Bible Discussion Thread

  • Julie
    In a king James version of the Bible, creation.

    It said In my ( childhood ) Bible the king James version .

    The Gods created the heavens and earth. Plural: my aunt still has a copy of that. May I see that copy please.
  • Julie - in Reply
    The saint James Catholic bible does or did say the God's created the heavens, because with each new addition they change it. I have two of them that say that! I have looked as you did, and couldn't find that version on line either!

    Yet, I hold in my hands that very book!

    Religious suppression of information is what happened. That is why you cannot find a copy of it unless you have a copy of it. So now do you see why I have so many questions. I have so many more.
  • Richard H Priday - in Reply
    The word "Elohim" is the plural aspect of the Godhead. Since God is one; yet is in three forms (Father; Son and Holy Ghost) they were all involved in the Creation. This is why scripture states "let us create man in OUR image" ( Gen. 1:26); and later on states they know good and evil like us ( Gen. 3:22-loosely translated). Christ actually was the one who created all things ( Eph. 3:9); with God involved. Proverbs 8:22-31 seems to show wisdom personified by the Holy Spirit also presiding over things since before the beginning and in the Creation of the earth. (See also John 1:1). "Gods" may be the best way in human understanding to explain the Hebrew translation but it shouldn't imply that there is more than one true God despite 3 manifestations. Even that is imperfect but closer to explaining the mystery of the Godhead.

    In practical terms; when we see Christ at the crucifixion; it is clear that the universe itself ( Colossians 1:17) would have ceased to exist at his death if there weren't other members of the Godhead (not to mention that Christ would be praying to Himself).

    So the "Oneness" group is clearly offbase. We could say that God the Father came up with the plan of Creation; as well as the Crucifixion ( Isaiah 53:10) and Christ did the action. The Spirit is often in Proverbs personified as "Wisdom" crying out in the streets. It is seen in some sense as "hovering over the waters" ( Gen. 1:2).

    The important aspect here is that God in every form is Omnicient; Omnipresent and Omnipotent (All knowing; everywhere; and all powerful). He also will preside as this present world and it's elements are burned up ( 2 Peter 3:10). We can; mercifully rejoice that a new heaven and earth will be for us someday; according to Rev. 22. All the gods (small g) which are in reality representations of demons and or men's vain imaginations will be destroyed as well. God is the Creator; we are His Creation along with all angels and demons. Praise God.
  • Julie - in Reply
    I'm not trying to be difficult, just have questions about the Bible, that lead me not to fully believe in it.. I'm trying to understand the answers to my questions, so far you are the only one who can answer my heart with real answers. Instead of "well God can do whatever he wants"! I was talking to someone in the Billy Graham organization, that was her answer... So the next day, I went to the same person to whom I was speaking to for 2 weeks. It was not her! I asked where is Linda, they lied, bold faced lied to me! It was someone else pretending to be Linda. And insisting it was true. NOT, her way of writing was definitely not her... Lost faith in that organization. If you have to lie, then your misleading. So you see I'm desperately looking for answers!
  • Julie - in Reply
    I understand what you are saying, I found out that in the Catholic Bible is where it says the gods plural. So it is my understanding then that this is referring to the trilogy.! Thank you for that information!

    One other question that has been haunting me!

    God is love, and with that perfect love he cannot have any impurities around him.. then, why may I ask that it says in the Bible that God is a jealous God!

    How can that be, jealousy is an evil intent?
  • Alex N - in Reply
    Julie yes God is a jealous God...But thats b/c he is gonna be married to his ppl the Church...Humanity

    ......Remember the marriage supper of the lamb...He does not want us going a whoring after materialistic things

    or even the honor that comes from man...We must love him with all our hearts, minds, souls n strength, ...Nothin less

    then our complete cooporation is exceptable of HIM....The Spirit and the flesh are gonna be made 1 which is the essence of a mariage....GBU Julie
  • Chris - in Reply
    Hi Julie. I tried to search out Genesis 1:1 using the Roman Catholic Bible (from various Catholic sites), but all showed the words as 'God created' (not in plural). So apart from what Richard has given you concerning the use of the word 'Elohim', not much more could be added. Unless you can give us more info on that particular Bible you saw it in.

    I agree, that 'jealousy' is normally understood as a sin, but when we see it applied to God's Character, then we can understand that the meaning changes. When we see verses such as Exodus 34:14, Joel 2:18, & Zechariah 8:2, then we can better appreciate God's Nature - that He is not as a man is. I understand that this word has at its base, God's Character; not jealous in nature, but because of Who God is & His righteous demands upon His creation.

    When we read that God "is jealous for Zion", or "the Lord revengeth, for He is a jealous God", or "jealous for His holy Name", we see that His Character, His Holiness will not be compromised when evil abounds. If God overlooked sin & let Israel do whatever they wanted, then God would betray Who He is, thus He 'jealously' guards the Holiness of His Person & metes out justice when due.

    And when He is "jealous for Zion", it shows that Zion is His special possession & He will always look upon her with affection & protect her. In today's terms, we could say that 'a country (insert yours here) is jealous of her freedom', indicating that this jealousy is good because the freedom now enjoyed has come through much pain & suffering. Since it was so costly, it should be guarded so strongly (or, jealously). So, I hope you can appreciate the 'other' uses of this word.
  • Julie - in Reply
    Zion is God's possession. What does God need with possessions?
  • Chris - in Reply
    God doesn't need possessions as we understand it, 'having or owning things' that are necessary for our survival or happiness. In Psalm 50:10, God says: "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills." God owns all things He has created, even the special called-out people (first Israel, then those who've come to faith in Christ) & also that special city Jerusalem (Zion). Psalm 87:2-3 says, "The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God." According to this verse, Zion is synonymous with City of God, and it is a place that God loves. Zion is Jerusalem.

    Zion is first mentioned in 2 Samuel 5:7. Zion was originally an ancient Jebusite fortress in the city of Jerusalem. After David's conquest of the fortress, Jerusalem became a possession of Israel. The royal palace was built there, and Zion/Jerusalem became the seat of power in Israel's kingdom. When Solomon built the temple in Jerusalem, the meaning of Zion included the temple area ( Psalm 2:6; Psalm 48:2,11,12; Psalm 132:13). Therefore, the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:6, "Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God."

    Zion is also used in a spiritual sense in Scripture. In the Old Testament, Zion refers figuratively to Israel as the people of God ( Isaiah 60:14). In the New Testament, Zion refers to God's spiritual kingdom: Hebrews 12:22. Peter, quoting Isaiah 28:16, refers to Christ as the Cornerstone of Zion ( 1 Peter 2:6).

    Mount Zion, as a geographical area, is now the focus of much dispute (mainly between Jews & Muslims). The Bible is clear that one day Zion will be the sole possession of the Lord Jesus, and Zion, both the nation and the city, will be restored. ( Isaiah 52:1; Isaiah 60:14). When Jesus returns to Earth, His rule will be from Jerusalem ( Zechariah 14:1-4; Luke 1:32,33). I hope you can see why Zion is so important & especially significant in God's Eyes as a special City of God (on Earth).
  • Alex N - in Reply
    Julie Gods needs a wife a bride etc...Zion is the bride ....I john saw the holy city coming down out of heaven as a Bride adorned for her husband....There has to be an Israel of God JUST AS THERE WAS A Natural Israel ..via the seed of Christ sown in our hearts...Jesus told his disciples he needed the Donkey and her colt...Which is symbolic of the Church and her offspring the H.G...An Israel of God...The Woman and her CHILD...Remember John told the Pharisees,.... he that has the Bride is the Bridegroom....Which is Christ and the Church

    ....As God so loved the world that he gave us his dear son etc...Thus the blood of the lamb is to make us ALL CLEAN FOR THE MARRIAGE...the 3 rd day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee.
  • Julie - in Reply
    A marriage of God and Mary???
  • To Julie with much Love and Prayer - in Reply
    Julie, I've been a Christian 36 yrs this stretch. I was saved at 13, but I went awol for 22 years doing astrology. God had to intervene or I'd be dead.

    At first when I started reading in Genesis, heading towards the back, at times I thought God was mean. Finally I ran into the New Testament and I learned the Bible through the person of Jesus. Son of God. Things began to come together. God is our Father. In Hebrew He is our Abba (Daddy). He's full bore in love with us and wants us to love Him as much as He loves us. He saved me from certain death numerous times; He sent the angels to rescue me from all kinds of things. I do not worship angels because the Bible says not to.

    I say this with every ounce of love in my heart__lay down all of your past experiences (like I had to), lay it at His feet, and take firm hold on Jesus. Jesus died on a cross for us. If that's not Love, I don't know what else is. If you will take steps towards Him, he will close up the distance. If Jesus says God is Love, why would he make it up?

    I don't think comparisons are useful, regarding this church or that church. What matters is that you find peace in your soul, and the love of your Father in Heaven.

    It's about choices. Jesus said, Follow Me. He didn't say follow Peter, Paul, or a Pope. His disciples wrote the Bible on scrolls, which almost all of them have been found in Israel recently. Stories online with photos. Grant Jeffery went on many of those digs. He's deceased now. Nelson Walters continues the searches. Look him up on youtube.

    Israel will not allow those artifacts go out of country.

    The end times are here. Decisions are being made. I always thought Christians would see the beginning of the Tribulation, and we are. It's hard to change gears. Religion is man-made. We were all called to follow Jesus alone. We are His people. He said He would build His Church in His Followers. Get a KJV and study with us.

  • Julie - in Reply
    I do believe in Jesus and the Trinity of the God head! Just having a lot of trouble following the bible so blindly as the rest of you! I want to believe every word as you all do! Alas, I cannot yet!

    In the Bible they say things in there that I simply don't agree with. They act as though God was a being with emotional ranges. Love is love, nothing more! In it's pure form as God is, there is no room for other emotions. Because for God love and motion is what God is! He is the light of the greatest love. Unconditional love! Look at the prodigal son. We are taught that possessions and materialism are not Godly things, they are of our design, not his. How can one own the land? How can one own the sky? Yet we do, so say are evil governments. Too much hypocrisy is in the Bible. It was wrote by man to control man! There is however much good in the Bible. Mostly the words in red for me. And mostly from Matthew. Matthew was the only apostle that could read and write. Therefore I believe those words. The words in the Old testament, will put down in a way that wasn't meant for us to live. Jesus tells us that. I guess for me I'll still be searching! The answers aren't always just in the Bible. It's in nature and all that surrounds us. It's the Earth itself that God created. Not the bridges that man built.
  • Chris - in Reply
    Julie. Just to add briefly to Giannis' very good reply; if we seem to find hypocrisy in the Bible, rather than immediately tarnish the Word of God with such a description, we must first ask, 'am I actually understanding the Word correctly in this instance?'.

    Many of us here have spent much of our lives reading, studying & coming to grips with the Bible. Not everything is easy to understand & some things are downright disturbing. But when we are often given limited information, not understanding the times that people lived in, their govts, their problems, their persecutions, etc. etc., then we must approach the Word very carefully & prayerfully. You earlier asked about 'jealousy'. In my human mind, jealousy is an awful trait to have: it eats away within us & eventually destroys. But I hope we were able to see that 'jealousy' can also be a good thing, when its meaning is understood by its alternate definition.

    Then we have the problem with Old Testament life under God to New Testament life (through Jesus' Sacrifice) under God. Both can be quite different, though essentially similar when 'obedience rather than sacrifice (works)' is required. Many in the OT had several wives whom they loved & cared for; imagine that happening today, not just with abiding with govt laws on marriage, but the man having to work twenty hours a day to support his growing family. So, it's always a good thing to read the Bible with an open mind & seeking the Holy Spirit's help in understanding it. And by what you're doing now, i.e. asking questions, must also be a good thing so as to learn what others have learned. We're not always accurate, but it will help you to re-examine that difficult verse or passage again & stay with it until you learn what God wants you to learn, rather than write it off as being erroneous. I've found that God's Word remains sure - it's my understanding that's likely to be wonky. May the Lord guide you daily.
  • Giannis - in Reply
    Dear Julie

    Would you let your husband go with other women because you just love him and want him to be happy? Would you call this 'healthy' love'? Of course not. God has emotions like people but not sinful ones, actually people were created by God in His image.

    God is love, but God is justice as well, also truth. That means that nomatter how much love He has (He is), a lot of people will spend eternity in the lake of fire.. So His love is to be considered together with His justice and truth, not outside them.

    God owns everything, He created everything including people, everything belongs to God even our existence and souls; we come from Him. He breathed inside Adam and made him alive. Without Him none of what we see would have come into existence. So they are all His.

    Where do you see hypocrisy in the Bible, who are those who want to control others? The apostles? What for? All of them spent their lives in persecutions, lost everything they had including their lives. Some were crucified like Jesus, others got burned, others got beheaded, only John is said to die a natural death. So why want to control people? What for? For money, for glory, honour, possessions, what for? Not logical, is it?

    You have many questions, like all of us have. But the criterion to believe Jesus and His Word(Bible) is not to have all your questions answered. Questions never end, after you have some answered, other will emerge. And God will eventually answer your questions with the way He knows it's the best, sometimes that takes time to be done. Stay in Jesus' feet and your life, present and future(eternity) wiil be blessed.

    The following scripture is especially for you.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17

    "All scripture (means the Bible) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"

    God Bless You.
  • Mishael - in Reply
    To quote a woman who taught in my Church (Iverna Tompkins),

    **We come to God the easiest way possible.**

    For myself, I think I hit every cactus out there in that desert I used to live in. But it's ok. I found the One whom my soul loved; who loved me back to wellness.
  • Bible Versions - in Reply
    These say Genesis 1:1 as you learned in childhood.

    American Standard Version

    Genesis 1:1 (ASV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    Common English Bible

    Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha

    The Complete Jewish Bible

    Holman Christian Standard Bible

    Genesis 1:1 (CSB) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    The Darby Translation

    Genesis 1:1 (DBY) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    English Standard Version

    Genesis 1:1 (ESV) In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

    You might find it at ABE BOOKS online.

    Note in what country that Bible is in. Shipping might be a little more

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