Isaiah Chapter 45 Discussion

  • S Spencer - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    Nice Post Philip.


  • Giannis - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    Hi Phillip.

    Well said, you are right about those.

    I looked it up in a Hebrew religious site. The exact translation from the Hebrew Bible was written as:

    Isa 45:18

    "ki ke amr ieue BURA eshmim eua ealeim ITZR eartz (Hbr)

    thus that he-says Yahweh one-creating theheavens he theElohim one-forming theearth (Eng)

    uOSHe eua KUNNe la theu brae lshbth itzre ani ieue uain oud (Hbr)

    andone-making-ofher he he-establishedher not chaos he-createdher toto-dwell-of he-formedher I Yahweh andthere-is-no further (Eng)"

    BURA, ITZR, OSH, KUNN are the words you are reffering to, they show a God's characteristic for the specific action. I noticed that "Yahweh" is written as "ieue" and "he" as "eua"(they seem to be very similar) and "one" ias "u". Also "Elohim" as "Aleim" which is plural in Hbr since the ending "im" always shows the plural form. The singular form is "El", in Hbr "Al".

  • Philip Christian Parks on Isaiah 45
    The LORD; Isa. 45:18 = When written in all capital letters as it is here, the title LORD renders GOD's unknown, incommunicable, unpronounceable Proper NAME.

    It translated from the Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH (Eng. transliteration.).

    The Hebrews added the vowels from their title "adonay" (Eng. "lord") to the tetragrammaton YHWH to derive the more pronounceable name "JEHOVAH" (or "YAHWEH").

    When recorded in this all-capitals manner, the title "LORD" Identifies "The Eternal, SELF-Existing ONE.

    created; Isa. 45:18 = Translated from the Hebrew verb root "bara'" (transliterated; pronounced "baw-RAW"), the term "created" applies only to JEHOVAH GOD, for it literally describes HIM bringing something into existence from nothing simply by HIS DIVINE Words or Will (cp. Rev. 4:11). Compare Genesis 1:1:

    "In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth."

    formed; Isa. 45:18 = Translated from the Hebrew verb root "yatsar" (transliterated "yaw-TSAR'"), the term "formed" describes JEHOVAH GOD miraculously, and on a grand scale, shaping and fashioning that which HE previously created out of nothing.
  • Philip Christian Parks on Isaiah 45
    made; Isa. 45:18 = When translated from the Hebrew verb root "asah" (transliterated' "aw-SAW"), the term "made" describes the sequence of GOD first "creating" something out of nothing, and then shaping and fashioning "formed") that "creation" into its beautiful and useful existence. Finally, HE arranges, places, and securely fixes ("established") HIS Creation for HIS and man's availability and use.

    Compare GOD's subsequent actions immediately after HE "created the heaven and the earth" ( Gen. 1:1). Note that "the earth was without form and void" ( Gen. 1:2). GOD's creative finishing touches of "forming" and "establishing" that which HE previously "created" occurs throughout the following verses (vv. 1:2b - 2:3).

    Understand, the act of GOD's "forming" and "establishing" HIS Creation required DIVINE miraculous Words and Will that only JEHOVAH GOD possesses, and that JEHOVAH GOD solely could accomplish.

    established; Isa. 45:18 = When translated from the Hebrew root verb "kuwn" (transliterated "koon"), the term "established" describes GOD setting HIS Creation and HIS fashioning of it into its permanent place and operation.

    Consider GOD's "establishment" of the sun which HE created in the heavens ( Ps. 19:4):

    "In them hath HE set a tabernacle for the sun."

    In addition, consider GOD's "establishment" of the earth ( Job 26:7):

    "HE stretcheth out the north {the vast expanse of the northern heavens} over the empty place {nothing exists for support}, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
  • Marke - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    God does claim power to create calamities, but He does not sin, does not encourage humans to sin, and did not create sin in Adam that subsequently was passed on to every human born into the world.
  • Dav47 - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    if you cause enough trouble God will cause you some problems is what HE is saying; HE didn't create evil but HE can sure give evil people some trouble when they cause evil. GOD is incapable of evil but HE will allow calamity to come about. evil here is Heb. ra= has many uses here in this context is rendered calamity/tumult. GOD naming Cyrus before he was born, 1 of only 7 GOD named; subject here is GOD uses Cyrus for HIS purpose to cause calamity/tumult to subdue nations for HIS purpose as stated in Verse 1
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    Hi Tammy.

    These verses from Isaiah 45, verses 1 to 7, is a discourse to Cyrus, the Persian King, revealing Who this God is, the One who will use the king as His instrument. So verse 7 comes as a further reminder to Cyrus that this God is unlike anyone else: He creates Light & He has the power to remove it (once Light from a source is removed, darkness prevails - it's the default with the absence of light) - in so doing, it can also be read, that darkness was then created.

    He also can bring about peace (or, happiness, prosperity to the individual or the world) & He can choose to remove it (thereby evil will become present & rampant (as a default state), with Satan's influence upon man & the world). Again, as with the removal of light, the removal of peace results in the creation of evil (turmoil, disaster). The Lord doesn't create the evil for evil's sake (He can't do it, He is Holy), but at times, chooses to remove what withholds that peace, thereby allowing evil to be manifested, thus it being created. The Lord has the power to do all things, which the Persian gods could never do.

    We know that in the beginning evil was never in the world. Satan's heart was lifted up against God & evil was born. All the evil around us comes from Satan & not from God. And evil continues to abound as God stays His Hand against its raging tide.
  • ELB - in Reply on Isaiah 45

    God is LOVE; but how do you know what love is, without knowing what hate is?

    God is LIGHT; but how do you know light, is without knowing what darkness is?

    God is LIFE; but how do you know what life, is without knowing what death is?

    God is TRUTH; but how do you know what truth, is without knowing what deception is?

    God is WISDOM; but how do you know what wisdom, is without knowing what ignorance is?

    The tree of KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, are in the same TREE, when we eat the FRUIT we HAVE KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL.

    Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold they have become like ONE OF US (Gods) to KNOW GOOD and EVIL.

    Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods, the children of the most high.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, to be conformed to the image of his Son (God) ....

    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind BE IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Philippians 2:5 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with GOD.

    Isaiah 66:9 Shall I not bring TO BIRTH, and not cause to bring forth? ......

    Isaiah 66:8 ....for as soon a Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (gods: in the AGE TO COME).

    God Bless YOU!
  • Kay - in Reply on Isaiah 45
    I like John Gill's comments on this portion of that verse, Tammy:

    I make peace, and create evil; peace between God and men is made by Christ, who is God over all; spiritual peace of conscience comes from God, through Christ, by the Spirit; eternal glory and happiness is of God, which saints enter into at death; peace among the saints themselves here, and with the men of the world; peace in churches, and in the world, God is the author of, even of all prosperity of every kind, which this word includes: "evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see ( Job 2:10 ) ( Amos 3:6 ) : I the Lord do all these things;

  • Tammy on Isaiah 45
    If God abhors evil and is always against it then why does Isaiah 45:7 state, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." I understand that God does all things at all times but why does it state that He created evil? Isnt that going against God's stance on evil? Thank you for your time and God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Thanks Earl,

    Isaiah 10 is a great, and humbling example.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    S Spencer, the Spirit is blessing you with His great insight. Isaiah 10 is an example also of God using man as the labour of HIS WORK.

    THY WILL BE DONE, come quickly O Lord.

    Our's IN CHRIST your servants, Amen
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Hi Dr Marvin.

    That's a humbling, valuable truth to consider isn't it.

    God used Moses, He used Abraham, and Many others in scripture and Many he is using today,

    But he also used People like Cyrus! ""Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;""

    He used King Nebuchadnezzar.

    To seize Israel.

    And the Chaldeans.

    Habakkuk 1:6. For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
  • Dr MARVIN A MCQUEEN on Isaiah 45:5
    Since God's eyes are in every place; it's a blessing to understand that God is still a mystery, therefore He can do what his Holy Word is! Remember God created all things, therefore He can utilize anyone or any thing, to get His Will done! Be blessed!
  • Kevin Andrew Jernigan on Isaiah 45:3
    I found something sacred and significant..hidden very secretly only for trustworthy people to inherit.
  • Steven Spencer - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Alex you left out a couple of verses. Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
  • Jack Gutknecht - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Interesting, Chris!
  • Alex on Isaiah 45:5
    Alex comments about Exodus 3 v 15 God tells Moses that he is the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob and that is my NAME forever and my memorial to All generations .
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    These verses from verse 1 to 7, is a discourse to Cyrus, the Persian King, revealing Who this God is, Who will use the king as His instrument. So verse 7 comes as a further reminder to Cyrus that this God is unlike anyone else: He creates Light & He has the power to remove it (once Light from a source is removed, darkness prevails - it's the default with light's absence). He can bring about peace (or, happiness, prosperity) & also can remove that (thereby evil will become present & rampant, as a default state, with Satan's affectation upon man & the world). The Lord has the power to do all things, which the Persian gods could never do.

    To be able to correctly understand the 'behaviour' of a Holy God Who can do no evil, for evil is never present within Him, the only way that I can read this verse, is to know that the God Who creates, can also remove (i.e. the opposite is 'created') & not that God has any unjustified evil planned that He wants to create. However, it is true, God does bring on 'evil', as in consigning men to hell, but that comes as a justified punishment for man's disobedience & rejection of Him.
  • Robert Malit - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    Light = good = understanding and knowledge Christians gained from the written word of God

    Darkness = evil = trials, tribulations and all sorts of problems encountered by Christians = use by God to test our faith in God

    If & when Christians chose not to rely on own understanding, seek God's wisdom, able to go through trials/problems, by faith able to solve problems. During the process - made mistakes but learned new things - what works, what doesn't work gained wisdom, leads to success

    Prosperity - successful life on earth while having intimate fellowship with God.

    Disaster - however, if and when Christians because of prideful desires, chose not to seek God's guidance, continue to struggle, makes mistakes after mistakes, discouraged, get addicted into something - bring disaster to self - broken relationships.

    God created all these things for our common good. God loves us, gave us freedom to see the light, darkness, prosperity and disaster to teach us lessons, to purge and cleanse us from our self-centered free will walking in the flesh versus walking in the spirit.
  • M - in Reply on Isaiah 45:5
    I remember reading that the first time and thinking the same thing.

    The first thing I'd say is not to use NIV, instead use KJV. Modern translations are less accurate.

    God created people, and is therefore responsible for His creations. As an example, if someone chooses to do someone else harm for an unholy reason, that person must reap what they've sown. It's up to God to give that person a perfect punishment(assuming they are unrepenting nonbelievers), and in order to do that God must create a situation in which there's a fitting disaster for them. Only then is "balance" restored, and do people get what they deserve.

    Loving doesn't mean God won't uphold morality and justice, but it does mean He is merciful.

    Disaster exists because of sin. God doesn't enjoy causing disaster, but it is necessary.
  • Jack Gutknecht on Isaiah 45:5
    Why would a loving God "create darkness" and "disaster"? ( Isaiah 45:7)

    7 I form the light and create darkness,

    I bring prosperity and create disaster;

    I, the Lord, do all these things. (NIV)
  • Anne - in Reply on Isaiah 45:7
    Heaven on Earth...
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 45:14
    That's a good 'catch', noticing the words, "there is no God" in Isaiah 45:14. In Hebrew, the LORD in the first part of the verse, is 'Yahweh', but in the latter part of the verse, it is "El" & "Elohim", which can used of the true God but allows for use of other gods, angels, kings or judges.

    So in context of the verse, these others (gentiles) that come to Israel will come in brokenness & humility, and acknowledging that "God (El) is the God with Israel, & there is no god (Elohim), there is none else". So it is the cry of the gentiles, though not coming to faith in the true God of Israel, did however acknowledge that there is none beside Him. Since they didn't know the true God as Israel knew God, the word 'El, Elohim' is being used to signify this.
  • Kay on Isaiah 45:14
    I don't recall this verse saying, "...there is no God." I recall it as, "...there is no other God."

    If I am incorrect, can anyone provide interpretation or meaning to that specific part of the verse?
  • Mishael - in Reply on Isaiah 45:7
    The tree of Life was moved to Heaven.

  • Wayne - in Reply on Isaiah 45:7
    12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. evil existed befor adam I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. i couldn't be any clearer
  • Wayne - in Reply on Isaiah 45:7
    and your right and here is proof. Genesis 2:9

    "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 45:12
    The clearest Scripture is in Psalm 33:6-9. Other Scriptures: Hebrews 1:2, 11:3, may help.
  • Roger on Isaiah 45:12
    Where the world's made by the one true God by the hands of God, or spoken into existence.

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