Here's a few verses that goes well with Philippians 2:12-13.
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:3-5.
Even in the old testament God put it on man's heart to will them.
And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I WILL PUT MY FEAR IN THEIR HEARTS, THAT THEY SHALL NOT DEPART FROM ME.
Jeremiah 32:38-40.
It takes an act of God to perform the greatest commandment.
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
I remember years ago driving by a church and there was this huge sign in front of the church that only had two words on it. I thought to myself that was silly to have such a huge sign and only put two words on it. And then I got to thinking, no, I am the one that is silly.
The sign said "Jesus Saves!" It got me to thinking. There is nothing I can do to save myself. Jesus saves people. And when He saves me, I am saved, eternally, everlasting! I have everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? It is not temporary. It's forever!
Don't let anyone try and take what you have (Christ) away from you. You have Christ living in you and He has promised to never leave you. As long as He is in you, you have eternal life (salvation). If Christ ever leaves you, then you've lost eternal life, you've lost Christ, because He is eternal life. He will never leave us and we cannot force Him to leave. That's how we know we have eternal life. That's how we know we can never lose salvation. If we lose salvation, then we've lost the eternal one that lives in us. Jesus says that will never happen!
You've touched on something very important. Once we're saved, the battle that takes place is for our minds. Satan knows he has lost us forever to Christ, and he knows that he cannot take Christ away from us. But once we're saved, our next step is to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So what Satan do? He tries to keep our minds distracted so that we won't have time to study the word of God because without studying the word, there can be no growth. Satan puts doubt in a believers mind about their salvation. He is the one that wants us to believe we can lose Christ. God's Spirit in us would never do that.
Yes, In Hebrews 13, Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you, and that's very important to understand. I will NEVER leave you. That has a double negative in the Greek text. Jesus said I will never leave you. That is, I'll never leave if you tell me to, not ever, (double negative). Nor will I EVER forsake you, (triple negative in the Greek text). In Greek, this denotes the strongest impossibility of something ever happening. Jesus will NEVER leave you. It will never happen!
If salvation could be lost, that would mean it is something we did to lose it. However, if it is something we do to lose it, that would also mean that we have the power to break God's will. John 6:37 tells us that we are given to Jesus by the Father. And Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him, He will in (no wise) cast out.
We see God's will in John 6:39-40. Everybody that the Father draws will come, and everybody that comes to the Son, Jesus will lose no one. It is God's will that not one single person who He has given to Christ will ever be lost or cast out. So, if we believe that salvation can be lost, we must also believe that that we are capable of breaking God's will.
I am running out of space, but will send another post as (Part 2).
One of the shortest verses in the bible, Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife." Lot's wife was saved, until at the last minute when she decided to turn around, why she turned around, we don't know, but she did, Genesis 19:26. The devil is in the world constantly tempting us until our last breath, as in Judas who was with Jesus for his entire earthly ministry, or as in
Luke 23:39-43, the one thief on the cross (whom I believe) was the devil tempting Jesus to come down from the cross and save himself, and the other thief on the cross rebuking him and saying that they deserved their punishment, and then asking Jesus to remember him, one was saved one wasn't. This is why it's so important to put on the whole armour of God as in
Ephesians 6:11-19,
Genesis 19:26 "But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."
I would Pray I or you never get the chance to ask Judas Iscariot. The Bible said Christ handpicked him, anointed him to heal and to cast out devils. I'm sorry for the Once Saved, always Saved Crowd, but Jesus made it very plain. Devils can't cast out devils. But Judas coveted that Money, 30 pieces of silver. And then that dark night ,last supper, The Bible says ,,Satan entered into him.
How many times have I or you heard, and Judas was never even saved. Then how did Satan enter in if he was already there? Hmmmm,,, Let's see,,, oh yeah , he backsliding and God left him. Acts said he died and went to his own place. Interpretation is this,, He made his choice,, he walked with God and lost out. Revelations says, because of neither being warm or cold, but tepid, lukewarm. It was sickening to God. You were in my Body, The Body of Christ, but I couldn't keep you down. So I literally vomited, threw you up. To get you out of my Body, The Body.
What of King Saul, a Prophet, a great physical specimen, a man that is touched by God. A gifted man, a man that God gives a group of men to help him who have been anointed by God. But the Bible says The Spirit of The Lord departed from him. It left him, and a demon prophesied over him, that He and his sons would soon join him in He'll.
Sampson ,The Bible said,played around with the gifts of God, that there came a Day in his Cockiness , He said " I'll go out as other times, sing today, teach,preach,shout, you better watch out. It's showtime at the Appolo. But then it said He knew not, that the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Him, left him. But in this instance, and Praise God, no matter how far or deep I or you fall. All that call upon The Lord Shall be Saved!!! But how many will call on him, even in the Church.
Sampson said, Lord avenge me and strengthen me just one more time. And he REPENTED. That's all it takes when Christians fall, sin, Godly Repentance. And God restored Sampson, and he died there with God
I firmly believe the answer to that is yes. A saved person is someone who has eternal life. How long is eternal? If salvation can be lost, do we really have eternal life? In reality, Christ did not give me eternal life, He gave me Himself, and He is eternal. That's how I can claim to have eternal life. It's because I have the eternal one living inside of me and He has promised to never leave me. There is nothing in scripture that tells us that we can lose our salvation.
Think of it this way: If you are saved, who saved you? Can man save himself? Salvation is all of God. Man has no part in salvation other than calling out to God to have mercy on them and to save them. It is God who saves, and it is God who keeps a person saved by His power alone. Man cannot save himself, and man cannot keep himself saved. We have to ask ourselves, is salvation from God alone, or is salvation a work of God and man? If we say it is God alone that saves, and we believe we can lose that salvation, at what point does salvation become a work of man? Again, man cannot save himself, and man cannot keep himself saved.
A person who is truly saved (Born of God's Spirit) will always be saved. Why? Because salvation is all of God. We (saved ones) are kept by the power of God. He has sealed us with His Spirit. The blood of Christ has purchased us, meaning we now belong to Him. We cannot break that seal. The owner of the possession is the only one who can break the seal.
If I were to believe that I can lose my salvation, can I truly say that I am trusting in Jesus Christ, the one who saved me, and the one who has promised to never leave me, the one who tells me that I am kept by His power alone? Think about it!
"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."
Reading that, it makes conclude that there is salvation in that church.
Now as far as the churches mentioned in Revelation are concerned, they were real churches at that time. Jesus pointed out their problems for them to repent. If now today many Christians take those things symbolic or that they represant churches during some periods of time, may be right maybe wrong, they are all assumptions. Some christians take it that way, others in another way. But the fact is that those churches existed at that time, so their pastors did. And Jesus addressed their real weaknesses.
Lets go to Philippians 2:12-13. The word that is in English "work out" is the Greek " katergasesthai" which means to work something to give it a shape. What shape? The shape (character) of Jesus Christ. But still it says to work having fear. What for? Also the word " pleasure" in verse 13 is wrong. The right translation is "will'.
The way I understand it is that since "the wage of sin is death" if smb sins and does not repent and stays in that attitude then his in a big trouble. God will do anything He can do to bring repentance to him ( this is when saying work in him) but He can not violate his free will, and if one chooses not to ever repent then the wage of his sin will be definitely death.(spiritual)
It looks like we come to a different conclusion on Revelation 3:3 and I am okay with that. Thank you for expounding some on Philippians 2:12-13. I still believe this work is not my work, but the work of Christ in me. He is doing the work. I am just along for the ride, and I do not say this to try to get out of anything because I know I have a responsibility. Jesus gave me a command to follow Him and that is exactly what I am to do. My position will always be behind Him. It is His work, and I am to follow Him. He will use me as He sees fit, but it's still Him doing the work. He get's all the glory.
Yes, the wages of sin is death. But that's only the first part of the verse. The second part, which I don't believe you intentionally left out says "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
What an interesting phrase and good memorization verse. But this summarizes the whole thing. The wages of "the" sin, because the Greek text has the definite article. Sin pays wages! And it is interesting that the Greek word for wages is what you pay a soldier with, only it's not money. It is provisions, or rations. So the wages of sin is death. How do you like that for a reward? It's like "Pick up your paycheck on Friday." Well, how much did I get? "Oh, complete death!"
The word for gift in the Greek is the word Charisma. Isn't that interesting? It gives us a good idea as to what the word charismatic means. It means the expression of God's grace. As you know, Charis is grace, and Charisma is when grace is in action. The gift of God is God's grace blessing us with eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. But if you notice, it is not a wage, but a gift. Sin pays wages. God doesn't pay wages. He gives as a gift. You can never earn it and you get full inheritance! I didn't earn salvation, God gave it to me as a gift. Would He ever take that gift back?
I'm sorry to hear that you (or anyone else) believes that someday you might lose your salvation
OK lets go back to the verse" the wage of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life .."
What does that mean? That eternal life is unconditional? I don't think so. There is a condition for Jesus's blood to be available to you. That is to repent. As long as you are in an unrepentant condition Jesus's. Blood is not abailable to you. So a Christian shouldn't think that no matter what he does, no matter how he walks everything is OK. It's not OK. I don't mean that when you do a sin God is immediately ready to send you to hell, but the way you walk is risky. I think you understand what I am saying
OK lets go to Matthew 6:15 "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." What do you make of that. If God doesn't forgive your sins , no problem at all? I think that thinking like you do one is in danger to consider that eternal life is ensured/secured no matter what he does, and that is risky.
Finally lets go to 1 Corinthians 9:25-27. Apostle Paul talks about himself as well. Pay attention to verse 27 " But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway". That word castaway doesn't ring any bell?
O.K it is well understood that there is a difference in opinions here, I do respect yours but not accept it. Sorry brother, no offense meant.
A gift is not a gift unless it is received. In order to receive the gift of salvation, a person must repent. I agree that if a person does not repent (make the decision to change the direction of their life), and they do not surrender their life to Christ, they can never obtain salvation. I believe that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all my sin (Past/Present/Future). I believe His blood covered it all.
Now, I know right away what some who are reading this are going to think, and you allude to this when you said "So a Christian shouldn't think that no matter what he does, no matter how he walks everything is OK. It's not OK."
It seems as that those who believe in eternal security are being accused of believing that they have a license to sin all they want because they are always going to be saved no matter what they do. I can tell you straight up, I do not believe that at all. You see, I belong to Christ. If I take on the attitude of what you describe, "that no matter what I do, no matter how I walk, everything is OK," and I have Christ in me, guess what's going to happen? He's going to deal with me and sometimes the chastisement can be very harsh.
In fact, that would be a good test (not recommended), but if a person wants to know if they truly belong to Christ, go out and start sinning all you want. If God does not deal with you, then it's time to start taking inventory and asking, "Am I really saved?" Did I have to do something? Yes! I had to repent. I had to surrender my life to Jesus Christ in order to receive the gift.
As for Matthew 6:15, am I to forgive others? Yes! But how do I have the ability to forgive unless God's Spirit gives me that ability? Without Christ in me, my flesh would be out for revenge. I forgive others because God's Spirit working in me gives me the ability to forgive. His Spirit never stops working.
And please know that you have not offended me at all.
Dear Jesse, I think I am not in total agreement with you on this topic. Salvation is only from God? To me, no. It sounds extreme but let me explain myself. So far in my christian life I found out that everything that has to do with our relationship with God one part belongs to man to do it and another part belongs to God to do it. God's part, as far as salvation is concerned, was to send his Son to pay for our sins on the cross. Our part is to accept this sacrifice. Later in our christian life Jesus's blood is still available to people as long as they use It, that is repent for the sins they do and ask for forgiveness. If we don't repent then we walk on the edge. If we keep staying in an unrepentant condition then we walk on the edge, If we don't obey God's commandments then we walk on the edge. If we have not a pure heart and play with sin and our salvation then we walk on the edge.
Please read what Jesus tells that pastor of Sardis in Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou LIVEST and art DEAD". Has he lost salvation or not? The answer is as long as he stays unrepentant he is in danger of going to hell. If he dies at that moment in that condition he will go to eternal darkness, nomatter if he was once saved.
Also read Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Why fear and trembling? I think the answer is obvious.
So salvation is not ensured/secured as long as we are in this body/life.
If I misunderstood your post I am sorry in advance.
No apology needed. You did not misunderstand my post. I believe and meant what I said. I've looked at the two verses you've shared. Revelation 3:1, and Philippians 2:12.
Revelation 3:1-6 is the instruction to the church in Sardis. This is the reformation church from 1517 to 1700. This is in response to the practices in the church; infant baptism, you couldn't have house worship fellowships, the worship of Mary, etc. God has nothing good to say about this church.
The evaluation of the church: I know your works, that thou hast a name that you are living, but you are dead. So they had some kind of a name. They said we represent the living God, we serve the living Christ. (That's what they said). But he says spiritually you're dead. No salvation there!
But you cannot stop at Philippians 2:12. You must also include Philippians 2:13, and here's why: In Philippians 2:12 he praises them. He says you don't obey just when I'm there, but also when I'm not there, so here's what I want you to do. Here's the command, the salvation process. And notice the literal translation from the Greek text: Be continually working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
It is a process. So from my earlier post, someone might say, "Now wait a minute now. I thought that we didn't have to work for our salvation?" We don't, and that's why I say that you can't separate Philippians 2:12 from the very next verse ( Philippians 2:13), which says, "For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
You know the Greek, so I think you will know this: The word "works in you" is the word energizing. For it is God who is continually energizing in you both to will, and to energize of His good pleasure whatever He thinks best. It's His energy. It's whenever He wants to energize my spirit for His Spirit to work in me. It's all according to His good pleasure. It doesn't have anything to do with my good pleasure. I'm just a vessel.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."
James 5:19-20 "BRETHREN, if any of YOU do ERR FROM THE TRUTH, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so FIGHT I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."
Hebrews 10:29
"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Salvation is a gift from God. The Blood He shed on the Cross, the Faith we had to repent and received His Grace...to be born again only truly happens once. You cannot undo what God has done. Only God had that power and He never says in His Word that Salvation could be removed.
Read the words from Dr. Ray Stanford (1916-2012) and he once said, "The moment you are saved, you become a member of the body of Christ. If you could ever become unsaved, part of Christ's own body would go to hell"
Now, what does the Holy KJV Bible say?
We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..." And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving.
If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?
Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - 1st John 5:13
Some believe because Salvation is eternal...we could go back to sin without consequence. No, there are grave consequences and we do not have a sin license because we have eternal security:
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid." - Romans 6:15
Be of peace, live a Holy life risen in Christ, read your Bible as they are our instructions for life and God bless you!
Jude 1:24. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
I concur with Brother Jesse
Here's a few verses that goes well with Philippians 2:12-13.
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:3-5.
Even in the old testament God put it on man's heart to will them.
And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I WILL PUT MY FEAR IN THEIR HEARTS, THAT THEY SHALL NOT DEPART FROM ME.
Jeremiah 32:38-40.
It takes an act of God to perform the greatest commandment.
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6.
God bless.
I always had a issue with thinking that I would lose my salvation.
But God said in his words that he will never leave me nor forsake me.
And today I still have to remember that because it still bothers me.
The more you read in God's words more that Satan will try to battle you and try to make your relationship with him worse.
(Part 2):
I remember years ago driving by a church and there was this huge sign in front of the church that only had two words on it. I thought to myself that was silly to have such a huge sign and only put two words on it. And then I got to thinking, no, I am the one that is silly.
The sign said "Jesus Saves!" It got me to thinking. There is nothing I can do to save myself. Jesus saves people. And when He saves me, I am saved, eternally, everlasting! I have everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? It is not temporary. It's forever!
Don't let anyone try and take what you have (Christ) away from you. You have Christ living in you and He has promised to never leave you. As long as He is in you, you have eternal life (salvation). If Christ ever leaves you, then you've lost eternal life, you've lost Christ, because He is eternal life. He will never leave us and we cannot force Him to leave. That's how we know we have eternal life. That's how we know we can never lose salvation. If we lose salvation, then we've lost the eternal one that lives in us. Jesus says that will never happen!
You've touched on something very important. Once we're saved, the battle that takes place is for our minds. Satan knows he has lost us forever to Christ, and he knows that he cannot take Christ away from us. But once we're saved, our next step is to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So what Satan do? He tries to keep our minds distracted so that we won't have time to study the word of God because without studying the word, there can be no growth. Satan puts doubt in a believers mind about their salvation. He is the one that wants us to believe we can lose Christ. God's Spirit in us would never do that.
Yes, In Hebrews 13, Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you, and that's very important to understand. I will NEVER leave you. That has a double negative in the Greek text. Jesus said I will never leave you. That is, I'll never leave if you tell me to, not ever, (double negative). Nor will I EVER forsake you, (triple negative in the Greek text). In Greek, this denotes the strongest impossibility of something ever happening. Jesus will NEVER leave you. It will never happen!
If salvation could be lost, that would mean it is something we did to lose it. However, if it is something we do to lose it, that would also mean that we have the power to break God's will. John 6:37 tells us that we are given to Jesus by the Father. And Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him, He will in (no wise) cast out.
We see God's will in John 6:39-40. Everybody that the Father draws will come, and everybody that comes to the Son, Jesus will lose no one. It is God's will that not one single person who He has given to Christ will ever be lost or cast out. So, if we believe that salvation can be lost, we must also believe that that we are capable of breaking God's will.
I am running out of space, but will send another post as (Part 2).
Luke 23:39-43, the one thief on the cross (whom I believe) was the devil tempting Jesus to come down from the cross and save himself, and the other thief on the cross rebuking him and saying that they deserved their punishment, and then asking Jesus to remember him, one was saved one wasn't. This is why it's so important to put on the whole armour of God as in
Ephesians 6:11-19,
Genesis 19:26 "But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."
How many times have I or you heard, and Judas was never even saved. Then how did Satan enter in if he was already there? Hmmmm,,, Let's see,,, oh yeah , he backsliding and God left him. Acts said he died and went to his own place. Interpretation is this,, He made his choice,, he walked with God and lost out. Revelations says, because of neither being warm or cold, but tepid, lukewarm. It was sickening to God. You were in my Body, The Body of Christ, but I couldn't keep you down. So I literally vomited, threw you up. To get you out of my Body, The Body.
What of King Saul, a Prophet, a great physical specimen, a man that is touched by God. A gifted man, a man that God gives a group of men to help him who have been anointed by God. But the Bible says The Spirit of The Lord departed from him. It left him, and a demon prophesied over him, that He and his sons would soon join him in He'll.
Sampson ,The Bible said,played around with the gifts of God, that there came a Day in his Cockiness , He said " I'll go out as other times, sing today, teach,preach,shout, you better watch out. It's showtime at the Appolo. But then it said He knew not, that the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Him, left him. But in this instance, and Praise God, no matter how far or deep I or you fall. All that call upon The Lord Shall be Saved!!! But how many will call on him, even in the Church.
Sampson said, Lord avenge me and strengthen me just one more time. And he REPENTED. That's all it takes when Christians fall, sin, Godly Repentance. And God restored Sampson, and he died there with God
I firmly believe the answer to that is yes. A saved person is someone who has eternal life. How long is eternal? If salvation can be lost, do we really have eternal life? In reality, Christ did not give me eternal life, He gave me Himself, and He is eternal. That's how I can claim to have eternal life. It's because I have the eternal one living inside of me and He has promised to never leave me. There is nothing in scripture that tells us that we can lose our salvation.
Think of it this way: If you are saved, who saved you? Can man save himself? Salvation is all of God. Man has no part in salvation other than calling out to God to have mercy on them and to save them. It is God who saves, and it is God who keeps a person saved by His power alone. Man cannot save himself, and man cannot keep himself saved. We have to ask ourselves, is salvation from God alone, or is salvation a work of God and man? If we say it is God alone that saves, and we believe we can lose that salvation, at what point does salvation become a work of man? Again, man cannot save himself, and man cannot keep himself saved.
A person who is truly saved (Born of God's Spirit) will always be saved. Why? Because salvation is all of God. We (saved ones) are kept by the power of God. He has sealed us with His Spirit. The blood of Christ has purchased us, meaning we now belong to Him. We cannot break that seal. The owner of the possession is the only one who can break the seal.
If I were to believe that I can lose my salvation, can I truly say that I am trusting in Jesus Christ, the one who saved me, and the one who has promised to never leave me, the one who tells me that I am kept by His power alone? Think about it!
Lets go to Revelation 3:3
"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."
Reading that, it makes conclude that there is salvation in that church.
Now as far as the churches mentioned in Revelation are concerned, they were real churches at that time. Jesus pointed out their problems for them to repent. If now today many Christians take those things symbolic or that they represant churches during some periods of time, may be right maybe wrong, they are all assumptions. Some christians take it that way, others in another way. But the fact is that those churches existed at that time, so their pastors did. And Jesus addressed their real weaknesses.
Lets go to Philippians 2:12-13. The word that is in English "work out" is the Greek " katergasesthai" which means to work something to give it a shape. What shape? The shape (character) of Jesus Christ. But still it says to work having fear. What for? Also the word " pleasure" in verse 13 is wrong. The right translation is "will'.
The way I understand it is that since "the wage of sin is death" if smb sins and does not repent and stays in that attitude then his in a big trouble. God will do anything He can do to bring repentance to him ( this is when saying work in him) but He can not violate his free will, and if one chooses not to ever repent then the wage of his sin will be definitely death.(spiritual)
Well that's my belief. Nice to hear from you
GBU
It looks like we come to a different conclusion on Revelation 3:3 and I am okay with that. Thank you for expounding some on Philippians 2:12-13. I still believe this work is not my work, but the work of Christ in me. He is doing the work. I am just along for the ride, and I do not say this to try to get out of anything because I know I have a responsibility. Jesus gave me a command to follow Him and that is exactly what I am to do. My position will always be behind Him. It is His work, and I am to follow Him. He will use me as He sees fit, but it's still Him doing the work. He get's all the glory.
Yes, the wages of sin is death. But that's only the first part of the verse. The second part, which I don't believe you intentionally left out says "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
What an interesting phrase and good memorization verse. But this summarizes the whole thing. The wages of "the" sin, because the Greek text has the definite article. Sin pays wages! And it is interesting that the Greek word for wages is what you pay a soldier with, only it's not money. It is provisions, or rations. So the wages of sin is death. How do you like that for a reward? It's like "Pick up your paycheck on Friday." Well, how much did I get? "Oh, complete death!"
The word for gift in the Greek is the word Charisma. Isn't that interesting? It gives us a good idea as to what the word charismatic means. It means the expression of God's grace. As you know, Charis is grace, and Charisma is when grace is in action. The gift of God is God's grace blessing us with eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. But if you notice, it is not a wage, but a gift. Sin pays wages. God doesn't pay wages. He gives as a gift. You can never earn it and you get full inheritance! I didn't earn salvation, God gave it to me as a gift. Would He ever take that gift back?
I'm sorry to hear that you (or anyone else) believes that someday you might lose your salvation
OK lets go back to the verse" the wage of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life .."
What does that mean? That eternal life is unconditional? I don't think so. There is a condition for Jesus's blood to be available to you. That is to repent. As long as you are in an unrepentant condition Jesus's. Blood is not abailable to you. So a Christian shouldn't think that no matter what he does, no matter how he walks everything is OK. It's not OK. I don't mean that when you do a sin God is immediately ready to send you to hell, but the way you walk is risky. I think you understand what I am saying
OK lets go to Matthew 6:15 "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." What do you make of that. If God doesn't forgive your sins , no problem at all? I think that thinking like you do one is in danger to consider that eternal life is ensured/secured no matter what he does, and that is risky.
Finally lets go to 1 Corinthians 9:25-27. Apostle Paul talks about himself as well. Pay attention to verse 27 " But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway". That word castaway doesn't ring any bell?
O.K it is well understood that there is a difference in opinions here, I do respect yours but not accept it. Sorry brother, no offense meant.
GBU
A gift is not a gift unless it is received. In order to receive the gift of salvation, a person must repent. I agree that if a person does not repent (make the decision to change the direction of their life), and they do not surrender their life to Christ, they can never obtain salvation. I believe that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all my sin (Past/Present/Future). I believe His blood covered it all.
Now, I know right away what some who are reading this are going to think, and you allude to this when you said "So a Christian shouldn't think that no matter what he does, no matter how he walks everything is OK. It's not OK."
It seems as that those who believe in eternal security are being accused of believing that they have a license to sin all they want because they are always going to be saved no matter what they do. I can tell you straight up, I do not believe that at all. You see, I belong to Christ. If I take on the attitude of what you describe, "that no matter what I do, no matter how I walk, everything is OK," and I have Christ in me, guess what's going to happen? He's going to deal with me and sometimes the chastisement can be very harsh.
In fact, that would be a good test (not recommended), but if a person wants to know if they truly belong to Christ, go out and start sinning all you want. If God does not deal with you, then it's time to start taking inventory and asking, "Am I really saved?" Did I have to do something? Yes! I had to repent. I had to surrender my life to Jesus Christ in order to receive the gift.
As for Matthew 6:15, am I to forgive others? Yes! But how do I have the ability to forgive unless God's Spirit gives me that ability? Without Christ in me, my flesh would be out for revenge. I forgive others because God's Spirit working in me gives me the ability to forgive. His Spirit never stops working.
And please know that you have not offended me at all.
Please read what Jesus tells that pastor of Sardis in Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou LIVEST and art DEAD". Has he lost salvation or not? The answer is as long as he stays unrepentant he is in danger of going to hell. If he dies at that moment in that condition he will go to eternal darkness, nomatter if he was once saved.
Also read Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Why fear and trembling? I think the answer is obvious.
So salvation is not ensured/secured as long as we are in this body/life.
If I misunderstood your post I am sorry in advance.
Have a nice day. GBU
No apology needed. You did not misunderstand my post. I believe and meant what I said. I've looked at the two verses you've shared. Revelation 3:1, and Philippians 2:12.
Revelation 3:1-6 is the instruction to the church in Sardis. This is the reformation church from 1517 to 1700. This is in response to the practices in the church; infant baptism, you couldn't have house worship fellowships, the worship of Mary, etc. God has nothing good to say about this church.
The evaluation of the church: I know your works, that thou hast a name that you are living, but you are dead. So they had some kind of a name. They said we represent the living God, we serve the living Christ. (That's what they said). But he says spiritually you're dead. No salvation there!
But you cannot stop at Philippians 2:12. You must also include Philippians 2:13, and here's why: In Philippians 2:12 he praises them. He says you don't obey just when I'm there, but also when I'm not there, so here's what I want you to do. Here's the command, the salvation process. And notice the literal translation from the Greek text: Be continually working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
It is a process. So from my earlier post, someone might say, "Now wait a minute now. I thought that we didn't have to work for our salvation?" We don't, and that's why I say that you can't separate Philippians 2:12 from the very next verse ( Philippians 2:13), which says, "For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
You know the Greek, so I think you will know this: The word "works in you" is the word energizing. For it is God who is continually energizing in you both to will, and to energize of His good pleasure whatever He thinks best. It's His energy. It's whenever He wants to energize my spirit for His Spirit to work in me. It's all according to His good pleasure. It doesn't have anything to do with my good pleasure. I'm just a vessel.
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."
James 5:19-20 "BRETHREN, if any of YOU do ERR FROM THE TRUTH, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so FIGHT I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."
Hebrews 10:29
"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race"
Read the words from Dr. Ray Stanford (1916-2012) and he once said, "The moment you are saved, you become a member of the body of Christ. If you could ever become unsaved, part of Christ's own body would go to hell"
Now, what does the Holy KJV Bible say?
We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..." And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving.
If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?
Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - 1st John 5:13
Some believe because Salvation is eternal...we could go back to sin without consequence. No, there are grave consequences and we do not have a sin license because we have eternal security:
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid." - Romans 6:15
Be of peace, live a Holy life risen in Christ, read your Bible as they are our instructions for life and God bless you!
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