Bible Discussion Thread

It Is Written

Many christians when discussion believing and haith consider it to be one and the same but it is not. Believing is in the mind or thought and then is carried out in action or application. Faith is what we were given spiritually when we became born again we received the faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:22-26 it states before faith came, there was no spiritual faith before pentecost because it was not available. As it says Abraham was justified by believing although the word faith is used there is a word pistis that depending on context could be translated spiritual faith or believing. We who are born again have been given the faith of Jesus Christ but we grow in our believing when we renew our minds and walk or operate the spirit we have been given.

For me to say I gotta have more faith, I can't get anymore, but I can believe greater to walk in the promises given. That's why in the church epistles it is called the faith of Jesus Christ, we grow in our walk of believing what we have been given but,spiritually we aren't going to receive anymore. This is why in the church epistles and placed in the gospels what you believe in the mind and move on determines out come in life

Its not just that we believe its also what we believe that determines outcome, the three items in the mind that restrict Believing by faith are WORRY DOUBT AND FEAR. None of which are from God. 2 Tim.1:7 is from God.

Yes, you are correct that I was saying what I thought was occurring in this account.

And that is just like you are saying what you though Gal 3: was saying about faith, but it does not say that spiritual faith was given at Pentecost and after. I do not read or know of anywhere in Scripture that there was no true spiritual faith in God before Pentecost.

If you know of any such passage in the Scripture please show it to me.

I, too, want to have my thinking refer back to Scripture, but, inevitably, we will interpret what we read in the Word according to our own biases and past learnings.

I really don't believe we argue or fight our contention is to understand, like it says doctrine reproof and correction, my heart is show me whats right and prove it and I change, because a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still, I try to gaurd my mind on what not to believe but change it when shown where I'm wrong and move on.

Agreed. Good conversation will challenge us in good ways. Thanks.

There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors and Iron sharpen Iron, the word is like a spring of water we are always refreshing and because of it learning and growing, we don't want the dry deserts of unbelief built on traditions of men.

Lets share some heart and let the word do the work.

Agreed, David. We are to walk in the freedom of the Spirit and be willing to learn from others, whether alive now or long ago having died in Christ. I do not reject or despise traditions if I can source them back to the early church practices. In the epistles, many traditions were already being practiced. We, today, are connected by Christ to those early church as well as all believers through the centuries. Christianity is not new on the scene today. In the early church there was so much variation among the congregations because the Christian faith was new and hadn't worked through many factions and differences in practices yet. Some of this is due to the isolation of many congregations, the teachings of their leaders, the slowness of communication between congregations and the apostles, and the limits of the apostles to travel in a timely way. The church went through many changes in the first 200+ years. There was a need to address doctrines that were heretical and to refute sects such as the Judaizers, Docetists, and Gnostics that had arisen within the church.

Sis Gnostics were really out there they were playing with a combination of mysticism and off the wall spiritualism, Judaism was basically wrapped up in legalistic law i.e. if you don't do this or that your not holy, pharresitic thinking.

In the dark ages mysticism took hold and really went nuts.

Gigi I am aware of four belief systems that started after the downfall of the first century church and are still carried out



but father says don't!

There is mention of the Nicolations in Revelations. Some Gnostic sects were the Manicheans and Montanists. During the time of the apostles, Gnosticism was just emerging from within the church. Greek philosophical thought was being applied to spiritual matters, which led to errors as well. The whole Roman world had been Hellenized after Alexander the Great's conquest in the 300's B.C.

Gigi Last point when the apostles were around Jesus Christ and witnessed everything he did and please correct me he said to Peter when peter said thou art the Son of God Jesus Christ said flesh and blood did not reveal this to him, other than that constantly Jesus Christ said when the father sends the comforter Holy spirit he will show you all things which didn't occur until Jesus Christ completed what God gave Him to do for us. When I read the gospels the disciples were blown away all the time by what they saw and wondered how is he doing that. The words astonished and behold are constantly used they could have said blown away just as well. God Bless.

Gigi The question is who made available the spiritual faith of Jesus Christ, it was Gods giving by the completed work of His son after the resurrection. The law ended on Pentecost, Jesus christ fulfilled the law and the prophets that's why we are not justified by works of the law no flesh is justified. That's what Paul was up against when he went to Jerusalem and the division with them still doing the law in the Book of Galatians 2 whole chapter the contention was intense because they were operating under works not understanding the grace. The work is in the renewed mind walk in the spiritual faith if Jesus Christ. Here's the kicker if you are not born again you cannot renew your mind spiritually because you have to have spirit to do that just like fruits of the spirit. It is not a senses mental intellect thing. I'm not here to convince anybody I'm just sharing. It's the individuals privilege what to consider.

thanks, I understand your thinking and agree that we understand spiritual matters through the Sprit, but paul also said that he uses his mind , too.( Can't recall the scripture, sorry)

Gigi Its in corinthians. Here's an example nor reading in detail, I was one time taught that speaking in tongues which a lot of people don't believe in that's ok its a special gift. I know many pastors that didn't believe in doing that talked to a friend of there's that did showed them what the word said and they did it. In Corinthians chapter 12 Paul in verse one and four says gifts then in verse 7 it says manifestation of the spirit, there is a big difference between gift and manifestation, I can receive something inwardly but the proof is the display in the senses realm, Jesus Christ displayed Gods power in the realm of the senses. He showed spiritual power.

I wonder how the gift of wisdom is aa outward manifestation, since it is a supernatural understanding of spiritual things in the inward man.

Hi Gigi Sorry this may come through twice not sure anyway, my understanding of operation of word of wisdom is our inner man communicating with our mind on the action to take in a situation to achieve Gods outcome the manifestation of that is the display or the outcome. In 2 Kings 4:32 elisha went into the house and the child was dead. First action prayed or ask God whats up next word of knowledge what to do and how to do it word of wisdom which is verse 34, notice the detail incredible then next verse 35 paced around the house to receive more info because the child wasn't complete yet, next again information on what to do and how to do it precisely stretched himself upon the child and the child sneezed seven times[ side note seven biblically spiritual perfection] verse 36 called for the woman and gave her son back. Everything was in order and Glorified God and the recipient and the giver. Also there are times when God may tell you to remove all unbelievers out in a situation. Prayerfully this helps

Gigi The outward manifestation is the outcome of the action on the information given. The out come will always Glorify God and bless the recipient and the giver.

Gigi Wisdom I understand the correct application of knowledge so when the spirit the inner man will inform you on how to carry out that which you are told to do to achieve Gods outcome. When they threw the women caught in adultery in front of Jesus Christ he calmly said nothing but drew in sand waiting for God to give what to say wisdom his speaking those without sin cast the first stone is carrying out that which God told him to back off the religious leaders. This is my understanding, word of knowledge is the spirit the inner man making you aware of whats going on then to act or not.

Good Morning, Rick

I read the chapter in 1 Corinthians 12 and recall that it says that there are a diversity of spiritual gifts, but one Spirit who bestows these gifts within believers.. And, it says that He distributes these within the body as he wills. No .one is given all of the gifts, nor is everyone given the same gift/s. I have had hands laid on me with prayer for the Spirit to work further in me when I was in college. But I do believe that everyone receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at conversion and that the Spirit will work in each believer for His power to be manifested in the gifts He gives.

Gigi P.S. By the way I've been in places of worship where supposedly the quote un guote spirit was in operation and it was absolutely ungodly confusion and confusion is not of our God. But there's something that I was taught years ago experience is no guarantee for truth, I always line it up against Gods Word to figure whats really going on, because as you and I both know the enemy plays and manipulates the truth.

Good Morning and God Bless Here's where the fun begins for some detail verse 7 says manifestation, the Gift as you shared is Holy Spirit Gift God given no charge believe and start doing the word, now that you operate the gift is up to you according to your individual believing to operate and walk. The gift is the God given ability the act is carrying out in action of the God given ability then its manifested in the sense realm as we act on what we received.

Example years ago ago my oldest son, came up out of a basement and heavy wooden door slammed His head so loud my wife came out and a neighbor next door. I immediately picked Him up and God said do not look at him just walk around the yard and pray and hold his head. In minutes he immediately shook a little then dad put me down, and he was running around. Now all this transpired in minutes.

He was healed if I would not have operated on the information I received from Father he would not have been healed. Now I not only ministered to my son but the neighbor watched the whole thing later came over ask about it was an open door to share the word and His whole family turned on. We are not defense attorneys for God we are witnesses.

I'm sure and be blessed that we'll have more to share.

Gigi I have seen others use the same absolution when they say this is what it is and yes I am one to endeavor to state it is written because who's the author? I believe he said what he meant, when he said it to whom he said it why he said it and where he said it because God means what he says and says what he means also there places where original language makes a difference and understanding eastern culture makes a difference. Like you said its your privilege to read and move on or comment, I do the same.

Thanks you, Rick.

In Mark 9 The father of a child with a violent mute spirit seeks Jesus' help. He did believe that Jesus had the power to cast out the evil spirit, but was doubting whether Jesus would do so for his son, since the disciples had not been able to do so. Jesus says, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes." Immediately, the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help me in my unbelief!"

The father was asking for Jesus to increase is ability to believe, but he did have faith.

Gigi I'll stick with whats written Jesus Christ said anything is possible to him that believeth and the man said help thou mine unbelief, it doesn't say faith and its you privilege to put that in their but this was before pentecost before anyone could be born again with spiritual faith.