Hebrews Chapter 12 Discussion


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  • Debbie on Hebrews 12:17
    Wasn't Jesus baptized by John the Baptist? If so, would you please give me the Bible verse(s) that explain it?
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12:17
    All the four Gospels give some narrative about Jesus' baptism by John.

    Matthew chapter 3; Mark chapter 1; Luke chapter 3; and John chapter 1.
  • Zybejta M Marashi on Hebrews 12:17
    I was born into a communist country and raised athiest. when I was 23 yrs Old I defected communism! March 21, 1991 immigrated to the USA. Dec 8 got baptized & married in church! That nigh I see God and Jesus in my dream. Since then I kept seeing dreams! I Jesus healing me, John the Baptist, Haven, rapture, one months before the tsunami happened I see it on my dream! During the election 2016 when I voted for Trump because GOD told me to vote for him, and although I voted for Hillary 1st time & 2nd Time Romney! I was democrat for the past 25 yrs! I feel thirsty for knowledge of god but I don't feel going to any church! I really like to know what all this mean?
  • Steven Spencer - in Reply on Hebrews 12:17
    Hi Zybejta, I'm unsure about the dreams, May i ask have you received Christ as your Lord and savior? I do Know he would want that, and Hebrews 10-25 says do not forsake the assembly. and When and if its safe he do want you to find a good bible teaching church and fellowship
  • A friend on Hebrews 12:17
    Give it to God stop seeking answers from anybody else people even with the best intentions can you scripture tell you the wrong answer even when they think it's right only God knows you situation your future plans Etc nobody even comes close to having an understanding like God there's only one unforgivable sin God loves and forgives all of his children Jesus frees you this death and Sacrifice by his blood because of is as Father's Love When You Believe in except this can you love God does it mean to take the easier they almost always get harder especially when you can't forgive yourself let go of your past trust in him let him have control deny own understanding and have faith pray to God about it and that's God take care of it his will be done it's only one unforgivable sin God might want you to start a new life being born again a new plan a new marriage and happiness cetera or he may want to restore what you had or the one you have everything is going to be okay and no matter what I may have decided and does for your life it will be good let go of everything set your eyes on God heaven give it all to him ask forgiveness and repent you can start anew if that's what he wants for you and can be free of all the things that he removes and let's die on the cross with the old you honor all of what you receive to the best of your ability don't expect things to be easy perfect are for you not to have to make a serious effort be grateful and thankful even though you've really been saved by grace and not by works love God with all your heart and soul love others do your best to follow the Commandments even though your free of the law
  • Philip on Hebrews 12:27
    Heb'12:27

    "Yet once more" will I shake not only the earth, but the heaven also signifies a great shaking of peoples secrets, hidden agendas, 'powers of the air' and desires for world DOMINATION ...

    Eph'6:12 " for we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers of the air in high places"

    Ergo see Trump 2020 that exemplifies this

    Rom' 2:13-16 ".......when on that day according to my gospel God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus"

    A great shaking is taking place in America right now!! And not America only!! and the very aftershocks are shaking this PLANET to its very foundations....even to we in 'down under' land

    Mat'10:26 "So have no fear of them, for there is nothing that is covered that will not be revealed...."

    Matthew 13:41

    "the son of man will send out his angels, and they will weed out all causes of sin and corruption and all evil doers"

    The weeding out of corrupt people, hidden systems is hapenning before our very eyes!

    God bless America!
  • Michelle on Hebrews 12:17
    After reading Chapter 12 Hebrews, I'm more deeply convicted of my sin. I've been married for 35 years, 20 years without affection or sexual relations with my Husband. Many unfortunate types of manipulations and abuses, etc. And I stayed cause I wanted to triumph over this, honor my marriage, and God hates divorce. A few years passed, and I sought the Lord more diligently, more time, more prayer etc. The voice of the Holy Spirit was strong, although, my past Pastor didn't trust or believe when I reported a Jezzabel in the church and a witch oppressing prayers at that church.

    Since then, I've sinned grievously and I can't hear the Holy Spirit anymore. The devil know us quite thoroughly, and there was only one person I would have been tempted with. OF course hindsight is 20/20. Good boundaries and no problems with this for my entire marriage. A happenstance of an old friend, we started speaking, and I began a relationship with him emotionally and physically. Now, I love him and want to be with this person. My character was not of someone that would do this, never would have thought I would ever do this. But here I am and sorrowful I've sinned against my Holy Heavenly Father.

    I'm frightened that I may have given my Heavenly Home birthright away, and I'm destined for hell. Father God please No. Esau was sorrowful too. He grieved as I have, and I want to hear the Holy Spirit again. This chapter convicts me more- is there no hope for my salvation now? Is it lost forever? How do I know if I have fallen permanently from the Grace of God? Hell :'(

    This man was divorced, but I am not. I have not had relations with my Husband for many years. Do I divorce my Husband and marry my Friend. (act of my sin, is like marriage)?

    I've prayed to God for help, and have spoken of regret and help to know what to do. The last 6 weeks, my friend & home have scabies and I caught them. :'( Can I make this right by marrying my new love? Are the pests warnings and of what?

    HELP please
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12:17
    Michelle, what a sad story you've shared. Your situation would rank high on a list of the many griefs a person can experience: that of not receiving love in a marriage, rather "manipulations & abuses". You have been despised & rejected & to then find solace, love & understanding in another, is indeed a natural human tendency. But the conviction & despair resulting from your actions has brought you now to this point of sorrow as well as the gnawing sense of the Spirit's absence.

    Your sorrow which must lead to repentance WILL find the Father's forgiveness. 2 Cor 7:10, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". This speaks of the difference between a true sorrow that comes from a heart that belongs to the Lord as opposed to the World's sorrow (here, means 'regret') which avails nothing. You are truly under conviction of your actions & this conviction can only be from the Holy Spirit Who longs to draw you back into cleanliness & harmony with the Lord.

    As much as you now feel the love & companionship that has been missing in your life for so long, the Word of God is clear about entering into a second marriage: 1 Corinthians 7:10-16. Divorce is an extreme permissible act, but re-marriage is not allowed. And that, as you will know, is because the marriage bond is of God & for a reason: Mark 10:7-12. You have been both physically & mentally faithful to your husband for so many years whilst under trying conditions; if at all possible, you need to go back to him & remain faithful in your vows, thereby being God's witness to him that might alert him to his errors. But if you have to leave, then God requires you to remain single. Many Christians in such a situation would prefer to re-marry, but then their position is not for us to judge.

    Scabies needs to be treated quickly & the home decontaminated. Anything that might cause us to become alert to sin is useful, but not necessarily a result of it.
  • Christians Marriage Divorce - in Reply on Hebrews 12:17
    If your current husband is an unbeliever: NOT a Christian; you may be divorced on grounds of: alienation of affection.

    1 Corinthians 7 teaches you and a Christian husband may declare a fast from sexual relations for a time (but not years!).

    Do not commit adultery. Repent of any impure thoughts. Commit yourself to God to settle this issue. We are not constrained by Old Testament laws. Matthew 5, Jesus restates issues of divorce.

    Satan is accusing you in your head. He wants everyone to be clueless and commit sexual sin.

    See a Christian marriage counselor, or your Pastor. It helps in court to show you sought advise. Get your own attorney.

    Commit your path to the Lord. Listen.

    Mishael
  • Christian Persecutions Ramping Up on Hebrews 12
    Stop Turkey From Turning Historic Christian Church Into a Mosque

    This is an attack on the Christian faith.

    Hagia Sophia (named after God's Holy Wisdom) in Istanbul was originally built as a Christian church, about 500 years after Christ walked among us, and has also served at the center of Orthodox Christianity. It's been designated as a U.N. World Heritage Site.

    Now, it's being turned into a Muslim mosque for the second time in its history. Its beautiful Christian mosaics will be covered up or even sandblasted - literally covering up the story of the Gospel. We know what's coming next. Hagia Sophia will become a symbol of Islam conquering Christianity.

    Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have already cheered this. Turkey has already said that Athens, Greece, "is next" and then Al-Aqsa (the Temple Mount) in Jerusalem, Israel.

    Turkey must be given notice that the world will not tolerate the eradication of the Christian faith at the whim of a hostile government. This Christian church must not be erased.

    We've mobilized our legal and Government Affairs teams to fight back. We are preparing to take action at the U.N., urging international pressure on Turkey to protect this historic Christian church. But we need you. ACLJ to sign the petition.
  • BSP on Hebrews 12
    Verse 2-We need to focus on Jesus and imitate him in the way that he endured. He focused on the joy and this helped him to endure. We must do the same in order to endure.
  • Rev Barbara Florence on Hebrews 12
    As Christians we receive either praise or chastisement from our Father God. I have come to appreciate both

    Chastisement helps me keep my feet firmly planted on Holy Ground in Jesus's Presence Praise tells me that Jesus is pleased that I am grounded where He has planted me.
  • Stephende on Hebrews 12
    How is it that Jesus is a mediator twixt humans and God. Say that when he walked with us, he turned many to the Father. I suspect he would not venture again to earth, so full of unrepentitent sinners who create a political movement surrounding him, but dishonor his teaching. Now, for those who understand Revelations, we have the Antichrist, or one who exhibits no qualities of zChrist, but only lies thru his teeth while assuming a position of power over Jesus's flock. For those with ears to hear, let me say that if you fall under his spell then doom awaits you. God will not be mocked. He is a heartknower and will recompense those who turn from the One God in heaven. The hypocrit who has power over you will delight in your ruination. He will pick your flesh from his teeth with your blood dripping from his sarcasic mouth. The hour is near where safety and complacency is over in America. I am not anyone but I read the Word and can tell when he lies. I don't give him cover or pass it off that"Oh everyone lies. Look how powerful he is. He will defend us! No he won't. He is hellbent on destroying. All will have to face the Father to explain yourselves. The choice has become binary in America. With one there is a return to hope and justice. The other there is only corruption and death of the Spirit.
  • Catherine on Hebrews 12:15
    Thanks Christine ; you highlighted the essence of the use of 'bitter' in this context that I have been trying to find i.e any sin , though it seems to satisfy for a moment , always fades & the result is greater desperation to fill that empty space inside AT the expense of anyone & everything . Yes, the grace of God( The Lord Jesus) is what keeps us from going down that path.
  • A New Heaven and a New Earth on Hebrews 12
    Revelation 8

    10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell A GREAT STAR from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

    11 And the name of THE STAR is called WORMWOOD, and the third part of the WATERS became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

    12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    This isn't poetry from the Book of Revelation!! Those of you intent on following False Prophets!! You will not have water to drink.

    NASA already is taking photos and measurements of a star headed straight towards planet EARTH. Lots and lots of photos on Google. Guess what it's named?

    The Wormwood Star. It's not a comet and it's too big to be an asteroid.

    Since God is guiding it, they aren't going to be able to blow it up.

    It's going to make all the water bitter and not good for drinking.

    You're right about the garbage "islands" floating in our oceans now: extending itself towards Alaska currently.

    What does a GOOD and LOVING God do about this mess? He offers His Son Jesus to pay for our Sins and bring us into the family of God. We are about to embark on the greatest Mystery, the salvation of souls, and seeing Earth restored to its original beauty.

    The Godhead made all of this! He will do it again. Throw your unbelief out the window & grab onto Jesus NOW. Don't miss out so great a salvation.

    Mishael
  • Betty Henson on Hebrews 12
    1. What is the very first thing GOD requires of all man to do? Where can I find it in scripture?

    My thoughts is, Exodus 20:3, but a preacher said it is "TO LOVE" all.

    2. Why are we not noticing or focusing on all these Satanic Statues that are being raised right in front of us with little to no protest? I believe Arkansas has an 85' Statue of Satan with 2 little kids happily smiling as they look up to him, sitting right next to the 10 Commandments. These Statues are raised up throughout the world as they are in many States in this country. GOD told us all in the bible he is a jealous GOD, and will tolerate no other GOD before him. I think Satan has always used racism to keep everybody in the world off focused. (Off course racism is extremely important) however, I know GOD is watching us make him 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.. in order off importance, you get the picture. The world needs to STOP, take a look around, because if what people see is all they see, they don't really see all there is to see. Man has always been nasty and wicked towards each other, and GOD deals with these issues. On the other hand we are foolishly ignoring his first Commandment. Thou shall have no other GOD before me, for I am a jealous GOD. We are going to pay an enormous price for what we are allowing to occur. In fact we are presently paying a heavy price. (COVID 19) We must FAST and PRAY nationwide, worldwide with true Godly leaders, to stop what we are overlooking. Please shed thoughts on this as I am upset that this gets no NEWS ATTENTION, when in fact it is the most important and urgent thing happening in the world, YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Deuteronomy 10:12

    "And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God REQUIRE of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,"
  • Janet on Hebrews 12:1
    Who are the great cloud of witness?
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12:1
    Janet, the great cloud of witnesses would be referring to those mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11. As you know, that chapter speaks about the definition of faith & then lists some of the Old Testament folk who were commended for their faith in God in spite of the circumstances they found themselves in. So, the point of the chapter is to show us that God looks for genuine faith in us towards Him. Therefore, the writer is suggesting in Chapter 12, that since these old-timers who were accepted by God because of their faith, they might be watching (witnessing) us to see whether we have that faith that God is pleased with (Hebrews 11:6).
  • Adetula - in Reply on Hebrews 12:1
    Thank you for the clarification. Much appreciated. Looking for messages ahead
  • Praise - in Reply on Hebrews 12:1
    Remeber the fall of Lucifer- The son of the morning.
  • Lost 1 on Hebrews 12
    It seems you were correct as i did not leave everything at the foot of the cross, unconfessed sin, hate for a certain person that i had trusted. I did not want to let go of it and it was eating away, I have repented of it and I do feel better but still struggle with self condemnation, but i found a scripture in 1st John If our heart condemns us God is greater than our heart. Does that mean that the lord knows my heart and even though i condemn myself he still loves me and knows i want to live for him? I really could use some help with this.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Hate is a fire that burns on thoughts of revenge, and mental plots. As long as it has fuel; it burns and burns
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Yes. The past is the past. You hit the reset button. All things goes on as before BUT with a new outlook. And a new nature. This new thing in you is the Holy Spirit, which was not there before. Amen and may God bless you.
  • Lost 1 on Hebrews 12
    Chris

    I know it must seem like I'm looking for reasons not to believe but the truth is I have repented and turn away from my past life even moved away to get away from the people i was hanging out with and to get away from the drugs that took over my life, i study the word daily and truly try to live my life for Christ married a wonderful Christian woman with a wonderful heart for other people and the Lord, and i thank the Lord for her daily, and i will also tell you God has answered prayers 3 times when i've been at the point of giving up i asked a simple prayer, i said Lord if your still here let me help someone today, on 3 different occasions spur of the moment when feeling really down i prayed that and all 3 times i got to help someone the 3rd time 2 people I wasn't looking they all just seemed to pop up, but then i get that feeling from Hebrews chap 10 vs 26-27 and any joy seems to fly out of my life. But i don't quit I stay in the word and repeat 1st John 1 vs 9. It just that feeling that i knowingly sinned and waited to long, and that is what i want other to learn from, stay in Christ no matter what the world offers you nothing can compare to living for him, as i said before the most miserable person in the world is a fallen Christian who can't find his way back, it's that nagging feeling that haunts me. Hopefully i will be able to join the prison ministry at my church the one thing i want to tell them is to accept Christ never take your eyes of him and take his great mercy for granted.
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Page 2.

    Hebrews 10:26,27 is essentially a word of warning to those who apostatize (go back to their Jewish beliefs). It is the same warning that is given to the same people in Hebrews 6:4-6. As you know, Hebrews is a letter to Christians who were mainly those who turned to Christ from Judaism. And there was always a tendency for some of them to revert to Jewish Laws, Practices & Sacrifices, or at least try to syncretize them to Christianity. If they did this, then they did despite to Christ's death & His shed Blood was worthless. This is the sin that the Hebrews writer is referring to (as in Hebrews 6 also) & this warning was also given strongly by Paul as he being an ex-Jew (Pharisee) was well aware of what this fusing of the two would mean. (Galatians 4:9). And this meaning is further qualified in Hebrews 10:29, speaking of "treading under foot the Son of God" & despising the blood of the Covenant.

    So, when you see the reference to sin or falling away in Hebrews 10 & Hebrews 6, it clearly doesn't refer to the sins that we may commit & seek forgiveness for, but for horrible sins of Christ rejection (i.e. by fusing the Old Covenant with the New) & for blasphemy (i.e. attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan). And I sincerely don't believe that you have fallen into this type of sin that was being done by some.

    And that should be a wonderful ministry amongst prisoners, but you need to be confident in your own salvation & in the Word of God before sharing with those who are prisoners both physically & spiritually. Often they will need just a listening ear & open heart to their plight, but you also have a great message to share with them that will bring them out of their chains of darkness into Christ's glorious Light. And I pray that you will be strengthened in your mind & spirit as you stand for Christ & against Satan.
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Page 1.

    Thanks for those comments & your great testimony. Certainly, your love for the Lord & to be used by Him is paramount in your life & that you have been blessed with a wonderful gift from the Lord, in your wife, all show that you are in a place of God's Delight & Blessing. I didn't see your first comments as that of "reasons not to believe", but from one who was/is struggling with 'feeling' the presence & joy of the Lord which could cause you to wonder about your position in God's family.

    I did endeavour to show you that the fact of our salvation (which is Christ-generated & Christ-based) is more worthy an indicator of our blessed state, than what we 'feel' in our daily Christian walk. If I had to look purely at my 'feelings', I would often see my unworthiness, my filthiness & being a candidate for rejection, if I had to account for every sin & misdemeanour in my life. That is why the blessed Spirit of God is given to us: not only for instruction & comfort, but to immediately show us our sin/grey areas in our lives so that we can do something about it. Often I find that those who have a 'feeling' of being lost or unworthy, are those who are either judging themselves too critically or entertaining sin in their lives. We are told to judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 1:31,32) but it's always in the light of revelation, whether from the Word or by the Spirit. And if there is known sin, then we need to confess, repent & turn away from it.

    I did mention too earlier, about the need to correctly understand Scripture, & I fear that you are looking at passages such as Hebrews 10:26,27 & Hebrews 6:4-6 at 'face value' rather than the actual intent by the writer. So, if I could shed some light that may allay your fears. (onto Page 2.)
  • Lost 1 on Hebrews 12
    This book of the bible scares me so much, I have read the New Testament many times over and i cannot find any example of a Christian leaving or turning away and being able to come back to Christ i can't find peace or forgiveness anywhere. The minute i wake up in the morning my mind starts telling i have no forgiveness it seems like every sin i have ever committed runs through my head laughing at me. I have repented and turned away from that like but it seems like it has been to long and there is a wall i can't get through, i know about the prodigal son but that was a parable. It seems like i am living for Christ as an example to others but inside i feel like hell is my final destination, living like this is torture the most unhappy person in the world is a person who can't find Jesus anymore and knows the truth, it says in James the prayer of a righteous man avails much, please whoever reads this and you are a Christian pray for me. Hebrews chap 6:4-6 and chap 12; 16-17 read to me and others because i have read lots about this, that we have no hope
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Page 3.

    You quoted Heb chaps 6 & 12, so to clarify only these portions to you. Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks of those who turn their backs to God having appeared to be Christians in their midst. They showed all the signs of spirituality, joined in fellowship, received the Word, but ultimately refused God & turned their backs to Him. To these, the Writer says, that Christ can't be crucified a second time (i.e. Christ's death can't be made a mockery every time one chooses to repent for salvation) & they will find no place for repentance. BUT the writer goes on to say in verse 9: "BUT beloved, we are persuaded better things of you", inferring that those who were genuine believers in that Fellowship, wouldn't go the way of those who turn their backs to God & whose (genuine) salvation was clear & secure. So, are you in this position? From reading your comment, I see you yearning for assurance of your salvation, not as these folk in vv 4-6 who were willing to give God away for their own ends.

    Hebrews 12:16,17: this speaks of Esau's rejection & cannot apply to you or me, as any sincere repentance for his foolish act was useless because he could never retrieve the blessing already given to Jacob by Isaac. It was a physical matter that changed the course of history. We have all foolishly refused Christ at some point, but unlike Esau's situation of rejection, we have a longing, waiting God Who wants to secure our cleansing, our new relationship with the Godhead & give us a hope & a future that can never be taken away: John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me; and him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE cast out".

    So, it is so important for you to be assured & confident in the gift of salvation given in spite of how you may feel. To continue to assure our hearts & to oppose what Satan wants to do & take away our joy, we must continue to study the Word, rightly dividing it, & focussing on the specific words that give us the assurance of His Love & our faith."(Hebrews 3:14).
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 12
    Page 2.

    Secondly, in understanding the Scriptures. You said: "The minute I wake up in the morning my mind starts telling I have no forgiveness it seems like every sin I have ever committed runs through my head laughing at me." If a person hasn't left his sins that he has repented of at the foot of the Cross for Jesus to deal with, then either he has not truly repented or he is listening to Satan who wants to afflict him with past sins to make them the present burdens. Doesn't Jesus say to come to Him with our heavy loads & He WILL give you rest? (Matthew 11:28-30). Of course, Jesus was primarily referring to the heavy loads imposed by the Jewish leaders, but it surely applies to the loads & cares we carry now that we can confidently put on Him & leave it there. Look at the many Scriptures that affirm that God will DO something: even John 3:16, 'if we believe on Him we SHALL NOT perish but HAVE eternal life'. Are you abiding in Christ? You say you are ("I'm living for Christ but you don't feel like that inside") but re-read 2 Tim 2:11-13 & take note of the affirmations: "we SHALL also live; we SHALL also reign; Jesus REMAINS faithful". There are so, so many Scriptures that give us complete confidence in Jesus' Work for us, His accepting us on the basis of our faith & will never deny or reject us. So, our joy is in what Christ has done for us & not how our feelings may sway us from time to time. (onto Page 3.)


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