Although there are many references to the Rapture (some pre-tribulational) by published works before his time, we simply do not know if John Nelson Darby was influenced by these works. His writings articulating a pre-tribulation Rapture should not be minimized but fully appreciated. We are indebted to him for his enormous contribution to the subject, setting it forth in a clearer way to a wider 19th-century audience and beyond. Darby did not invent this teaching, nor did the many who taught it prior to his time. He taught it, and they taught it, because the Bible teaches it.
What some fail to take in consideration is some of the early church was being persecuted and thought they were already in the tribulation as Paul emphasized in his writings.
There also early writings that were never translated.
We can't Google search what we think the early church believed and (Shape) our doctrine accordingly and yet when asked to bring forth scripture you can't properly do so.
This type of negligence can hinder growth and it will show up in your theology.
When truly studying Gods word our theology should shape our eschatology, Not our eschatology shape our theology.
As you suggested, using Google is not a good way to prove a doctrine.
However, as you have done here, we can use an internet search to find our more about what history shows us from the time of the apostles up to now.
I have read all 9 posts and have replied to some. I don't think that you have proven that more than few isolated people believed in pre-trib rapture over the course of Christian history. Some of your citations do not speak to a pre-trib rature, but to the one and only Second coming of Jesus after the tribulation. So I am unconvinced by your reasoning here. I continue to hold to the post-tribulation second coming of Jesus and the one and only resurrection and glorification of believers bodies at that time. I believe the trumpet call in Mat. 24:29-31; Rev. 11:15; 1 Thess 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:51 all refer to the same trumpet call-the seventh and last trumpet that bring an end to the Tribulation and the beginning of Jesus' reign with the saints.
Thanks for taking the time to bring these posts forward. As I said to Chris, I don't prefer to address eschatology because it usually brings division. And I gave my reasons for responding to this thread also. I do not wish to continue to hash this out. I respect your right to your viewpoint, and I hope you will respect my right as well.
Every bit of what I just posted was off the Internet.
I was on my way to the airport and I forgot to give the purpose or exercise I was trying to display.
You can get arguments for each side on the internet.
This is not to authenticate a view.
But this is to show the internet is not the way to go on this topic.
Why not break down scripture when you reprove someone, you might help them that way.
But if you say, "They didn't hold that view in the early church then it shows you don't trust your own studies or haven't studied "SCRIPTURE". There's a different in studying doctrine and studying scripture.
I must say that you do not know what I know of Scripture, nor do you know how I form my beliefs. But you have assumed that I first have a doctrine and then search the Scriptures to prove it. That is not true of me.
I also do not intend to reprove anyone. I just wish to present my viewpoint and to respond to others stating why I disagree.
I believe that you are a serious Christian who loves the Word, studies it, forms your beliefs by it, and lives it out in you life. So am I that way. I ask you to believe this about me also.
For now I wish to leave this conversation, if I may. But perhaps I will respond to something someone writes. As you may know, I usually do not lead out with a post starting a new thread. I usually respond to what others say.
I want to have healthy conversations with others by being respectful, earnest, truthful, thoughtful, and helpful. So, we shall see how the Lord leads me from this post forward.
Have a good nights rest. It is late here on the west coast, so you are probably snoozing. I tried to get to the snoozing part, but couldn't. So, I got up and came here. Off to bed again. Hope I can sleep well. Been having sleep difficulties since my hand surgery 2/2. I hope I can overcome this soon.
Appreciating Darby's Contribution.
Although there are many references to the Rapture (some pre-tribulational) by published works before his time, we simply do not know if John Nelson Darby was influenced by these works. His writings articulating a pre-tribulation Rapture should not be minimized but fully appreciated. We are indebted to him for his enormous contribution to the subject, setting it forth in a clearer way to a wider 19th-century audience and beyond. Darby did not invent this teaching, nor did the many who taught it prior to his time. He taught it, and they taught it, because the Bible teaches it.
What some fail to take in consideration is some of the early church was being persecuted and thought they were already in the tribulation as Paul emphasized in his writings.
There also early writings that were never translated.
We can't Google search what we think the early church believed and (Shape) our doctrine accordingly and yet when asked to bring forth scripture you can't properly do so.
This type of negligence can hinder growth and it will show up in your theology.
When truly studying Gods word our theology should shape our eschatology, Not our eschatology shape our theology.
God bless.
As you suggested, using Google is not a good way to prove a doctrine.
However, as you have done here, we can use an internet search to find our more about what history shows us from the time of the apostles up to now.
I have read all 9 posts and have replied to some. I don't think that you have proven that more than few isolated people believed in pre-trib rapture over the course of Christian history. Some of your citations do not speak to a pre-trib rature, but to the one and only Second coming of Jesus after the tribulation. So I am unconvinced by your reasoning here. I continue to hold to the post-tribulation second coming of Jesus and the one and only resurrection and glorification of believers bodies at that time. I believe the trumpet call in Mat. 24:29-31; Rev. 11:15; 1 Thess 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:51 all refer to the same trumpet call-the seventh and last trumpet that bring an end to the Tribulation and the beginning of Jesus' reign with the saints.
Thanks for taking the time to bring these posts forward. As I said to Chris, I don't prefer to address eschatology because it usually brings division. And I gave my reasons for responding to this thread also. I do not wish to continue to hash this out. I respect your right to your viewpoint, and I hope you will respect my right as well.
Don't mean to upset you.
Every bit of what I just posted was off the Internet.
I was on my way to the airport and I forgot to give the purpose or exercise I was trying to display.
You can get arguments for each side on the internet.
This is not to authenticate a view.
But this is to show the internet is not the way to go on this topic.
Why not break down scripture when you reprove someone, you might help them that way.
But if you say, "They didn't hold that view in the early church then it shows you don't trust your own studies or haven't studied "SCRIPTURE". There's a different in studying doctrine and studying scripture.
Good night.
I must say that you do not know what I know of Scripture, nor do you know how I form my beliefs. But you have assumed that I first have a doctrine and then search the Scriptures to prove it. That is not true of me.
I also do not intend to reprove anyone. I just wish to present my viewpoint and to respond to others stating why I disagree.
I believe that you are a serious Christian who loves the Word, studies it, forms your beliefs by it, and lives it out in you life. So am I that way. I ask you to believe this about me also.
For now I wish to leave this conversation, if I may. But perhaps I will respond to something someone writes. As you may know, I usually do not lead out with a post starting a new thread. I usually respond to what others say.
I want to have healthy conversations with others by being respectful, earnest, truthful, thoughtful, and helpful. So, we shall see how the Lord leads me from this post forward.
Have a good nights rest. It is late here on the west coast, so you are probably snoozing. I tried to get to the snoozing part, but couldn't. So, I got up and came here. Off to bed again. Hope I can sleep well. Been having sleep difficulties since my hand surgery 2/2. I hope I can overcome this soon.
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