When God told Moses that his name was Abraham, Issac and Jacob , That is MY NAME FOR EVER AND MY MEMORIAL TO ALL GENERATIONS. God told Moses this simply b/c there is gonna be an Israel of God. Its God himself that wants a posterity remember God swore by his very self when he made that great Promise of multiplication. Thus there has to be an Israel of God when the sower will go forth to sow his precious seed in humanity the word and Jesus said to whom the word came it made the Gods thus this Israel of God is an ORDER OF Gods that is gonna be born in us sinners. When ya think of the H.G. think of a 3 rd person that can be born in us via the seed of Jesus, Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is Spirit his good seed is the word which is spirit thus his Children are spirits ( the babes and sucklings )
And Jesus is their father thats y he says he that soweth the good seed is the SON OF MAN
There cd not be a H.G. the Child of PROMISE ( the Granson ) if Jesus didn't sow his precious seed in our hearts as the H.G. has to be BORN in us via his seed . Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the word of God ( the living words) His BREATH etc. Ya gotta realise that Jesus multiplies after the God kind not after man's Kind. As Romans 9 : 8. Flesh and blood are NOT the Children of God, its the Children of Promise that are counted for that good seed ( the H.G.) THE CHILD OF promise, The Granson. We are just a JOINT HEIR. How cd the H.G. be the GRANSON simply b/c Christ Jesus is the FATHER OF THAT HEAVENLY CHILD. Even in the natural bridegooms most always becomes FATHERS. As we have borne the image of the earthy we must also bear ( birth ) the image of the heavenly
The Kingdom has to come via his seed the living word, his breath was his word which is his seed. Just as Solomon came out of Davids loins meaning his seed so the H.G. will come outta of Christ loins his seed etc God wd not let David the son build the Temple only the GRANSON . Y
In what I have researched, you are espousing heresy in promoting that believers become gods. That idea has been renounced and strongly rejected across the centuries. It was not taught by the apostles. I believe that you have twisted and added to the Scriptures with your interpretation. I am sorry to need to say this to you. But I have to go with the the lead of the Holy Spirit on this and speak out on this matter.
I wish you blessings as you pursue to know the truth of the nature of the Godhead and about us, his adopted children.
We have been this route before. I will stand on what I know and you will do so for yourself. You seem to call anything that does not agree with your interpretation to be doctrines of men. That attitude is problematic to me. But, even so, we I have should always be willing to learn and grow in our walk of faith. I have warned you about the error of your theology, which we are called to do by Scripture. I leave you now to God in this matter. I wish to end my contribution to this thread with you. We have both said what we believe, and disagree. It is what it is.
Sister GiGi. I understand that you wisely don't wish to pursue with this thread, but I offer the following for understanding what is seen in the verses Earl has presented.
Psalm 82:6, the verse which Jesus quotes to the Jewish leaders, refers to "gods" as 'Elohim'. This is a word that has several meanings, as it applies to both the true God & to other applications of that word. Elohim is a generic word, used for God ( Genesis 1:1); for pagan gods ( Genesis 31:30, Exodus 12:12); for angels ( Psalm 8:5, cf Hebrews 2:7); for men ( Psalm 82:6); for judges ( Exodus 21:6).
So when we come to John 10:34-36, Jesus is being accused of blasphemy, "thou, being a man, makest thyself God", since Jesus had said to them, "I and my Father are one" & in previous verses. Jesus then goes on to explain that the 'Elohim' of Psalm 82:6, which corresponds to the 'theos' of John 10:34, should actually not be a problem to them as we're all 'gods' in this general meaning of the word, 'Elohim' - we are NOT part of the Deity & NEVER will be, nor of the angelic realm, but certainly of men, rulers & judges (as those so appointed).
The Lord then continues His discourse with the Jews, questioning them, 'that if He is sanctified & sent by God, doing the Works of God, why shouldn't His claim to be the Son of God bother them?' Since we all come under the general word 'theos', if One coming, does the Works of God & brings the Word of God, should He not be rightfully (& more correctly) be called the Son of God? Is Jesus side-stepping the revelation of His actual position as God in the flesh? I see Jesus answering the Jews according to the charge they were laying against Him, that His claim 'making Himself God', was no different to any other claim to it by others. But if their eyes would one day be opened, they would realize that before them was no generic 'Elohim/Theos', but Theos Himself. They were far from reaching that position of understanding, not even understanding Psalm 82:6 & meaning of Elohim.
Thank you very much for such a good explanation. I appreciate this. I think that if people are willing to define terms and explain their thinking it is so much easier to understand someone's viewpoint. You have done that. Alex and Earl have not. They have listed a long list of cherry picked verses to "prove" their interpretation. Jesus and the Epistle writers did not do this like Alex and Earl. They would quote a Scripture and ten explain at length what the Scripture meant and how it is to be applied.
Sp, again, thank you for giving more context to the topic.
Well written GiGi. Some of us have been following these many & varied comments for a few years now, so we can understand where some folk come from in regards to understanding Scripture. And as much as this is an open medium to share one's thoughts on the Scriptures & I try to read & seek to understand every comment given, I have to confess that I do need to do some mental & spiritual gymnastics (even contortions) to try & assimilate some things being written here. For the brothers in question (& even some others), I truly believe they genuinely love the Lord & are doing their best to interpret the Word, so I rather leave the matter unless specifically addressed to me. But unfortunately, the matter is then never pursued.
My understanding is that the Word of God is God's Message through His spokesmen, delivering what mankind needs to hear & learn. First for His people Israel, & then to the World. If any take the Bible & submerge it in types, allegories, metaphors & mystical meanings, then it really is of no use to anyone & interpretation is open to whatever one deems it to be. Where the message needs explaining, the explanation is given in the Word - whether the parables, the Book of Revelation, or even Paul's epistles (e.g. Sarah/Hagar). Where the meaning is not given, the Word is stored in our hearts for the Spirit's revealing in His Time. Therefore, I find it best to leave arguing on such divergent interpretations, except to state in the same thread what my understanding of it is, as a alternate understanding for other people's consideration. Many of us appreciate your clear Scriptural foundations, your vibrant sharing, & defence of the Truth. Every blessing.
I think like you do on all points in your post. This is my first time being a part of any online forum. I am new to this and am learning the ropes. I, too, only wish to present a point of view that may not have yet been said on a topic or to share on a topic where there is similarity of viewpoint. I am not trying to argue, as I do not think you are, either, because presenting a viewpoint and even going back and forth a few times is actually a part of discussing. Some people do not like that, especially if someone presents a strong viewpoint. But, I do not think a strong viewpoint is wrong nor a weak viewpoint right or visa versa. No one is obligated to read or respond to anyone on this site, as far as I know. So, each person will decide for themselves what to attend to and what to pass over.
I very much believe that everyone I have read on this site have a deep love for God and are exercising their own thinking on spiritual matters, which is such a good thing. Certainly one of the good things to come of the internet is to enable a forum like this. It is edifying and challenges us to re-think our own views and consider others. This is profitable.
I am grateful for reply to me and your advice is welcome.
Anyway He attempt to build his Case that God's name is Abraham, Issac and Jacob from these verses.
Of course you have to leave out verse 13 and 14, Then use your imagination for verse 15.
Exodus 3:13-15. And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
I have realized what you are saying. Yet, I respond because there may be some on this site that need to hear someone call out the views espoused by Alex for what they are, false teachings, so that these people will not be ensnared by is teachings.
And Jesus is their father thats y he says he that soweth the good seed is the SON OF MAN
There cd not be a H.G. the Child of PROMISE ( the Granson ) if Jesus didn't sow his precious seed in our hearts as the H.G. has to be BORN in us via his seed . Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the word of God ( the living words) His BREATH etc. Ya gotta realise that Jesus multiplies after the God kind not after man's Kind. As Romans 9 : 8. Flesh and blood are NOT the Children of God, its the Children of Promise that are counted for that good seed ( the H.G.) THE CHILD OF promise, The Granson. We are just a JOINT HEIR. How cd the H.G. be the GRANSON simply b/c Christ Jesus is the FATHER OF THAT HEAVENLY CHILD. Even in the natural bridegooms most always becomes FATHERS. As we have borne the image of the earthy we must also bear ( birth ) the image of the heavenly
The Kingdom has to come via his seed the living word, his breath was his word which is his seed. Just as Solomon came out of Davids loins meaning his seed so the H.G. will come outta of Christ loins his seed etc God wd not let David the son build the Temple only the GRANSON . Y
In what I have researched, you are espousing heresy in promoting that believers become gods. That idea has been renounced and strongly rejected across the centuries. It was not taught by the apostles. I believe that you have twisted and added to the Scriptures with your interpretation. I am sorry to need to say this to you. But I have to go with the the lead of the Holy Spirit on this and speak out on this matter.
I wish you blessings as you pursue to know the truth of the nature of the Godhead and about us, his adopted children.
With love.
GiGi
Thanks for letting me know. I am not offended. May you be richly blessed today and always
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; ye are the children of the most high.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, is it not written in you law, I have said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, to whom the word (truth) of God came, and the scripture CANNOT be broken;
There is no twisting or interpreting this scripture.
You either BELIEVE or DON'T BELIEVE what it says.
The doctrines of men don't believe, I believe the doctrines of WORD.
God Bless You.
We have been this route before. I will stand on what I know and you will do so for yourself. You seem to call anything that does not agree with your interpretation to be doctrines of men. That attitude is problematic to me. But, even so, we I have should always be willing to learn and grow in our walk of faith. I have warned you about the error of your theology, which we are called to do by Scripture. I leave you now to God in this matter. I wish to end my contribution to this thread with you. We have both said what we believe, and disagree. It is what it is.
Psalm 82:6, the verse which Jesus quotes to the Jewish leaders, refers to "gods" as 'Elohim'. This is a word that has several meanings, as it applies to both the true God & to other applications of that word. Elohim is a generic word, used for God ( Genesis 1:1); for pagan gods ( Genesis 31:30, Exodus 12:12); for angels ( Psalm 8:5, cf Hebrews 2:7); for men ( Psalm 82:6); for judges ( Exodus 21:6).
So when we come to John 10:34-36, Jesus is being accused of blasphemy, "thou, being a man, makest thyself God", since Jesus had said to them, "I and my Father are one" & in previous verses. Jesus then goes on to explain that the 'Elohim' of Psalm 82:6, which corresponds to the 'theos' of John 10:34, should actually not be a problem to them as we're all 'gods' in this general meaning of the word, 'Elohim' - we are NOT part of the Deity & NEVER will be, nor of the angelic realm, but certainly of men, rulers & judges (as those so appointed).
The Lord then continues His discourse with the Jews, questioning them, 'that if He is sanctified & sent by God, doing the Works of God, why shouldn't His claim to be the Son of God bother them?' Since we all come under the general word 'theos', if One coming, does the Works of God & brings the Word of God, should He not be rightfully (& more correctly) be called the Son of God? Is Jesus side-stepping the revelation of His actual position as God in the flesh? I see Jesus answering the Jews according to the charge they were laying against Him, that His claim 'making Himself God', was no different to any other claim to it by others. But if their eyes would one day be opened, they would realize that before them was no generic 'Elohim/Theos', but Theos Himself. They were far from reaching that position of understanding, not even understanding Psalm 82:6 & meaning of Elohim.
Thank you very much for such a good explanation. I appreciate this. I think that if people are willing to define terms and explain their thinking it is so much easier to understand someone's viewpoint. You have done that. Alex and Earl have not. They have listed a long list of cherry picked verses to "prove" their interpretation. Jesus and the Epistle writers did not do this like Alex and Earl. They would quote a Scripture and ten explain at length what the Scripture meant and how it is to be applied.
Sp, again, thank you for giving more context to the topic.
My understanding is that the Word of God is God's Message through His spokesmen, delivering what mankind needs to hear & learn. First for His people Israel, & then to the World. If any take the Bible & submerge it in types, allegories, metaphors & mystical meanings, then it really is of no use to anyone & interpretation is open to whatever one deems it to be. Where the message needs explaining, the explanation is given in the Word - whether the parables, the Book of Revelation, or even Paul's epistles (e.g. Sarah/Hagar). Where the meaning is not given, the Word is stored in our hearts for the Spirit's revealing in His Time. Therefore, I find it best to leave arguing on such divergent interpretations, except to state in the same thread what my understanding of it is, as a alternate understanding for other people's consideration. Many of us appreciate your clear Scriptural foundations, your vibrant sharing, & defence of the Truth. Every blessing.
I think like you do on all points in your post. This is my first time being a part of any online forum. I am new to this and am learning the ropes. I, too, only wish to present a point of view that may not have yet been said on a topic or to share on a topic where there is similarity of viewpoint. I am not trying to argue, as I do not think you are, either, because presenting a viewpoint and even going back and forth a few times is actually a part of discussing. Some people do not like that, especially if someone presents a strong viewpoint. But, I do not think a strong viewpoint is wrong nor a weak viewpoint right or visa versa. No one is obligated to read or respond to anyone on this site, as far as I know. So, each person will decide for themselves what to attend to and what to pass over.
I very much believe that everyone I have read on this site have a deep love for God and are exercising their own thinking on spiritual matters, which is such a good thing. Certainly one of the good things to come of the internet is to enable a forum like this. It is edifying and challenges us to re-think our own views and consider others. This is profitable.
I am grateful for reply to me and your advice is welcome.
We've all tried with Alex.
We mostly ignore his crying out.
He's looking for an open door.
All he does is repeat himself.
Anyway He attempt to build his Case that God's name is Abraham, Issac and Jacob from these verses.
Of course you have to leave out verse 13 and 14, Then use your imagination for verse 15.
Exodus 3:13-15. And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
God bless
Have you every meditated on why God said; tell them I AM sent me.
I AM the first and last.
That they ALL may be ONE, as we are ONE.
I AM Adam
I AM Noah
I AM Moses
I AM Abraham
I AM Isaac
I am Jacob
I AM David
I AM Solomon
I AM the prophets
I Am S Spencer
I AM ALL in ALL
There is ONLY one LIFE; I AM (the life)
Alex, may be closer to understanding, judge not. We are on a learning curve, until we all come into unity.
I'm not sure I follow those I Am quotes.
I was just saying In Those verses I'm sure you yourself don't see where God tells Moses his Name is Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Do you?
Just use the Search Box on the red page.
I am Abraham
I am Moses
God is a consuming Fire. He is Spirit. He is the Father.
It's going to fetch many many scriptures. You'll be well informed after reading all that.
I have realized what you are saying. Yet, I respond because there may be some on this site that need to hear someone call out the views espoused by Alex for what they are, false teachings, so that these people will not be ensnared by is teachings.
I certainly agree with that.
God bless.
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