Comment about Matthew 13 the parable of the sower and his precious seed,the living WORD of GOD. ITS about a seed that is gonna form Christ in Humanity initiating a heavenly birth,I say humanity b/c Jesus said the field was the World,our hearts is the womb where that good seed is sown ( my lil children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you ) the Child is the H.G. as that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT.THE WOMAN IS THE WORLD, God so loved the World etc .Unless ya receive the kingdom as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in.Thats y the good seed is the pearl of great Price its the very seed of God,count the cost etc. its gonna cost ya everything .To whom the word came ( that good seed ) it made them Gods and put them in the very kingdom of God.Hearing and understanding that Word will result in conception n gestation in the spiritual realm. My lil children of whom i travail in birth Again till Christ is formed in you. Ya gotta realize that the sower of that good seed is Christ th bridegroom thats y he is saying the good seed are the children of the kingdom,when Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming he said unto us a Child is born unto us a son is given we have to receive it as a heavenly birth via his seed the living WORD. Thats y he is saying unless ya receive the kingdom as a lil child you will in no wise enter there in. SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD THAT IS GONNA RULE ALL NATIONS ,THE WOMAN IS THE WORLD HER CHILD IS THE H.G. OUR NEW INNERMAN OUR NEW HEART AND NEW SPIRIT CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY. Thou shall suck dry the breasts of the Gentiles, even the Gentiles are GONNA birth the SON OF MAN OUR FRUIT UNTO GOD VIA THAT GOOD SEED. Kings shall be your nursing fathers and Queens shall be your nursing mothers meaning men n women are qona birth a baby Christ which is the H.G. Oh that good seed is gona wreck satans world thats y there is war in heaven between satan n the manchild which is Christ in us via that good seed th woman is us gb
Thanks for all that interesting, valuable information Robert. Most of us will never know these things until someone else who has researched into the state (condition) of present day Israel, informs us. Appreciate your time & knowledge on this.
You: "I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world."
This is probably where a lot of error & misunderstanding comes up: how to dissect correctly what has been fulfilled & what is yet to come. In our natural mind, we tend to read things as a developing story, & so what was prophesied to occur prior to & at the arrival/destruction by the Roman Army in AD70, then also speaks about a great tribulation, which no doubt meant great suffering to the Jews at that time (i.e. from Mt 24:20 to the change in v 21). And the thought of the great tribulation is continued from there to v31, which clearly hasn't happened in its fullest sense. So much speculation arises, different teaching, & sometimes a trail of confused believers as to what is actually going on here. I just have to accept that post Cross, there was & will always be much suffering from the hands of wicked men (spirit of anti-Christ), & we must simply believe that all the prophecies given must be fulfilled according to the declarations by God.
You: "I have evangelized many a Jew, and they hate the New Testament."
As I have done to a lesser extent than you, in ministry to Muslims in Pakistan, who likewise discount the whole Bible as 'filled with errors' in 'light of the revelation given by the Quran'. My approach has always been to begin on common ground (on which there is much) & even using the Quran to establish foundational truths, so that progress (= more light) can be made & seen. Of course, one's own knowledge has to be very good & the hearer must also be inclined to learn. Sadly, deficiency in both areas, prevents a meaningful discourse taking place.
Can you show me 7 years somewhere in the New Testament. I see 3 1/2 years in Revelation. Am I missing something on that? You are correct. 70 weeks were fulfilled. that is how I see it. The word AFTER in verse 26 puts Jesus' death right int he middle of the 70th week in verse 27 because 7 weeks were already fulfilled before the mentioning of the next 62 weeks.
I believe a double fulfillment of the time of jacob's trouble is coming but we are the ones already beginning to be persecuted. There are three things Biblically we are persecuted "because of".
1. For MY NAME'S SAKE. You have to be a follower of Jesus.
2. For godliness sake. The new US Embassy in Jerusalem just blessed the gay pride over there.
3. For my word's sake. They follow the modern Sanhedrin 70 just like they followed the oral law of the 70 elders instead of Moses most of the time throughout old testament history. Modern Judaism is Talmudic and kabbalah.
I don't see how a natural nation fits what Jesus said was true Biblical persecution nor does the modern state fit any of it. Most pre-trib teachers do what I call "Newspaper Eschatology" but when you do it and bring stuff like this up, they ignore you and act like what you are saying is not true. Chris, when you tell them there is more natural Jewish blood in Palestine than in Israel, they don't know what to say but two DNA tests done by two different Jewish DNA scientists have proven this over the last 20 years. They plan on doing a study in Iran. That is a whole other subject that isn't going to be talked about by Perry Stone, John Hagee and others who want to ignore the 16-legged, 5-eyed pink elephant in the room. If it doesn't fit their theology, they won't talk about it nor do they want their followers to learn about it. They purposely keep black Jews from Ethiopia and Etrithea from moving into Israel. I can go on and on. This stuff is written in their own newspapers like Hareetz, Jerusalem Post, etc. A good example of a famous pre-trib teacher that did this was Jack Van IMpe who I watched blindly for years. He always quoted what he wanted to quote out of those two newspapers but when I started seeing what else they said in their own newspapers I came to realize Van IMpe didn't want his audience to know the things he didn't want them to know because it would have created problems for his ministry.
Then Mt 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Dan 12:11 or Dan 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Dan 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Mt 24:15 becomes intriguing.
Me:
Yes, abominations is plural in Daniel 9:27, not singular. Can't use that one and stay intellectually honest. I don't have all the answers. I just try to never add or take away from the word of God. And there is that nasty "S" in the original manuscripts in Daniel 9:27.
What do you think of the eagle symbol the Roman Army had? Could that be the where you see the eagles gather? We take it as literal eagles. But Jesus is going to incinerate the earth which wold cleanse everything. Just a thought I just thought of so as Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride movie once said to Vizzini, "I don't know your thinkum is what your thinkum is" or something like that. LOL.
YOU:
Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' ( Mt 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us."
Me: Fulfilled in 70 AD with signs as historically written of outside of the Bible. ALL the Christians in Jerusalem escaped when the Roman Army made its last push. 1.1 million unsaved Jews stayed in Jerusalem and were slaughtered, and 90,000 were sold into slavery, some mothers were eating their children to feed their other children. About 2 million were killed leading up to and including this final battle. So about 2/3rds of the Jewish population worldwide was wiped out. Many scholars believe this was the time of Jacob's trouble because percentage-wise way more Jews were killed than the Holocaust and in a much much worse way.
Good Morning Chris. WE finally got a much-needed all night shower up here in the north.
I was jsut saying that it would be a day late and a dollar short if the antichrist has already risen to power for an unsaved Jewish person to read what has already been mostly fulfilled in Matthew 24. Remember there are three different greek words in Matthew 24 for the word WORLD. The word oikenume means Roman Empire so the apostles did preach the gospel to the entire Roman Empire by 70 AD. That has been fulfilled. But like I said, I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world.
I have evangelized many of Jew, and they hate the New Testament. They call the Old Testament, the ONLY Testament. I hit them with "Then why does the Bible Numerics phenomenon underlie the entire text of the New Testament which proves God's authorship?" I don't get an answer. Try that some time when trying to reach them whether converted Khazar jews from southern russia from 800 AD that are the ones who mostly live in Israel today or the more natural Jews, most living in other countries. Pre-trib teachers don't like mentioning that one to their followers.
You: "But you are forgetting that unsaved Jews do not read the New Testament, etc. etc."
Me: I wasn't implying that the Jews or the disciples read the NT - of course it didn't exist. But by what the disciples heard from Jesus during His discourses, including whatever the general populace heard at various times, would have been recalled at the marching in of Titus & his armies. And all the subsequent events that Jesus spoke about would have hung over the disciples' heads as they waited for Jesus' Words to be fulfilled. And all the events that Jesus spoke about in Mt 24 applied to "that whole generation of Jews (all Jewry)" not just those living at that time, & of course, it was prophecy that had far reaching application to the rest of the world.
Then Mt 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Dan 12:11 or Dan 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Dan 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Mt 24:15 becomes intriguing.
Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' ( Mt 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us.
You don't have to commit to any of them. There may be another answer then the three I have posted. Those are the only three possibilities I can see with the history I do know, and with scripture and what I have heard others teach. I lean to the 2nd choice as it fits Daniel 9's two main things
messiah dying for sins and the 2nd temple being destroyed. And the war just happened to be 3 1/2 years long from fall of 66AD to spring of 70AD. It fits perfectly in my eyes.
The one thing I do know is we cannot derive a 7 year time period from Daniel 9 but we may be able to derive a future 31/2 years. 3 1/2 is an incomplete number. It is possible that it can be a double fulfillment 3 1/2 years- one for 70 AD and one for way in the future. I never thought about that till now. I know that would get the full preterists mad at me for doing that.
Re: those who are "taken away" ( Mt 24:39-41). If those who are 'taken away' are those who receive the beast's mark, then to where are they taken? Is it to their death, to some other location awaiting sentence or with mark removed, now comprising the 'nations' after the Tribulation? ( Rev 20:3,8; 21:24)? We understand that many will die during the Tribulation period & the Lord Himself will destroy the beast, the false prophet & the armies that come against Him ( Rev 19:19-21), but can we assume that all human life will perish at this time, or will there be some that remain to re-populate the Earth (& noted what you suggested in this regard)? So, I'm unsure whether I've adequately responded to your pages of comments, but wanted to condense it all to one page."
Me:
I believe Hades is still around. Abraham's bosom is gone as the dead in Christ rose with Jesus as the first fruits 2,000 years ago. Hades has to be in existence still. Check this verse out.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell (Hades), and all the nations that forget God.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
No one is in the lake of fire yet. Although the false prophet and antichrist get to be thrown in 1,000 years before everyone else.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE (these two men were already in for 1,000 years), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
And of course "generation" ( Mt 24:34) can't apply to only those living at that time, but to the 'Jewish people' who experienced the start of their troubles from AD 70 (v 2) & onwards. His disciples must have thought at the time, that Emperor Titus' invasion was about to fulfil Jesus' discourse, but of course, it was only the start of their troubles, with much worse to come, climaxing in the future.
Me:
But you are forgetting that unsaved Jews do not read the New Testament. Very few even read the Old Testament and almost never without following the commentaries of the unsaved rabbis who didn't even know the 490 year timeline and rejected their own messiah. Matthew 24 was not going to do anyone who were not even going to read it any good. WHO was Jesus' answering? James, Peter, John and Andrew. Always take "How would have those the book was originally written to have taken or understood what was said". It was written to Christians, or I guess I should say those who were going to be born again within the next few months.
Re: the Fig Tree. I agree with you that in these portions ( Mt 24 & Lk 21) the Fig tree is not Israel but used as part of Jesus' illustration to reveal the signs pointing to His second coming, though I don't see those devastations happening 'all at the same time'. If one had to consider the rate of time between the two, I would think that a fig tree in its season, would bud & fruit far quicker than the fulfilling of all those occurrences prior to His Coming. So I just accept it as an illustration rather than to apply a time rate to it. So "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees": I understand the "all the trees" as Jesus' emphasis as to the abundance of evidence that 'summer is nigh' = His Coming.
Research what was going on then. Increase of earthquakes and all that were happening then too. What we would call the "birth pangs" or beginning of sorrows. This is why I take it as a double fulfillment prophecy.
Robert, I can't tell one way or the other about the 3 1/2 yrs. I find that there isn't enough historical information given to place some of these events exactly to how I think they should be. And when we need to refer to both OT & NT references, some of the timeline of events seems to get blurred or lost. So, I would rather not commit to this as I know, I would invariably be in error.
Robert, that was a lot of work you put in, so my thanks. But I'll keep my comments to the point.
Re: the Fig Tree. I agree with you that in these portions ( Mt 24 & Lk 21) the Fig tree is not Israel but used as part of Jesus' illustration to reveal the signs pointing to His second coming, though I don't see those devastations happening 'all at the same time'. If one had to consider the rate of time between the two, I would think that a fig tree in its season, would bud & fruit far quicker than the fulfilling of all those occurrences prior to His Coming. So I just accept it as an illustration rather than to apply a time rate to it. So "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees": I understand the "all the trees" as Jesus' emphasis as to the abundance of evidence that 'summer is nigh' = His Coming.
And of course "generation" ( Mt 24:34) can't apply to only those living at that time, but to the 'Jewish people' who experienced the start of their troubles from AD 70 (v 2) & onwards. His disciples must have thought at the time, that Emperor Titus' invasion was about to fulfil Jesus' discourse, but of course, it was only the start of their troubles, with much worse to come, climaxing in the future.
Re: those who are "taken away" ( Mt 24:39-41). If those who are 'taken away' are those who receive the beast's mark, then to where are they taken? Is it to their death, to some other location awaiting sentence or with mark removed, now comprising the 'nations' after the Tribulation? ( Rev 20:3,8; 21:24)? We understand that many will die during the Tribulation period & the Lord Himself will destroy the beast, the false prophet & the armies that come against Him ( Rev 19:19-21), but can we assume that all human life will perish at this time, or will there be some that remain to re-populate the Earth (& noted what you suggested in this regard)? So, I'm unsure whether I've adequately responded to your pages of comments, but wanted to condense it all to one page.
Dan. 9:24, 25 and 26a and 27a and 27b is all about the Messiah Jesus.
Dan. 26b and 27c is Titus and the roman army. YOu can say that 27c is both Jesus and Titus because God always used Israel's enemies to punish them and Jesus pronounced that punishment on the nonbelievers. Hope this helps break it down for you.
Dan 9:26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
Dan 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
B= General/Prince Titus who led the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD. He became a prince overnight when his dad Vespasian became Caesar of Rome. All historical. Has nothing to do with a future antichrist.
When will or When did the last 3 Years of Daniel Chapter 9 get Fulfilled?
Choice One:
7th Day Adventists take the 'Stephen principle' dying 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified thus fulfilling all 70 weeks of Daniel chapter nine's 490 year timeline or what is called the 70 prophetic weeks with each week equaling 7 years. The problem I have with this view although it could be true is that it cannot be proven Biblically or historically when the evangelist Stephen was stoned to death. It really stems from their prophetess Ellen G. Whites supposed vision. I am not going to put my faith in something that cannot be proven with the Bible and Ellen had some false prophecies.
Choice Two:
I hold to the 3 1/2 year war that ended in 70 AD with Jesus giving the unsaved Jews an extra 40 years to repent and believe upon Him as their Messiah. I do so because it, what was known as The Great Revolt, lasted 3 1/2 years, so it is historical, and it also fulfills part of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy as the prophecy not only talks about Messiah coming and dying for sins but also that the 2nd temple would be destroyed which obviously means that Messiah had to come before the 2nd temple was destroyed. There is no getting around that. This prophecy also matches nicely with all the parables, and warnings Jesus gave the Jews in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23.
CHOICE 3:
The Book of Revelation talks about a 3 year period. Whether this is an entirely different 3 years than the 490 years of Daniel chapter nine's 70 weeks prophecy or not I feel cannot be proven either way. A 'full preterist' would say this portion of Revelation was already fulfilled in 70 AD also. I have some problems with that. I tend to hold to Revelation's 3 years as different than the Daniel 9 490 years because it seems to be dealing with a different group of people and Messiah had already come and died for sins. I think choice two is the most logical.
Few think about that one. There has to be a reason for a premillennial view and a literal reign of Christ on earth. I hold to a premillennial reign of Christ. There are too many time-specific things to think it was meant to be symbolic and I surely don't see any children leading a lion around in our zoos, do you so full preterism has a problem with that.
There has to be those who are going to rule and reign with Christ on earth and Paul tells us that it will be the Christians who were faithful and living for the Lord and there has to be those whom they will rule and reign over. Without abortion , war, and murder going on for 1,000 years, we may see a population that reaches a trillion people. Plus all the women will be healthy with no miscarriages and probably having several babies each instead of one or two.
But I also think that us Christians have been warning people like a pre-tribber would warn to get right so you can get out of here and not have to take the mark and the post-tribber would say you need to get right with God and begin getting oil in your lamp for the hard times coming.
So all these people being warned know not to take the mark of the beast so some will survive the time of tribulation without taking the mark. This could be another group. I'm just trying to figure out if there could be other possibilities. I can't prove it but I kind of take the one int he filed that is taken is the wicked person who took the mark adn the other one is either a jewish person that was exempt from taking the mark or someone who survived that didn't receive Jesus but also didn't take the mark.
YOU: One could argue, that Noah too was "taken away" from the flood's destructive work on all living, in which case the farmers & mill grinders would experience the same prospect with the righteous one taken & the unrighteous one left. If this understanding is correct, then the unrighteous who are left are those who will continue into the Millennium. And those taken to be with Christ at His Coming are the elect (v 31) (Israel, not Elect because of salvation, but by God's choosing cf v 22) & they along with the raptured Saints (who come with Christ at His Second Coming) will reign with Him through the Millennium.
ME: The problem with that would be that anyone who takes the mark of the beast which might be tied into the noahide laws (not sure and time will tell), will not repopulate. They are damned for ever once they make that choice. Revelation tells us this 7 times. Those that are alive and remain UNTO the coming (parousia) of the Lord will be raptured (post-trib) and be glorified with a new body to reign with Christ on earth. So it can't be those two types of people.
Either some people are going to be exempt from having to take the mark and why I lean toward the noahide laws for the one reason I mentioned before that these are meant for gentiles only. Also, Leviticus says to not put any mark on one's body so in an attempt that a small portion of Jews go back under the law of Moses, this would be another reason. 3rd reason of course is the beheading clause in noahide laws' sublaws. This is why I am leaning that way and it makes sense as the government over there has put a huge illuminati pyramid with the eye of Horus on top of their supreme court building.
Robert, that's an interesting question: who will repopulate the Earth in the Millennium? You're correct that the "taking away" in verse 39 refers to the wicked of Noah's day, but can that phrase be used in the same way for vv 40, 41?
Three most important rules in Biblical interpretation are context, context, context. Verse 39 tells us WHO these next two verses are talking about. There is no reason to try to read in a pre-trib rapture when it already tells us who the who is.
Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what got me really reading God's Word when I found out that 99% of people taught that that verse was speaking of Israel. I found other problems with these teacher's teachings on end times.
How about "The Time of Jacob's Trouble". It is only mentioned one time in all of scripture and it seems to be something that happened around 2,500 years ago and was already fulfilled. Many verses that have already been fulfilled are being used today as 'future' prophecies. I am open to some being a double fulfillment but I know a full preterist would say to me you can't justify it and they may be right trying to justify an already fulfilled prophecy and saying it has a future fulfillment too. The full futurist would say none of them have been fulfilled which is incorrect. I can go off into dispensationalism and all of that other stuff. You think if there were 7 to 17 dispensations as is taught in the modern pre-trib rapture movement, you think God would have had the word in the Bible at least 7 times but it is only in scripture 4 times and always speaks of the Old and New Covenant so it cannot be justified Biblically.
All very easily debunkable. Just have to get out the E-sword (free Bible software download) and do a word search, read each passage in its biblical and historical context and presto, you know what it is saying. If I can do it, anyone can. God is not a respector of persons if someone is really seeking truth and God's holiness.
I just hope some people will start just searching their hearts and asking God to show them if there is anything false in them. As soon as I hear someone say, "we need more than the word of God" I have to question what they are about to say and I think this may be why I originally wrote this article.
Not sure if you fell for this one, but I did for 30 years. The fig tree in Matthew 24:32 IS NOT Israel. How come so many teachers got that wrong? Is it that they don't know what a metaphor or parable is or were they so lazy as to not read the other two synoptic gospels were a tiny detail was given that totally debunks that? That is what I did for decades - GUILTY!
This is called a logical fallacy- what they taught CAN'T be true if it contradicts elsewhere. They will continue to teach that though although some no longer use that passage because guys like me showed them they can't and be honest.
Here it is: Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. Notice in verse 29, that it has that extra part to it -AND ALL THE TREES.
This is so easy to interpret. Jesus is merely saying when you see all of these 20 signs I am giving you here HAPPENING ALL AT THE SAME TIME, it is like a fig tree [which is common in that area] and ALL OF THE OTHER TREES getting their spring flowers, the flowers falling off and the leaves shooting forth. Jesus is saying THE END OF THE AGE and MY RETURN will be in that generation.
He was just making a comparison of natural things around that area. In other words,
20 SIGNS = END OF AGE AND MY RETURN. It is that simple. How they got this fig tree was Israel IN THIS PARTICULAR VERSE, I don't know. Maybe back to that laziness. I was too lazy to study it for myself and just bought it hook, line and sinker when I was taught it but many who didn't study it for themselves. I was brainwashed for 30 years to believe that because I didn't question the teaching.
Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what...
Good morning Chris. How about we tackle one thing at a time as there are many things in Matthew 24 that I missed for decades that I started seeing differently. Why I call myself a dual fulfillment prophecy person. One of those is that one chapter has three different greek words for the word world and for good reason. I used to think it was always 'cosmos' because I was too lazy to look up every word. Anyhow, let's look at this one fallacy I ran into which was the first thing I noticed I was taught wrongly when I was pre-trib for 30+ years. Here it is.
Let's take the fig tree in Matthew 24:32. I wrote an article on it a few years back.
Basically, I see Mt 24 account of the Last Days as being directed to Israel & not to the Church; I realize that I'm going 'against the current' on this one, but Jesus' hearers were His disciples, His community: the Jews, & His illustrations (e.g. the Fig tree), pertained to them. I don't see the Church here until the apostles refer to her & her position in those latter days. So in this discourse to His disciples, I see: vv 4-14 shows the time from His Ascension to the Gospel proclamation cut-off time. vv 15-20: Anti-Christ's emerging & his impact on Israel. vv 21-29: the Great Tribulation. vv 30-44: Christ's Second Coming. vv 45-51: Judgement against the unrighteous ones. Even though, the Church can learn much from this chapter, as to her preparedness & watchfulness, I still see this directed solely to Israel & the unbelieving world at large as the Church is not seen here, except for references to her ( Jn 10:16: "the other sheep").
Robert, that's an interesting question: who will repopulate the Earth in the Millennium? You're correct that the "taking away" in verse 39 refers to the wicked of Noah's day, but can that phrase be used in the same way for vv 40, 41?
One could argue, that Noah too was "taken away" from the flood's destructive work on all living, in which case the farmers & mill grinders would experience the same prospect with the righteous one taken & the unrighteous one left. If this understanding is correct, then the unrighteous who are left are those who will continue into the Millennium. And those taken to be with Christ at His Coming are the elect (v 31) (Israel, not Elect because of salvation, but by God's choosing cf v 22) & they along with the raptured Saints (who come with Christ at His Second Coming) will reign with Him through the Millennium.
However, if your understanding is correct, that the unrighteous are the ones referred to in vv 40, 41 who are taken away, then there are the various possibilities, as you suggested, as to who will repopulate the Earth during the Millennium. I couldn't even begin to guess the answer to that one. (onto Page 2.)
This is probably where a lot of error & misunderstanding comes up: how to dissect correctly what has been fulfilled & what is yet to come. In our natural mind, we tend to read things as a developing story, & so what was prophesied to occur prior to & at the arrival/destruction by the Roman Army in AD70, then also speaks about a great tribulation, which no doubt meant great suffering to the Jews at that time (i.e. from Mt 24:20 to the change in v 21). And the thought of the great tribulation is continued from there to v31, which clearly hasn't happened in its fullest sense. So much speculation arises, different teaching, & sometimes a trail of confused believers as to what is actually going on here. I just have to accept that post Cross, there was & will always be much suffering from the hands of wicked men (spirit of anti-Christ), & we must simply believe that all the prophecies given must be fulfilled according to the declarations by God.
You: "I have evangelized many a Jew, and they hate the New Testament."
As I have done to a lesser extent than you, in ministry to Muslims in Pakistan, who likewise discount the whole Bible as 'filled with errors' in 'light of the revelation given by the Quran'. My approach has always been to begin on common ground (on which there is much) & even using the Quran to establish foundational truths, so that progress (= more light) can be made & seen. Of course, one's own knowledge has to be very good & the hearer must also be inclined to learn. Sadly, deficiency in both areas, prevents a meaningful discourse taking place.
Can you show me 7 years somewhere in the New Testament. I see 3 1/2 years in Revelation. Am I missing something on that? You are correct. 70 weeks were fulfilled. that is how I see it. The word AFTER in verse 26 puts Jesus' death right int he middle of the 70th week in verse 27 because 7 weeks were already fulfilled before the mentioning of the next 62 weeks.
1. For MY NAME'S SAKE. You have to be a follower of Jesus.
2. For godliness sake. The new US Embassy in Jerusalem just blessed the gay pride over there.
3. For my word's sake. They follow the modern Sanhedrin 70 just like they followed the oral law of the 70 elders instead of Moses most of the time throughout old testament history. Modern Judaism is Talmudic and kabbalah.
I don't see how a natural nation fits what Jesus said was true Biblical persecution nor does the modern state fit any of it. Most pre-trib teachers do what I call "Newspaper Eschatology" but when you do it and bring stuff like this up, they ignore you and act like what you are saying is not true. Chris, when you tell them there is more natural Jewish blood in Palestine than in Israel, they don't know what to say but two DNA tests done by two different Jewish DNA scientists have proven this over the last 20 years. They plan on doing a study in Iran. That is a whole other subject that isn't going to be talked about by Perry Stone, John Hagee and others who want to ignore the 16-legged, 5-eyed pink elephant in the room. If it doesn't fit their theology, they won't talk about it nor do they want their followers to learn about it. They purposely keep black Jews from Ethiopia and Etrithea from moving into Israel. I can go on and on. This stuff is written in their own newspapers like Hareetz, Jerusalem Post, etc. A good example of a famous pre-trib teacher that did this was Jack Van IMpe who I watched blindly for years. He always quoted what he wanted to quote out of those two newspapers but when I started seeing what else they said in their own newspapers I came to realize Van IMpe didn't want his audience to know the things he didn't want them to know because it would have created problems for his ministry.
Then Mt 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Dan 12:11 or Dan 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Dan 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Mt 24:15 becomes intriguing.
Me:
Yes, abominations is plural in Daniel 9:27, not singular. Can't use that one and stay intellectually honest. I don't have all the answers. I just try to never add or take away from the word of God. And there is that nasty "S" in the original manuscripts in Daniel 9:27.
What do you think of the eagle symbol the Roman Army had? Could that be the where you see the eagles gather? We take it as literal eagles. But Jesus is going to incinerate the earth which wold cleanse everything. Just a thought I just thought of so as Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride movie once said to Vizzini, "I don't know your thinkum is what your thinkum is" or something like that. LOL.
YOU:
Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' ( Mt 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us."
Me: Fulfilled in 70 AD with signs as historically written of outside of the Bible. ALL the Christians in Jerusalem escaped when the Roman Army made its last push. 1.1 million unsaved Jews stayed in Jerusalem and were slaughtered, and 90,000 were sold into slavery, some mothers were eating their children to feed their other children. About 2 million were killed leading up to and including this final battle. So about 2/3rds of the Jewish population worldwide was wiped out. Many scholars believe this was the time of Jacob's trouble because percentage-wise way more Jews were killed than the Holocaust and in a much much worse way.
I was jsut saying that it would be a day late and a dollar short if the antichrist has already risen to power for an unsaved Jewish person to read what has already been mostly fulfilled in Matthew 24. Remember there are three different greek words in Matthew 24 for the word WORLD. The word oikenume means Roman Empire so the apostles did preach the gospel to the entire Roman Empire by 70 AD. That has been fulfilled. But like I said, I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world.
I have evangelized many of Jew, and they hate the New Testament. They call the Old Testament, the ONLY Testament. I hit them with "Then why does the Bible Numerics phenomenon underlie the entire text of the New Testament which proves God's authorship?" I don't get an answer. Try that some time when trying to reach them whether converted Khazar jews from southern russia from 800 AD that are the ones who mostly live in Israel today or the more natural Jews, most living in other countries. Pre-trib teachers don't like mentioning that one to their followers.
get back to you on the other thing you said.
Me: I wasn't implying that the Jews or the disciples read the NT - of course it didn't exist. But by what the disciples heard from Jesus during His discourses, including whatever the general populace heard at various times, would have been recalled at the marching in of Titus & his armies. And all the subsequent events that Jesus spoke about would have hung over the disciples' heads as they waited for Jesus' Words to be fulfilled. And all the events that Jesus spoke about in Mt 24 applied to "that whole generation of Jews (all Jewry)" not just those living at that time, & of course, it was prophecy that had far reaching application to the rest of the world.
Then Mt 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Dan 12:11 or Dan 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Dan 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Mt 24:15 becomes intriguing.
Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' ( Mt 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us.
messiah dying for sins and the 2nd temple being destroyed. And the war just happened to be 3 1/2 years long from fall of 66AD to spring of 70AD. It fits perfectly in my eyes.
The one thing I do know is we cannot derive a 7 year time period from Daniel 9 but we may be able to derive a future 31/2 years. 3 1/2 is an incomplete number. It is possible that it can be a double fulfillment 3 1/2 years- one for 70 AD and one for way in the future. I never thought about that till now. I know that would get the full preterists mad at me for doing that.
Me:
I believe Hades is still around. Abraham's bosom is gone as the dead in Christ rose with Jesus as the first fruits 2,000 years ago. Hades has to be in existence still. Check this verse out.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell (Hades), and all the nations that forget God.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
No one is in the lake of fire yet. Although the false prophet and antichrist get to be thrown in 1,000 years before everyone else.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE (these two men were already in for 1,000 years), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Me:
But you are forgetting that unsaved Jews do not read the New Testament. Very few even read the Old Testament and almost never without following the commentaries of the unsaved rabbis who didn't even know the 490 year timeline and rejected their own messiah. Matthew 24 was not going to do anyone who were not even going to read it any good. WHO was Jesus' answering? James, Peter, John and Andrew. Always take "How would have those the book was originally written to have taken or understood what was said". It was written to Christians, or I guess I should say those who were going to be born again within the next few months.
Research what was going on then. Increase of earthquakes and all that were happening then too. What we would call the "birth pangs" or beginning of sorrows. This is why I take it as a double fulfillment prophecy.
Re: the Fig Tree. I agree with you that in these portions ( Mt 24 & Lk 21) the Fig tree is not Israel but used as part of Jesus' illustration to reveal the signs pointing to His second coming, though I don't see those devastations happening 'all at the same time'. If one had to consider the rate of time between the two, I would think that a fig tree in its season, would bud & fruit far quicker than the fulfilling of all those occurrences prior to His Coming. So I just accept it as an illustration rather than to apply a time rate to it. So "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees": I understand the "all the trees" as Jesus' emphasis as to the abundance of evidence that 'summer is nigh' = His Coming.
And of course "generation" ( Mt 24:34) can't apply to only those living at that time, but to the 'Jewish people' who experienced the start of their troubles from AD 70 (v 2) & onwards. His disciples must have thought at the time, that Emperor Titus' invasion was about to fulfil Jesus' discourse, but of course, it was only the start of their troubles, with much worse to come, climaxing in the future.
Re: those who are "taken away" ( Mt 24:39-41). If those who are 'taken away' are those who receive the beast's mark, then to where are they taken? Is it to their death, to some other location awaiting sentence or with mark removed, now comprising the 'nations' after the Tribulation? ( Rev 20:3,8; 21:24)? We understand that many will die during the Tribulation period & the Lord Himself will destroy the beast, the false prophet & the armies that come against Him ( Rev 19:19-21), but can we assume that all human life will perish at this time, or will there be some that remain to re-populate the Earth (& noted what you suggested in this regard)? So, I'm unsure whether I've adequately responded to your pages of comments, but wanted to condense it all to one page.
Dan. 26b and 27c is Titus and the roman army. YOu can say that 27c is both Jesus and Titus because God always used Israel's enemies to punish them and Jesus pronounced that punishment on the nonbelievers. Hope this helps break it down for you.
Dan 9:26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
Dan 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
B= General/Prince Titus who led the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD. He became a prince overnight when his dad Vespasian became Caesar of Rome. All historical. Has nothing to do with a future antichrist.
When will or When did the last 3 Years of Daniel Chapter 9 get Fulfilled?
Choice One:
7th Day Adventists take the 'Stephen principle' dying 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified thus fulfilling all 70 weeks of Daniel chapter nine's 490 year timeline or what is called the 70 prophetic weeks with each week equaling 7 years. The problem I have with this view although it could be true is that it cannot be proven Biblically or historically when the evangelist Stephen was stoned to death. It really stems from their prophetess Ellen G. Whites supposed vision. I am not going to put my faith in something that cannot be proven with the Bible and Ellen had some false prophecies.
Choice Two:
I hold to the 3 1/2 year war that ended in 70 AD with Jesus giving the unsaved Jews an extra 40 years to repent and believe upon Him as their Messiah. I do so because it, what was known as The Great Revolt, lasted 3 1/2 years, so it is historical, and it also fulfills part of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy as the prophecy not only talks about Messiah coming and dying for sins but also that the 2nd temple would be destroyed which obviously means that Messiah had to come before the 2nd temple was destroyed. There is no getting around that. This prophecy also matches nicely with all the parables, and warnings Jesus gave the Jews in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23.
CHOICE 3:
The Book of Revelation talks about a 3 year period. Whether this is an entirely different 3 years than the 490 years of Daniel chapter nine's 70 weeks prophecy or not I feel cannot be proven either way. A 'full preterist' would say this portion of Revelation was already fulfilled in 70 AD also. I have some problems with that. I tend to hold to Revelation's 3 years as different than the Daniel 9 490 years because it seems to be dealing with a different group of people and Messiah had already come and died for sins. I think choice two is the most logical.
There has to be those who are going to rule and reign with Christ on earth and Paul tells us that it will be the Christians who were faithful and living for the Lord and there has to be those whom they will rule and reign over. Without abortion , war, and murder going on for 1,000 years, we may see a population that reaches a trillion people. Plus all the women will be healthy with no miscarriages and probably having several babies each instead of one or two.
So all these people being warned know not to take the mark of the beast so some will survive the time of tribulation without taking the mark. This could be another group. I'm just trying to figure out if there could be other possibilities. I can't prove it but I kind of take the one int he filed that is taken is the wicked person who took the mark adn the other one is either a jewish person that was exempt from taking the mark or someone who survived that didn't receive Jesus but also didn't take the mark.
Thoughts?
ME: The problem with that would be that anyone who takes the mark of the beast which might be tied into the noahide laws (not sure and time will tell), will not repopulate. They are damned for ever once they make that choice. Revelation tells us this 7 times. Those that are alive and remain UNTO the coming (parousia) of the Lord will be raptured (post-trib) and be glorified with a new body to reign with Christ on earth. So it can't be those two types of people.
Either some people are going to be exempt from having to take the mark and why I lean toward the noahide laws for the one reason I mentioned before that these are meant for gentiles only. Also, Leviticus says to not put any mark on one's body so in an attempt that a small portion of Jews go back under the law of Moses, this would be another reason. 3rd reason of course is the beheading clause in noahide laws' sublaws. This is why I am leaning that way and it makes sense as the government over there has put a huge illuminati pyramid with the eye of Horus on top of their supreme court building.
Three most important rules in Biblical interpretation are context, context, context. Verse 39 tells us WHO these next two verses are talking about. There is no reason to try to read in a pre-trib rapture when it already tells us who the who is.
Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what got me really reading God's Word when I found out that 99% of people taught that that verse was speaking of Israel. I found other problems with these teacher's teachings on end times.
How about "The Time of Jacob's Trouble". It is only mentioned one time in all of scripture and it seems to be something that happened around 2,500 years ago and was already fulfilled. Many verses that have already been fulfilled are being used today as 'future' prophecies. I am open to some being a double fulfillment but I know a full preterist would say to me you can't justify it and they may be right trying to justify an already fulfilled prophecy and saying it has a future fulfillment too. The full futurist would say none of them have been fulfilled which is incorrect. I can go off into dispensationalism and all of that other stuff. You think if there were 7 to 17 dispensations as is taught in the modern pre-trib rapture movement, you think God would have had the word in the Bible at least 7 times but it is only in scripture 4 times and always speaks of the Old and New Covenant so it cannot be justified Biblically.
All very easily debunkable. Just have to get out the E-sword (free Bible software download) and do a word search, read each passage in its biblical and historical context and presto, you know what it is saying. If I can do it, anyone can. God is not a respector of persons if someone is really seeking truth and God's holiness.
I just hope some people will start just searching their hearts and asking God to show them if there is anything false in them. As soon as I hear someone say, "we need more than the word of God" I have to question what they are about to say and I think this may be why I originally wrote this article.
God Bless!
:?D
The Sacred Cowtipper (my nickname for newcomers)
Not sure if you fell for this one, but I did for 30 years. The fig tree in Matthew 24:32 IS NOT Israel. How come so many teachers got that wrong? Is it that they don't know what a metaphor or parable is or were they so lazy as to not read the other two synoptic gospels were a tiny detail was given that totally debunks that? That is what I did for decades - GUILTY!
This is called a logical fallacy- what they taught CAN'T be true if it contradicts elsewhere. They will continue to teach that though although some no longer use that passage because guys like me showed them they can't and be honest.
Here it is: Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. Notice in verse 29, that it has that extra part to it -AND ALL THE TREES.
This is so easy to interpret. Jesus is merely saying when you see all of these 20 signs I am giving you here HAPPENING ALL AT THE SAME TIME, it is like a fig tree [which is common in that area] and ALL OF THE OTHER TREES getting their spring flowers, the flowers falling off and the leaves shooting forth. Jesus is saying THE END OF THE AGE and MY RETURN will be in that generation.
He was just making a comparison of natural things around that area. In other words,
20 SIGNS = END OF AGE AND MY RETURN. It is that simple. How they got this fig tree was Israel IN THIS PARTICULAR VERSE, I don't know. Maybe back to that laziness. I was too lazy to study it for myself and just bought it hook, line and sinker when I was taught it but many who didn't study it for themselves. I was brainwashed for 30 years to believe that because I didn't question the teaching.
Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what...
Let's take the fig tree in Matthew 24:32. I wrote an article on it a few years back.
limited on space so I will send in two replies.
Basically, I see Mt 24 account of the Last Days as being directed to Israel & not to the Church; I realize that I'm going 'against the current' on this one, but Jesus' hearers were His disciples, His community: the Jews, & His illustrations (e.g. the Fig tree), pertained to them. I don't see the Church here until the apostles refer to her & her position in those latter days. So in this discourse to His disciples, I see: vv 4-14 shows the time from His Ascension to the Gospel proclamation cut-off time. vv 15-20: Anti-Christ's emerging & his impact on Israel. vv 21-29: the Great Tribulation. vv 30-44: Christ's Second Coming. vv 45-51: Judgement against the unrighteous ones. Even though, the Church can learn much from this chapter, as to her preparedness & watchfulness, I still see this directed solely to Israel & the unbelieving world at large as the Church is not seen here, except for references to her ( Jn 10:16: "the other sheep").
Robert, that's an interesting question: who will repopulate the Earth in the Millennium? You're correct that the "taking away" in verse 39 refers to the wicked of Noah's day, but can that phrase be used in the same way for vv 40, 41?
One could argue, that Noah too was "taken away" from the flood's destructive work on all living, in which case the farmers & mill grinders would experience the same prospect with the righteous one taken & the unrighteous one left. If this understanding is correct, then the unrighteous who are left are those who will continue into the Millennium. And those taken to be with Christ at His Coming are the elect (v 31) (Israel, not Elect because of salvation, but by God's choosing cf v 22) & they along with the raptured Saints (who come with Christ at His Second Coming) will reign with Him through the Millennium.
However, if your understanding is correct, that the unrighteous are the ones referred to in vv 40, 41 who are taken away, then there are the various possibilities, as you suggested, as to who will repopulate the Earth during the Millennium. I couldn't even begin to guess the answer to that one. (onto Page 2.)