Bible Discussion Thread

  • InaMI
    my friends, how to understand "justified by faith"? Is it right to put a good man into hell because he doesn't believe in God?
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi InaMi.

    We don't go to heaven by being good, nor in just believing in the existence of God. One would have to recognize his sinful and lost state and have faith in Gods plan of redemption.

    God is Holy and there is nothing man can do to reconcile himself to God.

    Romans 3:10-11 says "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    The wages of sin is death, we're all sinners and sin have to be paid for, so I don't like to say Christ done away with sin on the cross but rather "Christ paid the penalty for our sin on the cross". He was the sacrificial lamb, He died in our place. Jesus was sinless and when the Lord took upon our sin God the father didn't spare him.

    There is no way to the father but through the son. John 14:6.

    You asked "Is it right to put a good man into hell because he doesn't believe in God?

    No one is good but God as shown here in Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

    God Holiness is above our comprehension.

    Isaiah 55:6-9.

    God bless.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    So what does it mean to be a Christian? To redeem ourselves? How?
  • Mackrodtalan - in Reply
    Putting your faith in Jesus Christ
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi Inami.

    Sorry for such a long delay in responding I went right off to bed after my last reply.

    A disciple of Christ is one who has truly believed on and trusted Christ and have been born of God's spirit. This is not professing to be born again and trying to live a righteous life or by serving or by going to church or by ministering. It's confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that initiates God's spirit to take residence in you. You are baptized by the Holyspirit, meaning you are Identified with Christ. Christ righteous is imputed over on to you. You are then given a new heart with the ability to love and wants to obey him and serve him at your best. John 14:23-26.

    You will also love the brethren. John 13:34-35. 1 John 4:21.

    You can't redeem yourself! You are redeemed when you truly believe on the work Jesus did on the cross where he paid our ransom as mentioned.

    John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    Christianity isn't anything you "DO"

    A Christian is what you "BECOME" by the working of the Holyspirit. And you become that by truly trusting in Christ not the works of our own hands. Christ becomes the Lord over your life and the head of the body of Christians you have been baptized into.

    For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Philippians 2:13.

    God bless.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    From your reply, I can feel that you are a devout Christian. It really subverts my perception of Christianity.

    and I presume most Christians in this age are born to be Christian. I mean, there's no reason for a person with only scientific education to believe that he is sinful and serve God in all his life. Am I right?

    I have no malice and I hope the audit mechanism won't swallow my comment.
  • GiGi - in Reply
    Dear Anonymous,

    The truth is that all people know that they are sinners, even if they are very scientific minded. Science studies natural phenomena. But sin is a spiritual matter, and all of us have a soul that knows we have done wrong to others. This does not mean that they actually know God in the Christian sense, but everyone is made aware of God's existence in some way. Read Romans chapter 1. God sees to it that everyone is made aware. But many will refuse to submit to God and forsake their ways, so they try to find ways to convince themselves that God does not exist. But deep down they know He does, they just don't want him to exist because then they must face His knowledge of and conviction of their own sin.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    Hello. Some say that sin has been with us since we were born. That is why we can never be a good man. But there is no way to convince those atheists that Adam and Eve truly existed and betrayed the lord. And regarding "everyone is made aware of God's existence", to be frank, even I didn't realize it.

    I always hold that one will only become religious when he is told to or when he lacks something psychologically and seeks it. What can Christianity provide us with its inherently guilty remarks
  • GiGi - in Reply
    Again, Anonymous,

    I recommend reading the book of Romans. The first chapter speaks directly to what I have posted to you.
  • Baker - in Reply
    Yeah , no one is good if they don't have the only one that "Is good" with them . Emmanuel God with us is the only way any of us are good . and for the man who doesn't believe in God , only his flesh body goes to hell which is the grave , his spirit body will get another chance during the mileniuum .

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (dikai) Having been Justified : The believer is "made righteous/justified" by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins .

    Having been cleared of all charges , we have peace with God the Father thru Jesus .
  • GiGi - in Reply
    Dear InaMI,

    To continued.

    Jesus' perfectly sinfree life justified Him before God. But we can never live the life He lived. Yet the work of the cross by Jesus takes away all of our sins and instead of us standing before God condemned in our sinfulness, we stand before God justified in the righteousness of Jesus. This is how we are justified by faith. God always judges justly any and all men.

    I recommend reading Romans all the way through. This will be helpful to you.
  • GiGi - in Reply
    Hello InaMI,

    I would like to speak to your question concerning what is justified by faith.

    The Bible, especially in the letters of Paul to the Romans, speak that no person can ever be justified before God by being good enough. This is because, even if we wish to do what is right, we will also do what is wrong. This is because we have a fallen nature called the sinful nature, (Paul often refers to it as the "flesh" but he is not referring to our physical flesh). This sinful nature is passed to each person at conception from their parents and this inherited nature goes all the way back to Adam and Eve who first sinned against God and lost their innocence and goodness before God.

    Paul also speaks in Romans that everyone has sinned and so we fall short of God's glory (that is not being perfect before God). He also says that the wages of sin is death (both spiritually and eventually, physically for every person). This death that we earned is first spoken about in Genesis 3 with the commandment and warning of God to Adam and Eve.

    Paul also speaks about Abraham and how it was his belief and trust in God that made Him to stand justified before God even though a sinner. God had shared the Gospel with Abraham about a coming Messiah who would save mankind from sins. Abraham believed this gospel. So, Abraham's justification was not because he obeyed God alot, but because He believed God and this belief was based on the Gospel. He looked to being saved from his sins in the saving work of the Messiah to come.

    Paul goes on to say that the just shall live by faith. This means that we are justified by the righteousness of Jesus (who lived a perfect life and took our sins upon the cross to free us from the curse of sin (the wages=death) and arose from the dead to give us life in Him. Those who believe this and entrust their lives to Jesus in faith are justified before God because our sinfulness was exchanged for Jesus' perfect righteousness..... continued
  • Adam - in Reply
    Hello, I can offer an answer to your second question. God is a fair judge. It sounds like you, the creation, are questioning the morality of the Creator- that is dangerous ground. A more accurately phrased question is if someone who defiantly and blatantly denies God should be allowed to spend eternity with Him?

    Anti-God deniers want their cake and to eat it too. Wanting all the benefits of a Christ follower, with grace, heaven, but don't want to follow God or believe in Him, want to ignore God's word, and still desire to follow satan and hurt others while on earth. That's totally evil and a ridiculous expectation.

    A false premise in the question is "good man." No one is good except God. Someone who rejects the truth and denies God is hardly "good." All are sinners. Romans 3:23.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    thanks for reply. I don't read the bible so often, so forgive me. But since God is perfect and merciful, why does he abandon those who do not believe in him. After all, it is God who creates all of us, including those Anti-Gods. Is the belief so important to him?
  • Adam - in Reply
    Hello anonymous, are you the same person who posted the original question or someone else?

    Your question has a snuck premise like the other question I answered had. This time you assume God "abandoned" someone. A more accurate question is why do people abandon God? And when people abandon Him, why would they also expect to receive VIP service from God. God is not a genie in a magic lamp to serve people. Some are very selfish and want everything their own way even to the point where they think they are a god.

    Another snuck premise I notice in the question is that God created "anti-Gods." Not really. God created people and allows people to have freewill- freedom of choosing God or evil. People are responsible for their own choices, you can't have someone commit murder then blame it on God for creating them. That's silly. People often blame God for others having freewill, just like a cult of people in the US are currently complaining about freedom of speech- not their own, but others they don't like. But if that was taken away then the same people would instead complain about not having freedom. So, you can't have it both ways. If you want true freedom, then people will do evil. If there is such a thing as evil, then good must exist. Hope this is helpful.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    Hello, I'm inami. I can't log in. Regarding your answer, I agree with you partly. You know, not everyone has the chance to choose who he will follow. A typical example is those who are born before Christ, mentioned in 'Divine Commedia', Dante. He saw these poor guys in the hell. They did nothing wrong. I think they would follow God if they had a chance. But God didn't forgive them. Why?
  • Baker - in Reply
    Pardon me fellas , for stepping into the conversation but when Jesus died , He went to the "spirits in prison" and preached the gospel before he went back to the Father 1 Peter 3:19 . Prison is where all souls go that died not knowing , believing , abandoning or worse defying or hating , disobeying God like the fallen angels in the days of Noah where they are incarcerated 2 Peter 2:4 delivered into chains . He preached to all those who didn't get a chance to know him or Jesus, and To these He proclaimed His victory , meaning some repented and were forgiven their sins and saved . God didn't abandon them .

    Agreed "I wouldn't hold much trust & hope in Dante's Divine Comedy, as his Bible knowledge seems to be lacking. "
  • Adam - in Reply
    Hello again, people absolutely have the choice of who to follow and everyone has complete responsibility for their own actions. God is a fair judge. Some use an "I can't help it" excuse so they don't feel so guilty committing sin and following the world (satan).

    The last 5 sentences you wrote I don't know what you are referring to- it doesn't sound like that's from the Bible.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    Dante, in full Dante Alighieri, (born c. May 21-June 20, 1265, Florence [Italy]-died September 13/14, 1321, Ravenna), Italian poet, prose writer, literary theorist, moral philosopher, and political thinker. Dante's Divine Comedy, a landmark in Italian literature and among the greatest works of all medieval European literature, is a profound Christian vision of humankind's temporal and eternal destiny.

    " That they sinned not; and if they merit had,

    'Tis not enough, because they had not baptism,

    Which is the portal of the Faith thou holdest;

    And if they were before Christianity,

    In the right manner they adored not God; "--from Divine Commedia

    Not everyone!
  • Chris - in Reply
    Hello Inami. First off: maybe you can't log in (& it keeps coming up showing you as Anonymous), is because you may have to open a new Window (but in Incognito mode), and then sign in. You should then get the prompt to sign in with your name & password. That's what I had to do to get out of this Anonymous thing.

    Secondly, & in response to your last comment: I wouldn't hold much trust & hope in Dante's Divine Comedy, as his Bible knowledge seems to be lacking. Everyone is able to know God & draw close to Him. Those who lived before the coming of Jesus (as you mentioned), or those who lived on Earth not having received God's Laws or any knowledge of Him, are also without excuse. Why?

    As God alone is the Judge of our hearts, He only makes the determination upon those who respond to Him in His way. For Israel, they received the Law & the personal guidance & instruction by God through the mouths of the prophets. What did they do? They gave no heed to God's many warnings, they disobeyed God, they followed after idols - they did everything but to humble themselves & acknowledge they were sinners, not expressing faith & devotion to God. Those who did, such as Abraham, Moses, David, etc. all died, but God accepted them based on their faith & trust in Him & waiting for when their Messiah would come & full payment & restitution be made for them, as for us also. Read all of Hebrews chapter 11 & particularly note verses 13-16, 39,40).

    For those who have never heard of the God of Heaven or Jesus His Son (e.g. in unreached people groups), Romans 2:11-16 applies. Here, the Gentiles (non-Jews) who never received God's Laws or knowledge of Him, are also without excuse as their own hearts accuse or excuse their sins because the Law (& their own tribal laws) have showed them sinners. They may not have heard of God, but God hears the penitent cry of their souls to a Divine to save them from their sinful misery.

    And those living 'good' lives? They can never be good enough for God.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    Thank for your help. And your opinion makes sense to me. I would rather believe that God is more generous even if he isn't.
  • GiGi - in Reply

    I encourage you to begin reading the Bible starting with the book of Romans, then the gospel of John.
  • Anonymous - in Reply
    Thanks, I will think about it.

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