Bible Discussion Thread

  • ZAKARIA ABDULLAH on John 16 - 2 years ago
    JOHN 16:13

    It is somewhat perplexing to note that not many amongst billions of Christians of various denominations could discern the true meaning and interpretation of the verse John 16:13, among others, which Jesus Christ had prophesied and roughly interpreted by Bible translators as the "comforter/advocate/helper/friend, etc." in various books of the Bible. To allude the object of the prophecy only to the Holy Spirit is, to my mind, a crude attempt to ignore and by-pass the Truth. The phrase "for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak," already hint volumes of probability that the verse refers to a man and not to a Holy Spirit. It would be absurd to consider sending the Holy Spirit anew for such mission when all along it was already present even before Jesus began his ministry.

    Moreover, the abovementioned phrase is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an's process of revelation. For being illiterate, Prophet Muhammad could not read what the "Holy Spirit" (Angel Gabriel) commanded him to. So, the whole Qur'an was dictated by the Angel Gabriel only for Muhammad to repeat what he hears being dictated to him. The few Christians (priests, ministers and church leaders) who had read and understood the Holy Qur'an, have all embraced Islam. Most, if not all, of the tasks referred to by Jesus to be undertaken by the one he would send through God Almighty, the Father, could not be handled by the Holy Spirit. It did not teach or bring anything new for the benefit of the disciples and lay Christians. All of the prophecies fitted hand-in-glove with the advent of Prophet Muhammad which not only glorified Jesus in the Qur'an, but including his mother, Mary.
  • Alex N - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    In my mind i see this John 16 : 13 as very enlightning...Jesus was telling them of the spirit of truth that cannot speak of himself and that is b/c the spirit of truth cannot speak for a while simply b/c he is a Child that is gona be born in us...An infant

    ..... Jeremiah 1 : 6 Then said ah LORD GOD behold i cannot speak for i am but a Child...Jeremiah cd not speak for a while and he was symbolic of the manchild the spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations...Jeremiah was just symbolic of that child of PROMISE which is the H.G. That is gona rule all nations...She brought forth a man child that is gona rule all nations...Rev.12 : 5 .

    ....This is telling us we much be bornagain,...We must birth a lil Child which is the H.G THAT IS GONNA BE BORN IN US...The spirit of truth is gonn be born in us via the seed of Christ Jesus...Thats y Jesus mentions the babes and sucklings as they cannot speak for a while.

    ..... Jeremiah 30 : 6 ..Ask ye now if a man doth travail with Child, Y DO I SEE EVERY MAN WITH THEIR HANDS ON THEIR LOINS AS WOMAN IN TRAVAIL....This is telling us there is an infant in our future a baby Christ...Thats y Jesus said these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes, infants that cannot speak for a lil while.

    .....Alas for that day is GREAT there is none like it it is a time of JACOBS TROUBLES...Who is this JACOB...Its the 3 rd person the H.G. that is gonna be born in us That heavenly Jacob the H.G that ISRAEL OF GOD...The spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations....But he is just an infant...our new born babe...But he is just like baby Jermiah that cd not speak for a while..

    .....Y am i telling ya all this, simply b/c we are gona birth the spirit of truth that Child of Promise..An infant that cannot speak for a while....He answers to Gal. 4 : 1 The heir as long as he is a Child he differs nothin from a servent THO HE BELORD OF ALL...but is under governors and tutors till the time appointed of the father...thats th H.G.
  • Spunky - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    I have to admit I have never read the Quran; therefore, I cannot speak on it. However, as a Child of God, I've never been led to read it or follow anyone but JESUS. God wrote the living word of the BIBLE and I have read it, somewhat studied it, and hopefully live to God's pleasing. With that said right there, and as a Christian, you drive a moot point for a Christian; for I cannot serve two Gods/masters:

    Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

    The BIBLE is the Living Word of God and is ONE Master/Holy Trinity. I'm sorry, but Muhammad/man doesn't decide who is "glorified" and get to write his own bible. From what little I have learned about Muhammad, he took similar teachings of God/Jews and manipulated them for his own following but claimed God; hence the conversation, division, and another book called the Quran.

    This is why there's only ONE GOD and ONE BIBLE --anything outside of this is deception or false. Sometimes it's so simple, but leave it to man to complicate/manipulate.

    I pray that you will ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you and His truth, not Muhammad's.

    Besides that, and here's the common sense of God's simplicity; where is Muhammad's name in God's book? Link

    On top of that you call him a "prophet," but yet God has no "Muhammad" in His book --that speaks volumes to me. Case closed. I pray it will you too.

    Truth Matters
  • Giannis - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Dear Zakaria.

    The versr you mention John 16:13 says exactly what which you don't accept. . That it is the Spirit who comes and guide us to all ..So how do you claim it is about some other person? You may get confused sometimes when you read the usage of "He" for the Spirit of God. This shows that you hardly know anything about the christian faith. God is one but at the same time three persons, The Father, the Son or Word who became a man called Jesus Christ and finally the Holly Spirit. Holly Spirit is a person not a thing. That is why He guides us and talks to us. If it were a thing it couldn't do such a thing But still I expect an answer from you. Quran says that Jesus was born by the Holly Spirit. Right? This is written in your Bible, isn't it? Thus the Spirit of God is Jesus' Father. So what is Jesus? Simply a man or the Son of God? Just think about it GBU
  • Chris - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Page 2 of 2.

    Finally, did Muhammed glorify Jesus in the Qur'an? Only as Prophet (Surah 33:7; Surah 5:46, & many more). He refused Jesus' Sonship (Surah 4:171; Surah 9:31). Yet, Jesus Himself spoke of His Sonship He had with His Father ( John 3:16; Matthew 11:37; John 17:1).

    So trying to find any inference to Muhammed in the Bible ensures a fruitless search - only found in the Qur'an & later documents. The Bible cannot be used to show Muhammed's coming or his work. Jesus came, His Spirit was then given and now the only prophecy yet to be fulfilled is the coming Great Tribulation on the Earth & then the coming of Jesus Christ, the Lord of Glory, to reign for a thousand years, when all evil will be bound & Satan locked away.
  • Chris - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Apologies for an incorrect Scripture. I shared Matthew 11:37 - should be Matthew 11:27.
  • Chris - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Page 1 of 2.

    Hello Zakaria. John 16:13 is also a verse used by other groups to find proof that their prophet is being spoken about. I'm also familiar with the Bahai's, as with Muslims, who also use this verse. Of course, the Bahai's will speak of their prophet, Baha'ullah & not Muhammed.

    As followers of Jesus Christ, we believe that one verse will generally have others to support it & this is required to get a proper understanding. If this verse speaks of Muhammed, then we should read further as to whom Jesus was actually referring to. Jesus often spoke of the Holy Spirit; in fact in the previous chapter ( John 15:26), He said similar words. So we know that the Holy Spirt comes from God & He is a Comforter. You can also check out: John 14:16,17,26 (The Spirit will also live in you).

    In Luke 24:49, Jesus tells His disciples to wait for the "promise of my Father"; wait, till "ye be endued with power from on high". When did this Power from God come?". Acts 2:1-4: (as the disciples waited, "there came a sound from heaven..a rushing wind..with cloven tongues of fire upon them..and they were filled with the Holy Ghost).

    These are but a few Scriptures to show you what Jesus promised would come, when the Spirit came, & what the Spirit would do. These words have nothing to do with Muhammed, Baha'ullah, or any other prophet or esteemed religious person. These verses speak of the Spirit of God, invisible, not human, indwelling those who belong to God, & God using them for His Purposes. This is not some "crude attempt to ignore or bypass the Truth". It is as the Bible declares. Any other inference is just man's vain attempt to distort the Scriptures. You can even ask, 'when did Muhammed ever come to fill a person & to even cause him to speak in unlearned languages & do works beyond human capabilities?
  • Giannis - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Well dear friend. Such conversatios you are seeking for cannot be made through posts. But I 'll tell you what a fellow christian who was an ex-muslim from Lebanon and now he is an elder in a reborn church, told me. He told me if a muslim ever talks to you about Jesus, then simply ask him. " Does the Quran say that Jesus is the Son of God?" Yes it does say that. "Does it say that He was born by the Holly Spirit?" Yes it does say that as well. Then ask him " Since Jesus' father is God, then Jesus is ... ?" I leave it to you to give an answer to this. GBU
  • Alex N - In Reply - 2 years ago
    2 nd Cor. 3 : 6....Who has made us able ministers of the New Testament not the written words..The letter the written words brings death but the living WORDS BRING LIFE....Spirits as Jesus said my words are spirit and life...much greater then paper and ink.

    Jesus said search the scriptures ( the written words ) in them you think you have eternal life but is them that testifies of me the living words the NEW COVENANT....The greater light is the living words that new COVENANT...The CHILDREN OF PROMISE....The babes and sucklings that are able to Praise God with a perfect Praise....Outta of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou has perfected PRAISE.
  • Alex N - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Zak i hope you can understand what i am saying....But Spirits can be born thats y the sower will go forth to sow his precious seed that Living word in our hearts....And thats y the H.G. cannot speak of himself he is just an infant...Simply b/c he is gona be born in our hearts as our hearts is like a womb where gestation can take place in the SPIRIT ...Remember Jeremiah saw this whole world in travail and birth pains...Jeremiah saw the Child that is gonna rule all nations which is the H.G. that CHILD OF PROMISE....The spirit of truth that is gona reprove this whole world of righteousness etc.

    .....When Jesus breathe on them that was his words which are his seeds that is gonna propagate a birth of Christ in us...The Son of Man...Mankinds fruit unto God...Roman 7 : 4 ...Then he told em b/c i have spoken these words his seeds sorrows have filled your hearts, when a woman is in travail she has sorrows but her sorrows are turned into joy after the Child comes.. Matthew 16 : 19 kjv...The Child is the H.G. THAT RESULTS FROM HIS SEEDS, HIS WORDS...HIS BREATH...But the CHILD is the H.G. that infant that cannot speak of himself simply b/c he is an infant...But whatever he hears in the SPIRIT he can understand and reveals it unto us his mother..
  • Alex N - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    Hello Zak...May i give ya my version of John 16 : 13 KJV....He cannot speak of himself is b/c he is a baby, a new born...Remember Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. that Child of PROMISE....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of GOD AS A LIL CHILD a New Born. ..You will in no wise enter there in.

    Thus he cannot speak of himself....He is just a living baby Spirit an infant which is the H.G...When Paul mentions that NEW BORN desireing the sincere milk of the word thats the H.G. Emanuel God with us....A baby infant .Simply b/c our new innerman has to be born in us via the seed of Christ Jesus which is the H.G. ...They don't refer to Jesus as the bridegoom for nothin...He wants to sow a seed in us initiating a birth of Christ in us...That New Born babe is the H.G. that cannot speak of himself....He is just an infant....I will give babes to rule over them and Children shall be their Princes.... Isaiah 3 : 4 kjv

    ......Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...She brought forth aman Child that is gonna rule all nations...Which

    is the H.G....That Child of Promise.
  • T. Levis - In Reply on John 16 - 2 years ago
    2Corinthians 11, false, deceitful, Galatians 1:6-9,

    Acts 4:12,

    True believers believe Jesus CHRIST

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