Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Alex N
    Jesse no offence but i think that Judas was saved as our Lord died for every sinner. When Jesus prayed FATHER forgive them they know not what they do Thats the world as God so loved the world . There is not 1 sinner that his blood cannot forgive . WASH CLEAN. There is not 1 sin that is stronger then his blood for remission of OUR sins . Remember Joseph was a type of Christ and he forgave all his brethren that had sold him including Judah that had sold him for 20 pieces of silver . When Jesus said have not I chosen you 12 but 1 of you is a demon, that was all of them we are ALL born with a demon thats y we must be bornagain every one of us, Remember Jesus even refered to Peter as a SATAN , As we all have a demon according to our OLD demonic nature. We must remember that the blood was applied to every one of US . As our lord died for ppl like Judas . Behold the lamb of God that taketh the Sins of the world .

    Joseph brought All his brethren into the Kingdom on the 3 r day including Judah a type of Judas . He frankly forgave them ALL . How much more the Love of Jesus toward Judas. Its our old Adamic nature that should have neva been born .

    We will ALL have to go thru his baptism of fire....
  • Chris - in Reply
    Brother Alex. I've been following your comments for many months now. The problem that you have in getting your points across to many of us is because of your definition of biblical terms & Truth.

    People like Earl will appreciate what you write because he appears to understand the Bible in a similar fashion as you do. And I doubt that any amount of wordy exchanges between us would convince one side or the other to the other's belief.

    In the matters of rebirth, hell, Lake of Fire, judgement, the Holy Spirit being a grandson, even the purposes & accomplishments of the Cross, most will always find disagreement with you. And this is because your definition of those doctrines are in variance to what the Bible teaches. If the foundation is not clear & firm, anything we build on it will not be the same & become increasingly divergent. So Bible verses will no longer mean what they're intended to mean & other meanings have to be forced to make them align with our beliefs.

    Let us not diminish the "offence of the Cross". Satan rejoices that an easy path to salvation is presented because he knows that path leads to destruction. The Cross has & always will give forgiveness & hope to the convicted sinner, not a wishy-washy false hope that in the end all will be well. The Cross gives more than God's required payment for our sins - it saves us from an eternity of never-ending torment. If it were not so, there would be no need for such a great sacrifice & the offence of the Cross would have ceased. May we all be careful on how we read, interpret, & share from the Word.
  • Gigi - in Reply
    Thank you, Chris, for your statement here. You have defined the problem with such doctrines espoused by people such as these well. I guess, for me, having been on this site for only a month, perhaps the best place to start when processing divergent beliefs about vital topics is to go back to the basics and the beginning. "In the beginning God created.." Determining Who God is and what He is like is the foundation of our faith. If we get that wrong, we will get it wrong about Jesus and the salvation He won for us. So, I encourage everyone on here to go back to the basics and the beginning, and lay the foundation of our faith as Christians on what is true about the God we trust, love, and serve.

    You have done a loving thing to address these people in this manner.
  • Chris - in Reply
    Very true - thank you, GiGi. All too often, we neglect to "tremble in His Presence" & fail to "tremble at His Word". He may overlook our ignorance, but can He do likewise with our wilfulness? Humility is not only a trait seen before others, but especially whenever we approach the Throne of Grace & His precious Word.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Thank you Chris.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Hi Chris The concept falling to my knees almost in fear I don't see scripturally, how can we come boldly

    to the throne grace to find help in time of need if I'm terrified of my Father. Now I have absolutely respect

    and awe for His working for me in me and around me, but he's the Father I never had.

    Abraham was Gods

    friend and talked with him Moses was that close David was that close, these were children by adoption not

    by seed and they had respect and awe made mistakes but knew God would take care of them overlooking

    there weaknesses we are in a greater position than they we are His Children. He's lovingly corrected me

    a thousand times that is my respect and awe because he's working in me to do His good will and pleasure.

    That is my scriptural view point.
  • Chris - in Reply
    Hi Rick. I was citing the following Scriptures: Isaiah 66:5 and Jeremiah 5:22. In both verses, the narrative around them was to warn His people that God is a God Who cannot be taken lightly, ignored or despised. Israel & Judah were in every sense, God's chosen & beloved ( Jeremiah 31:1-3) - no matter whatever they did to displease Him, they remained his precious possession ( Ezekiel 44:28), but they would suffer under His Hand if they disobeyed. Yet, they continued to do so even to despising the Messiah of God & crucifying Him.

    While the natural branches of the olive tree were cut off so that those who call upon the Name of Jesus, might be engrafted in ( Romans 11:16-20), the engrafted ones (the adopted children of God), are in no more favourable position than what Israel enjoyed as being the 'natural branches of the tree'. We can indeed call Him 'Abba', come to Him anywhere, anytime, anyhow, & enjoy His Gracious Presence through His Spirit, but if we hold Him in awe & wonder, we also demonstrate that through our treatment of His Glory & Holiness & with the Word which He has given us.

    My reference to all this was to how we ought to read, understand & share God's Word. This is not a history book or novel that we can gloss over & give our impressions based on personal beliefs & sentiments, but the Word of God that requires careful, prayerful, & spiritual handling, both for our own exercises & for others. Given we have such a Book & such an Holy God, can we give them any less reverence & fear than those to whom God gave a sampling of His Glory ( Exodus 3:4-6; Isaiah 6:1-5; Ezekiel 1:28; Revelation 15:4-8). Israel could only approach God through the ministry of God's High priest & they enjoyed His blessings. We approach the same God through our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ, providing us such an access. Yet, the God of Israel has never changed - His love is the same - our stance before Him & His Word must be the same: one of great seriousness & carefulness.
  • Adam - in Reply
    I believe Judas will go to hell, because he betrayed Jesus to help murder him for profit. This is like blasphemy and turning his back on Jesus. Peter denied Jesus, which might also be a form of blasphemy, however, I believe Jesus forgave him through a special circumstance- asking if he loved Him three times.

    People are deceived if they believe everyone goes to heaven regardless of how much sick and vile evil they commit against God, like Hitler mass murdering people. Jesus already said most people will go to hell. Just read the gospels and his many parables. They are all similar themes- warning after warning.

    Jesus died for everyone, but forgiveness is contingent upon someone humbling themselves, repenting, confessing, believing, declaring Jesus is Lord and accepting the gift. Acts 2:38 - this requires an action. It doesn't say 'Do nothing and ye shall receive the gift' or 'Keep sinning as much as you want...' Here's another action requirement: repentance: Luke 5:32. Here's another confessing: 1 John 1:9.

    Romans 10:9 - notice the "If..." People don't say "if" unless it's conditional. Salvation is conditional.

    This says to believe: 1 John 5:13. It doesn't say 'not believing is totally fine.' Romans 12:2 - this says to be transformed and to not conform to the world. That's a big bummer for those hoping for a free get out of hell free card to enjoy a lifetime of sin and guilty pleasures. Look at this: John 8:11 and even this: James 2:26. Another: James 4:6. Reading the Bible for what it is paints a very different picture than the little summaries people like to spread around. People who ignore all the Bible's teachings and do whatever they want should be afraid for their soul: Luke 12:5. God bless.
  • Dee - in Reply
    I did not see a place for an offense. Neither did I take one. I am not sure if I was speaking directly to anyone. But I welcome any comments. However, it's one right to freedom of speech to disagree in an agreeable manner. Nevertheless, I hear your statement but I do not agree with your doctrine that we are all born as vessel fit for destruction such as Judas was. Read the Bible. There are some vessels that are fit for destruction and some for honor. Judas Iscariot was fit for destruction from the beginning. It is a damanable doctrine that one would teach that Judas was saved or received salvation. I have heard that lying teaching in other places. But it is a damanable doctrine because it destroys the souls of men and underminds the work of salvation. The devil enter into Judas. Show me when he got cast out of him. Judas went to hell. People are leaving this world every day going to hell. And many ministers or believers are to busy trying to make the pews padded and comfortable. Also, they taper the Word so that it feels good to people. But, I was not created as a vessel for destruction but for honor. No, I was shaped in sin but not destruction there is a difference. I know who I am in Christ Jesus. I am filled with the Spirit of God and have no need of man to teach me who I am. I am just speaking the truth in love. Whether you reject this response or not, it does not really matter. But so far your comment is misleading to all who will read it. It leads away from the shedded blood of Christ. One can preach Jesus but if he is not a bleeding Jesus then people are not saved. You see Judas had sold out the innocent blood. I can preach on this all day. I live what I preach. The blood of Jesus is to be taken and handled in a holy manner. Because as the blood Christ cleanse and saves then it can also destroy. Just start pleading it and a applying it.

    I love you with the love of the Lord

    But I hate error; lies

    Shalom!!?
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother Dee, does Jesus blood cover ALL MEN of just SOME MEN. Is it up to man to be saved or up to the saviour when they will be saved. There are ages to come after the age we are now in.

    Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    Every man born flesh and blood has to be destroyed.

    We are all a son of perdition that has to be destroyed.

    2 Thessalonians 2:8 Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall DESTROY with the brightness of his coming ( Hebrews 9:28).
  • Jesse - in Reply
    Alex,

    No offence taken. You make a valid point in that Jesus died for every sinner. That is true. And yes, Joseph forgave his brothers. But Joseph was not a "type" of Christ. Joseph had no saving power.



    And then you say "When Jesus said have not I chosen you 12 but 1 of you is a demon, that was all of them." How could that be all of them when Jesus said one, referring to Judas? Yes, "the Lord died for people like Judas." But as you properly state, "We must be born-again, every one of us." That's the key! We must be born again. I see zero evidence that Judas was ever "born-again?"

    Jesus did not refer to Peter as Satan. First of all, Jesus said to Peter get behind me. That's important. Jesus always emphasizes that whether it's Satan, people, or whoever it is, the proper position is always behind Him. He says to Peter, "Get behind me Satan." Again, He's not calling Peter Satan. He's speaking to the influence over Peter. It's Satan that says there will be no suffering or hardship in the flesh. Satan is the great defender of the flesh. And through human reason and logic, he will oppose any doctrine that presents the fact that if you follow Jesus, there will be suffering and persecution.

    He says thou art an offense (SCANDALIDZO) to me. A SCANDALON in Greek was actually a rock that you tripped over. So Jesus says, Satan you are throwing a rock in my path to keep me from reaching my goal. He says to Peter, "For thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." This comes from the Greek word PHRONAY which means frame of mind. Jesus is telling Peter that his frame of mind is not on the things of God, but on the things of man. When we hear about suffering, how do we react? Peter's reaction was, and his frame of mind was to defend and protect the flesh because the Lord had said He was going to be taken and be put to death, and Peter said that will never happen. Do you see where his frame of mind was?

    I'm sorry to hear that you born with a demon!
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother Jesse: Joseph was a saviour, just as we are going to be, when Christ and his elect judge the world.

    Obadiah 1:21

    Genesis 45:7 And God sent me before you to SAVE a posterity in the earth, and to SAVE your lives by a great deliverance.



    Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to SAVE much people alive.

    Joseph was a shadow as was Moses, Adam, Noah, etc. etc. to reveal the TRUE saviour of ALL MANKIND.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    I mean Earl, again, saying we will be saviors is blasphemous. There is only one Savior, the God/man Jesus Christ. No one else is a God/man but Hiim.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Hi Gigi I see what he connects but that chain is made out of butter over fire and doesn't hold against

    the truth of scripture. Its true we have Christ in us the hope of glory but to say we are saviours because

    God works in us through Christ is heretical which is an opinion elevated to a level of absolute even though

    not true. It is true we have in the age of grace been given the ministry of reconciliation but that is because,

    of Gods grace through Jesus Christ our lord and Saviour, so too say that we are saviours again out of context.

    To say that we will like God because in the old testament moses was called to lead the

    children out of Israel and God chose to display His Power through Moses again out of context, but trust me there's

    a saying here [a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still].
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    I understand this verse to mean that saviors refers to deliverers. It does not really say the way people would operate as deliverers, so I don't wish to take Earl's position and elevate myself higher than I ought to before our True Savior. Instead, I choose to be humble and accept that I am human and do not know all that God will make of me in the life to come or when He returns with to earth with the hosts of believers and angels. Jesus mentioned this humility and that we should wait for the master to lift us up to the position at the table He has chosen for us.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Thanks Rick, I appreciate your explanation here and the old saying at the end. I agree with it, but my thought expressed here are more for those who are reading these posts who are forming their beliefs about these matters than for the poster who speaks error, because you are right, there likely will not be a change of mind on is part.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Gigi It is written an heretic after the first and second admonition reject. According to Ephesians 6 this is my stand.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Gigi That didn't come out the way I meant it sorry bad hair day. LOL
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Rick, no problem, I have bad hair days every day since I am growing my hair out longer and it has for some reason become very curly! (which it never was before). Haha have a good day. Always goo to cat with you. I am fine with you pointing out where ever you think I may err. We all do at times. I endeavor to have a solid and accurate stance on topics, but I am still learning after all of these years walking with our Lord.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Gigi I read a very inspiring book years ago that I endeavored to put to practice, about Abraham Lincoln

    called Man of Steel and Velvet. It was enough to understand what he was up against the horror of the

    civil war. One example he had all the top officials at the white house during the blood bath at gettysburg

    and while they were there a messenger came in to tell them that we were slaughtering many men from

    the south. All the generals cheered, Lincoln always mild mannered turned and angrily said gentleman yelling

    what the hell are you cheering about were killing our fellow countrymen. Just thought you'd like that.
  • GiGi - in Reply
    Rick,

    That's a good quote. Thanks.

    Makes me wonder, though, why you shared it with me. People usually do have a reason for sending such messages and I want to understand your thinking.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Hi Gigi Your over thinking this, just thought you would like it.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    OK. Rick. Thanks, have a good night.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Sister GiGi, I quoted scripture;

    Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

    We are being created in the image of Christ, we will be exactly like him and will judge exactly like him.

    Do you believe the saints are going to judge the word.

    Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT WRITTEN: this honour hath all the saints.

    God Bless You!
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Alex, saying that we will be saviors is blasphemous.
  • Alex N - in Reply
    Gi Gi no offence i love ya in Christ Jesus . John 14 : 12 But our Lord tells us that if any man believe in me and the works that i do these works shall he do and GREATER shall he do. Was our Lord being blasphemous ? He also tells us the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us . And to whom the word came it made them Gods. God says he wd walk in them and talk in them and be their God and we wd be his ppl . Even bro. Paul says its not I that live but Christ that lives with in me . so we will be saviors , Is there any thing too hard for God .
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Alex,

    Love you, too, in our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    I believe that we have had this conversation before about believers becoming gods. Don't wish to re-hash.

    I will just leave you with these Scriptures where God is speaking and says there is no other gods but Himself:

    Isaiah 43:10

    "You are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me and understand that i am He. Before me there was no God found, neither shall there be after me."

    Is. 45:21 Ps. 86:10

    Is. 37:16 2 Sam. 17:22

    Is. 46:9 Is. 44:8

    Is. 45:5

    There are a multitude of other verses that unequivocally state that God is God alone, and there is no other besides Himself.

    Satan was overthrown and thrown out of Heaven because he believed he could ascend and become like God. We should heed the warning from this event and not think too highly of ourselves and think that we could ever become a god that that would share God's essence or Glory. He can not meet these things out to anyone else. He does have some communicable attributes such as love, mercy, compassion, wisdom, etc. that man can possess (but not to the infinitely perfect degree that He possesses them) in a limited finite capacity. It is in these communicable attributes that we are in His image, but never in His essence to be a god beside Him.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Alex N. There is no where in the bible where it says we are all born with demons or devils if that's the case you

    are saying that everyone is born possessed. Influenced yes, going by the senses yes but possession no.

    Brother that's not at all a profitable or loving thought or understanding. You have to show me that literally line

    by line and word by word. God Bless
  • Alex N - in Reply
    Hiya Rick but lets look at John 2 : 23 kjv. Many ppl believed in his name when they saw the miracles he did but Jesus wd not commit himself to them b/c he knew ALL MEN AND NEEDED NOT THAT ANY SHOULD TESIFY OF MAN. B/c he knew all Men Jesus knew what was in man. Jesus said outta of the hearts of man proceeds all manner of evil . Thats y he had to die Jesus said if i belifted up i will draw ALL men unto me As there was none righteous no not one . No not one.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Alex N Like I said you can't show what you stated line by line and word by word, you've made

    my point
  • Rick - in Reply
    Alex There's a major difference between some one not being righteous and what we stated previously is way

    off subject matter or way our of context so that being the case I'm moving on. God Bless!
  • Dee - in Reply
    He was not saved. He was a vessel fit for destruction.
  • Alex N - in Reply
    Dee no offence but we are are all born for destruction according to our old Adamic nature as Jesus said every sinner will have their part in the lake of fire , Malachi 3 : 1 kjv Who shall abide the day of his coming who shall stand when he appears, For he shall be as a refiners fire and fullers soap . Thats what the H.G. is a consuming fire as our God is a CONSUMING FIRE . Remember Jesus said i come to bring fire on the Earth. meaning mans Adamic Evil nature. Rev. speaks of the slain of the lord is gona be many. Its our old ADAMIC NATURE that he wants to destroy . Not mankind per se , I come not to destroy mens lives but to save mens lives . He wants to give us a new heart and a new spirit. But our old man is in rank with Satan thats y he refered to Peter as Satan.



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