Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

@Jesse, there are ways to prove the God of the Bible is the one true God using logic. I am making this post so believers can be better equipped to see that, so they will not be(or appear to be) illogical in their beliefs.

@David and @SEEING GOD THROUGH CREATION, you've both made the same point of creation is proof of a creator. That is not logically flawed, however the way you both described it is superficial and wouldn't convince an unbeliever. Yes, the second law of thermodynamics shows random events lead to greater disorder and deterioration not order, and that's part of what proves God. But how does that prove that the God of the Bible is the one true God, not zeus or literally any other god?

@Adam, you made a similar point to them but never seeing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You've never seen God but you believe in him, using the lack of seeing something like evolution take place cannot discredit it on its own.

Once this thought exercise is complete, I will share the proof. I want to see if there is anyone here in this center of learning God's word online who knows the answer.

M What you just stated you can prove God through logic defies what Gods word declares so I'll go

with the Author. Because the Wisdom of the world is foolishness to God and the strength of the world

is weak to God and God constantly says I do not think like man thinks or reason like man.

Just because God does not think or reason like a man doesn't mean God doesn't think. We can think too, God gave us a brain to do so, and the essence of thinking is logic. God gave us logic to arrive at conclusions which then influence our decisions. Nothing I'm saying is nonbiblical. God wants us to think on His word.

M,

I am just curious as to how many more incorrect illogical responses you are waiting on before you give us the correct answer. You have my attention as I myself would like to know the proper answer. Before I came to know the Lord, or rather as Paul says, He came to know me, I had people try and prove to me through human logic that God was real. None of their logic worked. I am convinced He is real, but it has nothing to do with human logic. It took God's Spirit to convince me that He is real. As a believer, it is not up to me to prove that God is real. I can share Christ with others, but I can't prove anything to anyone, no matter how logical I make it sound. Adam brings up a great point about the theory of evolution. The evolutionists use logic, and very convincing logic at that. And there's a reason why we believers do not believe their logic. That reason is God's Spirit in us. If we didn't have God's Spirit dwelling in us, we would believe what they believe. Again, it takes God's Spirit to convince a person that He is real, not human logic.

I do look forward to you giving us the answer!

I too remain on tenterhooks awaiting these proofs. I've wracked my brains on this one & no answer, other than what others have shared, has come to me.

If I'm unable to prove God's existence from personal experience of His Work in me or by His creative Work in the worlds, then using the Word of God to give someone proof is unlikely to be profitable, as almost 100 per cent of people who reject the notion of God will also reject the authenticity of the Scriptures. We shall wait.

@Jesse, I want to wait at least a few hours if not more before giving the answer because when people are challenged they begin to realize their mistakes and think in new ways. If everybody says "it's by faith" then it goes to show while they do believe, it's very clear why people who do not believe are not convinced. Unbelievers think you're a victim of the placebo effect, and who can blame them?

It pains me to see people saying "you can't prove God exists," especially when it's a believer. You are right that even if shown something to be logically true, those with a hard heart can find a way to deny the validity of it. The answer is simpler than you may think.

M When I say its by faith it is not by my faith it is by the faith spiritually given to me by God the faith of jesus Christ

I just believe what I was given by Gods gift in me. That is what the Faith of jesus Christ is the Gift of Holy Spirit.

Which by the way is not by logic or the five senses which is dictated by logic or physical law.

Jesse This will be to say the least interesting.

Rick, I agree. The suspense is killing me. I can't wait to see what I've been missing!

Dear M. I agree with what some have posted here. It is hard to look at all of creation and what science has revealed to use in recent centuries to not consider that there is a creator who is much grander and powerful than us. But man's heart is hardened and unable to believe in God without faith. It is a spiritual work that allows us to believe that the God of the Bible is the only and one true God. But in Hebrews 4:12 states that "the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper that any two edged sword, even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart." and in Romans 10:17 says that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the word of God." This tells us that God's holy Word (Scriptures) is the vehicle God uses to bring people to faith in Him.

Therefore, we as believers should know that if we want someone to be convinced that God exists, we are to speak the truth of the Word of God to them and let God work its power in the person we are sharing with. We can trust this to be true. I hope this helps.

@GiGi, you are right that the answer lies in the Word of God. However, I'm testing people to see if they actually know specifically which verses are able to show undeniably that the Bible is the words of the one true God. Specificity matters a great deal when you're trying to convince someone of anything. Just saying "this man is good" isn't as convincing as saying "this man was tortured and killed for you so you can live", it gives a very different emotional impact.

M I have considered this quite a bit and what your stating is impossible by sheer logic because man is

absolutely flawed and imperfect so unless something is in Him or given Him perfect and not Flawed I.E. Gods

Holy Spirit when Born Again then what is being stated is impossible because imperfection will never understand

perfection no matter what!

It's absolutely possible and the logic is fairly simple. God gave us logic to think and arrival at conclusions which lead to decisions. Though we may be flawed, we have the capacity to think.

M If your dealing in the realm of the figures of speech used biblically that I can see because of how there

used and no other book in the world has as many.

M If your talking about the figures of speech used in Gods Word the is no other literature in the world

that uses them with the precision and perfection that God Does. Psalm 138:2 Thou hast magnified thy word

above thy name.

Perhaps reading Genesis chapter 1 to them. Let the word convince them by the power of God. Deuteronomy 6:4.

Isaiah 48:12-13, 46:9-11, 45:20-25, 44:6-9 all speak of the God of the Bible being the one and only God in all of time and creation. There is no other, and never will be another. So, for me. I would read these to a person (perhaps not all in one sitting) and let God do the rest.

There are probably many more verses you can find by searching key words. I will pray that God will prepare te hearts of those you will share with so that the true Word of God will be received by faith.

@GiGi, perhaps you are right and there is a supernatural aspect to the words of God that if people receive with an open heart then they will know the truth. The words come from the supernatural but I don't know if they have supernatural effects to all who read them. Personally that is not how I went about seeking the truth because I don't know if it's a placebo effect or not.

What I'm specifically looking for in an answer is(are) something(s) in the Bible that if someone reads with a cold heart and with only logic they can see undeniably that it couldn't have been written by anything other than a Being who lives beyond space and time. This information does exist in the Bible.

M All of them because the Word of God is perfect and nothing else can disprove that.

M Now my answer from Gods Word 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of

of the spirit of God neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. Either you get humble

and meek to receive Romans 10:9+10 or you don't.

@David, also in regards to your second post, humbleness and meekness alone isn't enough. There are many people around the world who can barely afford to eat. There are also people who are genuinely kind and care about others but simply don't have proof that the God of the Bible is the One. You must see it from their point of view, surely at one point you didn't believe, or know someone who didn't. Empathy is a virtue you must utilize to really understand someone.

It's not as simple as "believe or else..." because there are many religions and each believer of those religions thinks they follow the truth just as much as you believe you do. I know that religion is a man-made construct that is not the same thing as having a relationship with God but my point still stands. Emotions and feelings are not enough to prove God exists to other people viewing the situation logically because anyone who knows about the placebo effect knows how powerful it can be. God did not leave the world without proof He is the One.

M,

Using human logic, a person cannot prove the existence of God. I mean, how can I prove to anyone that God exists when human reasoning and logic tells a person that we need to see something in order to know it exists? You are a believer and so am I. Why do we believe God exists? We believe by faith (PEITHO/Persuasion). It is God's Spirit that persuades us to believe He exists. Without His faith persuading us to believe, because that's what faith is (Persuasion), everything we read about God would not make logical sense using our own human reasoning. It's not when we believe the truth with our mind about the existence of God, and that He is real. It's when His Spirit persuades us, gives us the faith (His faith) to believe He exists!

Jesse Nothing else will work until a man is Born Again and receives the Faith of Jesus Christ.

M The term logic or reason is something that can be validated. There is a place called Jerusalem which

means city of peace whats known as the holy lands because of events that are ACTUAL HISTORY I.E. birth

of Jesus Christ the Israel of Judean people, sea of Galilee, etc. The events are actual occurrences of the

miraculous that made up the way the land was marked and developed. Take the time to look honestly at

some statistics in nature not just in shapes but mathematically and get your mind blown. Humming birds

what they do aerodynamically is impossible, the wooly mammoth caterpillar in Alaska literally when it goes

into hibernation in the winter literally freezes almost solid then thaws out, mankind has no clue how it does

it! Explain to me how a nursing mothers milk not only changes daily nutrient wise according to growth stage.

Explain to me how when animals or birds migrate how they know where there going how there getting there

and when to leave and when to come back, so logically there has got to be an Intelligence behind all this

or illogically it was just all thrown together in perfect order? Just food for thought.

Romans 1

if we cannot see him through his creation. all around us,

we are without excuse.

Evidence of God I see is what exists before our eyes- our amazingly advanced human bodies and this world with beauty and amazing animals and plants that have complex interdependencies. We have never seen life come into existence from nothing on accident, so to believe in that isn't science but a religion. And no one has ever witnessed an animal changing to a different kind. So, the theory of evolution isn't scientific and can be refuted with logic.

Can you please share your proof?