Isaiah 45:7 God's ways are kind of like our ways, in some ways. At the 6th trumpet God uses a foreign army to bring judgment to "His" wayward people (Babylon) for their disobedience. God is so proud of His 6th trumpet army, His beast army, and the leader who executes His will ( Joel 2:11). Then we come to find out that God is angry at the beast for doing what God had asked of him; destroy Babylon. If God didn't want Isaiah 24 or Obadiah results, why did He bless Russian scientists with the ability to destroy nations? God behaves akin to a mafia boss, just follow the narrative.
Cecil. The Scriptures have been given: Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39; Zechariah chapter 12; Joel chapter 3. If what you understand in just these few portions don't speak of God protecting Israel & that Israel will one day learn & come to God in the midst of their sufferings, then I'm unsure what might convince you. I'm uninterested in which nations come against Israel in that day, unless they're specifically mentioned in the Word. To do otherwise, is mere speculation; a wild shot might indeed hit the target & then again, it might also miss it completely. I don't make guesses when reading the Word - some enjoy it & even teach it - I would walk out in that type of ministry for lack of clear Truth.
I'm speaking of a specific point in time because I know it like a road map. Your context is off, timing of events is causing you to conflate the narrative.
I've studies for decades. I understand scripture all too well, details.
When you know Biblical history like a text book, but can't see duplicity, or ritual, your not seeing the complete picture. You don't move in the spirit of prophesy.
I still have no idea what you proclaim as a Christian, how you could have no idea of the prophets, and have such a strong opinion. You didn't say a word about your beliefs that struck me. Tell me your Christian view of the world to come from today forward.
You should know the end-time trumpets 5-6-7 and the order of events. Anything else cones from your imagination.
Yes, when time is up God reestablishes Israel with the saints. Isaiah 14:2 Can you tell me what trumpet this happens at?
Thank you Cecil. I'm sure your studies in the prophecies have been increasingly fruitful as it has progressed over time. And as I stated earlier, my knowledge of the prophecies is simply based on what is given in the Word & whether their fulfilment is imminent, still in the future, or even have a dual occurrence. Any more than that I find gets me into areas of increasing uncertainty leading into error. If you are clear in your understanding & interpretation, that is to your benefit & to those who can join you in it. I cannot be swerved, not because of your interpretation, but because this part of the prophecy is still future & nothing is so clear within them to give me certainties (i.e. which countries involved, order of falling out of events, even the correct division of the Revelation). Maybe, I just haven't given more time to it, due to the lack of specifics.
So, I really can't respond to your questions, except to say, that "my strong opinion" is based on the Scriptures as given (no interpretation from me) - if there is another meaning or application to them, then that will have to be spiritually discerned. But you mentioned that "God re-establishes Israel with the saints". To this I agree that together we will one day all be one, under one God & one Saviour, & I see nothing in the Trumpet Judgements to correlate with this coming together.
Thank you for your time & input Cecil - maybe your comments will engender other more profitable responses than mine. Blessings.
On this site we do not get a chance to really know one another deeply, as we cannot meet in person and have a lengthy conversation back and forth about our life in Christ as friends do. So this response to Chris is very off base, unkind, and arrogant. Nobody likes to interact with one who speaks like a no-it-all. So, humility on this forum is important. We can have firm convictions concerning Scriptural interpretation and doctrine. And we can present our viewpoint in a sure way without attacking the character or Christian walk of another, as you have done with Chris.
I know that Chris can speak for himself in response to you, but as a reader and having read Chris' contribution to this forum over the past 4 months, I find him to be one who is mature in the Lord and knowledgeable concerning Scripture in a wide sense. He provides helpful information to many here. Also, as a reader, I think it is appropriate to call out someone who is coming at another on this site in a manner that is disrespectful. I am speaking of you in your response to Chris.
I am glad you have come to this forum. Like all of us, I hope you will come each time with an attitude to share your view, learn from others, and grow in your Christian life. I think it is fine to be straight forward with others as long as one is not questioning someone's character or Christian faith. We can post disagreements with someone's viewpoint or Scriptural interpretations. We can even state that we think someone's has expressed error or false teaching on here. But I don't think it proper for one to tell another what they should be focusing on in Scripture and pursuing understanding of as you did. God is working in all of us to learn and grow from His guidance in Scripture. He does not have everyone learning from the same portion of Scripture at the same time. Nor should this be the case. When people are delving into the Word in various books and chapters, we all benefit, as God leads us to share here.
Thank you GiGi for your kind words & support. Actually, I didn't look at Cecil's response as derogatory or demeaning in any way. I think he was simply questioning my prophetical interpretation abilities rather than of my faith in Christ. I'm quite thick-skinned in this regard (i.e. towards any perceived personal attacks; when one has had some serious encounters in the work of the Gospel, any supposed abuse falls off as 'water from a duck's back'). So, I don't believe Cecil meant any harm, & as you know, we are quite constrained in correctly expressing our thoughts by words on paper (or, screen), we sometimes apply a sentiment to others that may be quite incorrect. So, I appreciate your sensitivity to our various responses & giving a much needed woman's perspective that is often so important to bring us balance - I think there'll be an end to this conversation soon, as I have no more to offer him. Again, thank you for your kindness.
I am glad you posted on this. I, myself, am pretty thick-skinned as well. But, in this instance, felt moved to speak to Cecil's post. It is good to be reminded that this forum, at its best, is one where people speak their minds without demeaning another person.
You are missing the point of the narrative, the sixth trumpet, the day of the lord, judgment day when both houses of Israel experience Jacobs time of trouble. Spend some time with Isaiah 47, see how America is described, told to sit in the dirt, in darkness.
You said Israel will be "preserved". Israel will be invaded and taken into a third captivity at the day of the lord ( Luke 21:20-24). America will be nowhere to be found to save Israel, they received their part in the abomination of desolation in the same hour, spoken of by Daniel. Antichrist rules all strong holds for 42 months, at which time Christ returns to take the kingdom. It is at this point and only at this point that Israel is reestablished, Isaiah 14:2, with the resurrected saints, and only the saints.
Hi Cecil. I suppose it would be difficult, at least for me, to continue, given your understanding of these Scriptures, since our views are different on those you've cited.
Isaiah chapter 47 is about Babylon & the Chaldeans (Babylon's inhabitants). I don't see America or any other country in that chapter, nor anywhere else in the Bible. I don't say that the nations will not play a major part in the end times, but Isaiah doesn't show it. Indeed, the wicked acts in that chapter might be common to all nations, but to state any specific country other than what is given, would be unwise for me to do.
Luke 21:20-24 when Jerusalem will compassed with armies, is sometimes connected with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, though of course there will be other calamities during Anti-Christ's rule. And we know that Jerusalem has been invaded several times with many suffering & fleeing. But verse 24 I believe is the key: "Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." 1948 might have been a special year for Israel but not the end of the matters in the Bible. We are presently in those times of the Gentiles, whether for the gathering in of those still to be saved or even of Gentile powers against Israel. But when that time ends, Christ comes with His angelic forces to overthrow all who have opposed Israel. Yes, Israel will suffer, as they have throughout their history, but God in mercy, will still hold His Promise true & those who survive these destructions & those yet to be saved in Israel, will indeed know the salvation of God & His Christ.
Prophesy happens once or twice, maybe even 3 times, Israel will be invaded (again) by Gog, and taken ( Ezekiel 38:1-17). And when Israel is taken, where is her protection against captivity? One must be able to decipher events between the 5th-6th & 7th trumpets to know the end-times. Questions like "who is the beast and who is Babylon" ( Revelation 18)? Who is the king of the north ( Daniel 11:40), and who is the king of the south? Who are Jacob and who are Esau representing (nations) in the book of Obadiah; when did the two boys ever fight? No, it's a future battle. The thing is, all 3 depictions are describing the same thing, the same battle, the sixth trumpet day of the Lord. The same thing happens with the sealed saints, and people think "new characters" have been added to the narrative.
For me, Mystery Babylon is America, and Babylon proper are the allies within the crooked system, while the beast is Russia. After the USSR fell, the little horn popped up in 1991 as the new Russian Federation ( Daniel 7:8). There is much more to it, but that's for your curiosity to search out.
Thank you Cecil. Just to clarify what I think you're saying, is that "when Israel is taken", you're inferring that Israel is to be defeated according to Ezekiel chapter 38. Without even considering the Trumpet judgements, I don't share that view that Israel will be defeated. In fact, I see that Gog & those who ally with him are the ones brought to nought & suffer badly; because this chapter speaks against him & not against Israel. But then again, I might have misunderstood you.
As far as associating our various nations today with Babylon, the beast, kings of the North/South, Jacob & Esau, I'll leave it up to you & those who are more studied & convinced of such associations. I enjoy prophecy & the mystery that comes with it, but am also careful how I decipher prophetical narratives for today & therefore might be advising others incorrectly. Not saying that your studies & conclusions are incorrect since I have no alternatives with good reasons for them to give you, it's just that I approach prophecy, indeed the whole Word, with caution & in fear.
Don't forget that no matter what, anti-christ receives 42 months of absolute power. Christ had 42 months, anti-christ gets 42 months.
Ezekiel 38:1-17 is within the 6th trumpet time frame, and vs 18-23 speak of the 7th trumpet. Ezekiel 39 is a continuation. Revelation is choppy, many sections read backwards in time. ( Revelation 6:14) has to happen before ( Revelation 6:12) because vs 12 describes the "iconic" day of the Lord smoke.
Keep your mind on Christ, and good things will happen. Till tomorrow.
I study in with wonderment, no fear, but I know what you mean.
The judgment is against Babylon, and the rest of the world, but specifically 2 lands. The world past the 6th trumpet will be a curse.
When America receives the abomination of desolation ( Isaiah 13, Isaiah 47, Joel 2:1-11, Revelation 18), Israel is invaded at the earthquake ( Revelation 6:12) and taken.
Ezekiel prophetically gives the blueprint that 2 lands, both houses of Israel (Israel & Judah) are to be attacked by Gog, Esau, king of the north, Russia, and soundly taken.
( Ezekiel 21:19-20)
19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city.
20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
Anti-christ rules everything. He rebuilds the temple in Jerusalem where he claims to be God. Jesus said, "Israel will be trodden underfoot 42 months by the Gentiles."
( Luke 21:24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
( Ezekiel 21:12) Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
"smite upon thy thigh" is a reference to Jacob receiving a wound in the 'hollow of his thigh' after wrestling the angel for the birthright. It coincides with the end-times because the great tribulation (6th trumpet) is referred to as Jacob's time of trouble. America is co-lead for the house of Israel. The Ashkenazim (Japheth) in Israel represent Judah ( Gen 10:2-3).
Prepare for the 6th trumpet, judgment day. God's people are in trouble.
As I continue to look at the Scriptures you share Cecil, I find that I don't see what you see. I'll cite two of your examples.
In the case of Isaiah chapter 13, Babylon is denounced, with God sending out His "sanctified ones" (v3). These were the Medes (Persians) who overthrew Babylon in 539 BC (refer Daniel chapter 5, especially vv 22-31, when Belshazzar, king of the Chaldeans (Babylon) was slain & his kingdom given to the Persians). But indeed, in Isaiah chapter 13 we see both the destruction of actual Babylon as well as prophecy of the Day of the Lord & that Babylonian spirit in the nations that come against Israel in the latter days (vv6-11). To see particular countries by name here, is upto one's imagination & without scriptural support. Isaiah chapter 47 being the song of triumph over Babylon with reference once again to the spirit of Babylon within the nations.
Ezekiel 21:19-23: Ezekiel draws on the ground a fork in the road; a fork that the King of Babylon has to decide on - one leads to Rabbath of the Ammonites & the other to Jerusalem. Not knowing which fork to take, the king when he comes to it, uses divination to ascertain the correct road. With two arrows marked accordingly & use of images & the liver of a sacrificed animal, he is prompted to take the right fork - towards Jerusalem. But to those of Israel who gave allegiance to Babylon, the divination seemed false as an attack on Jerusalem seemed impossible (v23).
I just share the above two examples of Scriptures to show how divergent our understanding is on this prophecy & probably on most of them. If prophecy is for a particular people & for a particular time, then we can't change it to mean whatever we think is plausible or fits our jigsaw. Certain things are similar or will be replicated for the future, but to stick to the prophecy as intended is the only way to understand & accept it; for me anyway.
Oh, the depths of the riches both the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Romans 11:33
God is ineffable: too great for words, inexpressible, beyond the limitations of our words or thoughts.
He is transcendent: existing apart from and not subject to the limitations of physical experience.
He is incomprehensible: beyond our ability to fully understand.
He is unfathomable: impossible for us to fully explore or measure the extent of His Being.
He is holy: set apart from any other being. Not like any other creature He created.
He is perfect: complete and uncorrupted in all attributes. without lack of anything.
He is infinite: His perfection never ends, there is never a top capacity to his perfection.
He is sovereign: complete authority over all creation. he is the Supreme Ruler of the universe.
How marvelous He is! makes us kind of speechless before Him.
Yet on the other hand,
God is imminent: He is involved in creation and history. He is Immanuel: God with us.
He is Omnipresent: every present at once.
He is Knowable: God has revealed Himself in history, creation, His Word and in us by His Spirit. But most importantly, by His Son, Jesus Christ. God has revealed to us what He wants us to know of Him so that we can be saved and know the difference between good and evil. This allows us to discern what is of God and what is of the devil or man.
In Heaven we will learn more about God and the spiritual realm, but we will never know all of God. There will still be much about Him that will remain a mystery to us forever. But even so, we will still be completely satisfied by Him. We have limits, He does not, so He will operate in us within our limits as creatures.
I am so glad God is so wonderful and infinitely greater than us. This way He can be ALL to us. We will lack for nothing we need because his riches exceed our ability to possess fully. How wonderful is that!
God has always used foreign nations to accomplish His will. The captain of the guard as well as Nebuchadnezzar himself both declared that because of disobedience all these things were happening to Israel. We shouldn't forget that God used the exile of Daniel and his three associates to bring the leader of Babylon to saving faith. These promises were prophetically directed to Moses as curses for disobedience along with every type of plague (famine and pestilence); the contrast was being blessed with children; livestock; and health as well as victory over all enemies. Satan himself clearly is used to do the will of God as is every calamity (as Job states God creates all good and evil). Satan needed permission from God to do what he wanted and God once again used it to test Job and use him as an example as all scripture is used for instruction in that way. Again; the final end is sealed for Satan and all the angels that fell with him. This is used as a test to purge God's people and attain rewards for martyrdom and not denying Christ's name. Satan has legal authority only on the unregenerate; as well as believes who have allowed sin to compromise their spiritual armor. Looking at the life of Christ; Judas was prophesied in Psalms to be the friend who betrayed Christ; and all his descendants were to be cursed of this "son of perdition". God will use Antichrist to draw all those who did not LOVE the truth and all those NOT written in the Book of Life to follow and worship him; and believe the Lie (Thessalonians). This will fully separate the tares from the wheat; who likewise are all drawn as all those the Father has predestined to be saved are "given" to the Son. Man can be redeemed while angels can't. God can't tempt anyone; but He can use Satan's influence to accomplish His purposes; as well as chastising all those He loves; even teaching them lessons through their sins. Great are the mysteries of God who works all things according to His purposes
I knew a guy named Cecil at Myrtle Beach Air Force Base. He adopted a 6month old baby girl that had been horrificly abused. I read your post several times. I closed the ap. Had to pray a little & think on your post. I haven't heard from our friend Cecil since I was a teenager. The MBAFB shut down shortly after those days & everyone moved away.
Cecil, GOD is Just. Have you heard of Moses? In Genesis, Abraham was promised several amazing things, a son from his 'wife', in their old age, etc. Gen. 12:2,3,7, but also that those heirs would be servant in strange land & afflicted 400 yrs. Genesis 15:12-13, if you read in depth you can find GOD's justice. Genesis 12:10-17, Genesis 16:1-16, Genesis 21:9-19 = it was in Egypt, Abraham's children of Sarah's son Isaac's offspring were afflicted.
Genesis 18, shows great mercy of GOD that if 10 righteous were in that land (Sodom & Gomorrah) it would've been spared. That's his Nephew Lot's friends & family. ?, Right here is proof the GOD interecedes on People's behalf when they obey HIM.
GOD's ways are not our ways, Isaiah 55:8,9,
We cannot blame GOD for wickedness of man = Genesis 6:5-6,
Yet GOD shows us mercy & unimaginable love, John 3:16-17, salvation through sacrifice, Psalms 18:25-27,
GOD is merciful, true & Just. If you read the books that go alongside Isaiah you'll get a clearer picture: 2Chronicles 36, Jeremiah 29, Jeremiah 51, Exodus 22:22, Isaiah 1:17, Isaiah 1:23, Jeremiah 7:6, Jeremiah 22:3, Ezekiel 22:7, Malachi 3:5, Zechariah 7:10, you can start with those verses because that's most of what GOD asked of Israel & Judah. Then please read the Books & chapters.
Then Babylon: 2Kings 20:12-18,19, Daniel 1, 2Kings 25:8-9, I stopped there because that's enough about the evil.
Hopefully these are helpful if you are trying to search for truth & understanding. You can also ask for wisdom James 1:5-6,21,
THE END TIMES_HAPPENING NOW - In Reply - 2 years ago
You need to read those passages in the Commentaries. On this website or Google.
Type in your scripture and what you want to read: commentary or history or meaning or teaching.
If we don't do the work; the reading. We strike out at God as not being fair. We forget that we've had 3,000 years to learn what happens at THE END OF DAYS. We were warned and informed.
Jesus will have His Army; there will have been 144,000 Jewish Evangelists SENT BY GOD to reach out to the Unconverted/unbelievers.
The Beast will have his Army. All those who serve Antichrist. There's going to be a lot of Military action in these last days. The Palestinians are looking for their MAHDI; Who will lead them against Israel and any Israeli sympathizers.
If you want to have this taught to you? Look up NELSON WALTERS videos on YouTube. Take notes.
For BELIEVERS IN JESUS, we need to be as the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Be ready to go with Jesus when He comes for His born again CHURCH. Sometimes called the Rapture. Bible calls it: "Caught Up in the Clouds".
After that, the DOOR CLOSES. People who chose to do NOTHING, will endure years of Tribulation. They can still be BORN AGAIN; but they have to be on earth, hide in rocks and caves to survive.
NOTE: Antichrist will kill 1/3 of Mankind left on earth. If you accept the mark of the Beast, to access your money in the bank__you will die. If you take the Mark, you die. If you don't take the Mark, you die of starvation from hiding in the forests (which will be patrolled by drones looking for GPS on your cell phone).
This is ALL SCRIPTURE. You have to CHOOSE NOW. Today is the day of Salvation.
Sticking our heads in the sand like Book of Job animals: (OSTRICH) is a gory death sentence.
Get informed. Don't mock the Christians trying to help you. We're trying to help you and others.
We think your life is precious to God. "God so loved THE WORLD, that He gave his only son, to take your sins and give you JESUS." JOHN 3:16
Cecil, If God was anything like a mafia boss He would've taken me out a long time ago. I would imagine you could say the same. I don't know any mafia boss that would have the kind of mercy that God has shown me, and so many others, for so many years.
Hello Cecil. Just confirming that "the 6th trumpet army, His beast army", is your reference to Revelation 9:13-21? If so, I understand that this army of angels, God's army, doesn't refer to the Anti-Christ's army. How do you see God's Anger "at the beast for doing what God had asked of him; destroy Babylon"? The release of the four angels was for the slaying of one third of mankind. Maybe you could explain further how you have arrived at your conclusions as some assumptions you've made appear confusing in light of the Scriptures.
Do you understand the last three trumpets are for this generation, and that each nation fulfills the vision according to the prophets? Ezekiel 38:4 sees (Russia), who was always held back for various reasons, is being brought forth as the beast army to defeat His people, Babylon (US/allies). God's people become a run down Sodom and Gomorrah, military might which the beast was hired to destroy. Afterwards, God destroys the beast (of which He bragged about). Rev 18:4 or Sarmat. God performs the end-time order His way, it's His narrative. Man is a tool in His hand for that very purpose, regardless of how ill perceived that concept may be. It is similar to 'love of country', and the refusal to see the tidings for blindness of national pride. These people defend their leaders' corruption, and root for a country that God has pegged for destruction. They follow their own hearts, not knowing that they are the new Nazi's. They are too deceived, or a slave to what someone else believes.
Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39 is about the protection & restoration of Israel. And this God does is such manner (i.e. bringing down the countries against Israel), so that both Israel & her enemies will know that it is the Lord Who has done this ( Ezekiel 38:16; Ezekiel 39:28). We are not told when all this will happen - no doubt when Anti-Christ is in power & both he & those with him (the enemy nations) come against Israel. But God will have the final say in their destruction in the Valley of Megiddo & the preservation of Israel. God can indeed use anything or anyone He chooses to bring about His purposes. And we know that all His Works are done in righteousness & true justice. No nation in that day can argue to the contrary.
God uses anti-christ to remove His backsliding people (modern day Israel), and anti-christ has power over all strongholds for 42 months. Ezekiel 38:1-17 represents anti-christ attacking both houses of Israel, beginning his half of the week. Ezekiel 38:18-23 & Ezekiel 39 represent God's intervention against anti-christ's rule. If satan didn't have his 42 months, prophesy wouldn't be fulfilled
CE. You stated, "God uses anti-christ to remove His backsliding people (modern day Israel)" & you referred to Ezekiel 38:1-17. Then Ezekiel 38:18-23 shows what God does to 'magnify & sanctify Himself before many nations' (v23), & that is, to overwhelm Gog (the nations from the North & elsewhere who come against God's people). Israel are indeed a "backsliding people", but God is about to show the world that Israel is still to be preserved & that one day (maybe after they see God's dealing with them) they will finally return to Him & ultimately to the Messiah ( Ezekiel 39:21-29; Zechariah 12:9-11).
God is not preserving Israel, quite the opposite. He is unleashing anti-christ on them come the 6th trumpet. The prophets weren't per se historians, as they are seers for generations. Prophesy repeats itself, and you're not allowing that to happen, the parallels, you're not matching up scripture, observing the tidings.
Explain to me what you believe, and according to the prophets? You have told me we differ, what do you think?
Apologies, my response incorrectly went to your first post. Re-posting it here.
Cecil. The Scriptures have been given: Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39; Zechariah chapter 12; Joel chapter 3. If what you understand in just these few portions don't speak of God protecting Israel & that Israel will one day learn & come to God in the midst of their sufferings, then I'm unsure what might convince you. I'm uninterested in which nations come against Israel in that day, unless they're specifically mentioned in the Word. To do otherwise, is mere speculation; a wild shot might indeed hit the target & then again, it might also miss it completely. I don't make guesses when reading the Word - some enjoy it & even teach it - I would walk out in that type of ministry for lack of clear Truth."
I'm speaking of a specific point in time because I know it like a road map. Your context is off, timing of events is causing you to conflate the narrative.
I've studies for decades. I understand scripture all too well, details.
When you know Biblical history like a text book, but can't see duplicity, or ritual, your not seeing the complete picture. You don't move in the spirit of prophesy.
I still have no idea what you proclaim as a Christian, how you could have no idea of the prophets, and have such a strong opinion. You didn't say a word about your beliefs that struck me. Tell me your Christian view of the world to come from today forward.
You should know the end-time trumpets 5-6-7 and the order of events. Anything else cones from your imagination.
Yes, when time is up God reestablishes Israel with the saints. Isaiah 14:2 Can you tell me what trumpet this happens at?
So, I really can't respond to your questions, except to say, that "my strong opinion" is based on the Scriptures as given (no interpretation from me) - if there is another meaning or application to them, then that will have to be spiritually discerned. But you mentioned that "God re-establishes Israel with the saints". To this I agree that together we will one day all be one, under one God & one Saviour, & I see nothing in the Trumpet Judgements to correlate with this coming together.
Thank you for your time & input Cecil - maybe your comments will engender other more profitable responses than mine. Blessings.
On this site we do not get a chance to really know one another deeply, as we cannot meet in person and have a lengthy conversation back and forth about our life in Christ as friends do. So this response to Chris is very off base, unkind, and arrogant. Nobody likes to interact with one who speaks like a no-it-all. So, humility on this forum is important. We can have firm convictions concerning Scriptural interpretation and doctrine. And we can present our viewpoint in a sure way without attacking the character or Christian walk of another, as you have done with Chris.
I know that Chris can speak for himself in response to you, but as a reader and having read Chris' contribution to this forum over the past 4 months, I find him to be one who is mature in the Lord and knowledgeable concerning Scripture in a wide sense. He provides helpful information to many here. Also, as a reader, I think it is appropriate to call out someone who is coming at another on this site in a manner that is disrespectful. I am speaking of you in your response to Chris.
I am glad you have come to this forum. Like all of us, I hope you will come each time with an attitude to share your view, learn from others, and grow in your Christian life. I think it is fine to be straight forward with others as long as one is not questioning someone's character or Christian faith. We can post disagreements with someone's viewpoint or Scriptural interpretations. We can even state that we think someone's has expressed error or false teaching on here. But I don't think it proper for one to tell another what they should be focusing on in Scripture and pursuing understanding of as you did. God is working in all of us to learn and grow from His guidance in Scripture. He does not have everyone learning from the same portion of Scripture at the same time. Nor should this be the case. When people are delving into the Word in various books and chapters, we all benefit, as God leads us to share here.
I am glad you posted on this. I, myself, am pretty thick-skinned as well. But, in this instance, felt moved to speak to Cecil's post. It is good to be reminded that this forum, at its best, is one where people speak their minds without demeaning another person.
So, I take my own advice to heart in this, too.
You are missing the point of the narrative, the sixth trumpet, the day of the lord, judgment day when both houses of Israel experience Jacobs time of trouble. Spend some time with Isaiah 47, see how America is described, told to sit in the dirt, in darkness.
You said Israel will be "preserved". Israel will be invaded and taken into a third captivity at the day of the lord ( Luke 21:20-24). America will be nowhere to be found to save Israel, they received their part in the abomination of desolation in the same hour, spoken of by Daniel. Antichrist rules all strong holds for 42 months, at which time Christ returns to take the kingdom. It is at this point and only at this point that Israel is reestablished, Isaiah 14:2, with the resurrected saints, and only the saints.
Isaiah chapter 47 is about Babylon & the Chaldeans (Babylon's inhabitants). I don't see America or any other country in that chapter, nor anywhere else in the Bible. I don't say that the nations will not play a major part in the end times, but Isaiah doesn't show it. Indeed, the wicked acts in that chapter might be common to all nations, but to state any specific country other than what is given, would be unwise for me to do.
Luke 21:20-24 when Jerusalem will compassed with armies, is sometimes connected with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, though of course there will be other calamities during Anti-Christ's rule. And we know that Jerusalem has been invaded several times with many suffering & fleeing. But verse 24 I believe is the key: "Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." 1948 might have been a special year for Israel but not the end of the matters in the Bible. We are presently in those times of the Gentiles, whether for the gathering in of those still to be saved or even of Gentile powers against Israel. But when that time ends, Christ comes with His angelic forces to overthrow all who have opposed Israel. Yes, Israel will suffer, as they have throughout their history, but God in mercy, will still hold His Promise true & those who survive these destructions & those yet to be saved in Israel, will indeed know the salvation of God & His Christ.
Prophesy happens once or twice, maybe even 3 times, Israel will be invaded (again) by Gog, and taken ( Ezekiel 38:1-17). And when Israel is taken, where is her protection against captivity? One must be able to decipher events between the 5th-6th & 7th trumpets to know the end-times. Questions like "who is the beast and who is Babylon" ( Revelation 18)? Who is the king of the north ( Daniel 11:40), and who is the king of the south? Who are Jacob and who are Esau representing (nations) in the book of Obadiah; when did the two boys ever fight? No, it's a future battle. The thing is, all 3 depictions are describing the same thing, the same battle, the sixth trumpet day of the Lord. The same thing happens with the sealed saints, and people think "new characters" have been added to the narrative.
For me, Mystery Babylon is America, and Babylon proper are the allies within the crooked system, while the beast is Russia. After the USSR fell, the little horn popped up in 1991 as the new Russian Federation ( Daniel 7:8). There is much more to it, but that's for your curiosity to search out.
As far as associating our various nations today with Babylon, the beast, kings of the North/South, Jacob & Esau, I'll leave it up to you & those who are more studied & convinced of such associations. I enjoy prophecy & the mystery that comes with it, but am also careful how I decipher prophetical narratives for today & therefore might be advising others incorrectly. Not saying that your studies & conclusions are incorrect since I have no alternatives with good reasons for them to give you, it's just that I approach prophecy, indeed the whole Word, with caution & in fear.
Don't forget that no matter what, anti-christ receives 42 months of absolute power. Christ had 42 months, anti-christ gets 42 months.
Ezekiel 38:1-17 is within the 6th trumpet time frame, and vs 18-23 speak of the 7th trumpet. Ezekiel 39 is a continuation. Revelation is choppy, many sections read backwards in time. ( Revelation 6:14) has to happen before ( Revelation 6:12) because vs 12 describes the "iconic" day of the Lord smoke.
Keep your mind on Christ, and good things will happen. Till tomorrow.
I study in with wonderment, no fear, but I know what you mean.
The judgment is against Babylon, and the rest of the world, but specifically 2 lands. The world past the 6th trumpet will be a curse.
When America receives the abomination of desolation ( Isaiah 13, Isaiah 47, Joel 2:1-11, Revelation 18), Israel is invaded at the earthquake ( Revelation 6:12) and taken.
Ezekiel prophetically gives the blueprint that 2 lands, both houses of Israel (Israel & Judah) are to be attacked by Gog, Esau, king of the north, Russia, and soundly taken.
( Ezekiel 21:19-20)
19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city.
20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
Anti-christ rules everything. He rebuilds the temple in Jerusalem where he claims to be God. Jesus said, "Israel will be trodden underfoot 42 months by the Gentiles."
( Luke 21:24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
( Ezekiel 21:12) Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
"smite upon thy thigh" is a reference to Jacob receiving a wound in the 'hollow of his thigh' after wrestling the angel for the birthright. It coincides with the end-times because the great tribulation (6th trumpet) is referred to as Jacob's time of trouble. America is co-lead for the house of Israel. The Ashkenazim (Japheth) in Israel represent Judah ( Gen 10:2-3).
Prepare for the 6th trumpet, judgment day. God's people are in trouble.
In the case of Isaiah chapter 13, Babylon is denounced, with God sending out His "sanctified ones" (v3). These were the Medes (Persians) who overthrew Babylon in 539 BC (refer Daniel chapter 5, especially vv 22-31, when Belshazzar, king of the Chaldeans (Babylon) was slain & his kingdom given to the Persians). But indeed, in Isaiah chapter 13 we see both the destruction of actual Babylon as well as prophecy of the Day of the Lord & that Babylonian spirit in the nations that come against Israel in the latter days (vv6-11). To see particular countries by name here, is upto one's imagination & without scriptural support. Isaiah chapter 47 being the song of triumph over Babylon with reference once again to the spirit of Babylon within the nations.
Ezekiel 21:19-23: Ezekiel draws on the ground a fork in the road; a fork that the King of Babylon has to decide on - one leads to Rabbath of the Ammonites & the other to Jerusalem. Not knowing which fork to take, the king when he comes to it, uses divination to ascertain the correct road. With two arrows marked accordingly & use of images & the liver of a sacrificed animal, he is prompted to take the right fork - towards Jerusalem. But to those of Israel who gave allegiance to Babylon, the divination seemed false as an attack on Jerusalem seemed impossible (v23).
I just share the above two examples of Scriptures to show how divergent our understanding is on this prophecy & probably on most of them. If prophecy is for a particular people & for a particular time, then we can't change it to mean whatever we think is plausible or fits our jigsaw. Certain things are similar or will be replicated for the future, but to stick to the prophecy as intended is the only way to understand & accept it; for me anyway.
beast = Russia
Goodnight.
Well said
Oh, the depths of the riches both the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Romans 11:33
God is ineffable: too great for words, inexpressible, beyond the limitations of our words or thoughts.
He is transcendent: existing apart from and not subject to the limitations of physical experience.
He is incomprehensible: beyond our ability to fully understand.
He is unfathomable: impossible for us to fully explore or measure the extent of His Being.
He is holy: set apart from any other being. Not like any other creature He created.
He is perfect: complete and uncorrupted in all attributes. without lack of anything.
He is infinite: His perfection never ends, there is never a top capacity to his perfection.
He is sovereign: complete authority over all creation. he is the Supreme Ruler of the universe.
How marvelous He is! makes us kind of speechless before Him.
Yet on the other hand,
God is imminent: He is involved in creation and history. He is Immanuel: God with us.
He is Omnipresent: every present at once.
He is Knowable: God has revealed Himself in history, creation, His Word and in us by His Spirit. But most importantly, by His Son, Jesus Christ. God has revealed to us what He wants us to know of Him so that we can be saved and know the difference between good and evil. This allows us to discern what is of God and what is of the devil or man.
In Heaven we will learn more about God and the spiritual realm, but we will never know all of God. There will still be much about Him that will remain a mystery to us forever. But even so, we will still be completely satisfied by Him. We have limits, He does not, so He will operate in us within our limits as creatures.
I am so glad God is so wonderful and infinitely greater than us. This way He can be ALL to us. We will lack for nothing we need because his riches exceed our ability to possess fully. How wonderful is that!
I knew a guy named Cecil at Myrtle Beach Air Force Base. He adopted a 6month old baby girl that had been horrificly abused. I read your post several times. I closed the ap. Had to pray a little & think on your post. I haven't heard from our friend Cecil since I was a teenager. The MBAFB shut down shortly after those days & everyone moved away.
Cecil, GOD is Just. Have you heard of Moses? In Genesis, Abraham was promised several amazing things, a son from his 'wife', in their old age, etc. Gen. 12:2,3,7, but also that those heirs would be servant in strange land & afflicted 400 yrs. Genesis 15:12-13, if you read in depth you can find GOD's justice. Genesis 12:10-17, Genesis 16:1-16, Genesis 21:9-19 = it was in Egypt, Abraham's children of Sarah's son Isaac's offspring were afflicted.
Genesis 18, shows great mercy of GOD that if 10 righteous were in that land (Sodom & Gomorrah) it would've been spared. That's his Nephew Lot's friends & family. ?, Right here is proof the GOD interecedes on People's behalf when they obey HIM.
GOD's ways are not our ways, Isaiah 55:8,9,
We cannot blame GOD for wickedness of man = Genesis 6:5-6,
Yet GOD shows us mercy & unimaginable love, John 3:16-17, salvation through sacrifice, Psalms 18:25-27,
GOD is merciful, true & Just. If you read the books that go alongside Isaiah you'll get a clearer picture: 2Chronicles 36, Jeremiah 29, Jeremiah 51, Exodus 22:22, Isaiah 1:17, Isaiah 1:23, Jeremiah 7:6, Jeremiah 22:3, Ezekiel 22:7, Malachi 3:5, Zechariah 7:10, you can start with those verses because that's most of what GOD asked of Israel & Judah. Then please read the Books & chapters.
Then Babylon: 2Kings 20:12-18,19, Daniel 1, 2Kings 25:8-9, I stopped there because that's enough about the evil.
Hopefully these are helpful if you are trying to search for truth & understanding. You can also ask for wisdom James 1:5-6,21,
Job 38:1-41, James 4:12,
* Hebrews 7:25,
Type in your scripture and what you want to read: commentary or history or meaning or teaching.
If we don't do the work; the reading. We strike out at God as not being fair. We forget that we've had 3,000 years to learn what happens at THE END OF DAYS. We were warned and informed.
Jesus will have His Army; there will have been 144,000 Jewish Evangelists SENT BY GOD to reach out to the Unconverted/unbelievers.
The Beast will have his Army. All those who serve Antichrist. There's going to be a lot of Military action in these last days. The Palestinians are looking for their MAHDI; Who will lead them against Israel and any Israeli sympathizers.
If you want to have this taught to you? Look up NELSON WALTERS videos on YouTube. Take notes.
For BELIEVERS IN JESUS, we need to be as the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Be ready to go with Jesus when He comes for His born again CHURCH. Sometimes called the Rapture. Bible calls it: "Caught Up in the Clouds".
After that, the DOOR CLOSES. People who chose to do NOTHING, will endure years of Tribulation. They can still be BORN AGAIN; but they have to be on earth, hide in rocks and caves to survive.
NOTE: Antichrist will kill 1/3 of Mankind left on earth. If you accept the mark of the Beast, to access your money in the bank__you will die. If you take the Mark, you die. If you don't take the Mark, you die of starvation from hiding in the forests (which will be patrolled by drones looking for GPS on your cell phone).
This is ALL SCRIPTURE. You have to CHOOSE NOW. Today is the day of Salvation.
Sticking our heads in the sand like Book of Job animals: (OSTRICH) is a gory death sentence.
Get informed. Don't mock the Christians trying to help you. We're trying to help you and others.
We think your life is precious to God. "God so loved THE WORLD, that He gave his only son, to take your sins and give you JESUS." JOHN 3:16
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God bless you Sir :-)
God is not preserving Israel, quite the opposite. He is unleashing anti-christ on them come the 6th trumpet. The prophets weren't per se historians, as they are seers for generations. Prophesy repeats itself, and you're not allowing that to happen, the parallels, you're not matching up scripture, observing the tidings.
Explain to me what you believe, and according to the prophets? You have told me we differ, what do you think?
Cecil. The Scriptures have been given: Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39; Zechariah chapter 12; Joel chapter 3. If what you understand in just these few portions don't speak of God protecting Israel & that Israel will one day learn & come to God in the midst of their sufferings, then I'm unsure what might convince you. I'm uninterested in which nations come against Israel in that day, unless they're specifically mentioned in the Word. To do otherwise, is mere speculation; a wild shot might indeed hit the target & then again, it might also miss it completely. I don't make guesses when reading the Word - some enjoy it & even teach it - I would walk out in that type of ministry for lack of clear Truth."
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