Bible Discussion Thread

Predestination

Whatever side of the whole issue one takes in regard to Predestination and free will; we all as Bible believers (unless Universalists)

accept that some in the end are saved; and some are lost. We shall also assume that we are not of the camp that doesn't believe in a literal hell (which; by default should cause an issue with a literal heaven); and finally we will accept that eternity means eternity; not some annihilation.

All would agree that there is a set number saved and lost in the end. Despite what may be assumed by some; there is still an impetus thrusting people out to proclaim the Gospel for "Arminians" and "Calvinists." In fact; looking at the history of Whitfield; for example and other reformers; as well as personal friends of mine who are all "Calvanists" it could be argued they are the majority of those evangelizing. The emphasis is on proclaiming the Good News and having the Spirit draw those forth who He will; rather than what some call "decisional regeneration." One could say that neither viewpoint or any in-between one in regrad to free will and predestination takes away for a true believer the infallibility of the entire text of 66 books of the Bible.

What is most vital; therefore is to take the entire Word of God and consume it. If we try to pigeonhole anything to fit into our understanding of a doctrine and disregard those seemingly contradictory verses then we are doing violence to scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 is a dire warning against that book at least; it should stand also to other violations of scripture.

Of course; if we are to start a Theocracy as some of the reformers did where men are forced to believe some tenet out of fear of man's punishment we are going against what we claim about God drawing all men to Himself ( John 12:32-33). The same thing can be said when peer or family pressure exists and/or someone is "culturally or born into" Christianity. When the Spirit prompts it IS time for decision.

Thank you Richard, for a very reasoned post on this subject.

I may add that there are some that are not Calvinists nor Arminianist in the true sense of these words. Each viewpoint does have strong points and weaknesses, in my view. But, as you advise, I keep studying the Scriptures and hold them up to what people say.

In regards to the rest of what you stated, I agree! We are to hold out the gospel to all whom the Spirit leads us to share it with. We let the Holy Spirit do the rest, because only God knows who and how many will be saved in total and whom and how many will be forever lost without God's presence, grace, benevolence. Only His wrath.

It seems most on this site espouse a true heaven and hell and that people will be judged either to spend eternity in one or the other. But there are some on here who do not think that there is a hell and spiritualize the concept of heaven. But God does not dwell in a conceptual place. He is a real actual Being, and heaven is real, though spiritual place where heavenly being exist.

Also, many of these people are universalists, as you say, believing that all humans will be saved in the end. I am not one of them, but there have been posts by people who do fit into. that camp.

So, as Paul, told us, we are to watch our faith and doctrine carefully to be sure that we are, indeed, in and of the faith.

My prayer for all people on this forum is that they grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and His word given to us through Himself and through the Bible. I pray that people on this forum will earnestly seek Him in all ways, and advance in their love for Him and pursue Him in Scripture.