Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Ren on Revelation 3 - 1 year ago
    Does great tribulation come before the rapture? Or are the chosen for the rapture, taken before tribulation?

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  • Giannis - In Reply on Revelation 3 - 1 year ago
    Dear Lau.

    I think the passage that you mention in your post is about the second coming of Jesus at the end of the 7 years that the antichrist rules on earth. Pay attention to V29 and V30

    " V29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    V30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.".

    Why do tribes mourn? Because they accepted the mark of the beast.

    For what Paul call Rupture see Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left"

    What is one doing in the field? The answer is working. But if he didn't accept the beast's mark how is he working, how does he get paid or how can he sell his goods and buy other, and if he did get the mark how is he going to be grabed to the sky?

    My opinion is that rupture occurs before tribulation. Also Daniel has some good arguments in his post.

    GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply on Revelation 3 - 1 year ago
    Dear Ren

    Please read Matthew 24:36-44. Pay attention to verses 38 and 39. (Also Luke 17:26-27). Jesus says in simple words that on the day He comes people will deal with their everyday works just as another ordinary day in this world. So it is obvious that that day can not be at the end of the week (7 years) that the antichrist will rule on earth because at that time catastrophies, disasters, word war, hunger and death (tribulation) will happen on earth. People will be frightened to death of the happenings to come on earth.(See Luke 21:25-27).They are not ordinary times when people have their everyday life. Jesus talks about some other time that life on earth is normal with people doing their normal activities.

    Please read Luke 21:34-35 Jesus warns us, His disciples, to be careful to be ready when He comes and not to allow cares of this life to make us loose and unprepared. But we know in Revelation people will have to put on themselves the mark 666 so to be able to buy and sell. How is then possible for christians to care for things in this world? During the time of antichrist christians will hide to save their lives from the beast. they will be slaughtered. So the coming of Jesus to grab His church is a different day from the day He comes with His saints and angels to beat the army of antichrist in the fight of Armagedon. It precedes tribulation, it is still a good time.. So when is that time that Jesus comes to grab His church? Read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. Pay attention to verses 6, 7 and 8. Here it says that the antichrist will not appear until somebody who prevents him is taken out of this world. The most usual explanation is that "he to be taken out" is the Holly Spirit. And since the church can not exist without the Holly Spirit, the church has to go as well. Satan can not rule on earth as long as the church is in the world. We have authority on him. Many can be said but not in a post.

    GBU
  • Daniel - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Unfortunately, the majority modern churches deny pretribulation rapture. It does indeed occur before the tribulation.

    "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." - Revelation 3:10

    The hour of temptation are the events preceding the rapture which include the rising of the anti-christ and the mark of the beast. Many will misinterpret the above verse to mean something else. But it's clear God never intended for His church to suffer through the tribulation.

    You'll see many comments after my post by those who've accepted modern preaching of replacement theology. Don't let your heart be troubled or confused. I'll leave God's Word to conclude...

    Mark 13:32-37, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

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  • Rene - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thank you
  • T. Levis - In Reply on Revelation 3 - 1 year ago
    Please read Revelation 8, note also 8:6, Revelation 9, Revelation 10, note Revelation 10:7, 1Corinthians 15:52, 1Thessalonians 4:16, READ in context

    Jeremiah 4:13, Daniel 7:13, Joel 2, Zephaniah 1, note: Zephaniah 1:14-17, Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 1:7, Amos 5:18-20

    Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37,



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