Bible Discussion Thread

Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Lord, The Holy One of Israel;

I have read all of the comments on this chapter and admit that this is a disturbing chapter. But then again, should it be more disturbing to us that in Genesis when Adam and Eve sinned? No, not really. However, are the sins of Sodom and Gomorah grave sins? Yes! Primarily, the sin of homosexuality. The text highlights this sin when God was ready to bring judgement on these cities. Some asked why Lot was sitting at the gates to the city. I think that his home was most likely outside of the gates of the city. he was in a way "separated" from the inhabitants of the city. I think at first when me chose these plains to live and tend his flocks, Lot continued in the ways of the faith that Abraham brought him up in under Abraham's guardianship. These people lived in tends and travelled around the area to keep their flocks fed and watered. At some point Lot built a house and settled near the gates of the city. He began to know of the ways of these cities and it grieved him. He may have witnessed to the people of these cities, but they didn't heed his preaching and devised more ways to be wicked. Yet, Lot decided to stay instead of shaking the dust off of his sandals and moving to another city in the plains. he did not remove his family from the wicked influences of these places. He failed a as a patriarch in this way and I'm sure was torn between living for God and keeping his family unaffected by the wicked ways of these people and trying to make a living among them. I don't think that Lot ever participated in the sin of homosexuality. It doesn't say where and when he found his wife and married her. Was she from these cities? She wasn't from the kin of Abraham because Abraham did not have an heir until Ishmael was born and he was still a youth. Maybe he went back to Haran to take a wife from their kin like Isaac and Jacob did. We don't know. And his daughter's husbands? Where from? Sodom.

I understand that when "Lot sat in the gate of Sodom" ( Genesis 19:1), this was a significant place for administration, welcoming visitors, or for policing/judgement. I've thought of Lot as having integrated himself well into that society & even risen to a level of holding a venerable position before its citizens. One can compare the use of the 'gate' in 2 Samuel 19:8; Esther 5:13; Psalm 69:12; Proverbs 22:22.

And in truth, the sins of Sodom were probably far more rampant in its many forms & intensities, that would have moved God in such a mighty way against that city's inhabitants. And even today, peoples & governments all over the world scoff & scorn the Word of God & the coming Day of Great Wrath upon them. Man will never learn, 'professing themselves to be wise, they showed themselves, fools'.

Thanks for your thoughts. After posting this I read the the gates of the city was just what you said. Lot may have lived inside the city walls or outside. In excavating the site that is thought to be Sodom, there was found settlement both Inside the walls and outside. I am sure Lot began to slowly compromise his viewpoints and actions the longer he stayed with these people. I see that in my Mom and her views about homosexuality over the years due to spending time with my sisters who and their partners. When I was a teenager, she believed homosexuality is sinful, but now after so many years of interacting with my lesbian sisters, she has compromised her viewpoint. Granted, my sisters have many good qualities and have been very helpful to my Mom. So, now, in her later years (she just turned 88) she states the oft spoken "I think they were born that way." I continue to pray for my sisters and Mom. There whole personage is wrapped up in this identity. To turn away from it would mean leaving their spouse and forsaking who they have been for 50+ years. This is a big spiritual struggle. I have yet to meet a family that has three homosexual members like mine. Family gatherings happen and we attend for my Mom's sake). But my younger siblings and I talk to each other about how uncomfortable we are around our sisters, especially when their spouses attend. Just kind of weird to me, but i am thankful that I have been spared this influence when I in my teen years and more so that I was a strong believer and God has used me to be one who stands in the gap for my family for all these years.

That was so sad to read GiGi about your sisters. I've not had much experience in dealing with those who have homosexual tendencies, though from what I've observed, there has usually been some tragedy that they have faced, or an environment that caused them to be drawn to those of the same gender, or even a very strong continuous grooming to that end, with experimentation. I would even think that facing rejection or abuse might cause one to 'turn', but I couldn't conceive that one born into this world normally & given a good balanced love-filled life, would one day decide to turn to the other gender. I can't even envisage that this would be a matter of choice such as in choosing what clothes to wear tomorrow, rather of some turmoil in the life that has caused one's affections to go in such manner. But I've never studied this, so my comments are simply my own & to be taken as such. Though it's remarkable that all three of your older siblings have gone that way - there maybe a common thread in there somewhere.

But if we are continually faced with worldly offerings & our peers or the majority voice are readily accepting them, then it would take a very strong character with godly principles to withstand or even giving them any concession. And with the majority who might ridicule the resistant one, the pressure & pain becomes even worse. Praise God for His Word which reveals His Mind & so we know that our stand against evil has His affirmation, which gives us boldness & confidence.

Thanks Chris,

I really can't say what influenced my sisters or how it came about that the enemy deceived them. I also know of a friends in laws, the dad is a pastor and one son is in ministry, but a sister and brother are homosexuals. They probably had a loving upbringing in a Christian home and still they were drawn into the lifestyle. Some things we will not be able to know but we can continue to pray and stand firm. Over the years my sisters have not had much to do with me because they know of my strong faith. One year, my sister who is 16 months older than me called me out of the blue and wanted to meet with me. We met and she shared that it bothered her that I could not accept her relationship with her partner, since I had declined to attend a commitment ceremony for their 25th yr. together, and I wrote why I could not attend.

We had a good discussion. much was said that got a lot of things out inn the open. We then meet monthly for dinner for a year or so to get to know each other more since we are sisters. She mentioned how nervous she was to first try to get to know me , but that now after she knew me better she realized I was a very kindhearted person and "safe" for her even though I still said I would continue to pray for her. (she did not like that) We now see each other a few times a year, but not as I would someone who shares my faith in Christ. My other two sisters have never initiated a conversation with me about their lifestyle and I have not spoken to them about it. I think it is up to them to reveal things to me. I am sure they feel uncomfortable about doing that and are concerned about what I might say. I treat them kindly when we have family events,, but don't feel right about entering their home or being very relational with them unless they would ask for it. I am sure they have talked with my other sister about our meetings that took place 15 years ago. It's different and I try to follow the lead of the Spirit only in interacting or not

Thank you GiGi for sharing those very intimate matters. Maybe, there's a lot we don't understand & we just have to be there to pray, guide & counsel, as we're led or allowed to. May the Lord minister in & through you as you have opportunity to meet with your sisters. The Lord can & does move in 'mysterious ways' & we must but trust Him for 'His wonders to perform'.

Sometimes the Lord has us pray and witness for years and years before we get the privilege of seeing our prayers answered. Other times we pray and pray and may not see the answer in this lifetime. I know people who have prayed for unsaved loved ones up until they died and then after that event the answer to prayer comes to the one prayed for.

I prayed for 35 years for one person to get help for bi-polar disorder. He was involved in criminal matters and crimes against persons. He should have been in prison for some of these offenses and there he would have been forced into a treatment plan. Finally God had him meet a woman who convinced him to get treatment and after getting treatment, they married when he was about 50. He continues in treatment and has not had terrible episodes like in the past since beginning treatment.