Just wondering how you posted this if you don't have internet? Never mind, it don't matter. Tell your kid that the rapture is like magic but not magic. It will be like one second you are here, doing what ever you are doing and then, "Poof.", you are in paradise.
I've found good Bibles at Goodwill or Walmart. Try to get a King James Version or a NIV or NKJV.
The world is experiencing many of the SIGNS mentioned in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Fires, earthquakes, economy collapse, riots and wars; pandemics. You have a wise child.
Time of the end
Luke 21:11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies (I.e. Syria, Iran, Russia, China) you will know that its desolation is near.
Luke 21:24-28 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the TIMES Of The Gentiles ARE FULFILLED
25 "There will be SIGNS in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.
26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your REDEMPTION is drawing near.
32 "Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS will never pass away.
34 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap.
35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
36 Be always on the WATCH and PRAY that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man (Jesus). Be born again now. John 3, John 3:16
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 would be a very good starting point. 4:16 says that we who are alive and remain will be "caught up" together with them in the clouds. These two words "caught up" are where we get the word Rapture from.
Hope this helps some with your son. I'm currently studying this subject along with prophecy so if I can be of help just say so.
Thank you for your kind response, Gracelyn. However, my Page 3 which you've read, seems to have isolated itself from my other two pages, which are much lower in this thread. Don't know whether you managed to see those which tie up with my response. Sorry about the scattering of this comment to Lynn.
Karen, I don't read or refer to Ecclesiasticus (Ben Sira), however, there is similar verse in Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
To read that the LORD makes peace and creates evil can be disturbing to us. I checked on the Hebrew word for Evil as written in this verse: it is 'ra:'. And this speaks not of sin as we understand sin, but of 'adversity or calamity', as when 'evil (a calamity, suffering) may come upon us. So does God even do evil or want to do this to us? Well, He does, in a sense. In this context, it shows that when there is absence of Peace, whether in a person's heart or in worldly affairs, then there must be adversity. A little like Truth & Lies (they are 'absolutes'): if the Truth is not spoken, then the words must be a lie - and there cannot be a mix of Truth & Lies - then it's no longer Truth. So to, the presence of Peace cancels out 'evil'. So the opposite is true: if there is adversity, then no peace.
So we can't understand this verse as God making it a point to create adversity (evil) for us, rather, that in the absence of His Peace, He permits adversity to be present. It seems to be our choice: if His Peace reigns in us, then no spiritual or emotional calamity will be ours. If we sin, if we're disobedient to His Spirit, then the result is turmoil within.
Our sin nature will be with us till death just as a new baby from birth has the sin nature even though no sin has been committed. The baby's first & succeeding sins prove the existence of that nature, for without it, it cannot sin. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, it was Satan's attempt to give Jesus a sin nature & that could have happened if Jesus even slightly stumbled by wanting to satisfy his appetite after that long Fast. Yet, He retorted immediately to Satan not even considering His hunger thereby proving in sinlessness & Sonship & being the fully acceptable Sacrifice for each one of us.
Hi Lynn. Thanks for your two pages & I'll deal with three points:
a. "No Covenant Law, No sin." What happens to Gentiles who have neither received nor are under Covenant Law, as the Law was given to Israel only - & this was one of the markers that made them God's people?
b. "Sin is defined by the Old Covenant Law." Sin might have been defined by the Old Covenant Law, but at the advent of Christ & in His Ministry, He redefined it giving its full God-intended meaning & force. So, what is Sin? Maybe a simplistic question, but there's a possibility that we don't understand what sin entails. Is sin then only a breaking of the Law as given to Israel or is there more to it?
c. "Our old man, old nature, is nailed to the cross with Jesus". Herein is our problem: you say that our old nature was nailed to the Cross. I believe it was our sin that Christ bore on Himself, thereby permitting God to forgive us, cleanse us & make us acceptable to Him.
1 Peter 2:24: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." I think you're seeing our sinful nature & our sins as interchangeable words, however, I don't see that our sinful nature is ever removed, only our sins forgiven & we're justified ('just if I'd' never sinned). If our sin nature is removed, as you believe, then there will be no evidence of sin ever occurring in our new life (which you also believe). Yet, not a day can go by without sin raising its ugly head in every believer thereby proving that we are still sinners.
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour."
"If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes."
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,"
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
My Testimony is posted on this site. You are in my prayers. God Bless you.
Lynn, the Holy Spirit has graced you with spiritual knowledge, may the Spirit grace us with his words. I John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is (the child) of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose the Son of Man was manifested, that he might destroy the works (unbelief) of the devil. (vs) 9 Whosoever is born (of the Spirit) of God doth not commit sin (live in unbelief); for his seed (Holy Spirit) remaineth in him and he cannot sin (live in unbelief), because he is born (of the Spirit) of God. Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in the mind of Christ Jesus: (vs) 6 Who (Christ), being in the form (image) of (the Spirit of) God, thought it not robbery to be equal with (the Spirit of) God (does God sin). John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had healed on the sabbath, but said that (the Spirit of) God was his Father (who is your Father), making him equal with (the Spirit of) God (does God live in unbelief). Amos 4:13 He that formeth the mountains, and created the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought....... Psalms 92:4-6 For thou Lord, has made me glad through thy works: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. (vs) 5 O Lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep. (vs) 6 A brutish man (beast) knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.
Hello John, I see now what you are saying. I suppose if one is in court and lies under oath they could land in jail
However, when it comes to the Old Covenant Law IF one eats pig it's a sin. And we know that outside that Law, we can eat all the bbq ribs we want and it's not a crime. This is why I say one must have a clear understanding of how the Old Covenant Law defines sin and what the difference is between that Law and the law of the land.
And yes, I do understand completely the difference between crime and sin. I know that IF I were to break the law of the land it would be a crime and IF I were to break God's Law it would be a sin. However, the cross frees us from God's Old Covenant Law meaning that frees us from what Paul calls the law of sin and death.
Once freed from the Old Covenant Law, the law of sin and death, God then writes His New Covenant Law in the heart and mind, which is the law of faith In Christ Jesus The New Covenant Law has nothing whatsoever to do with sin.
If you believe you were insulted by any of the words you heard me say, that simply says to me that God's Word hit a sore spot, and I call that a good thing because it will be a learning experience, if not today, sometime in the future, because I believe His Word never returns void
The words you hear from me come from a member of the Body of Christ. When I was trapped in religion I used to call myself a Christian The new me has been delivered from religion.
As time goes on, hopefully you will discover that the religious world is trapped in the belief that they and all others are sinners. This belief is a mockery to what Jesus performed at the cross. Sad to say!
I personally see the vast majority of Christians as dead IN sin instead of dead TO sin.
I really do not care what they do in life as long as they do not try to convince me that they are someone more special to God than others are. Whatever they do is between them and their god. Lynn
me: commit adultery, fornication, lies, deceit, and all kinds of other legal sins,
you: I have already explained that anyone that does these types of actions will be considered a criminal according to the law of the land in which they live and they will be tried by the court and pay the penalty and that could result as life in prison or the electric chair.
I gave specific examples of sin that are not illegal, but you then falsely claimed that they are illegal. Do you understand the difference between a crime and a sin?
you: you have no understanding of the finished work of the cross Lynn
Insults aren't what I would expect to hear from a Christian. Do you consider yourself a Christian? If so who is your pastor or the source of your assumption that sin doesn't exist and how do you reconcile with so many other parts of the Bible saying it does exist, including after Jesus died on the cross?
So, do you recommend Christians to commit affairs and sexual sin since that isn't a crime and since 'sin doesn't exist'? If your partner cheated on you would you be fine with it? It wouldn't hurt you, since it's not a crime and 'not a sin' according to you, right?
Lynn, I see in this thread people have asked you very relevant and important questions and from what I see you have dodged and avoided answering all of them. Someone secure in what they believe should not be afraid to answer questions about what they believe. Truth can handle close inspection under a bright spotlight. Lies cannot handle it. It's also apparent how others use lots of scripture references from the Bible, whereas, from what I see you have only cited one from Romans 6 and cherry picked the middle then twisted it to fit your interpretation. Even other verses in the same chapter contradict it. We all know what force is truly behind someone others that sin doesn't exist, and it is not God. Have you prayed to God about this and asked for confirmation if your interpretation is true?
It appears to me that you have a different interpretation of what sin actually is. Do you belong to a particular religion?
From the words you speak, it shows a lack of understanding in what it is to be led of the Spirit of God.
Your words also show that you have a lack of knowledge understanding exactly how one becomes a sinner and how one becomes freed from being a sinner.
Being in a physical body gives everyone the ability to be servants of God. Being in a physical body does not mean it automatically believes one is a sinner.
We all say and do exactly what God has us all saying and doing at all times.
The words you speak shows to me exactly how you stand with God. I believe all one must do is stand in front of a mirror and if that person believes they and all others are sinners that person looking back at them is a satan.
God uses both good and evil to advance His Kingdom. If and or when I see someone doing what I believe is evil, that does not necessarily mean what that person is doing is evil in the eyes of God.
When the day comes that you receive an understanding of the finished work of the cross and believe it, that is the day that God will begin emptying the old knowledge out of your system and begin filling it with His knowledge perfecting you for His work.
Being humble is knowing and understanding what it is to be a servant of the Holy and the Living God and Jesus Christ.
Please forgive me but your belief in the "power of Christ", in you, is in no way what His power is. You seem to be making up the assumption that you cannot sin anymore. Are you still in a physical body? Do you still have to eat and sleep and go to the bathroom? These are physical things not spiritual. You are still here and you can still sin. The fight is not over until your last breath. Which is to strive to live in the Spirit, inside you, and produce fruit that is pleasing to God. If you truly love God with all your heart would you not strive to do what makes Him happy? This is not to think you can't sin anymore and just do whatever you want, to make yourself happy, and say "I'm dead to the law". This is how satan want's you to think not God.
Galatians 5:16-26 goes over this quiet well. Giving a big list of "works" of the flesh to stay away from. As there are more also. Then giving a list of the fruit of the Holy Spirit being love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. As there are also more. Then saying "against such there is no law." There is no law to one living by the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Not just making up your own thoughts on what is truly right and wrong. Is it right to God is what we should be seeking because that is what makes Him happy.
Do you think it's ok for people to just be having rampant sexual relations, women getting pregnant, and then just having abortions? Do you think God would be more pleased in people with self control or those who can't stop going after their bodily lusts getting women pregnant on accident?
Yes Christ died for all our sins and He can forgive anyone of anything. But not so you can just keep sinning and think it's ok. That is taking His gift, Jesus Christ, in vain. The only time you are truly going to be dead to sin is when your life here ends. Sin runs rampant on this earth or just call it evil, bad or wrong. Resist the devil.
I have already explained that anyone that does these types of actions will be considered a criminal according to the law of the land in which they live and they will be tried by the court and pay the penalty and that could result as life in prison or the electric chair.
I would suggest that you spend some time discussing the way you interpret the bible with God and IF you're lucky He might teach you a thing or two, because it's responses like you just made that show perfectly that you have no understanding of the finished work of the cross Lynn
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
That's exciting news, so now everyone tonight can commit adultery, fornication, lies, deceit, and all kinds of other legal sins, because someone said it's not actually 'sin'. How exciting this must be that you can get away with all this, and not's not 'evil' either, because it's not illegal. Satan could not be more proud of your interpretation.
This is a joke. Jesus clearly said to not sin. If sin didn't exist then he would not have talked about it so much. And for those who claim 'well, that was before he died'. No, Jesus appeared and spoke to people after too. It's no surprise that satan is going around deceiving Christians into believing sin doesn't even exist. That has satan written all over it. Hell is real and I don't want to go there, but if someone does then yes, keep justifying evil. The Bible throughout says the opposite of this heresy.
You are right in showing that Jesus's resurrection from the dead was to show God's FULL acceptance of the sacrifice He sent His Son to perform.
FULL sacrifice means we were/are FULLY freed from sin and God's new plan for mankind begins.
The focus must be taken off the old life and put on the new life In Christ.
Think of it as a computer that becomes filled with data that we no longer have a need for. Think of wiping that computer clean and refilling it with all new data.
Out with the old, In with the new.
Jesus spoke a parable about New Wine saying New Wine must be put in new bottles. This is what happens with us, new wine is put into new bottles.
You are correct in saying this is FULL Justification from sin IF we believe on Him that raised up our Lord from the dead. It must be understood that God sees all those that believe they and others, since the cross as sinners, are dead IN sin.
One is either dead IN sin or alive In Christ. No sitting on the fence here.
I see all those that are still dead IN sin as walking zombies not really knowing their left hand from the right.
I could give you a ton of bible verses but the good thing about having the New Covenant written in the heart and mind is, God just has us speak the words He wants us to speak and lets the chips fall where they may
It took awhile for me to understand freedom from sin, so I understand why you see sin the way you do. Let me try and simplify this.
Sin is defined by the Old Covenant Law. When we believed we were sinners, it meant we believed that either the whole Old Covenant Law or parts of that Law applied to us. There is absolutely no way anyone is able to keep that Law without breaking it. That is the way God designed it, in order to fulfill His future plan of creating what Paul calls "new creatures In Christ".
Now, if one believes any part of that Law applies to them, it means they are "dead IN sin" and need to be freed from that Law. The cross frees us from that Law. Once freed that means we are "dead TO sin". In other words, No Covenant Law, No sin.
Our old man, old nature, is nailed to the cross with Jesus because he died in "our" place so we must see our old selves dying on that cross with Jesus. Once we understand the old self/old nature dying and see the new man/new creature In Christ being raised from the dead is when we see "sinless perfection" via Christ now dwelling in us. When we have arrived at the point of understanding our dying and resurrection from sin, via the cross, God then writes His New Covenant in our hearts and minds.
This means the Old Covenant that caused us to be sinners has been taken away and the New Covenant that has us sinfree has begun It's work in our new lives In Christ.
No Old Covenant, No sin New Covenant, Sinfree.
This was longer had to cut it short to fit in. will send a second post soon. Lynn
Just two comments Lynn. You state: "(sinless Perfection) simply means one is now "righteous" in the eyes of God, in other words, sin free." You equate 'righteousness' with 'being without sin'. I see 'righteousness' as being in 'right standing before God' & not freedom from the sin nature. And this standing is based on what Christ has accomplished at the Cross & our response to Him and not based on our own righteousness. The Cross can only be the means by which God could forgive man his sins, give him a 'new heart & new Spirit', and thus declare man not guilty in his standing before Him. Therefore the saying, "we are sinners saved by grace" appears most apt as it declares that the sin nature remains in us (of course proof given in our ability to still sin), yet it was God's Grace that came to our rescue to provide the basis for our forgiveness, which we were unable to provide. His Grace poured out does not make us 'sinless' but that we ARE STILL sinners yet accepted by Him in spite of being so, having been renewed & our affections no longer set on earthly things.
Secondly, you wrote: "The cross was far more than a payment for sins", but you spoke of Jesus' resurrection making "it possible for us to be resurrected from that old life". I see what you're getting at, but Jesus' resurrection from the dead, in theological terms, was specifically to show God's full acceptance of the Sacrifice ( Rom 1:4: "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead). And also by the full justification of the sinner: ( Rom 4:24, 25: "(righteousness) will be imputed if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.")
Christ's crucifixion was purely a Redemptive, Substitutionary work on our behalf just as God's justification of us & acceptance of Jesus' Sacrifice were the result of Jesus' Resurrection.
The world is experiencing many of the SIGNS mentioned in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Fires, earthquakes, economy collapse, riots and wars; pandemics. You have a wise child.
Time of the end
Luke 21:11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies (I.e. Syria, Iran, Russia, China) you will know that its desolation is near.
Luke 21:24-28 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the TIMES Of The Gentiles ARE FULFILLED
25 "There will be SIGNS in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.
26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your REDEMPTION is drawing near.
32 "Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS will never pass away.
34 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap.
35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
36 Be always on the WATCH and PRAY that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man (Jesus). Be born again now. John 3, John 3:16
Mishael
Hope this helps some with your son. I'm currently studying this subject along with prophecy so if I can be of help just say so.
My eight-year-old son is enquiring about the rapture I have no idea how to explain it Can you help me
To read that the LORD makes peace and creates evil can be disturbing to us. I checked on the Hebrew word for Evil as written in this verse: it is 'ra:'. And this speaks not of sin as we understand sin, but of 'adversity or calamity', as when 'evil (a calamity, suffering) may come upon us. So does God even do evil or want to do this to us? Well, He does, in a sense. In this context, it shows that when there is absence of Peace, whether in a person's heart or in worldly affairs, then there must be adversity. A little like Truth & Lies (they are 'absolutes'): if the Truth is not spoken, then the words must be a lie - and there cannot be a mix of Truth & Lies - then it's no longer Truth. So to, the presence of Peace cancels out 'evil'. So the opposite is true: if there is adversity, then no peace.
So we can't understand this verse as God making it a point to create adversity (evil) for us, rather, that in the absence of His Peace, He permits adversity to be present. It seems to be our choice: if His Peace reigns in us, then no spiritual or emotional calamity will be ours. If we sin, if we're disobedient to His Spirit, then the result is turmoil within.
Our sin nature will be with us till death just as a new baby from birth has the sin nature even though no sin has been committed. The baby's first & succeeding sins prove the existence of that nature, for without it, it cannot sin. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, it was Satan's attempt to give Jesus a sin nature & that could have happened if Jesus even slightly stumbled by wanting to satisfy his appetite after that long Fast. Yet, He retorted immediately to Satan not even considering His hunger thereby proving in sinlessness & Sonship & being the fully acceptable Sacrifice for each one of us.
Hi Lynn. Thanks for your two pages & I'll deal with three points:
a. "No Covenant Law, No sin." What happens to Gentiles who have neither received nor are under Covenant Law, as the Law was given to Israel only - & this was one of the markers that made them God's people?
b. "Sin is defined by the Old Covenant Law." Sin might have been defined by the Old Covenant Law, but at the advent of Christ & in His Ministry, He redefined it giving its full God-intended meaning & force. So, what is Sin? Maybe a simplistic question, but there's a possibility that we don't understand what sin entails. Is sin then only a breaking of the Law as given to Israel or is there more to it?
c. "Our old man, old nature, is nailed to the cross with Jesus". Herein is our problem: you say that our old nature was nailed to the Cross. I believe it was our sin that Christ bore on Himself, thereby permitting God to forgive us, cleanse us & make us acceptable to Him.
1 Peter 2:24: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." I think you're seeing our sinful nature & our sins as interchangeable words, however, I don't see that our sinful nature is ever removed, only our sins forgiven & we're justified ('just if I'd' never sinned). If our sin nature is removed, as you believe, then there will be no evidence of sin ever occurring in our new life (which you also believe). Yet, not a day can go by without sin raising its ugly head in every believer thereby proving that we are still sinners.
Just some passages from the Bible for you:
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour."
"If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes."
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,"
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
My Testimony is posted on this site. You are in my prayers. God Bless you.
However, when it comes to the Old Covenant Law IF one eats pig it's a sin. And we know that outside that Law, we can eat all the bbq ribs we want and it's not a crime. This is why I say one must have a clear understanding of how the Old Covenant Law defines sin and what the difference is between that Law and the law of the land.
And yes, I do understand completely the difference between crime and sin. I know that IF I were to break the law of the land it would be a crime and IF I were to break God's Law it would be a sin. However, the cross frees us from God's Old Covenant Law meaning that frees us from what Paul calls the law of sin and death.
Once freed from the Old Covenant Law, the law of sin and death, God then writes His New Covenant Law in the heart and mind, which is the law of faith In Christ Jesus The New Covenant Law has nothing whatsoever to do with sin.
If you believe you were insulted by any of the words you heard me say, that simply says to me that God's Word hit a sore spot, and I call that a good thing because it will be a learning experience, if not today, sometime in the future, because I believe His Word never returns void
The words you hear from me come from a member of the Body of Christ. When I was trapped in religion I used to call myself a Christian The new me has been delivered from religion.
As time goes on, hopefully you will discover that the religious world is trapped in the belief that they and all others are sinners. This belief is a mockery to what Jesus performed at the cross. Sad to say!
I personally see the vast majority of Christians as dead IN sin instead of dead TO sin.
I really do not care what they do in life as long as they do not try to convince me that they are someone more special to God than others are. Whatever they do is between them and their god. Lynn
you: I have already explained that anyone that does these types of actions will be considered a criminal according to the law of the land in which they live and they will be tried by the court and pay the penalty and that could result as life in prison or the electric chair.
I gave specific examples of sin that are not illegal, but you then falsely claimed that they are illegal. Do you understand the difference between a crime and a sin?
you: you have no understanding of the finished work of the cross Lynn
Insults aren't what I would expect to hear from a Christian. Do you consider yourself a Christian? If so who is your pastor or the source of your assumption that sin doesn't exist and how do you reconcile with so many other parts of the Bible saying it does exist, including after Jesus died on the cross?
So, do you recommend Christians to commit affairs and sexual sin since that isn't a crime and since 'sin doesn't exist'? If your partner cheated on you would you be fine with it? It wouldn't hurt you, since it's not a crime and 'not a sin' according to you, right?
It appears to me that you have a different interpretation of what sin actually is. Do you belong to a particular religion?
From the words you speak, it shows a lack of understanding in what it is to be led of the Spirit of God.
Your words also show that you have a lack of knowledge understanding exactly how one becomes a sinner and how one becomes freed from being a sinner.
Being in a physical body gives everyone the ability to be servants of God. Being in a physical body does not mean it automatically believes one is a sinner.
We all say and do exactly what God has us all saying and doing at all times.
The words you speak shows to me exactly how you stand with God. I believe all one must do is stand in front of a mirror and if that person believes they and all others are sinners that person looking back at them is a satan.
God uses both good and evil to advance His Kingdom. If and or when I see someone doing what I believe is evil, that does not necessarily mean what that person is doing is evil in the eyes of God.
When the day comes that you receive an understanding of the finished work of the cross and believe it, that is the day that God will begin emptying the old knowledge out of your system and begin filling it with His knowledge perfecting you for His work.
Being humble is knowing and understanding what it is to be a servant of the Holy and the Living God and Jesus Christ.
Good luck on your journey to the cross. Lynn
Galatians 5:16-26 goes over this quiet well. Giving a big list of "works" of the flesh to stay away from. As there are more also. Then giving a list of the fruit of the Holy Spirit being love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. As there are also more. Then saying "against such there is no law." There is no law to one living by the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Not just making up your own thoughts on what is truly right and wrong. Is it right to God is what we should be seeking because that is what makes Him happy.
Do you think it's ok for people to just be having rampant sexual relations, women getting pregnant, and then just having abortions? Do you think God would be more pleased in people with self control or those who can't stop going after their bodily lusts getting women pregnant on accident?
Yes Christ died for all our sins and He can forgive anyone of anything. But not so you can just keep sinning and think it's ok. That is taking His gift, Jesus Christ, in vain. The only time you are truly going to be dead to sin is when your life here ends. Sin runs rampant on this earth or just call it evil, bad or wrong. Resist the devil.
Being humble is meekness and humility.
Nice job.. Well done! Lynn
Now, this is what I see as a walking zombie
I have already explained that anyone that does these types of actions will be considered a criminal according to the law of the land in which they live and they will be tried by the court and pay the penalty and that could result as life in prison or the electric chair.
I would suggest that you spend some time discussing the way you interpret the bible with God and IF you're lucky He might teach you a thing or two, because it's responses like you just made that show perfectly that you have no understanding of the finished work of the cross Lynn
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
This is a joke. Jesus clearly said to not sin. If sin didn't exist then he would not have talked about it so much. And for those who claim 'well, that was before he died'. No, Jesus appeared and spoke to people after too. It's no surprise that satan is going around deceiving Christians into believing sin doesn't even exist. That has satan written all over it. Hell is real and I don't want to go there, but if someone does then yes, keep justifying evil. The Bible throughout says the opposite of this heresy.
You are right in showing that Jesus's resurrection from the dead was to show God's FULL acceptance of the sacrifice He sent His Son to perform.
FULL sacrifice means we were/are FULLY freed from sin and God's new plan for mankind begins.
The focus must be taken off the old life and put on the new life In Christ.
Think of it as a computer that becomes filled with data that we no longer have a need for. Think of wiping that computer clean and refilling it with all new data.
Out with the old, In with the new.
Jesus spoke a parable about New Wine saying New Wine must be put in new bottles. This is what happens with us, new wine is put into new bottles.
You are correct in saying this is FULL Justification from sin IF we believe on Him that raised up our Lord from the dead. It must be understood that God sees all those that believe they and others, since the cross as sinners, are dead IN sin.
One is either dead IN sin or alive In Christ. No sitting on the fence here.
I see all those that are still dead IN sin as walking zombies not really knowing their left hand from the right.
I could give you a ton of bible verses but the good thing about having the New Covenant written in the heart and mind is, God just has us speak the words He wants us to speak and lets the chips fall where they may
Have a great day. Lynn
It took awhile for me to understand freedom from sin, so I understand why you see sin the way you do. Let me try and simplify this.
Sin is defined by the Old Covenant Law. When we believed we were sinners, it meant we believed that either the whole Old Covenant Law or parts of that Law applied to us. There is absolutely no way anyone is able to keep that Law without breaking it. That is the way God designed it, in order to fulfill His future plan of creating what Paul calls "new creatures In Christ".
Now, if one believes any part of that Law applies to them, it means they are "dead IN sin" and need to be freed from that Law. The cross frees us from that Law. Once freed that means we are "dead TO sin". In other words, No Covenant Law, No sin.
Our old man, old nature, is nailed to the cross with Jesus because he died in "our" place so we must see our old selves dying on that cross with Jesus. Once we understand the old self/old nature dying and see the new man/new creature In Christ being raised from the dead is when we see "sinless perfection" via Christ now dwelling in us. When we have arrived at the point of understanding our dying and resurrection from sin, via the cross, God then writes His New Covenant in our hearts and minds.
This means the Old Covenant that caused us to be sinners has been taken away and the New Covenant that has us sinfree has begun It's work in our new lives In Christ.
No Old Covenant, No sin New Covenant, Sinfree.
This was longer had to cut it short to fit in. will send a second post soon. Lynn
Secondly, you wrote: "The cross was far more than a payment for sins", but you spoke of Jesus' resurrection making "it possible for us to be resurrected from that old life". I see what you're getting at, but Jesus' resurrection from the dead, in theological terms, was specifically to show God's full acceptance of the Sacrifice ( Rom 1:4: "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead). And also by the full justification of the sinner: ( Rom 4:24, 25: "(righteousness) will be imputed if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.")
Christ's crucifixion was purely a Redemptive, Substitutionary work on our behalf just as God's justification of us & acceptance of Jesus' Sacrifice were the result of Jesus' Resurrection.