I am studying in Luke Chapter 14 and would like to share something I've come to realize about God's humbling process. Luke 14:11 says, "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
This word "abased" is the word humbled in the Greek text. This is quote from Proverbs 3:34 and it is used quite extensively through the entire New Testament. Peter has probably the best presentation of this in 1 Peter 5:5.
Peter quotes Proverbs 3:34 "For whosoever exalts themselves shall be humbled, and whosoever should humble themselves shall be exalted." In the very next verse, 1 Peter 5:6, it says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God."
Now, this looks like it is saying we are to humble ourselves, but as I am comparing this with the original language of scripture, the phrase "Humble yourselves" is what is called a Passive Voice, which means the subject (the believer) is not told to do the action, but rather the subject (believer) is to receive the action.
So, it is literally "be humbled," not the believer doing the humbling, but the believer submitting to the humbling that is coming to you. As I look at what the text says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God," it is not telling me to humble myself, but to submit myself to God's humbling process.
Peter is saying that God's mighty hand is coming upon us to humble us, that is, bring us low. We are to submit to it!
I have enjoyed your posts on this subject very much thank you for them . It's an interesting subject . For me the two greatest examples of humbling in the Bible are Job and of course , our Saviour , Jesus Christ . Something not mentioned , the Romans were excellent torturers and enjoyed finding people's weaknesses and using them against their victims . They would know that nakedness was a big no no in Jewish culture and so I think that they would have made sure that all Jews were crucified naked . This might explain why many people at first stood afar away from Jesus , including his mom . Jesus is an example of both being humbled and submitting to God's humbling process . As Christians we may not always realise this but maybe , just maybe , God might use the things and people of this world to humble us . I am a person who is very very ordinary . I don't have a great job , I'm not handsome or rich or clever or creative . I don't have many of the things that people , Christians and non Christians have and maybe take for granted every day . As a child I was humbled from a young age by my parents . Non of this bothers me one bit . I take it all as God moulding me into who He wants me to be . He is righteous , He knows what kind of chastening I need and I glory in it . It is an expression of His love and care for me .He will make me His forever . I can do nothing to save myself or make myself acceptable to Him . Submission . It's the key , for me at least .
The things you said are a perfect example of humbleness. And yes, submission is the key. And I agree with you that the Lord sometimes uses the material things of this world and people as a means of humbling us.
You mention that you don't have much but you seem very content with what the Lord has given you. That should be an example for all believers.
You have caused me to think about the things I have and how much I myself take for granted, how much I value those things, where my focus needs to be, and I do thank you for that. You have truly ministered to my heart.
And yes, I agree that we can do nothing to save ourselves or make ourselves acceptable to Him. The only way we can please Him is by surrendering our lives to Him, making Him the Lord over us, and submitting to the persuasion of His Spirit in which He has given to us. We have to step aside and give Him full control or else we have an illegitimate claim of calling Him our Lord!
The Lord is working great things in you. You have demonstrated a perfect attitude of what it's like to be humbled. Don't change anything, save for allowing Him to make changes in your life as He sees fit!
I would like to see the meaning of the word "humble" using the text in Philippians 2:5-11. Verses 7-8 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, AND BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, even the death of the cross." How did Jesus humbled Himself? By becoming obedient to Father God(v 8). So, often(but not always) when the Bible talks about humbling, it actually means obeying God. When we obey God we humble ourselves, because we accept God as superior who is always right and who knows the best for us, so we put away our beliefs, our ambitions in life, our ways of living and behaving and we follow His commandments and wishes and plans for us. GBU
this is an interesting conversation about being humbled. I think that in Philippians 4 when it says that Jesus humbled Himself it does mean that He submitted Himself to the Father and to the plan ordained before the foundation of the world to save mankind from sin. But I also think that Jesus uniquely humbled Himself by taking a human nature unto Himself so that He, being God, would function as a man on earth being fully directed and empowered by the Holy Spirit. He did not stop being God when he incarnated in human flesh, but the humanity veiled His divinity and glory. Jesus took upon Himself the nature of a creature though He created all things. So, to speak, this was a downgrade for the Son of God. It was a humiliation, as even perfect humanity is beneath Him and His divine dignity. But He take on perfect humanity anyway, for us and to honor the Father and to carry out His love gift to us in His sacrifice for our sin.
Some people think that when Mary conceived that God the Son joined Himself to the person conceived in Mary. This is not true. The church has consistently confessed that Jesus was only on person, the Divine Son of God, but that He added a human nature (not another person) to Himself. The miracle of the conception of the Son of God is truly amazing. We can see that the Son truly humbled Himself to be conceived in Mary and go through human development to enter the world He created by being birthed by Mary. He did not indwell another human's body. The Father prepared a human body for Him. So, He was fully human and fully God, but not two persons. Nor was His divine nature mixed with His human nature. These existed in a union that did not involve mixing of two nature to become one new nature. In uniting his nature with a human nature, Jesus accepted restrictions to how His life was expressed. This was a humbling decision.
He has forever united His divine nature to His human nature so that He will eternally be fully God and fully man.
Yes, you are right dear Gigi, well said about Jesus humbling Himself. The Almighty God who made the vast universe from nothing with just His Word became a poor man, was born between animals, was humiliated by people and at the end He died a horrible death. This is what perfect love is. We are born in christian countries so we become familiarized with these things since childhood and they don't impress us any more. But if you think about them...
About Jesus' conception in Mary I wouldn't try to explain it, there is much we don't understand, we have to wait until we go to Heaven, then we will aquire the perfect and complete knowledge of everything. GBU
We often don't enhance our understanding of doctrines we learned when young. But when we do dig deeper as we age and our brain and faculties mature, the Holy Spirit uses these to help us have a more robust understanding of spiritual teachings.
And, yes, it is true that in this life we see oh so darkly. But in heaven we will know more fully! Can't wait!
As you probably already know, since you know Greek, the word humbled used in Philippians 2:8 is the word TAPEINOO which means to make (become) low, or to humble.
With the believer, it shows humility and complete loneliness. This happens by being fully dependent on the Lord - dismissing reliance upon self (self-government) and emptying our carnal ego. This exalts the Lord as our all-in-all and prompts the gift of His fullness in us.
God emptied Himself. He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
If I can share this, if you're interested, notice at Verse 6. It begins with the word who. And there are three main verbs in this context. All the rest are participles.
While being in the form of God, He thought it not robbery to be equal with God. That's point one.
But He made Himself of no reputation, or more literally emptied Himself. That's point two.
Having taken on the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men, explains what it means by Him emptying Himself.
Again a participle. And being found in fashion as a man, number three, He humbled Himself.
What does that mean?
Having become obedient unto death, and not just death, but the most shameful death that you could think of at that time, the death of the cross.
You see, he's illustrating in Christ. Look what God did to have fellowship with us. That's what the believer must do. And we can only do that through Christ.
The same Jesus that humbled Himself to come 2,000 years ago, actively lives in the lives of every believer, and He Himself lives out that same emptying and humbleness.
1. I agree with what you wrote about Jesus although I believe that we can sometimes humble ourselves, and if we are not determined to do so and it is needed then God does it for us by getting us through situations that push our ego/pride downwards. Example. Lets consider humbling ourselves as obeying to God. Say a commadement is "Don't lie". Obviously one can do that (unless they have the passion of lying). So it it up to me to humble myself infront of God's Will. Say another commadement is "Love your enemy". Obviously this can not be done without God's Grace, that com/ment is impossible to do for any man on earth. Let's consider another com/ment, "Read the Bible, Pray to God", I can do those and if I don't do them then I will find myself in trouble and I will eventually humble myself.
There are passions/things in men that only the Spirit of God can free them from these, but there are things we can do ourselves without needing any help from the Lord, e.g. "Do not take any oath". God starts acting on us when our ability can not get us any further. e.g. I need a job. So what I can do is go out and look for one, this is for me to do, God is not going to do it for me, but what He can do is to bring a result in my search for a job(this I can not do). It is true though that many times we are completely incapable of doing anything but praying. Praying to God and asking for things (material or spiritual) isn't humbling ourselves in front of God? We accept that we can not do anything by/for ourselves, so we ask for help. Fasting isn't humbling ourselves?
2. The grk for "Humble yourselves " is not passive voice, it means make yourselves humble(not done by somebody else).
Anc grk "tapeinono" means make somebody humble(myself in this case). In mod. grk it has become passive voice, "tapeinonomai" (don't try to pronounce it, you'll strain your tongue) which means that I become humble (by myself). Confusing but right.
I have to agree with you in that we can humble ourselves. I don't think I ever said that we cannot humble ourselves so I'm not sure where the disconnect is coming from?
I do believe that I can humble myself. But if I am doing the humbling then I have to contribute it to my flesh doing so. There is a difference between my flesh doing the humbling and the Lord doing the humbling.
You may not agree with me but I believe there is a difference between my flesh and the Spirit of Christ who lives in me. My flesh wants nothing to do with the things of the Lord.
It is God's Spirit in me that causes me to remain in submission to Him, not my flesh. My flesh will never humble itself before the Lord. Therefore, I must be humbled, and it has to come from Him. My flesh will never do anything spiritually pleasing to the Lord. It's His Spirit in me that causes me to be humbled before Him.
But can we humble ourselves? Yes we can. But if we're doing the humbling in the flesh, what is that to the Lord? In my own human effort, I can humble myself towards other people, but not toward the Lord.
I do have a question for you. Where you said you will find yourself in trouble and eventually humble yourself, my question is: in trouble with who?
Thank you for responding. I do appreciate the things you share.
There is a sister (a really good sister) in Christ here that when the covid pandemic started she believed all those conspiracy theories and didn't go to get the jabs. Her right to do what she believed right for her to do. But what she was also doing was talking to others and persuading them not getting the jab. A lot of people believed her and followed her, believers that is. The elders of the church talked to her repeatedly, but she wouldn't listen and still kept affecting people. When we wish to hear God's voice we should often listen to the people that God has annointed in the church for this job, so it was actually God telling her to stop doing that, she was getting his other children into a deadly situation. Well, she wouldn't listen. Until she got the virus herself. In the hospital she found herself a small step before death. But God showed mercy to her and she didn't die. After a long time she came out of the hospital but almost 2 years later on she still has some problems with her lungs, also kinetic problems. After she escaped death she changed her mind and started talking and affecting believers to definetely go and get the jabs. So was it good that God was complelled to humble her or it would have been better if she listened in the first place and avoid all that trouble?
Moses. Who humbled him? God did. Why? Because he didn't humble himself. I am refering to the incident that Moses killed that Egyptian and afterwards went into the desert. Moses grew up knowing that he was the one who will free Israel. He was educated, powerful, had all the knowledge of palace and country affairs at that time, had friends/conections in the palace, everywhere, he knew that those 400 years in captivity were gone and the time Israel was going to be freed has finally arrived, he knew how miracusely became son of the daughter of pharaoh, so who else would set Israeletes free from Egypt but him? A man of power, a ruler? But he makes a bad move, kills that Egyptian and has to escape into the desert. Why? Because he acted foolishly himself believing that it was time to start acting, instead of waiting for God guiding him. So he went into the desert for 40 years. And in that desert him who was strong in speech and actions became "Oh my Lord, I can not speak properly, sent somebody else in my place". Those 40 years humbled him, how is it possible to keep the ability to speak properly when for 40 years the only thing you hear is "ba, ba"(in gr sheep make beh, beh with grk accent!)? And from there on Moses was always waiting for God to tell him what to do.
But In those 40 years that God's plan was postponed a whole generation of Israeletes spent their lives in horrible situations, with beatings and hanger and exhaustion and all that. Why? Because of Moeses thinking that he was capable of anything, instead putting his pride down and ask God for help and guidance. So is it good me to humble myself before God and avoid a lot of trouble or God being compeled to do so?
Firstly sorry for misunderstanding your post, I thought you said that men can not humble themselves.
I have a question. Why is there a difference between me humbling myself and God humbling me? It is the result that matters I think, not the process, nor who is doing it. I don't think that God wants people to be weak, but I think He wants us to know our limits, and know when we should stop acting ourselves and ask for help. He wishes us to consult Him not for His glory but for us to avoid disasters. But it is true that many times we can do nothing, especially in spiritual affairs, like producing a fruit or facing the devil with our own arms.
Example. If my 2 year son asks me for water then I will go to the kitchen and bring him a glass of water, but if my 12 year old son asks me for water then I will reply to him that he is able to do it himself, I will not get him water, unless I want to make him a favor. And when my son is 2, I am glad seeing him growing up, who wants to see his child staying a baby for ever? And when he growes up I am there to consult and help him, when needed.
About your question, just think of the prodigal son. When he left His father's house and run out of money, how was he humbled? By eating pig's food, and he couldn't even get that (figuratevely this is what the world offers to people, food for pigs). The harsh situation that he found himself in, compelled him to get humbled. Likewise when we disobey God and get ourselves in bad situations, then we give it a second thought before doing it again, so it the situation we come into that makes us humble ourselves.
Thank you for your reply. To answer your question, I will just say that if you see no difference in who's doing the humbling, whether it be yourself, or God, it's not my intent to convince you otherwise.
I do believe there is a difference. I think we would both agree that humbleness is a good quality? We both agree that we can humble ourselves, meaning our flesh is humbling itself, and that God can also humble us.
The only place I think we differ on is there being a difference between who's doing the humbling.
Here's why I see a difference, and please know that I am not trying to change your mind if you see no difference. I am just going to apply this to myself.
If I'm humbling myself, that means my flesh is doing the humbling. God will not reward me for anything I do in the flesh. Now, if I submit myself to His humbling process, I believe He will recognize that and reward that. Besides, My flesh will never humble itself before the Lord. I can humanly in the flesh humble myself towards other people but not towards God.
If I'm humble towards God, it is only because He has humbled me, and in my spirit, I submitted to His humbling.
In my original post, I mentioned 1 Peter 5:6 and gave the literal translation. Our English Bible says humble yourself, but it is literally "be humbled."
I mentioned it was in the passive, and I believe you responded and said it was not passive. We'll, I took another look at the Greek Text (Textus Receptus), and the word used is Tapeinothete, and it is aorist tense, passive voice, imperative mood, second person, plural, meaning it is God doing the humbling, with us being the recipient.
It's not telling us to humble ourselves, but to be humble (God doing the humbling).
In your example of the prodigal son, if we choose to go our own way and come back to the Lord humbled, we come back because of the conviction that God puts on our heart, and it's that conviction which causes us to be humbled by God.
I was wondering what you mean by saying Jesus emptied Himself in this Philippians verse.
I do not think that Jesus set aside any of His deity in the incarnation, nor did He empty Himself of any of His divine attributes. But He continued to possess them all but chose not to express them through most of His earthly life. He lived as a man would live, but it was God living out an incarnated manhood.
I do think that in taking on human nature, His glory was veiled, but I do not think He emptied anything of His deity out of Himself during His earthly life just as He did not empty Himself of His humanity when He resurrected and ascended.
So, I would be be interested in hour explanation of Jesus emptying Himself in becoming man, since God cannot never change (be more or less divine than He truly is.
I agree with what you're saying. Deity can never be broken. I did also say that He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
Where I said He emptied Himself, that is what it literally says in the Greek text. I will never dispute the deity of Jesus Christ.
We're told in Philippians 2:6, Who, being in the form of God, and the word being means while existing in the form of God. That's who He is. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
He did not rob God by proclaiming Himself and presenting Himself as equal to God. So Jesus is not part of who God is. He's God.
Now when we get to Verse 7, and our English Bible doesn't give this to us, but where it reads "But made himself of no reputation"literally, it is translated but He emptied Himself.
What, of being God? No!
Of coming here and taking on human flesh, He emptied Himself of the presentation of "I'm God, and I'm here and you should worship me!"
His approach to this earthly life in His first time coming here was He chose the low road. When He had a choice, He chose to sleep in the garden.
That is not very enticing for some people to say "Where does your pastor live." Well, he lives out in the park. "Where was he born?" In a cave.
All of the things associated with the Lord's path in His approach to this life was I don't want any glory from man. I don't want to be made a king from the earthly standpoint. I don't want to be treated for who I am. I want to be the servant of all.
So this was God Himself taking the low road. He emptied Himself having taken upon Him the form of a servant, or slave, and having been made in the likeness of men.
Thank you brother Jesse for sharing those comments & particularly this passage which is so precious to me ( Philippians 2:5-8).
The point of Paul's teaching here is Jesus' Servanthood. His Coming in the flesh was purely as a Servant & a Sacrifice, for how could God ever present His Glory, Divinity & eternal Nature to secure man's redemption, unless He first condescended to man's finite, lowly estate. Thus that glorious Nature was hid from the world (though in time, some realized that He was no ordinary Man) and then coming to full realization of this Truth with great joy & power, as God's Spirit made the full Person of the Godhead clear to them.
How would Jesus' Life, Ministry, & Sacrifice worked out if His Divinity wasn't veiled from the people, & of course Him not taking on human flesh? To the pagans, they might have easily exclaimed, "the gods have come down to us in the likeness of men", but to the Jews, Jesus would never be given any platform or voice as it would be preposterous that God would come to Earth. But as a Man, not only to be able to give up His Life, but to show to His people that indeed God had appeared to them by Word & demonstration of His Power, Jesus was in every way a Man, but came veiled so that they could see Him for Who God wanted them to see. The clear-thinking, clear-seeing Jew would have seen a truly holy Man, serving others in every way by word & deed, and that God was with Him & speaking to them. "A prophet?" Maybe, "more than a prophet", to some.
Had Jesus held onto His Glory & Position, He could never take on the "form of a servant", for these positions oppose each other. Jesus knew that he could not 'grasp/tenaciously hold onto' (= "robbery") His Glory & Position & then identify with His people in their sufferings, grip in sin & ignorance, and their need for salvation & new life in Christ. So it seems, Jesus chose the path of Servant-hood, that which was necessary; a display of pomp & power would surely negate God's Plan.
No worries. When I read what you sent me, I was thinking oh no, I gave the wrong impression on who I believe Christ is. I believe we're on the same page.
And my apologies for not responding to you by name. I'm not sure why I did that. Probably because I was still working on my first cup of coffee.
I spoke up primarily that there are many who truly hold to the "kenotic" theory that Jesus did divest Himself of some of His divinity in the incarnation resulting in Him possessing less of the divine nature. This would mean that He was not fully God and that as God, He changed in His nature as to the degree of divinity He then possessed. This is a theory that does not align with sound doctrine about God's nature.
I did not necessarily think that you hold to this theory, but I wanted to make sure to clarify to one another and to others reading this important doctrine concerning what Philippians 4 is really talking about concerning God the Son "emptying" Himself to become a man.
Whether it be me in my own effort trying to humble myself before the Lord, or the Lord doing the humbling, I speak for myself here when I say that His humbling is far greater than anything I can do in the human, or in the flesh.
If I am humble before the Lord, am I to boast of my own fleshly effort, or do I give Him the credit? I have to give the Lord all the glory and credit for being humbled.
You see, I have to be able to differentiate between the flesh and the Spirit of Christ who lives in me. My flesh will never submit to the things of the Lord. My flesh wants nothing to do with Lord and is in a constant battle with the Spirit of Christ in me.
With that in mind, I have to ask myself, will my flesh ever submit to Gods humbling process. I have to say no. If I am to be humbled before the Lord, I have submit myself to Him and allow Him to humble me, therefore He receives all glory and honor.
I am to be humbled, not humble myself. And the only way I can be humbled is by submitting myself to His humbling process.
"If we walk after the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh "?
Or " Let not sin reign in your mortal flesh"?
For if sin reigns and rules you will obey .
If Christ reigns and rules you will obey Him.
What do you say to John in his first epistle that if we are children of God " We will not sin"?
The emphasis is on not sinning , bit IF we sin we have an advocate with the zFather .
Paul expressed the battle between the flesh and the spirit and we too often focus on that but forget the " thanks be unto God who gives us the victory".
Is it not also written " They that are His have crucified the flesh with the lusts thereof"?
Too much 'humility ' is not a good thing .
Nor if truly humble can you at the same time be arrogant .
Indeed how can any man be arrogant if he truly has any lively knowledge of God?
I'm happy to answer your questions on these scriptures.
Galatians 5:16 starts off by saying, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit." That's a Present Tense Imperative. What it is saying is "Be (continually) walking under the influence of God's Spirit." That's actually a command. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul says be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit. The word filled means influenced. Seek to be influenced by the Spirit. Paul focuses on the influences in our life, the persuasions and the various things that influence us and take us captive.
Romans 6:12, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body." That's easier said than done. But again, it's the sin. Let not the (sin principle) reign in your mortal body. How can he say that? It's because he is leading us into the fact that when we get to Verse 14, where it says that sin shall not lord it over you, that is a factual statement, (not should not, but it cannot). If I sin, it is because I made the choice. But once I'm saved, it's the power of God's Spirit in me that gives me the power over sin.
Lastly, 1 John 3:6, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
It sounds like a Christian does not sin according to scriptures. But here's what it's saying: The word abides is a Present Participle, (abiding). Whoever is abiding in Him "is" (Present Tense), not sinning, (continuously as a habit of life). It's not talking about committing an act of sin. It's talking about committing sin continuously, a lifestyle of not surrendering to Christ.
It's a condition. Whoever is continuously remaining (Abiding/MENO) in Him, does not practice sin, ever!
As someone who has been born of the Spirit of God, I can never go back and live the old lifestyle I lived before I received Christ. It's impossible!
The contrast: "Whoever sins, and again that's a Participle. Whoever is (continuously sinning) has not seen Him, neither have they known Him.
This word "abased" is the word humbled in the Greek text. This is quote from Proverbs 3:34 and it is used quite extensively through the entire New Testament. Peter has probably the best presentation of this in 1 Peter 5:5.
Peter quotes Proverbs 3:34 "For whosoever exalts themselves shall be humbled, and whosoever should humble themselves shall be exalted." In the very next verse, 1 Peter 5:6, it says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God."
Now, this looks like it is saying we are to humble ourselves, but as I am comparing this with the original language of scripture, the phrase "Humble yourselves" is what is called a Passive Voice, which means the subject (the believer) is not told to do the action, but rather the subject (believer) is to receive the action.
So, it is literally "be humbled," not the believer doing the humbling, but the believer submitting to the humbling that is coming to you. As I look at what the text says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God," it is not telling me to humble myself, but to submit myself to God's humbling process.
Peter is saying that God's mighty hand is coming upon us to humble us, that is, bring us low. We are to submit to it!
The things you said are a perfect example of humbleness. And yes, submission is the key. And I agree with you that the Lord sometimes uses the material things of this world and people as a means of humbling us.
You mention that you don't have much but you seem very content with what the Lord has given you. That should be an example for all believers.
You have caused me to think about the things I have and how much I myself take for granted, how much I value those things, where my focus needs to be, and I do thank you for that. You have truly ministered to my heart.
And yes, I agree that we can do nothing to save ourselves or make ourselves acceptable to Him. The only way we can please Him is by surrendering our lives to Him, making Him the Lord over us, and submitting to the persuasion of His Spirit in which He has given to us. We have to step aside and give Him full control or else we have an illegitimate claim of calling Him our Lord!
The Lord is working great things in you. You have demonstrated a perfect attitude of what it's like to be humbled. Don't change anything, save for allowing Him to make changes in your life as He sees fit!
May the Lord continue to bless you abundantly!
I would like to see the meaning of the word "humble" using the text in Philippians 2:5-11. Verses 7-8 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, AND BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, even the death of the cross." How did Jesus humbled Himself? By becoming obedient to Father God(v 8). So, often(but not always) when the Bible talks about humbling, it actually means obeying God. When we obey God we humble ourselves, because we accept God as superior who is always right and who knows the best for us, so we put away our beliefs, our ambitions in life, our ways of living and behaving and we follow His commandments and wishes and plans for us. GBU
this is an interesting conversation about being humbled. I think that in Philippians 4 when it says that Jesus humbled Himself it does mean that He submitted Himself to the Father and to the plan ordained before the foundation of the world to save mankind from sin. But I also think that Jesus uniquely humbled Himself by taking a human nature unto Himself so that He, being God, would function as a man on earth being fully directed and empowered by the Holy Spirit. He did not stop being God when he incarnated in human flesh, but the humanity veiled His divinity and glory. Jesus took upon Himself the nature of a creature though He created all things. So, to speak, this was a downgrade for the Son of God. It was a humiliation, as even perfect humanity is beneath Him and His divine dignity. But He take on perfect humanity anyway, for us and to honor the Father and to carry out His love gift to us in His sacrifice for our sin.
Some people think that when Mary conceived that God the Son joined Himself to the person conceived in Mary. This is not true. The church has consistently confessed that Jesus was only on person, the Divine Son of God, but that He added a human nature (not another person) to Himself. The miracle of the conception of the Son of God is truly amazing. We can see that the Son truly humbled Himself to be conceived in Mary and go through human development to enter the world He created by being birthed by Mary. He did not indwell another human's body. The Father prepared a human body for Him. So, He was fully human and fully God, but not two persons. Nor was His divine nature mixed with His human nature. These existed in a union that did not involve mixing of two nature to become one new nature. In uniting his nature with a human nature, Jesus accepted restrictions to how His life was expressed. This was a humbling decision.
He has forever united His divine nature to His human nature so that He will eternally be fully God and fully man.
About Jesus' conception in Mary I wouldn't try to explain it, there is much we don't understand, we have to wait until we go to Heaven, then we will aquire the perfect and complete knowledge of everything. GBU
We often don't enhance our understanding of doctrines we learned when young. But when we do dig deeper as we age and our brain and faculties mature, the Holy Spirit uses these to help us have a more robust understanding of spiritual teachings.
And, yes, it is true that in this life we see oh so darkly. But in heaven we will know more fully! Can't wait!
As you probably already know, since you know Greek, the word humbled used in Philippians 2:8 is the word TAPEINOO which means to make (become) low, or to humble.
With the believer, it shows humility and complete loneliness. This happens by being fully dependent on the Lord - dismissing reliance upon self (self-government) and emptying our carnal ego. This exalts the Lord as our all-in-all and prompts the gift of His fullness in us.
God emptied Himself. He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
If I can share this, if you're interested, notice at Verse 6. It begins with the word who. And there are three main verbs in this context. All the rest are participles.
While being in the form of God, He thought it not robbery to be equal with God. That's point one.
But He made Himself of no reputation, or more literally emptied Himself. That's point two.
Having taken on the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men, explains what it means by Him emptying Himself.
Again a participle. And being found in fashion as a man, number three, He humbled Himself.
What does that mean?
Having become obedient unto death, and not just death, but the most shameful death that you could think of at that time, the death of the cross.
You see, he's illustrating in Christ. Look what God did to have fellowship with us. That's what the believer must do. And we can only do that through Christ.
The same Jesus that humbled Himself to come 2,000 years ago, actively lives in the lives of every believer, and He Himself lives out that same emptying and humbleness.
He doesn't give me the ability. He does it!
I have just found that reply of yours to me.
1. I agree with what you wrote about Jesus although I believe that we can sometimes humble ourselves, and if we are not determined to do so and it is needed then God does it for us by getting us through situations that push our ego/pride downwards. Example. Lets consider humbling ourselves as obeying to God. Say a commadement is "Don't lie". Obviously one can do that (unless they have the passion of lying). So it it up to me to humble myself infront of God's Will. Say another commadement is "Love your enemy". Obviously this can not be done without God's Grace, that com/ment is impossible to do for any man on earth. Let's consider another com/ment, "Read the Bible, Pray to God", I can do those and if I don't do them then I will find myself in trouble and I will eventually humble myself.
There are passions/things in men that only the Spirit of God can free them from these, but there are things we can do ourselves without needing any help from the Lord, e.g. "Do not take any oath". God starts acting on us when our ability can not get us any further. e.g. I need a job. So what I can do is go out and look for one, this is for me to do, God is not going to do it for me, but what He can do is to bring a result in my search for a job(this I can not do). It is true though that many times we are completely incapable of doing anything but praying. Praying to God and asking for things (material or spiritual) isn't humbling ourselves in front of God? We accept that we can not do anything by/for ourselves, so we ask for help. Fasting isn't humbling ourselves?
2. The grk for "Humble yourselves " is not passive voice, it means make yourselves humble(not done by somebody else).
Anc grk "tapeinono" means make somebody humble(myself in this case). In mod. grk it has become passive voice, "tapeinonomai" (don't try to pronounce it, you'll strain your tongue) which means that I become humble (by myself). Confusing but right.
GBU
I have to agree with you in that we can humble ourselves. I don't think I ever said that we cannot humble ourselves so I'm not sure where the disconnect is coming from?
I do believe that I can humble myself. But if I am doing the humbling then I have to contribute it to my flesh doing so. There is a difference between my flesh doing the humbling and the Lord doing the humbling.
You may not agree with me but I believe there is a difference between my flesh and the Spirit of Christ who lives in me. My flesh wants nothing to do with the things of the Lord.
It is God's Spirit in me that causes me to remain in submission to Him, not my flesh. My flesh will never humble itself before the Lord. Therefore, I must be humbled, and it has to come from Him. My flesh will never do anything spiritually pleasing to the Lord. It's His Spirit in me that causes me to be humbled before Him.
But can we humble ourselves? Yes we can. But if we're doing the humbling in the flesh, what is that to the Lord? In my own human effort, I can humble myself towards other people, but not toward the Lord.
I do have a question for you. Where you said you will find yourself in trouble and eventually humble yourself, my question is: in trouble with who?
Thank you for responding. I do appreciate the things you share.
Third and final part. A true story.
There is a sister (a really good sister) in Christ here that when the covid pandemic started she believed all those conspiracy theories and didn't go to get the jabs. Her right to do what she believed right for her to do. But what she was also doing was talking to others and persuading them not getting the jab. A lot of people believed her and followed her, believers that is. The elders of the church talked to her repeatedly, but she wouldn't listen and still kept affecting people. When we wish to hear God's voice we should often listen to the people that God has annointed in the church for this job, so it was actually God telling her to stop doing that, she was getting his other children into a deadly situation. Well, she wouldn't listen. Until she got the virus herself. In the hospital she found herself a small step before death. But God showed mercy to her and she didn't die. After a long time she came out of the hospital but almost 2 years later on she still has some problems with her lungs, also kinetic problems. After she escaped death she changed her mind and started talking and affecting believers to definetely go and get the jabs. So was it good that God was complelled to humble her or it would have been better if she listened in the first place and avoid all that trouble?
Hi again Jesse.
Lets see an example of God humbling somebody.
Moses. Who humbled him? God did. Why? Because he didn't humble himself. I am refering to the incident that Moses killed that Egyptian and afterwards went into the desert. Moses grew up knowing that he was the one who will free Israel. He was educated, powerful, had all the knowledge of palace and country affairs at that time, had friends/conections in the palace, everywhere, he knew that those 400 years in captivity were gone and the time Israel was going to be freed has finally arrived, he knew how miracusely became son of the daughter of pharaoh, so who else would set Israeletes free from Egypt but him? A man of power, a ruler? But he makes a bad move, kills that Egyptian and has to escape into the desert. Why? Because he acted foolishly himself believing that it was time to start acting, instead of waiting for God guiding him. So he went into the desert for 40 years. And in that desert him who was strong in speech and actions became "Oh my Lord, I can not speak properly, sent somebody else in my place". Those 40 years humbled him, how is it possible to keep the ability to speak properly when for 40 years the only thing you hear is "ba, ba"(in gr sheep make beh, beh with grk accent!)? And from there on Moses was always waiting for God to tell him what to do.
But In those 40 years that God's plan was postponed a whole generation of Israeletes spent their lives in horrible situations, with beatings and hanger and exhaustion and all that. Why? Because of Moeses thinking that he was capable of anything, instead putting his pride down and ask God for help and guidance. So is it good me to humble myself before God and avoid a lot of trouble or God being compeled to do so?
Firstly sorry for misunderstanding your post, I thought you said that men can not humble themselves.
I have a question. Why is there a difference between me humbling myself and God humbling me? It is the result that matters I think, not the process, nor who is doing it. I don't think that God wants people to be weak, but I think He wants us to know our limits, and know when we should stop acting ourselves and ask for help. He wishes us to consult Him not for His glory but for us to avoid disasters. But it is true that many times we can do nothing, especially in spiritual affairs, like producing a fruit or facing the devil with our own arms.
Example. If my 2 year son asks me for water then I will go to the kitchen and bring him a glass of water, but if my 12 year old son asks me for water then I will reply to him that he is able to do it himself, I will not get him water, unless I want to make him a favor. And when my son is 2, I am glad seeing him growing up, who wants to see his child staying a baby for ever? And when he growes up I am there to consult and help him, when needed.
About your question, just think of the prodigal son. When he left His father's house and run out of money, how was he humbled? By eating pig's food, and he couldn't even get that (figuratevely this is what the world offers to people, food for pigs). The harsh situation that he found himself in, compelled him to get humbled. Likewise when we disobey God and get ourselves in bad situations, then we give it a second thought before doing it again, so it the situation we come into that makes us humble ourselves.
GBU
Thank you for your reply. To answer your question, I will just say that if you see no difference in who's doing the humbling, whether it be yourself, or God, it's not my intent to convince you otherwise.
I do believe there is a difference. I think we would both agree that humbleness is a good quality? We both agree that we can humble ourselves, meaning our flesh is humbling itself, and that God can also humble us.
The only place I think we differ on is there being a difference between who's doing the humbling.
Here's why I see a difference, and please know that I am not trying to change your mind if you see no difference. I am just going to apply this to myself.
If I'm humbling myself, that means my flesh is doing the humbling. God will not reward me for anything I do in the flesh. Now, if I submit myself to His humbling process, I believe He will recognize that and reward that. Besides, My flesh will never humble itself before the Lord. I can humanly in the flesh humble myself towards other people but not towards God.
If I'm humble towards God, it is only because He has humbled me, and in my spirit, I submitted to His humbling.
In my original post, I mentioned 1 Peter 5:6 and gave the literal translation. Our English Bible says humble yourself, but it is literally "be humbled."
I mentioned it was in the passive, and I believe you responded and said it was not passive. We'll, I took another look at the Greek Text (Textus Receptus), and the word used is Tapeinothete, and it is aorist tense, passive voice, imperative mood, second person, plural, meaning it is God doing the humbling, with us being the recipient.
It's not telling us to humble ourselves, but to be humble (God doing the humbling).
In your example of the prodigal son, if we choose to go our own way and come back to the Lord humbled, we come back because of the conviction that God puts on our heart, and it's that conviction which causes us to be humbled by God.
I was wondering what you mean by saying Jesus emptied Himself in this Philippians verse.
I do not think that Jesus set aside any of His deity in the incarnation, nor did He empty Himself of any of His divine attributes. But He continued to possess them all but chose not to express them through most of His earthly life. He lived as a man would live, but it was God living out an incarnated manhood.
I do think that in taking on human nature, His glory was veiled, but I do not think He emptied anything of His deity out of Himself during His earthly life just as He did not empty Himself of His humanity when He resurrected and ascended.
So, I would be be interested in hour explanation of Jesus emptying Himself in becoming man, since God cannot never change (be more or less divine than He truly is.
I agree with what you're saying. Deity can never be broken. I did also say that He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
Where I said He emptied Himself, that is what it literally says in the Greek text. I will never dispute the deity of Jesus Christ.
We're told in Philippians 2:6, Who, being in the form of God, and the word being means while existing in the form of God. That's who He is. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
He did not rob God by proclaiming Himself and presenting Himself as equal to God. So Jesus is not part of who God is. He's God.
Now when we get to Verse 7, and our English Bible doesn't give this to us, but where it reads "But made himself of no reputation"literally, it is translated but He emptied Himself.
What, of being God? No!
Of coming here and taking on human flesh, He emptied Himself of the presentation of "I'm God, and I'm here and you should worship me!"
His approach to this earthly life in His first time coming here was He chose the low road. When He had a choice, He chose to sleep in the garden.
That is not very enticing for some people to say "Where does your pastor live." Well, he lives out in the park. "Where was he born?" In a cave.
All of the things associated with the Lord's path in His approach to this life was I don't want any glory from man. I don't want to be made a king from the earthly standpoint. I don't want to be treated for who I am. I want to be the servant of all.
So this was God Himself taking the low road. He emptied Himself having taken upon Him the form of a servant, or slave, and having been made in the likeness of men.
The point of Paul's teaching here is Jesus' Servanthood. His Coming in the flesh was purely as a Servant & a Sacrifice, for how could God ever present His Glory, Divinity & eternal Nature to secure man's redemption, unless He first condescended to man's finite, lowly estate. Thus that glorious Nature was hid from the world (though in time, some realized that He was no ordinary Man) and then coming to full realization of this Truth with great joy & power, as God's Spirit made the full Person of the Godhead clear to them.
How would Jesus' Life, Ministry, & Sacrifice worked out if His Divinity wasn't veiled from the people, & of course Him not taking on human flesh? To the pagans, they might have easily exclaimed, "the gods have come down to us in the likeness of men", but to the Jews, Jesus would never be given any platform or voice as it would be preposterous that God would come to Earth. But as a Man, not only to be able to give up His Life, but to show to His people that indeed God had appeared to them by Word & demonstration of His Power, Jesus was in every way a Man, but came veiled so that they could see Him for Who God wanted them to see. The clear-thinking, clear-seeing Jew would have seen a truly holy Man, serving others in every way by word & deed, and that God was with Him & speaking to them. "A prophet?" Maybe, "more than a prophet", to some.
Had Jesus held onto His Glory & Position, He could never take on the "form of a servant", for these positions oppose each other. Jesus knew that he could not 'grasp/tenaciously hold onto' (= "robbery") His Glory & Position & then identify with His people in their sufferings, grip in sin & ignorance, and their need for salvation & new life in Christ. So it seems, Jesus chose the path of Servant-hood, that which was necessary; a display of pomp & power would surely negate God's Plan.
I, too, was thinking of His servanthood in ever way necessary as primary aspect of Him humbling Himself.
Very well said, Amen and thank you!
Thank you for explaining. It makes more sense to me now.
No worries. When I read what you sent me, I was thinking oh no, I gave the wrong impression on who I believe Christ is. I believe we're on the same page.
And my apologies for not responding to you by name. I'm not sure why I did that. Probably because I was still working on my first cup of coffee.
I spoke up primarily that there are many who truly hold to the "kenotic" theory that Jesus did divest Himself of some of His divinity in the incarnation resulting in Him possessing less of the divine nature. This would mean that He was not fully God and that as God, He changed in His nature as to the degree of divinity He then possessed. This is a theory that does not align with sound doctrine about God's nature.
I did not necessarily think that you hold to this theory, but I wanted to make sure to clarify to one another and to others reading this important doctrine concerning what Philippians 4 is really talking about concerning God the Son "emptying" Himself to become a man.
Have a good night. Time for ed for me.
Peter would certainly know the humbling work of God.
If we tried to humble ourselves we'd probably would brag about it.
God bless.
One can of course humble oneself into hell as many a false religion east or west promotes .
But real humility is a frank and honest appraisal and recognition that we ,you and I are but men and God is God .
The burning bush of Moses was not God ,Nor God the burning bush but God spoke nonetheless from its midst .
Is it not written " Because I do not change oh Jacob you are not consumed"?
And in another place that God " is a consuming fire"?
And was it not one like unto the Son of God who stood with those three in the fiery furnace? Who were not consumed by it ?
Jesus truly is the only way .
I wanted to also say Amen to you in saying "Jesus truly is the only way." I agree completely. We can do nothing without Him!
Whether it be me in my own effort trying to humble myself before the Lord, or the Lord doing the humbling, I speak for myself here when I say that His humbling is far greater than anything I can do in the human, or in the flesh.
If I am humble before the Lord, am I to boast of my own fleshly effort, or do I give Him the credit? I have to give the Lord all the glory and credit for being humbled.
You see, I have to be able to differentiate between the flesh and the Spirit of Christ who lives in me. My flesh will never submit to the things of the Lord. My flesh wants nothing to do with Lord and is in a constant battle with the Spirit of Christ in me.
With that in mind, I have to ask myself, will my flesh ever submit to Gods humbling process. I have to say no. If I am to be humbled before the Lord, I have submit myself to Him and allow Him to humble me, therefore He receives all glory and honor.
I am to be humbled, not humble myself. And the only way I can be humbled is by submitting myself to His humbling process.
What do you say then to the scriptures :-
"If we walk after the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh "?
Or " Let not sin reign in your mortal flesh"?
For if sin reigns and rules you will obey .
If Christ reigns and rules you will obey Him.
What do you say to John in his first epistle that if we are children of God " We will not sin"?
The emphasis is on not sinning , bit IF we sin we have an advocate with the zFather .
Paul expressed the battle between the flesh and the spirit and we too often focus on that but forget the " thanks be unto God who gives us the victory".
Is it not also written " They that are His have crucified the flesh with the lusts thereof"?
Too much 'humility ' is not a good thing .
Nor if truly humble can you at the same time be arrogant .
Indeed how can any man be arrogant if he truly has any lively knowledge of God?
I'm happy to answer your questions on these scriptures.
Galatians 5:16 starts off by saying, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit." That's a Present Tense Imperative. What it is saying is "Be (continually) walking under the influence of God's Spirit." That's actually a command. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul says be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit. The word filled means influenced. Seek to be influenced by the Spirit. Paul focuses on the influences in our life, the persuasions and the various things that influence us and take us captive.
Romans 6:12, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body." That's easier said than done. But again, it's the sin. Let not the (sin principle) reign in your mortal body. How can he say that? It's because he is leading us into the fact that when we get to Verse 14, where it says that sin shall not lord it over you, that is a factual statement, (not should not, but it cannot). If I sin, it is because I made the choice. But once I'm saved, it's the power of God's Spirit in me that gives me the power over sin.
Lastly, 1 John 3:6, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
It sounds like a Christian does not sin according to scriptures. But here's what it's saying: The word abides is a Present Participle, (abiding). Whoever is abiding in Him "is" (Present Tense), not sinning, (continuously as a habit of life). It's not talking about committing an act of sin. It's talking about committing sin continuously, a lifestyle of not surrendering to Christ.
It's a condition. Whoever is continuously remaining (Abiding/MENO) in Him, does not practice sin, ever!
As someone who has been born of the Spirit of God, I can never go back and live the old lifestyle I lived before I received Christ. It's impossible!
The contrast: "Whoever sins, and again that's a Participle. Whoever is (continuously sinning) has not seen Him, neither have they known Him.
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