Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Linda S Quinonez - 2 years ago
    in revelations who is the one hundred forty four thousand
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    God chose 12 apostles for His purposes but He did not pick the purest of the pure when He did. You might could say He scraped the bottom of the barrel to select some of them.

    Likewise, when the Church age comes to an end around the time of the tribulation, or time of Jacob's trouble spoken of in Jeremiah, God will select 12,000 believing Jews from each of the 12 tribes to live through the tribulation.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The obvious answer is that they are descended from the 12 tribes of Israel; and go forth to proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom in the Tribulation. There are those who would suppose through say; the book of James that it is referring to those who are in the early church which started off among the Jews in the 1st Century. However; Paul in scripture made it clear that Gentiles at this time are "grafted in" to the vine of the Jews in whom the promises and covenants were made originally. It also says toward the end of Romans that there is blindness in part until the "fullness of the Gentiles comes in." ( Romans 11:25). This surely could be a reference to the Rapture; although as for those physically ALIVE at the time the Gentiles are done overrunning Jerusalem would be the time of national repentance; likely occurring as Zechariah 14 indicates when the Lord is about to return and half of Jerusalem is taken.

    There are comments about Dan as being absent because of the reference made prophetically by Moses to them being "as a serpent"; this would indicate sins; and also there are those who say Antichrist himself comes from that tribe. Nonetheless; the time of Jacob's trouble ( Jeremiah 30:7) would indicate the testing or refining of the nation as a whole; where "two thirds perish; and one third" are refined in the fire ( Zech 13:8). The two prophets who also are also preaching and themselves causing plagues and are indestructible but killed and resurrected after Antichrist becomes possessed with the demon from the pit will be around also. It appears the 144,000 that appear in heaven are translated; although it cannot be ruled out that they are martyred. Nonetheless; there hasn't been a group sealed and spared from God's disasters in the whole world before this event.

    It will be more preaching on declaring God's Kingdom arriving on earth than the gospel; as by the sixth seal clearly there are no more atheists on the earth.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7 were sealed while on earth before the fiery judgments began, indicating they were to be protected in some ways from the death and destruction that was coming.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 years ago
    What I meant was if Romans means that we are all kept from the wrath of the entire Tribulation; then all believers are raptured beforehand. If this is true; we also need to warn against having works burn up and "making it as though through the fire" and having no reward. That could mean also literally being taken through the Tribulation fire because we were "foolish virgins"; but again I can see arguments both ways on that. In any event; predestination makes up the whole framework in Revelation as to ALL who worship the Beast taking the Mark. There is also the concept of some escaping judgment and others being saved THROUGH it; at least from failing in their faith. Backing up my theory here; we see those like Lot barely escaping; and the 3 wise men with Daniel where people went through the fire and weren't hurt; and those such as Daniel Himself; and Abraham from afar witnessing the events; along with Elijah who could be an analogy to those raptured out of trouble (and Elisha who didn't want to think about these things and those with him that insisted on looking for Elijah's body afterwards being like those foolish virgins left behind). Just a thought...
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 years ago
    I haven't looked at these passages in some time; although it was my favorite book as a new believer. You are probably right; although chapter 7 shows the INITIAL sealing of these 144,000 probably AFTER the martyred souls of the fifth seal are seen UNDER the altar. I had thought originally that the multitude was those who were witnessed to; but it seems another option makes more sense. It isn't popular; but I believe that most of the initial martyrs are believers who are left behind. This takes into account the warnings in Luke and Revelation 3 about being worthy to escape what is coming to pass on the whole earth. Not every believer has their garments pure and unspotted as Ephesians 3 seems to indicate; and thus it would seem that those who HAVE garments are believers that need it purified by being put "through the fire" as it were. I understand the emphasis on us being saved from wrath; but we also have to take into account that people are saved during the Tribulation who are saved from the DIRECT wrath in the bowls. Also the seals are opened by Christ Himself; and Antichrist Himself is a "strong delusion" but meant to deceive those who don't LOVE the truth. (sorry for all the shouting). One thing for sure-not everyone who thinks that they are "rapture ready" or even truly saved at present will make the rapture; but a subset of those may be later. There is the obvious danger of using that theory to put off now walking in Christ.

    Anyway; Rev. 14 shows that at some point (probably close or synonomous with the translation of the 2 witnesses) the 144,000 appear at the throne (not under it as I thought at first) hence they are in a sense raptured. They are; after all part of the "firstfruits". As to the multitude; the time frame is a bit hard to get-it may be the end of the Church age to allow the Jews to witness during the time of Jacob's trouble; or signify an event AFTER the 144,000 preach. Nice just to talk about this; as most have fallen asleep.
  • Danielle Abraham - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The one hundred and forty thousand is the faithful servants who keep God's Ten commandments. I know we as humans are not perfect in any way. But God sent his only begotten Son to intercess for us for when we do fail and we are able to repent wholeheartedly our sins against God. I am now studying the book of Revelations: a Revelation of Jesus Christ. Those who decide to not keep his seventh day holy is also an abominatin to God's commandemnts. I know many in modern days go to church on sunday to honor God but in truth it is an abomination because the seventh day is sanctified by God himself. sunday is the first day of the week. I am and have recently found this out in the last couple of years. I know honor God's Sabbath Day from friday evening to satuday evening. I stay home and study and read and learn more about how I can be in truth with God my savior. It was hard in the beginning but soon I made a plan to get the things I would need before the weekend groceries and gas other shopping to be done as before I would go shop on saturdays or travel to shop in a bigger town. Its all about change and the majority of this society doesnt like change unless they materially benefit from it. So in answering your question because it will be 140k of His true followers whom will keep his commandments.

    Happy Sabbath Day



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