the H.G. will be given , thats y the woman is given Birth which is the H.G. A SPRITUAL CHILD, That which is born of the spirit is spirit as God is spirit thus he will Glorfy/Multiply the Father ,as the H.G. is the Glorfication of God the FATHER. His prayer was Glorify thou me with thine own self etc and the womans child is another Father a baby God ,to whom the Word came it made them Gods . Thats ye he was praying GLORIFY me that I might Glorify you . See his multiplication VIA HIS SEED is the multiplication of VERY GOD IN US. Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a little Child this implies a heavenly birth of Christ in US. The Father said i have Gloried it and i will Glory it again, there has been an intermission of 2 k yrs. 2 DAYS. It was glorIfied a bit at Pentecost but they ran outta of that 1 st wine the H.G. wine and we will receive that 2 nd wine on the 3 rd day the day of the marriage .At the wedding they received the best Wine the 3 rd day., Ya remember the wedding CHIEF said You have kept the best Wine for last. As Paul said when that which is perfect is come that which is done in part will be done away with.
  • Sande Robert on John 17:3
    Hallelujah

    Am so blessed for you
  • Bet on John 17
    How did Jesus equip and prepare us to fulfill His vision in John 17:5-26
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17
    There are numerous ways that God uses to "equip and prepare us" according to what the Lord Jesus prayed for.

    At the base of all spiritual living & work, lies Christ's fully accomplished work on the Cross. And after successfully providing redemption & defeating the power of Satan to all who would believe, Jesus sent to us His Spirit to confirm, seal & establish our hearts in this new life.

    So with the basis of the Cross & the Gift of the Holy Spirit, God's children are being prepared for higher service & a part of that preparation is the "equipping of the saints". Those believers who remain obstinate to the Spirit's urging, never grow spiritually, never receive the abundance of Heaven, & never impact others with Christ's Love.

    The Spirit gives us much so that the Purposes of God are accomplished in the believer, in the Church & in the World. He has blessed us with those with particular Gifts for the building up of Christ's Church & to use to bless others. The power of the Gospel to the unsaved is found both in the power of God's Word & by the testimony of those so changed by it. The depth & richness from the Word comes from the Holy Spirit & in those whom He fills with such knowledge so that our knowledge might also increase. And not to mention the burden of praying saints, those giving of their substance, their time, their energies, & those who would get beside those under weight of some sin or temptation, all speak of the life-giving power of God to bring about His Purposes & blessings to others.

    As Jesus prayed, "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:23: to the end that the Church may be found 'unified with the Godhead in perfection'. And this was the desire of the apostles: Jude 24; Ephesians 5:27; Colossians 1:27,28; Romans 12:1: that in the Day of Presentation, the God's people might stand pure, holy, & unashamed.
  • Timothy Canterbury on John 17:17
    Did God send angels to earth to cut down the great trees prior to the flood to prevent the survival of the giants.
  • Other John 17 Comments - in Reply on John 17:17
    These are some other comments posted on THAT verse of scripture. I don't see anything referring to trees. See if you meant a different scripture?I've never run across anything saying the vegetation was revised by God because of giants.

    Past Comments:

    1 month ago by Modesto Olivo on John 17:17

    In my local Sunday Bible class we are going over John 17: 14-24, KJV. The lesson is entitled, "Called As The Intercessor" Thats where I came across verse 17. And, as sometimes happens, the verse drew me to it. I'm writing because of something that was mentioned in your "People's Bible Notes." "The means of canonization is not a Pope, but the "truth." As a former Catholic i am glad to see you make that distinction. I think that's important, very important. Thank you, for taking the time to read my opinion.

    6 years ago

    Allen on John 17:17

    This is a wonderful promise of Jesus for each one of us. Praying to be sanctified in His truth. I bow down before Him and praise Him now and forever more. Amen

    6 years ago

    Efffah on John 17:17

    THIS IS THE WORD OF WE HAVE TO BELIEVE GOD AND RESPECT THE LAWS OF GOD AMEN

    Hope this helps. The Bible Commentary on this website agrees too. Mishael
  • Richard - in Reply on John 17:17
    The waters were 15 cubits( approx 21 inches each) above the mountains. Genesis 7
  • SkipVought - in Reply on John 17:17
    Timothy,

    The Flood lasted 5 months. No one, even a huge man who might climb a tree, could survive without food for 150 days.

    "And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." Gen 7:24
  • Paula King on John 17:17
    Who was speaking in John 17?
  • Marilyn S - in Reply on John 17:17
    John 17 is the prayer that Jesus Christ spoke shortly before His arrest and crucifixion around 2000 years ago. How do I know? Because in verse 17:1 it states, "These words spake Jesus and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son that thy Son also may glorify Thee." So Jesus, the core or central figure in Christianity is the one who is speaking in John 17 and while Jesus is his name in English we call Him Jesus Christ because the term "Christ" means "anointed" or "anointed one".

    In Matthew 16:15-17 Jesus confirms He is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    If you were wondering more specifically about John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth..." then Jesus Christ is still the answer for as it says in John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me:" So He was saying sanctify them through the truth (through Me) for I am the truth.

    I hope this helps.
  • Albert J Bloom on John 17:21
    A Friend of mine, told me he doesn't worship Jesus, he only worship the Father, the most high God, I said, they are one ,they can't be separated, it's like Water, Ice, steam, water you can't comprehend it(Father) , ice, it's solid, ( Jesus) you can touch it, and steam, ( Holy Spirit) 3 different functions, but all in divine unity as One purpose!
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17:21
    You could also cite the many Scriptures that speak of those who fell down & worshipped Jesus. And this was not people doing obeisance to a 'mighty Prophet of God', but in recognition that this Holy One came from God & to be worshipped as they would God.

    A few Scriptures: Matthew 2:10,11 (the magi from the East before the Babe). Matthew 8:2 (by a Leper). Matthew 9:18. Matthew 14:33. John 9:36-38. Acts 10:25,26 (an account where Peter refused the worship of Cornelius).

    I always pray to the Father, but I find no reason why I can't pray to the Lord Jesus & glorify & worship Him also.
  • Jimers on John 17
    I've heard it said that Jesus did not make a "name" for the way of truth that He taught for the approx 3 years he was here on earth. And perhaps the reason was because He brought one way, one faith and one baptism. Some have said He didn't have to make a name because He didn't teach 2,000 or more different ways to worship God. That has always been an interesting question to me.

    And Jesus said He didn't have a place to lay his head. Foxes have holes, birds nest but the Son of man hath not a place to lay His head. That's just so interesting to me. Why would Jesus go out homeless?

    Apparently there was nearly always someone who would want Him to stay in their home. What a privilege...... Then were His disciples also homeless? Following His example. Perhaps they also would be welcome in the homes of the believers so they could visit..... A couple nights here and there etc. would it not be the simplest way possible and not to be a burden on anyone and what blessing for those who were chosen to invite the disciples into their homes.??
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17
    Indeed, Jesus is the Way, the only Way to God ( John 14:6) & we ought to have only one Church teaching the same as Jesus did. Yet, even though most will agree to Jesus being the only way, other suggestions have since cropped up to help us make sure that we do get to Heaven. Praying to the saints & departed loved ones, doing good works, purgatory, etc. are all believed in to guarantee acceptance. Yet all these things take away from the complete work of Jesus at the Cross & God's accepting it so that we might be forgiven. So by adding to our salvation, we actually remove Jesus from being the only Way to God.

    As Jesus & His disciples travelled about, there would be occasions where they may have found some people who gave them shelter for the night, but not all would have aligned themselves with Jesus, especially because of pressure from the Jewish religious leaders to refuse Jesus. So when there was no roof to sleep under, maybe under trees or in caves became their overnight stop. It was a hard life indeed, but God's Message needed to go out, God's Power & Presence needed to be seen & God's Sacrifice needed to be offered - nothing, even lack of a roof, would deter Jesus in His Mission & His disciples would have learned many great lessons as well during their travels & hardships that would have stood them well, at which time they too would receive the Holy Spirit & go out on their Mission in the Spirit's Power.
  • Marilyn Taplin - in Reply on John 17
    You say, "at which time they too would receive the Holy Spirit & go out on their Mission in the Spirit's Power."

    Once again we need a definition of the Holy Spirit. What is the Spirit's power?
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17
    To properly define the Holy Spirit, as you know would take several pages & even then we would not do justice because of our limited understanding from the Word. So briefly, without giving references at this stage, the Holy Spirit is:

    a. a Person within the Triune God: proved by His Names, His Characteristics, His Works & His association with the Father & the Son.

    b. He proceeded from the Godhead eternally & without any dividing or change in God's Nature.

    c. He was involved in Creation, the Virgin Birth, in Christ's Life, Ministry, Death & Resurrection & also for the sake of mankind (convicting, regenerating, indwelling, baptizing, sealing).

    d. He gave gifts to God's children & fills them so they can lead God-honouring lives with joy & in power. In so doing, He teaches us, guides us, gives assurance & comfort, & helps us to pray.

    e. He came upon the men of old (including Christ's disciples) in measure, according to their appointment, but now, in fulness to reside in all of God's children.

    f. He inspired the writing of God's Word & leads us into God's Truth & even today empowers men to preach the Gospel & to stand for Christ even in the face of death.

    And so "what is the Spirit's Power?" As can be gleaned from the incomplete list above, the Holy Spirit is the very Presence of God sent to the world to bring conviction to the hearts of men of their sin & their separation from God and to indwell every one who has come to God in faith because of His Son. To us, we have all the resources from God to live a victorious life, using His Gifts for the blessing of His people, having the power & joy to serve God, to withstand Satan & his followers around us & to increase our faith when we falter. Yet He is so often stifled in His Work in us, because of unconfessed sin & by taking our eyes off Jesus & looking to the world or within ourselves. But "greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the World".
  • Marilyn Taplin - in Reply on John 17
    God is truth, Jesus brings truth to earth, the Holy Spirit is the truth. They are all three truth and they are the same truth.

    The Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is truth. When you have the Holy Spirit in you, you have the truth of God in you.

    The truth will lead all people to God. Truth is sent to people to convince and to bring conviction to the sinner. When a person has the Holy Spirit, they have the truth within them making it possible to speak the truth. When a person departs from the truth they are profane, meaning unholy and they cannot speak the truth.

    It is confusing to think of the Holy Spirit as a person. The Holy Spirit is the truth that can go everywhere. It can be spoken, written, go out on the radio and television and the internet. Yes, truth it does convict the sinner. It can go throughout the entire world.

    Read again what you have written with the knowledge that the Holy Spirit is the truth of God.
  • Chris - in Reply on John 17
    I can heartily agree with your first paragraph that the Triune God is very Truth. But then you say that the Holy Spirit is not a person. And it's at this point that we have to dwell.

    Before I give you some Scriptures, let me ask, "what if God chose to embody His "Truth" (the Holy Spirit), with flesh, as He did to His "Word"? Would that alter your belief that the Spirit is more than the Truth (a Word) of God, but very God Himself by His Spirit?

    Some Scriptures for you to consider that the Holy Spirit is not only the 'Truth of God' but sent from God as God: 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (He is Intelligent, He searches, He knows, He has a Will); Ephesians 4:30 (He has feelings - can be grieved & He seals the believer); John 14:26 (He teaches; notice the pronoun); John 16:13, Romans 8:14; Acts 8:29 (He guides, leads, speaks, hears, glorifies God); Acts 13:4 (He commissions or despatches); Romans 8:26,27 (He intercedes); Matthew 12:31 (He can be blasphemed); Acts 5:3 (He can be lied to); Acts 7:51 (He can be resisted); Hebrews 10:29 (He can be outraged). And these are just a few to consider.

    Then if we leave off the word 'Spirit' & replace it with 'Truth' in those Scriptures (as you asked me to try out), in some cases, it could work as the Spirit is Truth, as God & the Son are Truth. But in other cases, that just wouldn't work (e.g. how does the Truth (as a spoken Word) grieve, search, has a Will, feelings, hears, glorifies, commissions, intercedes, blasphemed against, etc.?). And then again, why did God not just use the word 'Truth' (as in 'the Truth shall set you free') but rather shows us that His Spirit (of Truth) was sent to accomplish these tasks? I can see if someone has difficulty with the Doctrine of the Trinity, then understanding the Spirit's part in the Godhead would be a problem.
  • Fred Scanlan on John 17
    What is mentioned about the law and gospel? How do they differ from each other, while at the same time complementing each other? Like you say Paul teaches concerning the things of the church, Peter describes the Christ to the Judaizer. What then is the overall message we need to hear and understand?


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