Ephesians Chapter 4 Discussion

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  • Pastor Frensley for verse 1
    Ephesians 4:1What does the word vocation mean in this verse?
  • Mishael on Discipleship for verse 1
    Jesus said to His Disciples: Come. Follow Me.

    For all those men it meant giving up everything. Peter was married and had children. Matthew was a prosperous tax collector.

    Not many people in 2020 want to do that. We're not used to giving up anything. Look how we handle loss due to Co-vid.

    If our Churches don't reopen then everyone needs to support a radio, tv, or streaming ministry. God sees. It's all wide open.

    We are to follow Jesus. He can't teach us on the road like he did His disciples. (On job training)

    But we've Got our Bibles! We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. Read Whole Books at a time. Buy a concordance to find things faster.

    Concentrate on how to talk with people about their sins: have you ever told a lie? Stolen something? Coveted your neighbors riding lawn mower? His house? His wife?

    If we even break one commandment, we are guilty of all 10. Sin is supposed to sting like ant bites.

    If you just get a few people saved; you have followed the Master, Jesus.

    Paul was a prisoner because he was a servant of the Lord. Walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called. They had been called to a glorious calling, as he had shown in chapter 3. The Christian has been called to the highest calling with which man has ever been honored.

    Pray to the Lord of the Harvest. To be brought to "divine appointments". Ask the Lord to allow angelic protection and support.

    Pray before you go and pray for everyone you met or prayed for.

    You may meet A "disciple" want to be. Meet them at McDonalds or Taco Bell till you get to know them better. Invite them to church.

    It's good to take a baby lamb to a Pastor/ Shepherd.

    Ask the Holy Spirit to bless your evangelizing work. Thank Him for HELPing you recall scriptures.
  • Jesse for verse 1
    Pastor, you can substitute the vocation with calling. Paul is giving instruction and the call to the Gentiles.

    He says that you walk worthy of the vocation, or calling, wherewith you are called. None of us are worthy from a human standpoint. But the Greek word for worthy means balanced, or equal. You go down to the marketplace and put an item on one of the balances, and you would put money on the other side until it equals out. And that's how much the item is worth, and that's how much you pay for it in the marketplace.

    He's saying live worthy of your calling. This is important for Gentiles. It's our problem more so than the Jews. The Jewish people are already religiously disciplined. Their problem is that they cannot let go of the old religious discipline to function in the newness of the Spirit of God. But they're still disciplined!

    When a Gentile gets saved, the Gentile comes into the church and he only has one focus. I got saved, I'm going to heaven, and I'm spending some fellowship with my brothers and sisters. But Paul says wait a minute, you have to come out of paganism. You can't just bring that into the church and make everything the same.

    So the Gentile has a problem. We have to come out of the pagan lifestyle, out of the old life that we used to live, and walk in a whole new life. Many people are taught that you receive Jesus and you take Him with you as you continue on in your life, instead of receiving Christ and becoming a new creation, leaving off from the old and walking in the new.

    Some in the ministry don't even understand that. They bring paganism, the lifestyle of the Gentiles into the church because the Gentiles won't come unless we have things there for them that they used to have before. Many churches have to bring something into the church in order to keep people entertained, or else they get bored. So they bring the things of the world into the church to attract the Gentile. They won't tell you to repent and leave it behind!
  • Mishael on COLORS ANCESTRY for verse 30
    Just a short addition to why people look different from each other.

    God moulded Adam from dust. If you look at dust under a microscope, there are all colors in the dust.

    Adam, in Hebrew, translates as RED. His color was reddish. I am NOT saying Adam was Native American.

    People these days are the color of their ancestors.

    We don't need to get drawn away by ideas that we need to have white hair like wool, as describes Jesus in Revelation 1.

    Who do we know that LIES continually and is called the Father of Lies in the Bible.

    Satan has used this against mankind since the beginning.

    Look at our society, even planet wide: fighting and killing others who are different from us. It has to stop. Be happy to be a child of God; who accepts us by way of the BLOOD of JESUS.

    Doesn't it make practical sense that if there are 400 hundred (I'm guessing) varieties of roses.... that the same thing happens for humans too ?

    I don't make this stuff up. I PRAY and sit before God, till the answer comes. He doesn't tell me private information ever!

    He cares deeply what people are going through.

    Look at Creation's colors! More beautiful than anything humans can attempt to copy.

    Stop and get before the Lord and ask Him yourself. God called His creation VERY GOOD. Why can't we believe what HE says?
  • Ed Robinson for verse 30
    In my Church we are taught that you can lose your salvation, but others say you can't. What is your opinion? The way that reads it seems my Church is correct.
  • Chris for verse 30
    Page 3.

    I've mentioned the above, not for any other reason but to emphasize that what man sees is not always what God sees. If your pastor/elder or anyone teaches that the saving work of God in a person, through His only Begotten Son, can also make allowance for error in God's election or if the 'saved' person chooses to reject Christ later on, then that can only have merit, if we look at a believer's standing through the eyes of man. Man sees a believer who turns his back to God (i.e. we first see him as a 'productive' Christian & now one living entirely in the flesh), then we say that person has lost his salvation, destined for Hell. God's view is entirely different. Please take time to read Romans 8, & especially focus on verses 29-39 to understand that God makes no mistakes & when we are truly His, we won't even contemplate departing from His great Love & our most Holy Faith.
  • Chris for verse 30
    Page 2.

    And it is the reality of the Holy Spirit's indwelling in our lives that enables us in bringing forth all the Fruit, all of the Graces of Christ, in us for the blessing of many. This indwelling is not just to give us a 'nice feeling' of being loved & blessed by God, but also to give us the power to live a victorious life, of endurance & even to martyrdom. And so when Matthew 10:22, Revelation 3:5 & others, speak of endurance & overcoming to the end, we know that this is the final test of the worth of our salvation experience. All who were martyred: the apostles (except John), Polycarp, Wycliffe, Huss, Tyndale, Bonhoeffer, Elliott & his four friends with him, & countless more through the ages, all demonstrated the reality of their salvation & the cost to love the Lord to the end. When I read that many of them who were put to the burning stake, recited Psalms 51 for focus & strength during that walk to their death, I'm deeply moved by their singular thought to confess any known sin that would impede their abundant entrance into the Lord's presence rather than to the torment that awaited them. And so I ask myself: Would I be able to do the same? I believe that the answer to that is found in the Word: YES, we who are saved will have the Spirit's fortitude to stand confidently. (Acts 7:55.56) shows us Stephen's vision that strengthened him to accept death courageously. (onto Page 3).
  • Chris for verse 30
    Page 1.

    Ed. From my reading of the Scriptures on this matter, I believe that a Christian cannot lose his/her salvation. However, rather than enter debate over this, I always ask the simple question: what is a Christian according to the Bible? This question on the surface may not require too much thought as one could quite simply say, that a Christian is one who has demonstrated faith in the finished Work of Christ on the Cross & has been forgiven on that basis. This statement alone sets him apart from any other religion or philosophy.

    Yet, that person & those around him will generally accept this person as a Christian, but we see that there are checks on the road we travel on, to examine the authenticity of that salvation. So, what I see is that how we look at a claim to be a Christian is not necessarily how God looks at it. We see only as a man sees: a baptism, a changed life, hunger for God & the Word, ministry, evidence of apparent spiritual fruit/gifts, etc. & we praise God for such a life & we are then convinced. Or is being a Christian more than this? Something that most of us have never been tested on are: the matter of endurance, finishing the race, overcoming Satan & possibly martyrdom. These may not be observable traits to us now, but these (& taking the mark of the beast, as Bob pointed out), are what make up the full requirements for being a true follower of Christ. And please note that I'm not adding anything extra to our salvation, but to show that our 'true' salvation also encompasses these other aspects that may only be provable at our journey's end. (onto Page 2).
  • Mishael for verse 30

    Yes there is. No person who has the Holy Spirit in dwelling, can call Jesus accursed.

    They cannot call him Lord either. You have to choose now, whom you will believe.

    Mark 3:29

    But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

    James 2:7

    Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

    Ephesians 4:3

    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    1 Timothy 1:20

    Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    Revelation 13:6

    And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    Mark 3:28

    Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
  • Bob Hilt for verse 30
    Ed - I know we can not "lose" our salvation like you lose your car keys or a wallet.

    However can we throw away our salvation?

    Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    (Seems our names can be BLOTTED out of the book of life)

    Exodus Chapter 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

    32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

    33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

    Jesus in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Why would Jesus say we must endure to the end?)

    Jesus in Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    Revelation Chapter 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    I do not care what sinners prayer anyone says, if they take the mark I believe their are doomed.

    Sadly Millions of Church goers do not believe they will ever have to make this choice to refuse it.
  • Onyekachukwu Ogechi Alaka for verse 26
    Ephesians 4:26. "Be ye angry, & sin not: let not the Sun go down unpon your wrath". He teaches us how to bridle our anger in such a way that, even though our anger is fierce, yet it does not break out, and that it is without delay quenched before we sleep. And this is so that satan may not take occassion to give us evil counsel through the wicked counsellors and destroy us. If it so happens that you are angry, yet do not sin, that is, bridle your anger and do not wickedly do that which you have wickedly conceived. Let not the night come upon you in your anger that is, make atonement quickly for all matters.
  • Leverda Freeman for verse 5

    could someone tell more about John15:1
  • Jesse for verse 5

    John 15:1 says I am the true vine, and the word true means genuine, versus symbolic. I am the genuine vine, and my Father is the husbandman, literally earth-worker, the farmer of the vineyard.

    In the Old Testament, the vine was always used an example of Israel, especially Isaiah Chapter 5 Verses 1 through 7, also known as the song of the vineyard, how that God planted a vineyard and it was the nation Israel. But they grew wild grapes, and thorns grew and God allowed the vineyard to be overrun by the wild animals, and that was the symbol of His judgment against Israel.

    And so when Jesus, now talking to His disciples, He says I am the genuine vine, not the symbolic one of the Old Testament. I am the genuine vine and My Father is the farmer.
  • Godwin Nnah for verse 5
    Just to add to some comments above, regarding Sprinkling & Immersion baptism: Both are processes initiated by the Lord (God / Jesus). The most important thing is your soul and the spirit dwelling in you. In Acts - the jailor and his household (adults & infants) was baptised when instantly when Paul & Silas made him knew they did not ran away from prison. It was not immersion; but was recorded and they gave their lives. The Eunuch with Philip was baptised while on their way (without necessarily passes through church protocols); he gave his life.

    What is important here as a Christian is to recognize your sins, drop them before the Lord. See yourself as an unworthy person who needs mercy from God and who has done something wrong knowingly (as a youth/adult) and unknowingly (as a child/infant/ignorant of the laws); thereby requesting for grace, mercy and compassion from the Lord.

    God has shown his love for man in that while Abraham gave-up Isaac for the sacrifice in obedient to God's demand for testing of his faith, God gave His only begotten Son (born & not created) to save mankind, sending the Holy Spirit to confirm the Son's authority.

    This is why when Christ was baptised, A voice came from heaven (Father) declaring Jesus (His Son), and a dove patched on Jesus (Holy Spirit) to show what is later termed as "Trinity" by the Orthodox churches. We must seek salvation and the door of salvation is always open to them that seeks grace, mercy and God's love. Remain blessed in Jesus Name - Amen.
  • Darin for verse 9
    Before the work of Jesus on the Cross and the resurrection the old testament saints went to paradise in the center of the earth. There are many scriptural references to this fact.

    Thief on the cross Luke 23:43

    Rich man and Lazarus Luke 16:20 through 24

    1 Peter 3:9

    Mathew 12:40
  • Larry Masur for verse 5
    KJV. Ephesians 4:5 One Lord,One faith, One baptism.My question is what is that one baptism?
  • Jesse for verse 5
    Hello Larry,

    Paul says one baptism! He is not talking about sprinkling or immersing. It was Paul who said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12, Verse 13 that we are all baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ.

    It is a Hebrew phrase that Paul used to describe the salvation process, that when the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life, they are cleansed.

    And baptism also means identification. In 1 Corinthians Chapter 10, the people in the wilderness were baptized unto Moses. There wasn't any baptism ceremony. But when they identified with him and went through the Red Sea, they called it baptism. It's identification.

    But there's only one baptism that saves. That's the baptism of God's Spirit. And there's one God, Father of all, who is above all and through all, and in you all.

    Do you get the idea that he's trying to say we're pretty much covered? He's in us, He's through us, and He's around us!
  • Larry Masur for verse 5
    Amen that's a good thing , I guess what I was trying to ask is when you are baptized should you be baptized in the name of the Father in the Son and the Holy Spirit or in the name of Jesus ?
  • He Jesse. This Paul would like to know the meaning of Matthew 28:19-20 with regard to your comment. Thank you.
  • Jesse for verse 5
    Hello Paul,

    Matthew 28:19-20 is speaking of water baptism. However, water baptism does not save a person. There has to be a spiritual baptism or Spiritual birth. Back in Matthew 3:11, John says, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    You see, John baptized with water. But Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Salvation), and with fire. And fire baptism is a baptism of judgment. That's not the baptism we want! A person who gets water baptized should already be saved. Water baptism is a testimony before others that there has been an inward change in their life (Spirit baptism).

    I hope this is what you are asking. If, not I would be happy to respond back if you're looking for something else.
  • Thank you for your reply. I may have misunderstood. Do you believe that water baptism is a necessity?
  • Jesse for verse 5
    Hi Paul, my answer would remain the same if we are asking if water baptism is a necessity for salvation. I would still say it is not necessary because water baptism comes after salvation.

    I believe a person who is saved can go their entire life not being water baptized and still remain saved. We know from scripture that Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that today you will be with me in paradise. There is no biblical evidence showing that he was water baptized.

    Now, is it a necessity after salvation? I think water baptism is very important for a believer. The early church seemed to see it as being important. The Jews ceremoniously baptized everything, pots and pans, dishes, etc. I think it is important to understand what water baptism represented to the Jews, and also to the early church. It represented two things: cleansing (not salvation), and also identification.

    Being water baptized is required in a lot of churches in order to become a member of that particular group. Again, it represents your identification with that group of believers. But the most important representation of water baptism would be your identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's who we identify with in baptism, and that is our testimony to those who are there as witnesses that we are identifying with Jesus Christ. The water baptism is a Physical outward expression of an inward Spiritual change. I believe it is a necessary part of a believer's life, but not required for salvation.
  • Thank you Jesse. You are saying that the baptism mentioned in 1 Pe. 3:21 does not need to be a matter of public record. Is this correct?
  • Mishael for verse 5
    PAUL: Did you get my reply couple of days ago about Matter?
  • Yes, as a 'matter' of fact I did. However, there is something wrong with the link. I cannot review it. However, I would say that in the absence of matter, time is irrelevant. An abstraction.
  • Jesse for verse 5
    Paul , I think we might be disconnecting somehow and I'm probably not being clear in response. If so, I apologize for that. There are two baptisms, one physical (Human), and one from God (Spiritual). Only one is for salvation, and the other would be for public record, as a testimony of salvation.

    1 Peter 3:21 is not referring to water baptism. Peter is quick to tell us that he's not talking about water baptism. Peter says (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God). Your conscience is clear, and you're living as He would have you to do. And then it says by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. More literally, it is through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    That gives us the key because it says whereunto even baptism now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So he's talking about Spirit baptism. It's the only one in the bible that says it is necessary for salvation.

    Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:13 says for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, and we have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    When John the Baptist introduced Jesus as Messiah to Israel, he said that the Messiah's ministry would be the baptism of Spirit and fire.

    Remember, baptism denotes two things, 1) Cleansing. If you are Spirit baptized, that is, when Christ comes into your spirit at salvation, your spirit is purified, cleansed of your sin. 2) Identification. It was more so in Paul's day than in ours. Whatever group you're going into, you get baptized. It shows that you're joining the group. But especially for Hebrew and Jewish people in Jerusalem that surrendered their life to Christ as their Messiah and Savior, they get baptized right there in Jerusalem, right in front of all the other Hebrew and Jewish people to show their identification.

    If you are asking me if you should be water baptized, I would ask what is the Lord leading you to do. That would be the answer!
  • Thank you again! Question. With regard to Matthew 28:19-20, how do men baptize men?
  • Jesse for verse 5

    I am not sure I understand your question?
  • Kenneth Redden for verse 5
    I would say that our life Today, is the reason for the baptism in Matthew 28:19-20.
  • Hi Jesse. I understand you believe that water baptism is not necessary for salvation. That it is baptism by God through Holy Spirit that IS necessary. Wouldn't this take man out of the equation at Matthew 28:19-20? After all, it is the MEN that are making the disciples by means OF baptism. Or are you thinking that whether or not their baptism provides salvation is a matter to be determined by God? Thank you. Paul

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