James Chapter 1 Discussion Page 3

  • Issac Bourne - in Reply on James 1
    1) Many people think that in order for eternity to be eternal. time cannot exist.

    Revelation 8:1

    King James Version

    8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    You cannot measure time where time does not exist. What makes eternity eternal is that the process of aging no longer exists. Time passes, aging does not increase.

    2) What about 2 Peter 3:8?

    2 Peter 3:8

    King James Version

    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    The key phrase here is with the Lord. This is a time comparison between how time passes here, and how time passes in Heaven. If you turn this into a equation aka fraction. It would look like this: 1 day/1 thousand years. To make this easier to understand we need to make this a year to year comparison. So to make a day one year we would have to times it times 365. To keep the value of the fraction we also must times 1,000 years times 365. And this is what we get: 1 year/365.000 years. So when 1 years passes here, 365,000 years pass in Heaven.

    What does that mean? Heaven is 365,000 times faster than we are. What does this answer?

    a) Why we cannot see God or the angels. Because how do you see something 365,000 times faster then you?

    b) How God can know all see all. At that speed He can see everything.

    c) How the angels can be there in the nick of time to save you. etc...

    3) So why is it that some things date old and young? God aged things 2 different ways:

    a) By the passage of time.

    b) By His word aka no passage of time required.

    2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

    So in other words, God can speak age into His creation when He creates it. All life was created with age already added as to the reason they were told to go forth and multiply.... Running out of room, so I address dinosaurs next reply.
  • Mishael - in Reply on James 1
    I don't think we live in a choice society anymore. It takes extreme love and sacrifice to raise children these days. I admire your commitment very much.
  • Carleton - in Reply on James 1
    I know it is not possible for everyone but we drive 180 miles a day, five days a week so that our son can go to a self-funded Christian school (fortunately for our son he only has to travel half the weekly distance). We have also home schooled in the past with all three children.
  • The Bible vs Public Education - in Reply on James 1
    Basically the Bible teaches us to love God, and HATE sin.

    There is no fuzziness in what the Bible teaches in Romans 1, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:22

    My kid came home from school upset because he had to take a test the next day: and agree that man evolved from apes. He knew it was blasphemy because I quizzed him. I told him that he had MY PERMISSION and SUPPORT to FLUNK THAT TEST!! We would make extra credits some other way.

    If we don't agree with what public education is teaching our kids: instead of warming a church pew, teach in children's church what the truth is.

    What did King David do as a young shepherd boy when he heard his God being cursed by the Philistines? He went down to the battlefield and took off Goliaths head!!

    If a kid flunks a test find out how much it reduces the grade point average for the course.

    Our children need to know they do not have to conform to something they do not believe in, MORALLY. Do your kids know what morals are? They aren't being taught that in school. Colleges beat in your brains with godless information till you cave in and say what they want on a test. Choose a Christian College!

    In 1962, the Lords Prayer, the Ten Commandments and the Pledge of Allegiance to our National Flag was removed from schools. That was bad... but now they are forcing our kids to be gay, so they can belong. Even 6 year old kids who don't even know what sexual acts are. Do they know what sexual diseases are? That they are itchy, ooze, and cause irreparable harm to the body, so they can't have children later?

    It takes guts to stand up for your kids and say NO to the gay education reformers. You'd fight back if someone tried to muscle you out of a parking place.

    Teach your children & grandchildren about God. One day we will give an account to Gods Face, what we personally did about His Word - the Bible! There's no reward for cowardice or APATHY!

    Speak up before it's TOO LATE.

  • Dee on James 1
    What does the bible say about a mother that rapes and lets men rape her children daily for years ? What am I as a christian supposed to do as a grandmother ?
  • Genesis versus Old Earth Heresies by Mishael - in Reply on James 1
    I'm Holy Spirit educated. He's our Teacher and I prefer to sit at His feet.

    I'm going to make this real short. All sciences show something was on earth before Adam. It's been proven there were earth wide "kill" events, like when dinosaurs died.

    Those things happened before the first 2 words were spoken in Genesis: IN BEGINNING.

    What had existed, existed OUTSIDE of Time. God first created TIME. The clock started ticking.

    Only the Godhead existed. Also as we read of the battle between God and the rebellion of evil, in the Book of Revelation; also in Isaiah and other places (word search, Lucifer). There were CREATED beings, i.e. angels and demonic beings.

    Genesis actually can skip forward a few chapters, and go backwards to where the skip started. It works better if you take NOTES on each event.

    You MUST have a reference Bible with CENTER OF EACH PAGE references. It will send you forward or backward, to other RELEVANT information.

    Since John 1:1 tells us that Jesus is the WORD, and He is God. A member of the Godhead: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

    The things that existed before God created time, are not mentioned in the Bible. There was never a Book with chapters included in the Bible about what was in the universe before Gen. 1:1

    Why?? Because this Bible is a story about ONE person. The Son of God. It's his story. He is the Savior of the world. No other person can own that Title. Name ABOVE all other names.

    If you've read of "Old Earth Theories", then you are reading false religion and being contaminated. Do a google on that. Those are theories!! Not one of them is WRITTEN in the Bible.

    Time started when God spoke, IN BEGINNING.

    You need to make your mind up WHO you are following. JESUS or...something NOT in the Bible.

    Note: Satan and all his followers are destined for Hell and the Lake of Fire.

    Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. To confirm TRUTH. Jesus is the WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE.

  • Shelia Pendergraft - in Reply on James 1
    I was trying to get information to teach a lesson against this to the children that are being exposed to this in public schools. It makes me sick that this has just become an acceptable way of life. We must love the sinner but hate the sin and it is so hard for these kids to understand this when they are being taught it by people they are suppose to respect and believe.
  • Ron - in Reply on James 1
    Hi Isaac, I understand wanting to be confident in your heart. After the flood Noah and his three sons are descendants of Adam so all on earth today are from Adam so Gentiles are descendants of Adam. Like Chris said there is not a lot in scripture to support if there were people before Adam, because there was 1656 years from Adam until the flood and there is so much that is not covered.

    The main view is Adam and Eve are the male and female on day six. Comparing day six with chapter 2. Does chapter 2 match the male and female in day six? Is it different enough that can show these are two different events?

    Does it change or alter God's plan of salvation? Either way Adam "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven". "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. We know Jesus was not the second man on earth so, can we say Adam was the first man? Was Adams purpose to start mankind or the start of the plan to undue the works of Satan (devil)?

    Just a few things you can study.

    Day 5 all out of the water, flying creatures, fowls.

    Chap. 2 out of the ground every fowl.

    Day 6 all beasts of the earth Strong's #776. erets Definition earth, land, countries

    Chap. 2 beasts of the field ( ha--eh). Strongs #7704 meaning; field, land, agriculture.

    Day 6 the male and female was created last to rule over what God had created.

    Chap 2 God formed man out of the dust, put him in the garden and gave the command. God for first time said it was not good for him to be alone. God said He would make a help meet. God then formed out of the dust beasts and fowl of the field for Adam to name. Then God because a help meet was not found took a rib from Adam and made Eve.

    As far as Cain, Adam and Eves family were all in the presence of God in the land of Eden, Cain was the first to be driven out of Eden and from the presence of God. Cain's wife?

    God bless, Ron
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on James 1
    Hello Isaac,

    Just for a little reply. And I have no problem with your questions as questions are good. As your motive is to be solid and sharpen your sword.

    Though it does not say where the seventh day ended, as the other days, with a evening and morning. It does concur that God ended His work on the seventh. Blessing that day and resting from all His work in creation. Genesis 2:2-3.

    As said I see it Genesis 2:4 and further are just going over details of His creation work. As it goes over heaven, earth, plants, then to the details of Adam and Eve and naming all the animals etc.

    I myself don't see an 8th day.

    God Bless you Isaac.
  • William Dando - in Reply on James 1
    God stated this in the third person. Meditate on this.
  • Issac - in Reply on James 1
    Yes the 7th day is a day of rest. 2 things.

    1) The 7th day did not end like the other 6 days. Not sure what that means though but someone else pointed that out to me so it might have some bearing on this,

    2) Jesus healed someone on the sabbath, and when the priests got after him for that, what did He say?

    So you can work on the sabbath but only if you have to. The Bible never says where day 7 ended so the second creation of man and animals might have been on day 8. Not this is not a argument per say, it's a iron sharpens iron type of thing, And i want to make sure every argument is considered, proven wrong, and move on. Without denominational glasses on. Looking at the Bible with fresh eyes to seek the truth in this by first trying to prove it right.

    Why try to prove it right first? Because if it's wrong, you won't be able to prove it right using God's word at all. And then by default you prove it wrong. God cannot speak to us on correction if we already make up our minds on truth and lies. So my goal here is not to prove it right, but to test it to make sure before I discard it.

    If we assume because we have been taught something else, then we are not listening to God's Word speak to use through the Holy Spirit. I'm hoping it's not right because of the uphill battle I'll have in several arguments with other creationists. But if it is right, then I accept that and fight that battle.

    I am YEC aka believe literal creation.
  • Adam - in Reply on James 1
    Yes, it is.

  • Adam - in Reply on James 1
    This topic isn't addressed in the Bible, but I can share my own opinion. I believe anything that hurts a child is wrong. A child growing up without a father is harmful for the child. God designed us to be raised by a man and a woman. The genders are different by design and for a reason. If someone wants to circumvent that because they hate men or feel desperate or just want a child for selfish reasons outside of a marriage, I believe that is morally wrong and a sin. That is my opinion, because I know it creates great hardship on a child being raised in a broken home out of the gate. If a woman wants a child that's not a family, that's a broken home. She must be married to a man first and have kids to be considered a family. God bless.
  • William Dando - in Reply on James 1
    Shelia, do you believe the words you read in your bible? God condemns same gender sexual relationships. This is not His design. Understand that order and relationship and its purpose were created by God. Sin is simply not following Gods design. Lying, not his design. Stealing, not his design. Murder, not his design. And so it is with relationships, like honor thy father and thy mother. That is his design and will lead to health and stability and peace. Things like homosexuality ect. tend to disorder and unhealthy relationships. God has forgiven our sin but he still wants us to pursue a life worthy of having his spirit dwell in us while we wait for our ultimate home in a new body.

    I hope this helps you approve things that are excellent.
  • Shelia Pendergraft on James 1
    Homosexuality is a sin?
  • Tulisile on James 1
    Is artificial insemination a sin? If a woman who wants to have a family but she doesn't want to sleep with a man
  • DELORES J SMITH on James 1
    Psalm's 91:11 who made the statement
  • Chris - in Reply on James 1
    Hi Isaac, I agree with your first comment on God's sixth day of creation. However, from there when you wrote "Then on day seven, he (man) is created again", I don't see it that way. Genesis chapter 2 speaks of God resting from all His Work & He blessed & sanctified that seventh day of rest. So there was no further creating, as God had accomplished all His planned creative Work on the six days.

    Genesis 2:4 onwards then describes what God had done & how He made man (in Genesis 1:1-31). We're not told how He made man in chapter 1, only that He created man & woman. Then chapter 2 details how this was done, introducing this man Adam (made from dust) & Eve, who was 'take out of man', Adam. This is the way I understand these two chapters.

    I know there are other interpretations of this, similar to what you shared. However, I don't see any reference to a second creation of mankind. If this were so, we would have to ask, 'what happened to that other creation, as there is no mention of them?' And if there was another creation, did they also sin as Adam & Eve did, or were they sinless? Could there be some sinless tribe or nation also living among us? It would be strange that the Bible would be very quiet on this other creation. Does Jesus' sacrifice also include them - but then again, they would never know about it, & the apostles were never alerted to this 'fact' by the Lord? Or, maybe when Cain left for the land of Nod, his sinful nature (from his parents) also infected this other creation. The possibilities are endless, but without scriptural support. It's best to stick with what is revealed to us in the Word & just admit ignorance where what we seek is not revealed.
  • Sacha on James 1
    In the words of Michael Palin : 'Is this the right room for an arguement ' ? It seems to me that some people like to pick them just for fun ,thats fine .as long as they are getting their kicks good for them ,if you dont want to argue dont take the bait ,thats my stratergy ,never give people who are just looking for a reaction what they want ,ever .
  • Tom - in Reply on James 1
    Best answer- Yes and amen!! Those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God!
  • Issac on James 1
    In the creation where man is created on day six and told to go forth and multiply. Animals were created also in the 6 days.

    Then on day seven, he is created again, stuck in a garden, given a name. Then woman is created from his rib. Then the animals are created again and put before Adam to name. The first creation of man and animal it says they were *Created*. Second creation of man and animal it says that God *Formed* them.

    The first creation was not stuck in a garden and was told to go forth a multiply.

    The second formed creation was not told to go forth and multiply and was stuck in a garden. In fact when they sinned, Eve was cursed with the pain of child bearing.

    I've been in the creation ministry for over 25 years and this idea of a dual creation has always been in the back of my mind. Never pushed it or preached it. But pondered it many times. Because a dual creation of man answers where Cain God his wife. And where the Gentiles came from.

    Created = God creating like He did everything else.

    Formed = a more personal creation that was to be eternal aka why they were stuck in the garden where God would visit, yet the first creation God did not visit aka walk with them because they were not eternal.

    The formed eternal creation sinned, and that stopped them from being eternal and they had to be removed from the garden where eternity existed until they sinned. Cast out where the first creation was aka outside the garden. And where Cain found his wife.

    Now I'm not saying this is right teaching, but creating the first man and the second differently (in wording), could that be God relaying a dual creation? For why else word it differently, put the 2 creations in different areas. Then leave the question of where did Cain get his wife? Now why a dual creation? I'm not sure, maybe something to do with eternity and non-eternity. But I do see this also going along with other parts of the Bible as well.
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 1
    Hello again Adam,

    I think you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying. Maybe it might help if instead of me further trying to explain what I am saying if I tell you what I am not saying.

    First of all, I am not saying that doing good is bad. I have never said that and I never will. And no, I am not suggesting that obeying Jesus has unpure motives. Hopefully, no one else got that same impression from what I said. If I gave you that impression, then I offer my sincere apologies to you.

    You tell me that your perspective is different and that you feel that obeying Jesus is good and that helping others is good. I agree completely with you on that, so how is my perspective different from yours?

    Please know that I am not trying to convince you that doing good is bad. I would never try and convince anyone of that because I know that would be far from the truth. I don't believe that at all!

    God bless!!!
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on James 1
    As you stated. If it may be the way we word things we post that may seem we might not see eye to eye. I don't think we are far off from each other. Though really the most important thing is that we are both with the Lord. As some of my other brothers and sisters here may not agree with me fully on everything. That's ok though. Again the most important thing is Jesus Christ. It is good for us to converse and if we do not agree on a certain point that's ok. We are still of the body of Christ and only trying to help one another.

    Just for a couple other Scriptures with some things that are "above", of God, and "agathos" is not used:

    Matthew 5:16 and Matthew 13:37-38. About letting your light shine before men of your "good" works to glorify our Father. That the "good" seed are the children of the Kingdom sowed by the Son of Man.

    John 10:11. Jesus Christ stating He is the "good" Shepherd.

    1 Timothy 2:3. Things being "good" and acceptable in the sight of God.

    Titus 2:14. That we who are redeemed by the Lord be zealous of "good" works.

    Hebrews 6:5. How the Word of God is "good".

    James 2:7. The "worthy" name by which we were called.

    To end I liked this one. Galatians 5:22. Both "agathos.." and "chrestotes" are fruits of the Spirit.

    As I really can't differentiate that only "agathos.." is of the Spirit of God. That being the word Jesus used in Mark 10:18 does not mean to me this is only for Him. As other words like "excellence, righteous, honorable, wonderful, amazing, almighty, glorious, holy, beautiful, perfect, integrity, etc". To me this does not mean we would have to pick only one of these words for God. All of them fit Him perfectly. As I believe in the Greek, and most other languages, they have different words with somewhat of the same meaning.

    God Bless.
  • Bill - in Reply on James 1
    The simple answer is being led by the spirit of God .
  • Adam - in Reply on James 1
    Hi Jesse,

    Thank you for your added detail.

    I'm not sure where you get this idea though: "There is a difference, and God will only reward us for one of these two."

    It sounds like you interpret good works to be bad unless you feel a certain spiritual confirmation before or during the good work activity? How exactly did you come to this understanding and what Bible sources can you cite to say this?

    I find this unusual, because I find life as a Christian has a spiritual component that is hard to separate. I believe something of the 'flesh' is easier to identify, because it usually involves unpure motives and sin. But it sounds like you're suggesting that obeying Jesus (such as doing good works to help others) has unpure motives and you put a screening layer in place which you have to navigate through in order to feel good about obeying Jesus.

    My perspective is different. I feel that obeying Jesus by default is good, and that helping others by default is good, and already is done via spirit and not fleshly. It would be really hard to convince me that doing good is bad, because doing good is all through the Bible. Galatians 6:9, Matthew 5:16, Ephesians 2:10. We're created to do good works and be the light of the World are we not? James 2:14-17, James 4:17, Micah 6:8. I don't think my motives or my mood even matters sometimes, it's not about me, but serving others and being obedient. Selflessness.

    So, my question is: does someone have such a strong filter for all other aspects of life or only when it comes to obeying Jesus and help others? Brushing teeth? Eating a meal? Gassing up a car? Going to work? Watching movies? If the strong filter is only on doing good works, but not on neutral activities, or bad works, then I would think such a perspective seems off balance. Because why should we hesitate only when it comes to doing good and have to pass certain criteria, but have no problem doing anything other than good?

    Let me know if I have misinterpreted your meaning and where you got the idea about good works requiring certain criteria for God to like it? God bless...
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 1
    Hi Richard,

    You are free to join the conversation anytime as this is an open forum. I completely agree with you that God is good. Perhaps maybe the way we word things (Not just you and me) might cause us to sometimes be in disagreement, even though we might believe the same thing. I only used those two words because I was trying to show the difference between the good of God, and humanitarian good.

    Any time the word good is used when referring to God, it is the word Agathos. Jesus said when answering the man who called Him good master, He said why did you call me Agathos? There is only one who is Agathos, and that is God. This man was speaking to deity and he used the proper word for good.

    I agree that there are a few other words than the two I mentioned, but none of the others can be specifically applied to God Himself. When we say God is good, we are saying God is Agathos. There are words in our English bible where we see a word in English and we only come away with one meaning to that word. Good is just one example.

    Another example would be the word carnal. We see the word carnal in English, and we might assume that carnal is always bad. Well, it can be bad. But did you know a believer can be carnal and it is perfectly normal?

    I understand where you're coming from and I think we do agree on some things. I chose those two words because I believe that Godly good is Agathos, and humanitarian good is Kalos. The other words can also be used, although if I used those words, they would not properly convey the point I was trying to make.

    I am running out of space with so much more to write, but I will cut it off here. You bring up a couple of verses in 1 Timothy that I've not thought about before which is a good thing because it challenges me to search the scriptures, and I do thank you for that.

    God Bless!!!
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on James 1
    Hello Jesse,

    Please forgive me as I don't want to get in between the discussion of you & Adam. Though I feel to write my perception on this matter. As I believe it is important to us all.

    To begin I don't feel what you stated about the two Greek words for "good", meaning one is of God and the other of men, is completely accurate. First I would say everything good is of God weather the person knows God literally or not. As Love is of God and those who abide in love are of Him to 1 John 4:7. Now weather that person has been drawn to the light, Jesus Christ, yet is up to God. Also stated in Romans 2:12-15 about how those who do what is right or "good", even though they have not heard the law, shows Gods law written on their hearts. They being obedient to God and not even knowing it.

    Back to the word "good" in the Greek. The two words you gave are the two words used the most for "good" in the NT. G18 and G2570. Though they are not the only words used for simply put "good". We have "cherestotes-G5544", "eudokia-G2107', and "eupoiia-G2140" for a couple others. Showing in Hebrews 13:16 that just because it's not the word "agoth.." doesn't mean God isn't pleased with it.

    Also how in a couple instances like 1 Timothy 6:18, and 1 Timothy 5:10. the words "agoth.." and "kalos" are both used in the same verse.

    Now of coarse what you stated in that if someone seems to be trying to "earn" there way into Heaven, by good works, hopefully they will find out there is only one way and that is Jesus Christ. We have all fallen short in our lives. Thanks be to the Grace of our Father in Heaven He sent us His Son. To now focus on Him and let Him lead the way for us. We need Jesus Christ our Lord just as we need our Father in Heaven.

    God Bless you Jesse. Please don't let my message come to you the wrong way. It is from the heart.
  • Carleton - in Reply on James 1
    brother Jesse, I am going to meditate on that thought!

    God bless our faithfulness!
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 1
    Thanks, Carleton for sharing that from the Spanish Bible. I did not know that. The word "Word" in the Greek text is the word LOGOS. How would we be able to tie LOGOS in with "el Verbo" to come up with the same meaning of the word "Word"?

    LOGOS is a very special word that began to be used around 600 years before Christ by the Greek philosophers. LOGOS was not just the word, but LOGOS was the thinker behind the universe.

    I guess if "el Verbo" describes an action, and to the Greeks, the LOGOS was known as the "Thinker behind the universe," the action would be God's creation? Just a thought!
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 1

    Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's nice to be able to come and share our perspectives. You ask me about my statement that a doer of the word doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it, so please allow me to explain myself. I gave the context on James 1:22, but perhaps I could have simplified it some.

    What I'm trying to show is the difference between a "hearer" and a "doer" of the word. What I'm also showing is the difference between a true believer (one who has been born of God's Spirit), and a person who claims to be a believer or Christian, but has never been born of the Spirit.

    A hearer only is someone who hears the word but has never applied it to his/her heart, and the consequence is that they never produce any spiritual fruit. Sure, they might go out and do "good" things because, you know, "the bible tells me to." But that's the wrong approach to take. If a person does good out of human ambition, or they feel obligated to, God's not going to reward them for that.

    The only good we can do that is pleasing to God is when we are being persuaded by His Spirit to do good. There are two words for good in the Greek text that we must be able to differentiate between. One is human good (Kalos). And the good that is produced by, and is the result of God's Spirit working in a believer's life and persuading the believer to do good is (Agathos).

    When we do good, are we doing it because God's Spirit is persuading us to do it? Or are we doing it because the bible tells us to do it, so we better "get busy" and start doing it? There is a difference, and God will only reward us for one of these two.

    One is works-based, and the other is produced by God's Spirit. The "hearer only" cannot produce spiritual good. The doer is the one who both hears the word, applies it to his/her heart, and then submits to the persuasion of God's Spirit working through them to produce the good. But He produces it, we don't!

    Hopefully, I've explained myself?

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