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Sister Gwen Johnson
It is about our conscience, it is to be pure, and you will not mess up, your words speak it is on your heart.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
When we are baptized in water in the name of Jesus the Christ/Messiah we are, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If you choose to be baptized in water you will have no doubt Acts.24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Water baptism is a rehearsal when we go under, we die to sin and when we come up out of that water in a newness of life. It will be just like when we die and are buried, we will rise up out of the earth with an incorruptible new body.
God bless, go for it, I would love to be there, you will have no regrets or doubt in your conscience you will feel the glow.
RLW
Acts 2:38,
To understand Baptism more, if your interested in studying it fully. I recommend searching "Bapti" in the [Search words or verses] tab, then it will show [Modify Search] big red button. Click, it. New options show, multiple tabs, tap [Partial Word Match] it should respond with= 91 instances 4 pages of where this KJV Bible app has every variance of the word, Baptism, Baptized, Baptize, Baptizing. Then I usually click the underlined phrase [Sort By Book Order].
You can Search using each word individually too, but those will be like 51, 7, 22, 4, instances, with repeating scriptures, for each word individually searched.
Hopefully this is helpful.
Do you have a pastor that you can ask to baptize you? You can speak with him concerning this to learn more about the significance of water baptism to a believer. You can also search online with a question like: what is water baptism all about and why is it important? You may get some good information there. If you feel led by the Holy Spirit to be water baptized, then do it.
Dwell on it Confess Romans 10:9+10 and believe it in your heart and you will
Receive power from on high or get born again of holy spirit. I personally have
Never been water baptised but I do speak in tongues. So believe and let Go
And let God or ad I like to say let r rip tatter chip figure of speech! Lol
Cornelius and his own spoke in tongues too, but Peter ORDERED them to be baptized in water
Acts 10:48
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit serve different things. Being baptized in one doesn't exclude you from the other.
GBU
If Pamela desires to be baptized, then no one should discourage her. It was never discouraged for believers in the Bible.
Required for being born again by grace. Read Ephesians 4:5 one baptism
I didn't write book.
Just says Paul Aries and be baptised water never mentioned so I'll stick with
Scripture and not add.
Doing things in the law when Pauls ministry started he taught salvation in
Jesus Christ not John's ministry then ask if they received the spirit and if
Not ministered to them. No where in the church Epistles are we instructed
That water baptism is absolutely needed for salvation, but receiving the spirit
Is. That is not saying I'm apposed to water baptism I don't see it ad required
Because that would be works not grace.
Let's talk about grace and works
What do we mean that we are saved by God's grace? We mean that salvation was offered to us through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. When is this salvation received by people? When we repent for the sins we have done and ask for God's forgiveness. If there is no repentance, is salvation still granted to people? No it is not. Again, in a condition of unrepentance is God's grace available to people? The answer is again no.
About water baptism. Is it a command from God? Yes it is. There are many verses throughout the Bible about that, I can not go through them but if you look to past discussions about water baptism you will find a lot of stuff, it has been discussed a lot lately. So if one does not want to be water baptized, is it considered disobedience to God's will? Is disobedience a sin? Is this sin forgiven if one doesn't repent and corrects himself? Is grace still available to him as long as one is in disobedience and unrepentance? We can agree, I think, that the answer is always no.
Is it considered as a man's work when obeying to God's commandments?
John 6:28-29 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent"
So Jesus calls it a work to believe in Him, so what do you think of that, is it necessary for salvaion (to do the work of believing)? Yes it is, also obeying God's rules is necessary for salvation, whether one calls it a work or not.
John 15:9-10 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
And I would like you to analyze to me the following verses:
Romans 2:6-7"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient continuance in well doing (good works) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life"
......Remember Legion the man with all the demons, he wanted nothing to do with Jesus...But Jesus cast the devils outta of Legion anyway....Jesus didn't care what Satan wanted....He paid the price for every man...As we are all bought with a price...his blood.
The foundation of our salvation, as you said, is God's grace, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. As you also rightly said good works do not offer people salvation. But after we have been saved we have to follow a specific course that God asks us to follow, to obey God's commandements, the dos and the donts. We have to obey God's Will. Isn't it so?
But when obeying God's Will, we actually do someting, we do a work. Example. God asks us to help our brothers in need and we do that. This is a work, isn't it? It is a work of obedience (to God's Will). Now, the question is, does that kind of works (of obedience) save us or not. If the answer is no, which means that works (of obedience) have no effect in our salvation, then the opposite is also true. Which is, that a lack of these works (twhich means desobedience) have no effect in our salvation. Conclusion? I can do anything I want, always disobey God, live in sin (after been saved) and everything is OK. Salvation is secured anyway since it doesn't rely on my works (of obedience). I am on a course to Heaven. Does this sounds logical to you? To me, no it doesn't.
Why have we come to such a conclusion? Because we call acts of obedience to God's Will as man's works that do not save. Which is not what the scripture means when it is reffered to works (or for Jews works of Law).
Obeying God is essential for keeping salvation.The opposite is sin. And the wage of sinning is death. The wage of sin remains death, it doesn't change to anything else just because we were sometime saved by Jesus. It is still death.Of course God does not condemn us immediately, the judgement will be done after our death, but who knows when that time is going to come for each one of us? So we must always be ready to repent and correct our ways
Salvation is not unconditional. There is always a condition for it. To cooperate with God. And that word "cooperation" can mean many things, like accepting Jesus' sacrifice, obey God's Laws etc
GBU
......So ya see Giannis we are 2 ppl...And we are involved in a war in heaven with satan and his tares...So sometimes we sin but there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the SPIRIT...The Wheat and the Tares war ever day thats y Jesus said there is gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...Thats y Paul said he had a thorn.( a tare ) in the FLESH.
.....But Jesus said AT THE HARVEST i will say to the reapers gather up the Tares and burn them....But gather the Wheat to my barn his Kingdom....But the 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been at war with the Tares that were within him.
.....Same thing with the 2 women grinding at the mill...The Tare are gonna be taken and burnt...The Wheat to the Kingdom
....So ya see Giannis we are in a war with satan and his Tares....Making us 2 ppl...But he that endures to the end will be saved....The End is the HARVEST...Paul wanted to obey but b/c of the Tares/thorn he cd not obey always thats y he said if i do something i do not CONSENT UNTO its not i that does it but sin that dwells in me..ok Gbu
Tares and wheat. Who is tares and who is wheat? Actually we are all tares before we get to know Jesus, that means we all have a sinful nature and cannot avoid doing sins, this is what Paul means about doing what he doesn't like to do. That is why we have been given Jesus' Blood to be forgiven and so we become wheat. But not everybody accepts Jesus' sacrifice, so some remain tares. As far as for the 2 men in bed, 2 women at the mill, this is about believers during the rapture, one is caught up the other is left behind. Why? Think of the 5 wise and the 5 unwise virgins and you will get the answer for that.
And something else dear Alex. A general observation for all of us.
A scripture must always be seen through the lens of other scriptures related to the same topic. That means that if one wants to get a doctrine about something in the Bible, he has to collect all scripture related to that topic (without leaving anything outside) and try to fit them together to succeed that. Often heresies are created because people choose to rely on some verses that fit their ideas ignoring the rest or even do that unintentionally because they don't know the Word of God in depth, especially true for new believers or for any other reason. That is why we have been given teachers and pastors in the church to perform that task. But some people think they are their ownselves teachers and pastors and don't need anything or anybody else; they believe the Spirit always leads them. But if this is true why do we have so many different beliefs since the truth is unique? My experience shows me that personally if I didn't join a reborn christian congregation many things in my mind would still be in a mess and confusion. I was tought a lot, God I believe revealed me some and so I came to where I am now.
GBU
Which is incorruptible i.e. eternal. And I can't take back being born of my
Parents Why would an all loving God reject a child of His I.E. us when we make
A mistake or sin. I have children who did stuff not of my approval but they
Are still my children. Now your right the wages of sin or broken fellowship
Is death physically, now when not in fellowship operating by the spirit were
Not walking by the spirit t that does not take away the sonship part of it because Jesus Christ
Paid for eternal life. So we are no longer sinners ones who have no connection
To God we are saints born again and headed to heaven and are no longer
Judged after the flesh. Now if a person decides to still live by the flesh not
God's Fault he did his job yeah let God be true in all that he does man is not.
Also remember the gift is grace now it's the receivers responsibility
Not the giver God completed us in Christ it's up to the individual to walk in newness
Of life or the old man nature Romans 7:15-25. The tremendous aspect of the
New birth is we still have freedom of will to walk by the revealed word i.e. the
Spirit or the old man nature choice we will still be rewarded for what we did right
At the bema all other works not judged because Christ paid for that.
God Bless.
Pentecost and Judas died by suicide before pentecost and was replaced by
Matthias. None and I mean none of the disciples were born again until
Pentecost because it was not possible until pentecost to have spiritual
Faith of Jesus Christ and receive power from on High.
Birth made available by Jesus Christ on day of pentecost and if that's the case
Again God Bless I'm m moving on because I don't deal with confusion.
Those in the Upper room at Pentecost were believers. They believed that Jesus was the Savior, that He lived a sinless life, died on the cross for us and rose up from the dead. That is the Gospel message, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.
These disciples, including the 11 apostles, were born again because one needs to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to be able to believe the Gospel message and trust in Jesus to save from sin. Many, perhaps all, of these disciples had been visited by the risen Lord prior to His ascension into heaven. The apostles had witnessed His ascension. They obeyed Jesus to tarry in Jerusalem until the promised Spirit came to them, which He did at Pentecost. They were in prayer when the Spirit manifested in the Upper Room with tongues of fire and caused the BELIEVERS to speak in tongues.
As Giannis said, Jesus called His apostles clean at the Last Supper. He also told them that the Father had chosen them and that had secured them to where they could not be snatched away from Him. So, even before the Last Supper, these apostles were saved (born again). They went out to preach the good news even before Jesus' death, performed miracles, and abided with Jesus daily during His ministry. These are all indications that these men where indeed born again. And one cannot be born again without the work and indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost was a fulfillment of Jesus' promise of God's (His) Presence with the apostles after He would be taken up to heaven. The manifestations of the Spirit at Pentecost was an outward sign of an inward work that was already present. Jesus breathed the on the apostles before the ascension, saying "Receive the Holy Spirit". The Holy Spirit only is received by a believer.
Therefore, there are multiple Scriptural references to the fact that the apostles were believers and born again before Pentecost.
They didn't become Apostles til after Pentecost. Just reading what's written
It is God's word they in the gospels are caled followers and disciples and brothers
But not Apostles, not going to argue with God who chose the words, they became after new birth Apostles. Take care moving on.
I believe that Giannis shared a Scripture during Jesus' ministry where they were called apostles. Either you accept what is plainly said in Scripture or you don't. That is up to you. As for me, if someone points out in Scripture something that shows me that my idea is incorrect, I will accept what the God has revealed instead of continuing to promote a view that has been proven as incorrect. On this topic of the apostles, Giannis showed you that she and I are correct on this topic.
Anyway, thank you for discussing with me on this. I do not wish to continue this topic concerning the calling of the followers of Jesus "apostles" because the Scripture Giannis cited told us the answer and so there isn't much point in continuing to speak about it, as far as from my end is concerned. Have a good evening, Henry. We will speak to one another again on another topic, I hope.
Of biblical history in the wai God dealt with man which is another aspect
Not taken into consideration in biblical research. Example patriarchs before
The law period then grace period in which we are now but that's another
Subject matter. Have a good evening.
Conclusion on the matter so again moving on. P.S. I did see my error but
Their Ministries did not start until pentecost biblically.
the disciples not the apostles the twelve were first called followers then disciples
But it was not until after Pentecost that they except Judas were called Apostles
Biblically also I know many people who were never water baptised in water who are
Born again of God's Spirit. So you have the privilege again to believe what you
Want I don't take that privilege away from anyone. Also I know all the places you
Will show me as proof but the truth still stands the birthday of the Church of God
When men received power from on High as permanent not based on works lest
Any man should boast all grace was pentecost. Now here's a question if Judas
Was born again did he lose it or what happened or because he missed pentecost
It was incomplete?
In Acts 1:13 it says that they were staying in the upper room. In Acts 2 it says that they were gathered all in one place. It does not say they were in the temple.
Many people do think that the Church began in Acts 2 at Pentecost, But many others believe that the Church began with the life of Jesus (for He is the Head), and the disciples were added as they were called by Jesus. Even before He ascended into heaven, Jesus instructed the disciples concerning the church in Matthew 16:18. He called Simon Peter, or Rock and said that upon this Rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. In this passage, Jesus said that the church was begun then and there, upon Peter's confession of Jesus being the Christ (Messiah), identifying Jesus' humanity; and the Son of the Living God, identifying Jesus's deity. The church was established upon this confession and anyone who professed this belief was part of the church Jesus was building. So, there were many who believed this before Pentecost. Jesus appeared to over 500 brethren before He ascended to heaven, as said by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:16. These were Christian brethren before Pentecost.
I realize we differ in our views on this and I do not wish to belabor this discussion further, but I keep in mind that when we discuss with one another that there are many people who follow the discussion on this forum who may not reply. It is for those that I present my viewpoint more so than to someone who is obviously set in their own viewpoint, as I am also.
Have a blessed day, Henry.
Point of view but I discuss I don't argue because Either you believe or you
Don't that's up to you. So have a great day.
Apostles because apostle is a term in the body of Christ after Pentecost?
Ephesians and God gave some Apostles prophets evangelist pastors and teachers.
Now to a degree throughout old testament certain men worked within one of these
Gifts and obviously our lord and Saviour operated All but the term apostle is not
Used until after Pentecost because. Before pentecost they were called followers
Or disciple for disciplined one. Also a qualification of an Apostle is one who had
Physically seen Jesus Christ of which. Saul who Became. Paul was one. Have
A great day,
Luke 6:12-14
"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named APOSTLES;"
Now let's see the definition of the word "apostle". It comes from the greek "apostole" which means mission and "apostolos" (engl. apostle) means missioner, one who is sent (by God) to missions(to preach Jesus to people and establish churches). So don't get confused by the name apostle, it is not a mysterious title, it is a specific service, it simply means missioner.
So apostle is a person who is selected by God to send him to missions, that is to send him to the world to preach Jesus and establish churches. The 12 were the only ones who were sent to missions? Of course not.Those were for the Jews only. Paul was an apostle too, to the nations. Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God, and an APOSTLE of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;"
Only Paul was an apostle to the nations? No not only him, all of his accompanions were, Barnabas, Luke, Timothy, Titus, Silas etc.
Also many others. Who established the church in Rome? In Collose? Not Paul, those churches were not established by Paul. Some other apostles(missioners) established those churches (although the Bible doesn't give any information about them). The 12 were the ones that lived with Jesus, the most formal ones, but there were many other who went and preached Jesus to the world and established churches. All those were not just disciples, they were apostles. Even in the following centuaries christians that went to all continents and preached the Gospel and established churches were apostles. As you said one of God's gifts to the church is the "apostle". Apostles never stopped existing in the church. Even today christians that perform that specific task are apostles.
Blood and out of condemnation suicided. What's interesting the other eleven ran out of fear also. So again thanks for bringing Luke to my attention but that does not
Change my belief that men being born again of holy spirit didn't begin until Pentecost the birthday of the church of Jew and gentile the mystery of the body of Christ. Done God bless
another subject in God's word. Good Day!
Well known Roman Catholic train of thought when the Church in the age of
Grace Christ Himself who the gates of Hell will not prevail against is the Head
Of the body of Christ not Peter. So I'm moving on take care Agapeo.
I was not saying that Peter is the head of the Church. I was quoting what Jesus said. And spoke that it was what Peter confessed that was the foundation of the Church of Jesus. Jesus was going to build His Church on this rock-the confession of Peter, not on Peter. You definitely misunderstood and misrepresented my viewpoint in your reply. I am good ending this conversation with you for today.
.....But back in John 20:22 And John 16 :21..He had already breathe on them, as his breath was his WORDS which are his SEEDS and Faith set in which is a spritual pregnancy..They had the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen..The Child the H.G. That Child of PROMISE....That resulted from his seeds his words....But the H.G. Child had not been born just yet till that mighty rushing Wind came..They had to go thru a gestation period b/4 the Child came and with Power....But Jesus said John baptised you with water but I will baptise you with the H.G. and fire...As our God is a consuming fire...When Jesus started his ministry he was preaching I come to bring FIRE on the earth...Thats his baptism of the H.G. That we so need..The 1 and only baptism of PROMISE..Which was the multiplication of God from Gods own Promise when he swore by himself.
.....Jesus in Acts 1:4 Wait for the Promise of my Father that you have HEARD OF ME ( SEED)...John baptised you with water but you will be baptised with the H.G. NOT MANY DAYS HENCE ...Baby