Genesis Chapter 15 Discussion

  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 15
    The mentioning of the Amorites was a people referred to in verse 16, and they were representative of the other peoples in Canaan. And those others are mentioned in verses 19 to 21. The Egyptians were not in this part of the world, but all these other groups were given over to idolatry & were under God's Judgement.
  • Baker - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Who are the other heathen around them that they represent ? Egyptians
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 15
    In Genesis chapter 15, we read about God speaking with Abram, that the day would come when Abram, who was childless at that time, would have a great progeny that would be without number. Then God speaks to Abram about the coming servitude of Israel to the Egyptians (vv13,14). But after four hundred years (or, the fourth generation: v16), they will finally be set free & enter into the land that God had promised them.

    And the reason given is in verse 16, "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." The land of Canaan was at that time filled with many people groups, such as the Amorites, Canaanites, Jebusites, etc.(vv19-21) & they were all wicked & idol worshippers. So, it was the Judgement of God that was to fall upon them for their wickedness, and it would be the Israelites that would be the instrument that God would use to wipe them out & that Israel would possess that land which God has promised them. The iniquity (wickedness) of the Amorites (probably, a people representative of the other heathen around them), had not fully matured, but when it happened, the Anger of the LORD would be poured out upon them. As a side note, the Israelites did not completely wipe out the idolators, and so in this they disobeyed God & also suffered for it by having those customs & practises permeate into Israel's life & worship.
  • Apm9591kh on Genesis 15
    What is the iniquity of the Amorites?
  • Richard H Priday - in Reply on Genesis 15
    If I understand you correctly your son and daughter are both living gay lifestyles. I will keep them in prayer. I did want to state that a pastor of mine; now in his 90s named Ken Smith spent 2 years counseling Rosanna Butterfield who used to be a lesbian professer in Syracuse. She came out of that due to the pastor and his wife patiently showing agape love; and wrote a book called confessions of an unlikely convert or something to that effect. She was interviewed by another rather famous ex-gay named Becket Cook found on you tube. Not only this; but I have a friend who used to live that way but since the 1990s has been born again as well. So it is not hopeless; there are many testimonies on You Tube as well from individuals that used to have these lifestyles. Along with many who used to be involved with New Age that have been transformed.

    On top of all this; I have a friend whose daughter also was in that kind of relationship but broke it off; and he has seen his mother and another daughter come to Christ recently; after much weeping and prayer. I would venture to say that if the Rapture is near; many will come to faith in the Tribulation as well. That shock treatment may be where the vast majority of converts will come from from this millennial generation; unless He tarries much longer than seems plausible at this point.

    I can think of others too that I know who are living this way; including a former pastor's sister. She survived a near death accident but apparently still is living this way; along with other issues. I also knew a high school student in the 1990s who used to be a talented honor student and musician in church and decided to succumb to those desires by her college years. That saddened me greatly.

    Anyway; if you are physically able; I hope you will seek fellowship. All those outside Christ will suffer the same fate if unregenerate. All those who are His sheep will hear His voice; eventually.

    Agape; Rich P
  • Richard - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Thank you for your input. I did eventually find some older Hebrew writing that does call out for Abraham being in Egypt three month. So this does work out with what you were stating. I just felt that this was not enough time for Abraham to gain such wealth but I will assume that Pharoah gave him all these gifts when he took Sarah and shortly thereafter Pharaoh was plagued thus this would be more than enough time. Thanks again.
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Genesis 15
    I meant to say: "The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Ishmael at 13". I accidentally wrote Issac when I meant to write Ishmael.
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Genesis 15
    So, here is my effort to do the calculation of the span of time Abram may have been in Egypt. I will start using the widest span of time allowed while Abram's ages could be given as 75 and 86.

    If Abram left Haran on his 75th birthday he would have been 75.0 years old. If Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram on the day before his 87th birthday he would have been 86.997 years old. This allows a maximum of 11.997 years (just under 12 years) between events.

    Subtracting Hagar's pregnancy removes 0.75 years of that time and I will assume she became pregnant the same day that she was given to Abram as a wife leaving 11.247 years.

    If the day Abram left Egypt and the day Saria gave Hagar to Abram occurred on the same day of the year 10 years apart that would remove 10.0 years leaving 1.247 years.

    The 1.257 years has to accommodate the amount of time Abram spent traveling from Haran to Canaan and the time he sojourned in Canaan before he decided the famine was too severe and entered Egpyt. I have no way of knowing how long that took, but I'll say a little over 3 months (0.257 years). That leaves 1.0 years or a full year for Abraham to be in Egpyt.

    Of course these assumptions all maximize the time Abram would have spent in Egypt and I don't think Abram spent a full year lying about Saria being his sister and allowing her to become part of pharoah's harem before God made the plagues on Pharoahs house and Abram had to leave. If those events were actually completed in 3 months (0.25 years) then the total span of time between when Abram is said to be 75 and 86 can contract by 0.75 months to be a total span of 11.247 years. If that is the case, the day Abram left Haran does not have to be his 75th birthday and the day Hagar bore him Ishmael does not have to be the day before he turned 87.

    The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Issac at 13 and Issac's birth to Abraham at 100 could refine my answer but Genesis 16 seems to allow 3 mo. min to 1 yr max for Abram's time in Egypt.
  • RichFairhurst - in Reply on Genesis 15
    First of all your question applies to Genesis 16:1:16, not Genesis 15 where you posted your question. First I will cite the verses that provide the relevant time spans separating the events in question.

    Genesis 12:4-5

    4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

    5. And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

    Genesis 12:10

    And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

    Genesis 13:1

    And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.

    Genesis 16:3

    And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

    Genesis 16:16

    And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

    Note that none if these events list the month or day of the year that any of these events happened and some of the events listed have no specific time reference at all. In these texts God has reserved these details as hidden things that He alone knows with certainty. He has only chosen to reveal enough information for us to apply logic to verify that these events in His words are possible, if not probable, based on what we commonly know about the span of time a person is a certain age (any day beginning on their birthday that falls within a 1 year span) and the length of time a normal pregnancy lasts (9 months, not 1 year as you have stated).

    I don't have space to work out the details for you and there are later events and ages given for Abraham later that refine what you work out. However, calculating fractions is hard using rounded numbers
  • Richard on Genesis 15
    I have a problem that I am certain has an easy answer. How long did Abraham spend in Egypt since Sarah gave Hagar 10 years after they came back to Canaan. Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86 minus one year of being with child and then 10 years in Canaan. Abraham left Haran when he was 75, thus 75 from (86-1-10=75) leaving no time for Abraham and Sarah to live in Egypt.
  • Jcbu undercover on Genesis 15
    The people that were close to God talked to God.Giving spiritual sacrifices as Abraham believed God for children and it was counted to him for righteousness.God say's go Abraham went.God say's stay Abraham stayed.Talk to God he loves you ,and want's the best for you.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 15
    That is lovely, sister. Keep writing - for the Glory of God & blessing of the saints.
  • GiGi - in Reply on Genesis 15
    yes, yes, yes!
  • GiGi - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Thanks Chris,

    here is the second stanza, and I did put it to music although i am not a musician, more of a poet or lyricist.

    Oh, to see you in Your Glory;

    and behold Your majesty;

    Oh, to be captured by Your beauty

    In Your holiness and power

    I'll have to find my folder that has my lyrics in it. It is in the shed in a box. haven't written any songs for some time.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Yes indeed GiGi, the LORD God is & can only be Spirit in both His Essence & Form. And through His Being, He is able to send out His Spirit to accomplish His purposes & also His Word to embody it in whatever Form He wishes. For our sakes, His Word became flesh & dwelt among us.

    We are generally told that Jesus came down from Heaven for the sake of suffering & death, taking on humanity. I think this is spoken of in such manner as the deeper theological aspect of it is being 'spared' us; i.e. it's easier to say & comprehend that Jesus came down instead of God's Word changed in composition for the sake of sinners. I liken this to asking Jesus into one's heart when invited to repent & believe. Theologically speaking, we are repenting, believing, being born again, with the Holy Spirit (Christ's Spirit) coming to indwell us. Yes, Jesus does come in, but does so by His Spirit - and I support this by the fact that Jesus, as God in the flesh, is ascended & seated at His Father's right Hand ( Colossians 3:1 & others). At least that's the only way I can understand & apply the Scriptures that speak of this matter.

    And that's a wonderful stanza of your song - very pointed - very apt. Did you put those words into music? I can almost hear it being sung in Heaven with music written from above.
  • GiGi - in Reply on Genesis 15
    I have been taught that the Father is completely Spirit and cannot be seen by beings he created. But I was taught that Jesus had a form before His incarnation and the Father resides in Him, as Jesus stated this in John 14:7, 9-11. Even though the Father is completely Spirit, it does not mean that He is not personal. But we experience Him through Jesus Christ. The Spirit is also obviously completely Spirit. He is able to reside in us, therefore bringing Jesus and the Father to also reside in each believer. It is such a mystery.

    Many years ago I wrote a song and the first stanza said,

    Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'

    Three in One; yet One in Three;

    Holy God, the One the Only;

    Oh, to grasp Your Mystery!
  • Prasanth Konde - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Dear Chris,

    holysprit reval this answer through you brother ,God bless you
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Hello Prasanth. In Genesis 15:1, Abram received a vision from God & in it God spoke to Him. As declared to us in the Bible, the Essence of God's Being revealed to us is His Word & His Spirit: not three gods, but One God manifested in the fulness of His Being. So when God speaks, as here, & many other places in the Bible, He is sending out His Word to inform or alert man.

    But when God planned at a specific time that One should lay down His Life for the sins of mankind, instead of giving another animal for sacrifice or creating another man for this purpose, God sent forth His Word (from within Himself), clothed it with flesh, so that the Word of God could now be seen & heard by His people ( John 1:1-14; Hebrews 1:1-6) & ultimately lay down His Life for us all ( John 10:14-18; 1 John 3:16). So the Word of God came into the world formed as a human babe & was called the Son of God ( Luke 1:35).
  • Prasanth Konde on Genesis 15
    Dear Sir,

    My question is one thing Gensis 5:1 refers word of God came to Abram, who is word of God , Is word of God is father ,son or holyspirit
  • GiGi on Genesis 15:5
    Pray for the Israelite people all over our world and in Israel. Pray that many will come to believe in Jesus like so many did in the time of the apostles. Pray that they will be freed from wrong beliefs by exposure to the truth of the Word of God.

    This passage says all nations will be blessed through the heirs of Abraham. Therefore, we have been blessed, especially by Jesus. We should wish to bless the Israelites wherever they are. God said in this passage He will bless those who bless these people.

    God knows who are His in this world, whether Christians or Israelites saves by grace. He will fulfill his Word, promises, and plan for the ages. Praise be to the God of all!
  • GiGi on Genesis 15:5
    Back to the chapter, The other thing that stood out to me in this chapter was that God had put Abraham into a deep sleep and then told him about the 400 years of slavery his descendants would spend in Egypt. I wonder, was Abraham able to hear this or was the prophecy implanted in his being somehow? Did God do this in this way in order to speak the prophecy but not disturb Abraham in this time of giving promises and making a covenant? Perhaps God gave this prophecy ( and willed it to occur) because of the wickedness of the Canaanites (that was not yet full) may have drawn the Israelites away from God more than the influence of Egypt for these 400 years.

    Some people have commented about the re-establishment of Israel to the Jewish people. Some say that those currently occupying Israel are not genetically Jews but Khazars. I've read some about this idea. Some sources say that DNA of the Ashkenazi Jews (originally from the Khazar region) have Jewish descent. They may be mixed blood. Also, there are Sephardic Jews that have returned to Israel. And I read that there were people of Israelite genetic make-up living in Israel before it became an independent state. Concerning Zionism, it does have many aspects that are not biblically sound. Even so, Israel has been re-established and open to receive those of Abraham's seed to the state.

    Also, I read that only people of Israeli descent (perhaps even only Jewish) can be citizens in Israel. Everyone else is considered a resident alien. This contributes to the strife between the Israelis and Palestinians. Palestinians never had their own state in this region. But they desire it, since they have been there for a long time. so, having the Jews be given the area for a Jewish state results in strife in this area. I don't think it will ever be settled. Israel's borders are smaller that the area promised to Abraham by God. They do not yet possess all of the land of Promise yet.

    I recommend reading up on this subject.
  • GiGi on Genesis 15:5
    Good day, everyone! God made it. Let us rejoice and be glad in it!

    What stands out to me in this chapter is how God swore and oath to himself while Abraham was deeply asleep. To me, this means that the covenant and promise cannot be broken, because God is always true to His Word.

    For my husband and I, conceiving children did not come quickly. It took more than a year for the first two and over 6 months for the third. So, at that time, I remembered how Abraham had already waited many decades to have a child without conceiving and then, after the promise, another 25 years went by before Sarah conceived Isaac.

    I love the read about the faith of Abraham, after so many years of not conceiving, to believe what God then promised despite all "odds". And then he had to keep believing for 25 years! Although Ishmael was conceived perhaps a decade before Isaac, but he was not the child promised. Sarah and Abraham tried on their own counsel to bring a child into their lives. That did not turn out very well for everyone, as we will read in future chapters.

    For us, we prayed and believed that God would answer our prayers in His timing, and he did. But we also have known people that prayed for a child and never conceived. They were able to adopt a child. They were blessed in a different way. But the waiting can be painful, as those around you are conceiving right away and have children already in their homes. So, for anyone who is not conceiving as they planned, I pray for comfort and assurance from the Lord that he will chose wisely for you. It's a difficult time to endure. Having my three sons and having had the pleasure of being home full-time to raise them up was wonderful. I have always wished I could have more than three, but pregnancy and childbirth posed serious danger for each of my sweet boys. After a year of pray and seeking God about having more children, we felt led to cease having children. That was a very difficult decision for us. Yet, we were blessed with 3
  • Mary - in Reply on Genesis 15
    400 in the bible derive it's meaning as being divinely perfect period. A four hundred year period exists from God fulfilling his pledge to Abraham that he would have a son to the children of Isreal leaving Egyptian bondage...
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Genesis 15
    they were in Eypth for 400 years.
  • Jesse Waller on Genesis 15
    What is the significance of four hundred in the bible?
  • Mishael on How to search numbers in the search box - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Put this in the search box when you enter the website. Do not search numbers only; you have to type: four hundred.

    You will get every scripture with that number.
  • Jesse Waller on Genesis 15
    What is the significance of 400 in the bible?
  • T. Levis - in Reply on Genesis 15
    Genesis 15:1 & Genesis 15:6 (in principal)

    What Jesus did = Matthew 9:35

    Promises = Exodus 23:25 , Deuteronomy 7:15 , Psalm 41:1 -3 ,

    Judgement = Deuteronomy 28:61 ,

    Instruction = 2 Chronicles 6:28 -29 , James 5:14 -15
  • Larry Parker on Genesis 15
    Times of sickness ?
  • Mary Sue - in Reply on Genesis 15
    yes, we're in the Laodicean age, as in Revelations 3:14 - 22. Most important point is, Be ready at all times ! Look to the sky and patiently, with excitement, wait for Jesus' soon return to receive us to be with Him forever. !!! wow !! I get me excited

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