Genesis Chapter 32 Discussion



 
  • GiGi again on Genesis 32
    ....He is in need of God's help. In this instance, instead of God initiating the interaction by appearing to him and speaking to him first, Jacob calls on God in prayer for help in facing a perceived adversary. He has realized the he does not need to wait on God to show up, but he can go straight to God and get a response. This is a challenge of his faith, "will God answer my prayer?"

    I noticed that Jacob was willing to stay all night in camp seeking God's help even though his family has gone ahead. So by morning, his family is 8+ hours ahead of him. And, as a result of the wrestling match, he has a limp from where God touched his thigh. He will be walking more slowly for the rest of his life. He will be constantly reminded of the night of wrestling with God. He will always know that God is stronger than him. He will also know that God is with him adn only a prayer away.
  • David - in Reply on Genesis 32
    Gigi I don't see how Going to God in prayer would be challenging or a test of faith, prayer in its common denominator is asking God to do something i.e. help, just like a human child going to there father. It says in hebrews for us to boldly come to the throne of grace to find help in time of need.
  • GiGi again - in Reply on Genesis 32
    David,

    I was intending that I don't think that Jacob was used to going to God in prayer before he left for Haran. that is why he made a conditional vow to God..."If God will...then I will..."

    At this time, before he was to meet Esau, he had grown some in his relationship with God, but this night was pivotal in him coming to the realization and belief that he could really trust God and also go to him first and not just wait for Him to show up, as He had in past events. It was after this night that Jacob began referring to God as the God of Israel. Before he referred to God as the God of Abraham or the God (Fear) of Isaac, but his own personal God.
  • GiGi on Genesis 32
    Jacob has been traveling south along the east side of the Jordan river. As he approaches the land of Seir (Edom) where Esau lives, Jacob considers what may become of meeting up with Esau after all of these 20 years. Although Jacob holds no animosity towards Esau, he figures Esau is probably still angry with him, perhaps remembering how Esau was when they grew up together for 40 years. Jacob's group was very large. He wanted to make sure that Esau knew that they are a peaceful group, not hostile or warriors. He also wanted Esau to know who he was. This gives time for both of them to prepare for a meeting. Jacob is anticipating problems, so he sends droves of livestock ahead with servants to give to Esau as a gift, hoping to soften Esau's demeaner toward Jacob and his family. That final night, after the livestock are on their way, he send his wives and children.

    I have always wondered why he sent family ahead of him. Did he think Esau would see his family members and feel family affection? Did he send them away so he could be alone with God in prayer? The night Jacob wrestles with a strong man all night. Perhaps this can be likened to persevering in prayer until one gets an answer. I wonder at what point Jacob realized he was wrestling with God and not a human adversary? By the morning neither had prevailed over the other. Jacob would not stop wresting God until God blessed him. God did, changing his name from Jacob to Israel which does indicate a change in character for him. Now he would be a prince among men. At the end of the encounter, he asks God to tell him His name and God does not grant His request. I wonder why? Maybe Israel was not yet ready to know God by Name yet.

    It is interesting that when he prayed to God before this event that Jacob admits his need for God's help an that any blessing he has received is undeserved and he is unworthy of being so blessed. He is humbled and finally realizing he is not the force or strength behind his successes.
  • Bernard Collins jr on Genesis 32
    I love the lord jesus and live under GOD DESIER plan of life on this earth to the everlasting life through jesus the savelir
  • Tony on Genesis 32:30
    Gen 32:30, please elaborate the best possible meaning. Face to face could be another word for meeting, not a literal meaning that Jacob actually saw God's face. Right? If he saw God's face then it contradicts other scriptures that says no man sees God otherwise will surely die.
  • What Jacob means to the whole World - in Reply on Genesis 32:30
    I was taught that Jacobs name had the meaning of deceiver attached to it, over the birthright issue with his brother.

    Jacob wrestled with the angel of the Lord.

    This is the incident where Jacobs name was changed to ISRAEL. He was the forefather of modern day Israel. The Covenant of blessing and THE LAND (deed), passed upon all descendants of Abrahams descendants born to ABRAHAM and HIS wife, SARAH.

    Ishmael who was born to Abraham and Hagar, was blessed separately by God and given power and wealth, even to Present day, Palestinian nations and people's. This is all recorded in Genesis 16:11, 17:20, 21:18.

    In these end of days, there is argument over the land of Israel still. No matter how the politicians try to separate Israel from the land; the covenant God initiated, will stand.

    Israel is only about 7 1/2 miles wide, yet the entire world covets the Land God gave to Israel by a Covenant with Abraham. As I was taught, Ishmael was born through the permissive Will of God. He allowed it, but His Covenant was enacted with Abraham and his wife, Sarah. The children born to Israel are their mothers religion.

    Hagar moved away and provided Ishmael an Egyptian wife. Princes, kingdoms and wealth was given to Ishmael and his descendants. Modern day Palestinians. The whole world will suffer and witness this 6000 yr old struggle for the land of Israel.

    Modern day: every super power on earth will attempt to force Israel to give up their land "for peace", which is a lie of the devil.

    If we had desired peace in the United States, why then did we vote "party", instead of protecting the fragile peace in Jerusalem? Vote With Gods known will? Satan will blind their minds.

    Those who bless Israel will be blessed by God.

    Get ready because we're all going to have to suffer for our acts. Try hard to understand covenants and the prophesies at work here? Don't be an ostrich (book of Job).

    Mishael
  • Daivd on Genesis 32
    looking for thoughts on the angel that wrestled with jacob
  • SkipVought - in Reply on Genesis 32
    I believe that this is a physical manifestation of the pre-incarnate Messiah, who Christians refer to as the Second Person of the One Eternal God; one revelation, if you wish, of a multitude in The Old Testament that reveal the Three Persons of The Godhead.

    Take this one from Zechariah: there are TWO Persons of the Godhead; God The Father [GTF] and God The Son [GTS]

    And the angel of the LORD [GTS] protested unto Joshua, saying, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts [GTF]; 'If thou wilt walk in my [GTF] ways, and if thou wilt keep my [GTF] charge, then thou shalt also judge my [GTF] house, and shalt also keep my [GTF] courts, and I [GTF] will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I [GTF] will bring forth my servant the BRANCH [GTS]. For behold the stone that I [GTF] have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I [GTF] will engrave the graving thereof,' saith the LORD of hosts [GTF], 'and I [GTF] will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day,' saith the LORD of hosts [GTF], 'shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.'" Zec 3:6-10 (KJV)

    Here's a passage that has all Three of The Godhead:

    "Come ye near unto me [GTS], hear ye this; I [GTS] have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I [GTS]: and now the Lord GOD [GTF], and his Spirit [HS], hath sent me [GTS]." Isa 48:16 (KJVA)

    Start at verse 3 and follow who is speaking. The speaker in verse 12 says "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." That's about as clear a statement of who the speaker is, The Son of God.

    "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Joh 1:18 (KJV)

    Bottom line: many evidences in the OT of the pre-incarnate Christ and Jacob met Him, in all likelihood.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Genesis 32
    David, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    The angel of the Lord of the old testament is the same as Jehovah of the old testament and is the same that came in the flesh that we know as Jesus Christ and is now back in the glorified body he has had since he was begotten of the Father. The angel of the Lord is a man in a glorified body, Jehovah is a man in a glorified body. Jehovah set aside his glorified body and took upon himself a body like sinful flesh and was manifest as the man Jesus Christ who died for us to reconcile his brothers and sisters to the Father. Then at his resurrection took back the glorified body he laid down for us. Let's look at some of the scriptures that shed light on this. All angels have glorified bodies like their archangel the angel of the Lord.

    Exodus 3:2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him (Moses) in a flame of fire......

    Exodus 3:14 And God (Jehovah) said unto Moses (as the angel of the Lord out of the burning bush)I AM that I AM.....

    John 8:58 .... before Abraham was, I AM.

    Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared unto him (Abraham).....

    Genesis 18:2 And he (Abraham) lift up his eyes and looked, and lo, THREE MEN stood by him...

    Genesis 18:22 And the (two) men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord (Jehovah, the third man).

    Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man.....

    Hosea 12:4 Yet he (Jacob) had power over the angel......

    Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entered angels unawares.

    Psalm 103:20 Bless ye the Lord, ye HIS ANGELS....

    Meditate upon the implications this last verse implies.

    There are many more scriptures that parallel the angel, Jehovah and Jesus Christ, but not enough space in 2000 words to write them all.

    Ask for the Spirits wisdom and understanding and YE SHALL RECEIVE.
  • Esther on Genesis 32
    Food for thought. Why did the man that wrestled with Jacob touch Jacob's thigh and put it out of place? Why not Jacob's arm? Touching the thigh was a significant sign. It was for blessings. It was an oath. It was their promised word. Do you see where I am going with this? This was a spiritual encounter with a blessing to follow. We name our children what we think is a pretty name. Names in the Bible were important. We should choose wisely when naming our children.
  • Esther on Genesis 32
    If you believe there is no Trinity, read where God tells us that his son sits on the right side of his throne and the earth is his (Jesus') footstool. You must by faith except his birth, life, burial and resurrection. When we become Christians (real born again), we are told that we are dead in Christ. I think we are to follow Christ as our example for living and dying. May all who reads this be born-again. God bless each.
  • Alex on Genesis 32:8
    Comments by Alex about Jesus telling Nic. he had to be bornagain by water and spirit which are the same,The water Jesus is refering to is his WORD as Peter said being bornagain of an incorruptible Seed even by the Word of God, that liveth and abideth for ever. LIVING WATER. As John said when Jesus spoke of the water he was refering to the spirit for the H.G WAS NOT YET GIVEN b/c Jesus was not yet glorified so the water JESUS was speaking of was the H.G.LIVING WATER. Even Paul said the CHURCH had to be washed by the WATER of the WORD. When Jesus used the word water it was Spirit the H.G. ( HIS WORD ) Jesus was not refering to H20 .Jesus was simply impling we must be bornagain by a seed even by the WORD of God. Even in the natural a birth has to be initiated by an intimacy and a seed has to be sown but now that GOOD SEED is sown in our hearts initiating a birth of Christ in US. WHEN Jesus said ye must be bornagain by the water and the spirit thats only 1 baptism of the H.G. THAT LIVING WATER OF HIS WORD. When Jesus said if any man thirst let him come unto me and drink, John said he was refering to the SPIRIT not h20. Faith comes by hearing his WORD which initiates a birth,thats y the bible says that FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen,In the natural a woman has the substance of things hoped the evidence of things not seen when she is expecting . But our new birth is in the spirit as that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT. And only JESUS CAN SOW THAT GOOD SEED IN OUR HEARTS AMEN GBU
  • Cher on Genesis 32:8
    Just like the lost sheep, always trying to make up excuses to do things their way instead of God's way! Tatoos are nasty looking carvings! Look to the old days as why they did them!!!
  • Old Days versus These Troubling Days - in Reply on Genesis 32:8
    When I was young, we Painted each other with washable paint,

    Sang " all you need is love", by the Beatles and played frisbee.

    Then everyone went swimming. It was fun.

    Nowadays people burn stuff, shoot at the cops...wind up in the hospital with the virus.

    Jesus could come back tonight when the rioters are in the street; AND they will not be caught up in the clouds with Jesus; no matter how many times they've gotten "saved".

    They will be Left Behind with an Antichrist who will have them gunned down on the spot. He hates everybody and demonstrates it every single day. He will hang decapitated heads on college gates to discourage rioting.

    Everybody Google the riots at Kent State College, in the 1960's, by the students. They were not using rubber bullets.
  • Ann Jirjis on Genesis 32:8
    Indeed I think that Jacob is a nasty man; all other characters; esua, laban are more decent than he is; except for Rachel the thief ..she is one of hell of a daughter ...she matches Jacob .. in being nasty.....
  • Mishael - in Reply on Genesis 32:8
    You should read the Commentary on all those verses.; it'll shed some more light.

    God hated Esau for selling his birthright for a bowl of stew. It's the only verse in the Bible that says "God hated."

    Then Esau wanted it back, and chased Jacob all over & around to get it back. What Rachel started and Jacob went along with, was not condemned by God. The birthright meant NOTHING to Esau. He just wanted the blessing. He didn't repent and ask God to forgive him. He was bitter.

    If you follow Esaus' life, you'll see he was rejected by God.
  • Danny on Genesis 32
    New Testament saying ofGOD GOD is not the author of confusion but peace meaning true easily words to be understood
  • Danny on Genesis 32
    Mark10:18 and John 13:13 Jesus confusion and proof of it but I'm certainly not confused about it he also tries to tell you about a Good Samaritan though mark 10:18 he says something different even about His own self
  • Danny on Genesis 32
    Care to learn true holiness hearken here Isa9:5 Dan 9:7 let me and GOD set you free !!!!!!! From their confusion and Jesus's Mark 10:18 and John 13:13 he says none is good (lies) proof Gen 6:9 . Job 1:1.6.8.12 also note Job1:6 sons of GOD
  • Wayne on Genesis 32
    Is cremation mentioned in the Bible ?
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 32
    Wayne, 1 Samuel 31 speaks of the deadly arrow strike that King Saul encountered & his command to his armour-bearer to end his life with a sword. The armour-bearer also then fell on his sword probably for what he had done to the king & also to the horror that may come to him by the approaching Philistines. When the enemy came upon the dead bodies, they beheaded Saul, & the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead came to retrieve his body & the others, took them back to Jabesh and burned (cremated) them there. However, this is the only clear instance of this happening. Usually, cremation was practised by the heathen & certainly uncommon among Israel. In Deut 21:23, the burying of the dead is seen & is common practice. For Christians today, cremation remains an option based on personal belief & high costs of burial, but for those who strongly believe in burial (& I support this), it is wise to put funds aside to meet that future need.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Genesis 32
    There's a scripture somewhere that says the seas or oceans will give up their dead and I'm sure anyone who was burned up by disaster or cremation will be taken up too. I'll try to find it. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust (said at funerals). All Christians dead or alive will be raptured :)
  • BabzO39Matic - in Reply on Genesis 32
    It is, most certainly, my humble opinion concerning Burial and the methodology of what might refer to, respectfully "dealing with the remains." I assure everyone with a single most and paramount answer; Our God, Father Almighty is Sovereign and therefore ALL those who've died in Jesus will be Resurrected. We're already aware that, "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord," ( 2 Cor. 5:8). A body, alive, is but a vessel of Neutrons, Protons, and Electrons, manipulated by God Almighty within the Womb (It is above my Paygrade to comprehend this, molding of Atoms, prior to conception!). And the possibility, not answered can be that upon our death, the vessel/shell, I believe to be a disposable unit, is left and those Atoms are what is delivered to in the presence of The Father? So, my answer is that the "disposal of remains" does not matter as the Torah does not give guidance towards this finality? In most cases, man-made ceremonies and adornments are what we know today.
  • Mishael on Science - in Reply on Genesis 32
    That's some weighty thought there.

    We're a 3 part being: spirit, soul, flesh.

    "Behold, ALL SOULS ARE MINE; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

    When we die, the flesh returns to the dust that it came from. The whole earth is dust.

    God owns the soul. They were paid for by Jesus's blood sacrifice.

    IF the individual received Christ as their Lord and Savior, the spirit is made alive unto God; and returns to God in heaven upon death; to await the moment of Jesus Rapture (Caught Up), in the clouds.

    The believer is transformed into the eternal body which does not decay. Spirit, soul, transformed body.

    I'm not sure why there needs to be a scientific explanation of molecules, atoms and matter?

    God has already set forth what happens and when. Pouring over books just causes weariness of the mind.

    We're supposed to be filling our spiritual lamps to the top with the oil of The Holy Spirit, and be watching for Jesus coming in the clouds. The oil of gladness?

    We're too close to be getting engrossed in weighty theories that busy our mind with anything other than what we're supposed to be doing. No offense intended.

    God could use someone Full of zeal and fire to pray and intercede for scientists of all kinds to come into the Kingdom NOW. It seems boring huh? Mighty angels respond to those prayers.

    Being a Christian is the Best! We just can't be Christians full of pride and self-achievement. Gotta get on God's team :D

    May the Lord bless you.
  • Traci Prater on Genesis 32:22
    I understand the wrestling in prayer, but even after his hip was out & Jacob still not leaving well enough alone, why did he persists in demanding a blessing?
  • Smitty on Genesis 32
    The Angel that wrestled with Jacob was the Second in the Trinity. The one who would become God in the flesh. Jesus.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 32
    Smitty, the Scripture is unclear who this 'man' was, who wrestled with Jacob. You will need to make your own judgement as you pray for clarity. What we do know, it wasn't just a man, as he renamed Jacob to Israel = "as a prince hast thou power with God & with men, & hast prevailed". And this man refused to give Jacob his name, as well. And Jacob called that area, Peniel = "I have seen God face to face & my life is preserved". So if it was an Angel of the LORD, it could have been Michael. If it was God's Word, then we have another view of the pre-incarnate Christ (a Christophany). See these other references of such manifestations: Gen 18:1 ff; Gen 19:1; Dan 3:19-26. So, many believe that Jesus, the Word of God, was manifested in these pre-incarnate appearances, or it might have been an Angel of the LORD. Whoever it was, the Words spoken were from God & the Work done was an act of God. However, I do believe in the Trinity, i.e. Col 2:9, Godhead = 3 persons that shows God's Fulness.
  • Sharron - in Reply on Genesis 32
    Sorry to pop you theological bubble. There is not a trinity. HERE OH ISREAL THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. GOD creator became flesh, the flesh was, given a name above every name, JESUS, was crucified rose again, assessed into heaven and sent HIS SPIRIT back for us to receive on the day of Pentecost. And they were gathered together tarrying and HIS SPIRIT (GOD HIMSELF) fell and they spoke in tongues they did not know, but individuals heard their tongue being spoken. Peter stood up and used the keys given him in the 38th verse of the 2 chapter of the book of Acts. This was GOD giving man POWER OF HIS SPIRIT. HIS HOLY SPIRIT. There is only ONE GOD, not three persons , for in JESUS DWELLETH THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY. SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES AND PRAY.


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