Bible Discussion Thread

Good morning, Whats your interpretation of, Faith without work is dead ? Can you give a relatable example? Thank you.

the verse is saying if you don't have works you arent bringing forth fruit for God, its not saying you are not saved salvation is free gift to those who believe he is writing to people who are already saved not a book to get people saved

faith without works is dead he's not saying faith with out works is not faith at all, still possible to have faith and no works

in fact if you add works to salvation you are not saved at all and going to hell

Rom 4:4 KJV - Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 4:5 KJV - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Gal 5:4 KJV - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Hello Spencer,

I'd like to comment on what you wrote: "in fact if you add works to salvation you are not saved at all and going to hell"

You quoted scripture which is great, but that intepretation is untrue.

Let's be very specific. Someone could interpret what you said and instead of helping feed the poor for the day he decides to commit a few random murders. So, according to your statement that's good, because he avoided helping people which would have been bad because it's "works"? Do you realize how twisted and backwards that sounds? So, doing good is bad, and bad is good is your message? Beware, because that is precisely what the devil does. He deceives in order to disobey God and commit evil. Those who follow satan and commit evil are going to hell if they never turn to Jesus. Obeying and doing works is GOOD, as Jesus said.

Now, let's focus on the possible origin of this misunderstanding: Rom 4:1-5.

This is talking about Abraham and works, but as good as he was it wasn't enough. God has high standards. Just because we're not good enough means we should do the opposite of God wants- and commit evil, that would be like slapping Jesus in the face.

This means you can't EARN grace. It doesn't mean to stop doing good. If you keep reading notice Romans 4:8. Paraphrased it says blessed is the man who doesn't even sin in the first place.

The Bible says to be a light of the world, to love and help people, do good works and deeds, help orphans and widows, care for people. And do everything possible to AVOID SIN, even if you have to cut off your own hand! Mark 9:43

John 14:15 - Jesus says to OBEY! And if you don't you don't even love Jesus. Those who don't love Jesus probably aren't following Jesus and by definition are not Christians and should not expect to attain salvation as He says here:

Matthew 7:21

�Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.�

Does that scripture influence your belief?

Brother Adam,

Amen, and well said.

I'm not surprised with this kickback against scripture. There is a large percentage of people today, preaching and believing false doctrine out there. Much of this doctrine is coming out of the Mega Churches, and the "feel good preachers". Their teachings, have no merit when held up to the light of scripture. They ignore tons of scripture, including the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are more interested in growing their congregations and bringing in vast amounts of money. In order to keep and grow their congregations, they tell people what they want to hear, and manipulate the scriptures to agree with their lies. People don't want to hear that they need to change their life and stop sinning. They want to continue living a worldly lifestyle and believe they will still get salvation, when the scripture clearly states otherwise.

Yes, the gate is strait, and narrow is the way - few will find it! Many today ignore this verse.

Matthew 7:14

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Many also ignore:

Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Jesus tells us Point Blank - if we don't keep his commandments we WILL NOT have the right to the tree of life! So we will not enter into Heaven.

A wise person "fears God' and in conjunction with the Holy Spirit will do their very best to avoid sin, and live a Christ like life, while producing good works and good fruit.

God Bless.

I agree that there are problems with many mega-churches in what they preach and practice. It that is not the only place where false doctrine is being preached. It can happen anywhere, but I have noticed a lot of it comes from liberal leaning mainline denominations AND from conservative Pentecostal/charismatic churches. That is why I stopped attending such churches and instead prefer a "confessional" type of fellowship because of the emphasis on orthodox teaching and at least there isn't a " whatever someone thinks goes" attitude.

But there are sincere believers in every type of fellowship and these are to fellowship in the situations God has led them to.

Also. Many believers are not well taught as far as doctrine goes. Many churches brag about being "nondoctrinaire". I steer. clear of those fellowships because this attitude breeds error and Paul repeatedly speaks strongly against error in doctrine and exhorts us to watch our doctrine closely to see if we are truly in the faith. He state and knew that incorrect doctrine can shipwreck one's faith and lead one into apostasy(which is very serious and perilous to come to). This is why we contend for the faith passed down: to protect our fellow believers from departing from the faith through false beliefs. I take this seriously. So avoiding addressing error for the sake of unity is not supported by Scripture. But we should strive for harmony and wish to be at peace with others as much as possible. Therefore, we should not quibble over things people eat, or such matters of Liberty, but should take a stand on teachings about the nature and works of God as a Trinity and about the person and work of our Savior Jesus Christ

BRo Dan What is the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ.

Brother Rick,

Jesus Christs gospel can be found in the NT, and it's not a malleable message to fit someones vision, or to pick and choose what scripture to believe, and what to ignore. The Gospel is NOT to be massaged into something else to accommodate a worldly lifestyle.

Read it and believe!

Agreed Adam

Well said

We are to obey God with the help of the Spirit and that isn't done by obeying the sinful nature and the temptations from the devil.

Anyone who truly loves Jesus will lives godly life, not perfect, but when one sins, one should be grieved, repent , and confess this to God. He is faithful and just to forgive us and to help us turn from sin, as Jesus said , go and Sin no more. He knew we would still sin as long as we live in this life. But He expects us to not make a habit of any sin, thinking we are under grace , so sin does not matter. It does, as it is always harmful and causes death in some way within us. Continuing in sin can deaden our love for Jesus and also deaden our faith to the point of apostasy.

So, therefore, Jesus (and Paul) tell us to turn from temptation and do what is good and right in God's eye, not ours.

Hi Adam What I see in scripture that by walking by faith you are fulfilling the law. A person that is diligent to

to believe in what Jesus Christ accomplished will strive to make Gods will their will, at the same time Gods grace in

that we all sin not intentionally is the key,and that's is where we are cleansed from all unrighteousness by the

sacrifice of Christ. Not saying using Grace as a scapegoat to commit broken fellowship because that's basically

slapping what was accomplished by Jesus christ in the face. Our very nature is to sin so walking by the spirit is what

jesus Christ made available to do the works of the spirit. You can do works but have no spiritual love or heart in

what you do natural man does this all the time. Save the planet, I can fix myself by my chi or chai, if I eat all the right

food it will fix everything or let find another planet to live on. Just some examples of natural man's thinking even

we get caught up in this at times in one category or another. Thank God for the ability to walk with God in His Love

grace mercy and peace through Jesus Christ.

Hi Connie One more point Hebrews chapter 11 is the faithful Hall of fame these individual men and women of God

were consistent in their actions of believing Gods word in there walks believing what God was saying and showing not

wavering under any and all conditions of whom its says in verse 38 of that chapter that the world was not worthy of

them because they walked a walk not of this world by faith.

Hello Connie,

My interpretation of "Faith without works is dead" is what's written in scripture: James 2:1-4, James 2:5, please read all of James 2, for perspective & context. It says that faith without works is dead 3 times. Then gives examples what that is : * James 2:13-17,

James 2:19-20,

Notice: Isaiah 58, please read whole chapter. * Isaiah 58:6-7, James 1:23-27,

Isaiah 58:10-12, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, again read, 1Timothy 6, whole chapter. 1 Corinthians 13,

I hope these scriptures help give you understanding to what GOD means by "Faith without out works is dead."

Thank you very much.

T. Lewis The context of Corinthians Chapter 13 is that although we can do all these things tongues miracles works

if it is not done in charity which is agapeo Love or the spiritual love of God via the spirit or pure then all these things

profit nothing. When we do the word with a pure heart strictly service via the spirit or thinking no evil then we are

walking in that Love of God. So you can burn yourself out in works and service but if it doesn't have that Love in it

then we are going through natural good intentions nothing spiritual about it. There's a saying everything gives off something we should desire ro give off Gods Love.

Connie L Brundage Another added point on faith without works is dead. When we are born again confess Romans

10:9+10 and believe in our hearts what we confess then we receive Holy spirit which Galatians 3:22 describes as the

faith of Jesus Christ which is the bridge that spanned the gap between natural man and God. This his gift that being

said we do the work of action on Gods word in our lifestyles as Jesse shared a bit to produce the affects of the gift

on our personal lives. Fruit of he spirit Galatians 5:22 these are products that start appearing in our lives as a result

of changing out lifestyles to spiritual thinking Gods revealed word. some of those thoughts Philippians 4:6-9, Eph. 5:1

+2, Eph.4:21-32 their are many of these then you have lots of examples in the gospels. Good Stuff.

Hello Connie,

In James Chapter 2, it tells us that faith without works is dead. Something we have to keep in mind is that there are two types of faith, human faith and spiritual faith. We cannot produce spiritual faith. The word faith used in the verse "faith without works," is talking about spiritual faith. Spiritual faith can only be produces by God's Spirit. And also, it is not human works, but God's work in our lives.

So with this being said, if I were to tell you that I am a born again believer and that I have faith (Spiritual faith), if there is no evidence in my life that God's Spirit is working through me, my faith is a dead faith. In other words, I do not have God's Spirit living in me. It is impossible for a person who has been born of God's Spirit, to have the Spirit of God dwelling in them, and there be no fruit (Spiritual work). God's Spirit in a believer is never dormant. He is always working whether we realize it or not.

You see, it is God's Spirit in me that produces the spiritual work in my life. My personal definition of faith would be the presence and activity of God's Spirit in a person's life. If God's Spirit is not working in a person's life, that person's faith is dead.

I hope this makes sense? I can explain a little further is you need me to.