Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • S Spencer
    UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT TO ABRAHAM.

    This is what is getting covered up by spritualizing certain text.

    And How it relates to us.

    Hebrews 6:13-19 (KJV) For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    Saying, SURELY BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE, and MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THEE.

    And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the IMMUTABILITY of his counsel, CONFIRMED IT BY AN OATH:

    That by TWO IMMUTABLE THINGS, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, AND WHICH ENTERED INTO THAT "WITHIN THE VEIL;"

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Here's the covenant and Promise between God and Abraham.

    TAKE NOTICE OF WHO IS THE LONE PARTICIPANT IN PERFORMING THE COVENANT.

    Here's Isaac being Promised.

    Genesis 15:4-5.

    Abraham's participation.

    Genesis 15:6.

    Here's the covenant performed.

    Genesis 15:8-11.

    NOTICE WHAT GOD DOES TO ABRAHAM.

    Genesis 15:12.

    This covenant being instituted by God only suggests its faithfulness depended on Gods PROMISE NOT ABRAHAM'S FAITHFULNESS!!

    Abraham faith was in God's PROMISE!!

    That's Mercy, Grace, and Faith apart from works. And Eternal Security all in view here.

    Galatians 4:28. !!

    Galatians 3:8-9.

    Galatians 3:13-15.

    THE PROMISE OF A SAVIOR GIVEN BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH!!

    Galatians 3:16-17.

    2 Corinthians 3.

    Galatians 3:18.

    THE TRUE VINE!

    AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

    Hebrews 10:16.

    Romans 6:6.

    Romans 8:10-11.

    ( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

    This is what's being attacked by those crept in from unawares.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi Hans.

    A conditional covenant is an agreement between two or more parties that requires certain terms to be met. If the terms are met, there will be one kind of result (favorable). If the terms are not met, there will be a different result (unfavorable).

    The case we have here is Abraham had no participation in the oath being made therefore he was not bound to an oath.

    It was the Lord given the promise and it was "HE" who confirmed it with an oath.

    Hebrews 6:13-14.

    Hebrews 6:17.

    It didn't take obedience of the Law to form the Covenant.

    Galatians 3:17-18.

    However I didn't Leave out obedience.

    Here's why and how we obey.

    AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

    THE TRUE VINE!

    John 151:17.

    Ps. You are not expected to bare fruit until AFTER you are connected to the vine.

    Notice verse 4.

    John 15:4.

    The branch cannot bear fruit of itself!!

    Nor does it produce the fruit!!

    Again. ( YOU CANNOT PRODUCE THE FRUIT ) YOU BEAR IT.!!

    ( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

    Hebrews 10:16

    Romans 6:6

    Romans 8:10-11.

    God bless.
  • Hans - in Reply
    I have to disagree S. Spencer , I recall that Abraham believed God and that's an act of obedience.

    To not believe is a form of disobedience. And considered sin .

    Read Genesis chapter 22 for context ,

    Read verse 16 " and said , By myself have I sworn , sayeth the Lord , for because thou hast done this thing , and not withheld thy son , thine only son : that in blessing I will bless thee

    Verse 18 because thou hast obeyed my voice .

    It's amazing God does test us to prove us as he did Abraham, if Abraham refused to obey , he also would have missed out on the blessing .

    An interesting story , here like the one of God giving his own Son Jesus , God did what he asked Abraham to do ! Pure Gold on Gods part He did what He asked of another to do , but with unmeasurable results.
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi Hans.

    You may want to go back over what you are disagreeing on.

    The Emphasis here is by faith Abraham was counted righteous APART from the deeds of the Law.

    Please see Galatians 4:21-28

    Here's the Context of my Original post

    Galatians 4:28

    Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Isaac is not a Child of the flesh

    " NOT OF ABRAHAM AND SARAH'S DOING THEY WERE BARREN."

    The Promise was given BEFORE Abraham believed.

    This promise was "INITIATED" and confirmed by a covenant back in

    Genesis 15:8-12. Not in Genesis 22.

    Abraham was put to sleep so God entered the covenant alone.

    Only he can break it!!

    It's not broken or held up by any condition of Abraham.

    "A conditional covenant needs both parties passing between the divided carcass."

    Now let's go over the steps in sequence.

    1 Abraham is given a Promise by God.

    Genesis 15:4-5.

    THEN.

    2 Abraham believed God. What did he believe in? God's PROMISE.

    Genesis 15:6.

    3rd God performs the covenant.

    Genesis 15:8-12.

    Note: The Land is tied to the promise, But that's for a different study.

    " Hebrews 11:8-10."

    THIS IS WHERE THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED TO ABRAHAM.

    " Galatians 3:5-10."

    1) We have God's PROMISE " His Word.

    2) We have Abraham believed the PROMISE "Faith "

    IMPORTANT TO NOTICE.

    ( Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:)

    3) In Genesis 22 We will see the Resurrection.

    GENESIS 22.16.

    Here in Genesis 22 what is it Abraham believed in? This is about 33 years after the "PROMISE OF ISAAC" in Genesis 15.

    Answer: Hebrews 11:17-19. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    ACCOUNTING THAT GOD WAS ABLE TO RAISE HIM UP, EVEN FROM THE DEAD; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    Abraham stumbled with these promises.

    Gen. 17:17-18.

    Thank God it's UNCONDITIONAL.

    GB
  • Hans - in Reply
    I still have a disagreement that it's unconditional.

    The condition is to believe, trust , have faith in God . And our actions prove this , it has little to do with the law .

    The law came after Abraham.

    God rewards obedience.

    And Gods the judge of that too .

    Abraham is the father of faithfulness . An example we should all seek to learn from .

    James said faith without works is dead . Abraham is an example of what James meant .

    I fully agree we are not justified by the keeping of the law .

    But obeying the same God as in Hebrews ch 2 .1,2,3,4

    John ch 6 v 44,45 Jesus confirms that God teaches all men or they will never come , they can disobey to their loss .

    Any way getting too long here , I hope this helps some .
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Thanks for the reply Hans.

    I'm sure we agree on more than we disagree on.

    God bless.
  • Hans - in Reply
    I'm in full agreement with the bible . Finding people that understand it is like finding gold , it's out there but hard to find .

    Today it's seems like good is evil and evil is good everywhere.

    Going to God is always sure as He is , through his son . I can talk to Jesus anytime and get responses as well .

    Only He can show us anything , if we are able to receive it . Sharing it with others is like finding gold again .

    I would encourage anyone ASK JESUS only he really knows how to answer you at the time of need .

    It's when we take it upon ourselves we mess up .

    Take heed to the scriptures like a light in a dark world . And there is nothing like Gods grace to give you peace beyond understanding. Amen
  • Hans - in Reply
    Who says unconditional?

    S Spencer ?

    What is obedience ?



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