Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Roy on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    A question not related to Mathew or even to the New Testament but to the Old Testament and that relates to the extreme long levity of many of the people referred to.

    Is there some different interpretation or understanding as to how long a year was during the era of the Old Testament?

    Medical evidence suggests that the average life of a man at that time would probably have been less than 30 years.

    Thanks for your help

    Roy
  • Cissi - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Hi Roy, Before the flood the diet was only fruit of the vine and herbs of the field. After the flood animal meat was allowed, but only clean animals, as the unclean animals feed off other animals (alive or dead) and can cause us to get diseases as a result. They lived hundreds of years before the flood and the Bible tells us that we are given up to 80 years for a life span (anything over is a plus, right?) At different stages of history that has been shorter or longer due to famines, disease, and war, but the Bible clearly states in Psalms 90:10 how long a lifespan for man. A Hebrew year was 360 days. Hope this helps, Cissi
  • Roy - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Cissi

    Thank you for your reply and yes most helpfull

    Regards

    Roy
  • Roy - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Ty for me the biblical reference is not that important it is the thoughts and the logic behind the interpretation that is important.

    I will throw another one at you and this is surely a "curved ball".. Here in Europe we are very closely watching the war in Ukraine and I see references to Mr Putin having amassed 190,000 troops on the borders of the Ukraine.

    I then think about GOD leading the People of Israel, all 650,000 of then being solders (20-60 age group by census) amassed on the very limited borders of the Promised land as in Canaan and all within sight of the Cloud of God above the tabernacle- so lets say within a maximum on a front of 50 miles.

    Now Mr Putin is reportedly already having logistics problems even with all the advantages of modern rapid deployment forces and mobility. Think about the problems that the leaders of the tribes of Israel had trying to fine - if nothing else simply firewood to cook food for 650,000 soldiers and also their dependents which surely amounted to at least another 4000,000 people. Think of the logistics of sanitation in a desert!

    I away your comments with great interest.

    Best regards Roy

    PS for your information I am a very late awakening Christian having deviated from the path so much and so far for so long that I now wonder how I could ever have been to be allowed to come even close to understanding what it means to believe. I am 80 years old and it is only in the last 7 or 8 years that I have returned to somewhere that I should have been 70 years ago and was not. It took a very short sharp reminder that I need help and the only place that was able to provide that was a Christian church in Malaysia where I went as a deeply worried person to seek solace AND RECEIVED IT!

    The challenges in insurmountable to man!
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hello Roy. Thank you for your comments - Praise the Lord for giving you this late awakening & a hunger for Him & His Truth; & no doubt you will use these ensuing years well to increase in faith, love & knowledge of the Lord.

    I agree, the logistical problems for Moses would have been tremendous & doomed for failure if it were not for the Lord's Intervention: from the Lord Who called them, liberated them, & promised to guide & keep them. Considering the great company of people (possibly around 2 million) travelling in mainly desert conditions, we find that the Lord undertook wonderfully.

    I feel that the march towards Canaan did not have a wide front of 50 miles or so. That it was probably more of a column march, with a front of say, half a mile & the column extending for many miles. I have nothing to substantiate this, just using the accepted pattern that gives the leader control, order, & communication (just as with a large army regiment marching towards an enemy position). We remember that when the Israelites marched forward, they went in their Tribes behind their leaders (indicating control & care given to a 'smaller' group rather than one person miles ahead trying to oversee all of them), Numbers 2:34.

    For their food, Exodus 16:35 tells us that God provided manna for them for the forty years & in their complaining about it, the Lord also gave them quails ( Numbers 11:32). And for their water, again it was provided for them (whether casting a stick into bitter water to make it sweet, or water from a rock, or even from springs & oases along the way). For sanitation, probably a screened off area at each place they rested. It certainly was a difficult life, even as many mourned for the relative comforts & food of Egypt, & many died for their disobedience & complaining - they failed to really trust God to continue to demonstrate His Mighty Arm, both in their travels & when having to face their enemies in the future. Would we be any different in those circumstances?
  • Roy - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Chris

    Thank you very much for your response and to answer your question " Would we have been any different" my answer is most certainly not.

    Roy
  • RichFairhurst - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    I would also point out that the first 6 generations all lived 895 to 930 years, with Afam living the longest of those generations.

    Genesis 5:5,8,11,14,17,20

    The next 3 generations had widely varying ages. Enoch lived 365 years and was translated rather than died - Genesis 5:23. Enoch is the first clearly identified prophet and his age and ages of the next two generations that died before the flood had prophetic significance. Enoch's age is a solar year of days as we now understand it, even though there is strong evidence that at that time a lunar calendar with years of 360 days was used. Methuselah lived the longest at 965 years - Genesis 5:27. Methuselah died the year the flood came and I believe his name means "When he dies it will come". Lemach lived 777 years and died 5 years before the flood - Genesis 5:31. I should not need to point out the significance of the number 7 in prophesy.

    Noah is the last generation to live over 900 years at 950 years - Genesis 9:29.

    The generations after Noah all have significantly shorter life spans after the flood. I believe this due in part to the loss of the water vapor canopy surrounding the entire earth that was created on the second day of creation. That canopy I believe protected mankind from virtually all solar radiation. Volcanic activity that condensed the canopy and that ultimately broke up the waters of the great deep also increased particulates in the atmoshere. Increased solar radiation and particulates probably contributed to increased mutations and cancers in both man and animals. The removal of the canopy also introduced seasons and a wider variations in global temperature zones along with seasonal extremes leading to famine. Combined with a change from a purely vegetarian diet to an omnivorous diet, new pathways for cross-species transmission of viruses of other disease agents may have created more pestilence. The division at Babel led to more wars. The birth pangs of Revelation took hold.
  • Roy - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Thank you for your response and the logical position you offer . Most definitely food for thought.

    Regards Roy
  • RichFairhurst - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    I wanted to clarify that astrological seasons existed before the flood from the creation of heavenly bodies on the 4th day. The ability to measure life spans in years also came from astrological observations beginning with Adam. The vapor canopy would have made seasonal variations in heat and cold much less extreme. It also appears rain occurred for the first time at the flood. Prior to that a mist watered the entire earth, which would have been more gentle and dependable.

    However, after the flood seasons became clearly associated with greater variations in heat and cold, rain and much more distinct planting and harvesting cycles. Additionally the number of observable stars increased. Man's dependence on tracking the seasons rose in importance for survival and the heavens became more fascinating, which contributed to connecting worship with men that possessed some understanding of the heavens. They led man in a transference of worship from God to the visible objects that held sway over human lives. Thus Babel and man's desire to aspire to greater knowledge connecting man to the heavens corrupted worship and led God to judge mankind with divisions that shifted their focus away from having a single culture unified in such false worship.

    There is actually a lot of clues on how significantly the world changed after the flood that prove Peter's point that the world Noah inhabited was truly destroyed and a new world emerged. Stating all things have continued unchanged from the beginning of creation and that all can be known by projecting all currently observable processes infinitely into the past is a lie. If you had never seen an egg and only projected what you could now see in an omelet infinitely into the past, would you come up with an egg?
  • Roy - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Hi Rich

    Fascinating dialogue and a brand new line of thought for me to consider. I appreciate the time you have taken to deliberate on my question and provide me with this opportunity to widen my thinking.

    Very best regards Roy
  • Ty - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Hello Roy,

    Wonderful question and I would suspect that the majority of us have pondered this at some moment in our lives.

    Over the years I have read(heard) many illogical and unbiblical answers. So what we all would like to know is how did Noah really live to be 950 years old!? Was the length of a year different? Did the Earth spin faster?(small joke)

    I will offer what I believe to be a biblical view that coincides with many a scripture.

    Romans 8:13-17

    We know that the first man in creation, being Adam, was formed in God's image, His perfection. Man formed in perfection. The closer we get to the first generations of God's creation the more God-like I believe they must have been.

    Galatians 3:13 Jeremiah 17:5-6

    Once sin began to take course the following generations began to suffer. As time passed and we come to Moses, he only lived to be 120.

    I believe that in the Garden of Eden God's creation of man had fallen due to the fall of man. In other words, had sin not infiltrated the generations of man we would still be having a conversation, today, with men of long ago. Imagine having children at 100, or serving our Lord for 900 years. I can't even fathom. Those first men must also have shared Much more in common with God than we do. Today we are "built cheap" because of sin.

    Another thought if I may. During the fall in Eden God also cursed the ground. Imagine what our world would be today.

    I hope that this helps to understand the question of time being different in the OT days vs modern day.

    God Bless you brother
  • Roy - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Thank you. I quite like the idea that at the beginning GOD liked what he had made and gave it perhaps intended to give it immortality. Then IP pops Satan and Sin and the more men progressively and collectively sinned GOD liked them less and less and in direct proportion reduces the life span of man. Perhaps slowly down to the Crucifixion and the gift of everlasting life with the forgiveness of sins. After that GOD allows men to develop and medical research and practice began to have effect.. I am not atall sure that I want to live in this world for a 900 years anyway.

    Regards. Roy
  • GiGi - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Hello Roy,

    Thank you for your testimony. I have been a believer all of my life and I am now 65. Last night I was thinking about my testimony being a boring one in comparison to others who lived many years in unbelief. I don't have knowledge nor experience of being far from God in rebellion and unbelief and then coming to faith. But as I thought more about this, I just have to admit that I have had a blessed life to be called to Jesus at so young of an age. I grew up in a believing home and was taught who Jesus was and what He did for my salvation as early as I can remember. I embraced this truth eagerly and believed in Jesus deeply as a child and this faith remained in me throughout my life. I am thankful for how God called me to Him. He spared me a lot of grief.

    In response to your post, I just want to say that I do not think that God liked mankind less and less the more they sinned before the flood nor after. Our sin grieved Him and He hated our sins, but the Bible clearly tells us across the pages of Scripture, that God loves mankind and it never changes. Yet some will receive His salvation through His grace and mercy and believe in Jesus, and many more will reject Him. But He still loves each person He creates the same. The difference to us is that those who do not believe in Him will be recipients of His holy wrath in the judgment, spending eternity without Him, and those who believe will receive His favor in redemption and spend eternity with Him.

    But God's love for mankind does not lesson because we sin. Our fellowship with Him is impaired when we sin, but that is our doing, a lack of love for Him on our part, not a reduction of love to us from Him on His part.

    Hope this helps.
  • Roy - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    GiGi Thank you for your thoughts as all such always help with further understanding.

    Best regards

    Roy
  • Ty - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Hello Roy

    My apology as the scripture I meant to use was

    Galatians 5:13 rather than 3:13.

    May make more sense!

    Ty
  • Free - In Reply on Matthew 1 - 2 years ago
    Dear "Roy" In God it would be a nother world! Absolutely not like we see, hear all the noice! Belive that for your own sake.

    Be blessed from Acts 19:21-41 Love u in Christ



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