People who are not yet believers have their reasoning blinded by sin. They see the world and all of the wonders of creation and are prevented from truly being convinced that God is. It takes the work of God providing grace to unbelievers to open their minds up to understand that creation came about by a powerful Being who existed before there was anything else. God administers this grace by using the truth of Scriptures to change an unbeliever's thoughts and desires about His existence, Who He is, and what He is like. This enlightenment often comes with the realization that God is holy and that the unbeliever is very sinful in comparison. This conviction of sin is a good thing, it leads to desiring God's mercy and this leads one to seek this mercy in the Jesus, who is the Mercy of God. The Gospel brings the reality of the grace and mercy of God one can receive in the Person of Jesus.
So, Sheronda, I can see that it is overwhelmingly common for unbeliever's to not know that God is, and if they do, they refuse to accept Him as the Sovereign of their lives. This does not negate His sovereignty. It just shows that they want a god that they devise rather than the True and Living God of all.
Hello, It still amazes me that people still feel like Gods' existence had to be proven. God superseded the court of law. We only obey the law of the land to maintain his obedience and the prevention of chaos. Present law, like past law, changes based on who is currently in power; which seems to never serve the majority well.
If you go back to the original question that I was answering , you will see that it was about wether we should pray to the saints to ask them for their help . It was not about us , alive Christians praying for each other .
"Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;"
Ephesians 6:19-20
"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."
Colossians 4:2-3
"Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds"
1 Thessalonians 5:25
"Brethren, pray for us (Paul says)."
Acts 12:5
"Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him."
And many many more. If Perer and Paul needed prayers from others how necessary it is for us to pray for each other?
James 5:16
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
You are right saying that the saints are those that have made a covenant with God by sacrifice. Haven't we, christians, made a covenant with God by the sacrifice not of a lamp or a bull but with the sacrifice of God's Lamp, the Son of the God, Jesus Christ? If those who were not sanctified by the Spirit were called saints, how much more appropriate is for us who are baptised in the Spirit to be called so?
Please read how apostle Paul calls the believers in every church he addesses.
i.e. 1 Corinthians 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
Ephesians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"
Colossians 1:2 "To the SAINTS and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
And he calls saints all the LIVING BELIEVERS in all churches he has written letters to. So the saints are God's people from all over the nations through all the ages, dead and alive. GBU
To answer your question, we should let the Bible tell us or define "Who" the "Saints" are. For the Bible says to lean NOT unto thine OWN understanding.
"Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice." Psalms 50:5 KJV
- according to scripture, The Israelites of the Bible are the only nation to make a covenant with God by sacrifice - "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the COVENANT, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words." Exodus 24:8 KJV. Refer to Exodus 24:7 as well as they made a blood in, blood out agreement by the blood of an animal - sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
"He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 148:14 KJV - The word "even" throughout the Bible means "indeed". Knowing this, this is another verse that tells us the "Saints" of the Bible are the Israelites, which is all twelve tribes. The Bible defines itself for the most part if not all parts. Hope this helps, as the scriptures are the truth.
Hello . I don't believe that we are turn to anyone for help in prayer , other than God , through the mediatorship of His Son Jesus Christ , who is our Sinless High Priest in Heaven . You will not find anyone doing that or advocating that in the Bible . Only God can help us , the saints are / were just humans like we are . Only God is all powerful and we should never be afraid to ask for His help . All things are possible with Him .
No passage can be isolated and read alone in scripture; without at least being seriously short as to its full meaning. Ephesians 6 is no exception. It is therefore; no coincidence that the previous chapter discusses the family unit as an example of the structure of the church as well as the rest of the book the concepts of heavenly places.
Verse 9; albeit particularly controversial in today's culture; discusses human masters and compares it to our Master in heaven. This is a key term; almost totally ignored among preachers and laypeople alike in reference to our Lord and Savior. I only know one brother who would routinely pray with that mindset which is truly a sad observation.
Verses 11 through 13 talk about standing in His might. We are reminded of Psalm 1:5 as to the state of the wicked in judgment; surely we also will fall if not fully grounded in the Word.
Verses 14 and 15 bring up both having the truth (as opposed to a false) as a mindset; with verse 15 being prepared to speak the gospel of peace (as we see in 2 Tim. 4:2).
Verse 16 on the shield of faith implies utilizing and TRUSTING in God to get us through all circumstances (see 1 Cor. 10:13; Proverbs 3:5-6). He is able to keep us out of temptations and is trustworthy.
Verse 17 shows us where our headship in Christ also protects us from fatal attack. The Word of God isn't exactly a surprise here as to the only offensive weapon; but greatly compromised among many who endeavor to preach the Gospel. We must meditate on it as well as know how to apply scripture in given situations as the Lord leads us to do ( Mark 13:11).
Verse 18 on gets to the last theme; prayer for the saints including Paul which shows that leadership needs to pray for laypersons and vice versa. This certainly is something that many churches need to address more fully ( James 5:16). I honestly don't know any pastors that have asked for prayer to preach more boldly.
i agree that the bible has never been about logic. Jesus has reasons for all he does he might have done differently that time for a reason the bible says we will never know the reasons for all God does but we do know that the difference in what you say doesn't matter because it is salvation that gets you to heaven not baptism.
Everyone who is a believer has the Holy Spirit within them. He regenerates us and implants faith at the time of conversion so that we can assent to the truth of the gospel and believe in Jesus. therefore, every new believer has the Holy Spirit in them and the Spirit remains within a believer throughout their life of faith in Jesus and on into eternity.
In a court of law Mary the mother of Jesus would be jailed. The account of her pregnancy was also not logical.
In a court of law Jesus saying he was the son of God wasn't logical, apparently, and he was hung on a cross at Calvary. When did the Bible become about logic? I thought it was more about faith God does what he wants either you believe it or not.
Jesus set an EXAMPLE of baptism for us and all three (tri-unity) were there. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all together, at the baptism. Jesus always led by example.
I am not seasoned in the word YET as are most of y'all, but I do know enough to know that the Bible says this;
Revelation 22:18
Revelation 22:19
With emphasis on revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I guess we will just have to differ on this because I do not wish to "x" out commands of Christ to fit a specific narrative about practices in the church we do not know about. Just because the book of Acts has a handful of examples of baptisms being done in Jesus name, we do not know the EXACT words the apostles used in these baptism, nor the practice of the other 12 apostles and hundreds of disciples from the Upper Room Pentecost, nor the leaders of the churches that were planted by the apostles. However, baptismal practices are reflected in the writings of the bishops the apostles appointed over these churches, so I will base my position on the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19, the silence of the epistle writers as to the exact words used in baptisms, and the witness of the writings of the bishops appointed by Paul and John and others. You can think what you wish. I do not wish to comnend on this matter any longer. Have a good day.
What we know, and can prove with scripture, is that there are zero examples of anybody being baptized into the trinity formula of father, son and holy ghost. And there are multiple examples of people being baptized into the Name of Jesus Christ.
On top of THAT, we have this:
"Be it known unto you all, and to all people of Israel, that by the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand before you whole. ... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:10, 12
Pretty strong words there by St. Luke on the subject. I refuse to believe that Luke, or any of the other disciples of Christ, completely ignored a command from Jesus' mouth about how to baptize. And they all baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Do you wish to be right in the eyes of men, ... or do you want to be right in the eyes of God?
"... let God be true, but every man a liar; ..."
Romans 3:4
'father, son and holy ghost' isn't even a proper NAME. It's a general TITLE, and multiple titles at that. Matthew 28:19 does not follow logic, reason NOR scripture as a whole. We are to judge all teachers, as well as scripture itself, BY scripture. The Bible defines, confirms and justifies ITSELF.
In a court of law, the trinity doctrine for baptism would not be found legitimate at all.
One verse containing the words of Jesus is enough for me to believe that the apostles and disciples baptized thousands and thousands. And we do not know exactly how they did from Scripture. But we do know from accounts written by those close to the apostolic times, that they be
Couldn't tell you exactly when, but it is believed by many that the Catholic Church is responsible for changing the baptismal formula. We have one single solitary verse in scripture that states "father, son and holy ghost" in Matthew 28:19, but interestingly all of the descriptions of the actual baptismal events, in the chapters after, use the name of Jesus Christ.
Did Jesus really tell His disciples to do it one way and every one of them completely ignored His Command and did it differently for every baptism ever recorded after in the Bible? Or has somebody changed the verse in Matthew to read something that Jesus never spoke there?
It is a fact that there are no accounts of baptisms anywhere in scripture that use the Trinity formula of 'father, son and holy ghost.'
Hello Lee. If you're referring to Eutychus (from Acts 20:7-12), we don't know anything about him except what is given in that passage. He is not referred to again anywhere else in the Scriptures. He was a young man, a part of the disciples (believers) gathered there in Troas, to listen to the Apostle Paul share from the Word.
Jesus is Lord!
Jesus is Lord!
People who are not yet believers have their reasoning blinded by sin. They see the world and all of the wonders of creation and are prevented from truly being convinced that God is. It takes the work of God providing grace to unbelievers to open their minds up to understand that creation came about by a powerful Being who existed before there was anything else. God administers this grace by using the truth of Scriptures to change an unbeliever's thoughts and desires about His existence, Who He is, and what He is like. This enlightenment often comes with the realization that God is holy and that the unbeliever is very sinful in comparison. This conviction of sin is a good thing, it leads to desiring God's mercy and this leads one to seek this mercy in the Jesus, who is the Mercy of God. The Gospel brings the reality of the grace and mercy of God one can receive in the Person of Jesus.
So, Sheronda, I can see that it is overwhelmingly common for unbeliever's to not know that God is, and if they do, they refuse to accept Him as the Sovereign of their lives. This does not negate His sovereignty. It just shows that they want a god that they devise rather than the True and Living God of all.
Romans 15:30-31
"Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;"
Ephesians 6:19-20
"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."
Colossians 4:2-3
"Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds"
1 Thessalonians 5:25
"Brethren, pray for us (Paul says)."
Acts 12:5
"Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him."
And many many more. If Perer and Paul needed prayers from others how necessary it is for us to pray for each other?
James 5:16
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
GBU
You are right saying that the saints are those that have made a covenant with God by sacrifice. Haven't we, christians, made a covenant with God by the sacrifice not of a lamp or a bull but with the sacrifice of God's Lamp, the Son of the God, Jesus Christ? If those who were not sanctified by the Spirit were called saints, how much more appropriate is for us who are baptised in the Spirit to be called so?
Please read how apostle Paul calls the believers in every church he addesses.
i.e. 1 Corinthians 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
Ephesians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"
Colossians 1:2 "To the SAINTS and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
And he calls saints all the LIVING BELIEVERS in all churches he has written letters to. So the saints are God's people from all over the nations through all the ages, dead and alive. GBU
"Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice." Psalms 50:5 KJV
- according to scripture, The Israelites of the Bible are the only nation to make a covenant with God by sacrifice - "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the COVENANT, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words." Exodus 24:8 KJV. Refer to Exodus 24:7 as well as they made a blood in, blood out agreement by the blood of an animal - sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
"He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 148:14 KJV - The word "even" throughout the Bible means "indeed". Knowing this, this is another verse that tells us the "Saints" of the Bible are the Israelites, which is all twelve tribes. The Bible defines itself for the most part if not all parts. Hope this helps, as the scriptures are the truth.
No passage can be isolated and read alone in scripture; without at least being seriously short as to its full meaning. Ephesians 6 is no exception. It is therefore; no coincidence that the previous chapter discusses the family unit as an example of the structure of the church as well as the rest of the book the concepts of heavenly places.
Verse 9; albeit particularly controversial in today's culture; discusses human masters and compares it to our Master in heaven. This is a key term; almost totally ignored among preachers and laypeople alike in reference to our Lord and Savior. I only know one brother who would routinely pray with that mindset which is truly a sad observation.
Verses 11 through 13 talk about standing in His might. We are reminded of Psalm 1:5 as to the state of the wicked in judgment; surely we also will fall if not fully grounded in the Word.
Verses 14 and 15 bring up both having the truth (as opposed to a false) as a mindset; with verse 15 being prepared to speak the gospel of peace (as we see in 2 Tim. 4:2).
Verse 16 on the shield of faith implies utilizing and TRUSTING in God to get us through all circumstances (see 1 Cor. 10:13; Proverbs 3:5-6). He is able to keep us out of temptations and is trustworthy.
Verse 17 shows us where our headship in Christ also protects us from fatal attack. The Word of God isn't exactly a surprise here as to the only offensive weapon; but greatly compromised among many who endeavor to preach the Gospel. We must meditate on it as well as know how to apply scripture in given situations as the Lord leads us to do ( Mark 13:11).
Verse 18 on gets to the last theme; prayer for the saints including Paul which shows that leadership needs to pray for laypersons and vice versa. This certainly is something that many churches need to address more fully ( James 5:16). I honestly don't know any pastors that have asked for prayer to preach more boldly.
No it is not, for it is Living Word. Be always glad and belive the schripture.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Amen stay blessed in His Holy name Jesus Christ.
i agree that the bible has never been about logic. Jesus has reasons for all he does he might have done differently that time for a reason the bible says we will never know the reasons for all God does but we do know that the difference in what you say doesn't matter because it is salvation that gets you to heaven not baptism.
Everyone who is a believer has the Holy Spirit within them. He regenerates us and implants faith at the time of conversion so that we can assent to the truth of the gospel and believe in Jesus. therefore, every new believer has the Holy Spirit in them and the Spirit remains within a believer throughout their life of faith in Jesus and on into eternity.
In a court of law Jesus saying he was the son of God wasn't logical, apparently, and he was hung on a cross at Calvary. When did the Bible become about logic? I thought it was more about faith God does what he wants either you believe it or not.
Matthew 28:19- (Words of Jesus about baptism)
Matthew 3:13-17
Jesus set an EXAMPLE of baptism for us and all three (tri-unity) were there. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all together, at the baptism. Jesus always led by example.
I am not seasoned in the word YET as are most of y'all, but I do know enough to know that the Bible says this;
Revelation 22:18
Revelation 22:19
With emphasis on revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I guess we will just have to differ on this because I do not wish to "x" out commands of Christ to fit a specific narrative about practices in the church we do not know about. Just because the book of Acts has a handful of examples of baptisms being done in Jesus name, we do not know the EXACT words the apostles used in these baptism, nor the practice of the other 12 apostles and hundreds of disciples from the Upper Room Pentecost, nor the leaders of the churches that were planted by the apostles. However, baptismal practices are reflected in the writings of the bishops the apostles appointed over these churches, so I will base my position on the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19, the silence of the epistle writers as to the exact words used in baptisms, and the witness of the writings of the bishops appointed by Paul and John and others. You can think what you wish. I do not wish to comnend on this matter any longer. Have a good day.
On top of THAT, we have this:
"Be it known unto you all, and to all people of Israel, that by the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand before you whole. ... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:10, 12
Pretty strong words there by St. Luke on the subject. I refuse to believe that Luke, or any of the other disciples of Christ, completely ignored a command from Jesus' mouth about how to baptize. And they all baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Do you wish to be right in the eyes of men, ... or do you want to be right in the eyes of God?
"... let God be true, but every man a liar; ..."
Romans 3:4
'father, son and holy ghost' isn't even a proper NAME. It's a general TITLE, and multiple titles at that. Matthew 28:19 does not follow logic, reason NOR scripture as a whole. We are to judge all teachers, as well as scripture itself, BY scripture. The Bible defines, confirms and justifies ITSELF.
In a court of law, the trinity doctrine for baptism would not be found legitimate at all.
One verse containing the words of Jesus is enough for me to believe that the apostles and disciples baptized thousands and thousands. And we do not know exactly how they did from Scripture. But we do know from accounts written by those close to the apostolic times, that they be
Nih
Did Jesus really tell His disciples to do it one way and every one of them completely ignored His Command and did it differently for every baptism ever recorded after in the Bible? Or has somebody changed the verse in Matthew to read something that Jesus never spoke there?
It is a fact that there are no accounts of baptisms anywhere in scripture that use the Trinity formula of 'father, son and holy ghost.'