Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Bro dan
    I'm sure that many will agree that some bible scripture is easy to understand, and some not as easy. For me, I find that the following scripture falls into the - not as easy to understand category.

    I would be interested to hear how others here, interpret this scripture:

    Luke 17:34-35

    34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    Thanks in advance, and God Bless.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother Dan, from the foundation of the world God had a PURPOSE.

    He has always used men to fulfill his PURPOSE.

    Romans 9:11 ... that the PURPOSE of ELECTION might stand.

    He has PURPOSED that there will be a KINGDOM on this EARTH, and ALL creation will be in this kingdom.

    God CHOOSES people to fulfill his PURPOSE. Not because he loves one more than another, but because he has ELECTED that person to fulfill the purpose he chose for them.

    You can see this because God has recorded his word for us to understand this ELECTION of persons.

    The age we are NOW IN, God is calling out those he has ELECTED to be Priest in His Kingdom.

    Not everyone is called, only his sheep hear his voice, those not of the Election to be priest don't hear this voice because they are not called to be priest, but will come into the kingdom later, at the resurrection to judgement.

    Judgement is not punishment, but coming to TRUTH.

    Christ took our PUNISHMENT.

    It's really easy TO REST in Christ when you understand, this purpose of election.

    One will be (taken as a priest) the other will be left to (come into God's election at another time).

    But ALL will eventually be in the KINGDOM OF GOD.
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Brother Earl,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. It's hard for me to grasp that "all" will be in the Kingdom.

    I do certainly agree with you, That God/Christ is in charge, and it His will that trumps all!

    God Bless
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother Dam:

    It's all about being in agreement with the scriptures.

    There is plenty of the scriptures you agree with now, when you find those that you don't seem to be in full agreement with, ask Christ to cause you to believe.

    Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE IN HIM (Christ is all the words in our bible), but to also suffer (through suffering Christ LEARNED OBEDIENCE) for his sake.

    Psalms 22:27 And all the ends of the earth shall REMEMBER (they can't remember in the grave, they remember when they are resurrected back to their bodies of flesh) and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

    In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man was in torment in the FLAME.

    Psalms says Christ ministers are FLAMES of FIRE.

    Obadiah says the house of Joseph is a FLAME.

    The torment those in the resurrection suffer, is mental torment, not physical torment.

    Put yourself in their place, you (rich man) have just been resurrected back to earthly flesh, and standing before you all the ELECT (Lazarus) and CHRIST in glorified bodies and you (rich man) in a body of flesh. It will be utter TORMENT (in that flame) because you will REMEMBER.
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Bro Earl,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and scripture.

    It encourages me to study, and pray for increased wisdom - wisdom to fear God!

    GBU
  • Gigi - in Reply
    Bro Dan,

    I am surprised that you have not had any responses on this post. Most would say that this is concerning the rapture. Others say that this is what will happen when Christ return at the end of the age and we meet Him in the air. I lean towards the second interpretation. The one taken is the one who will be caught with Jesus with a transformed body. The one left is an unbeliever.
  • Jesse - in Reply
    Hi Gigi,

    That does seem odd that the question was posted a month ago with zero response. I personally do not recall seeing the question but I do remember seeing a similar question not too long ago. I too have heard different interpretations on those verses in Luke. I would also like to share my understanding of Luke 17:34-35 for what it's worth.

    First of all, something that should be known is that the word "men" in verse 34 is not found in any manuscript so I'm not sure why the translators put the word men in there. The reason why I think this is important to know is because this is one of the verses I have heard people use to justify homosexuality. But no manuscript has the word men. It's just two people. Just though I'd share that.

    As far as where the "one taken," goes, this is what I see. Right after Jesus just got through saying there shall be two in one bed, one taken, the other one left, and two in the field, one taken, the other one left, in verse 37 the disciples asked Jesus "Where Lord?" So they want to know where the one taken is taken to. When I look at Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37, He says "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

    This tells me that He is talking about that day when people are going to gather together in the Valley outside of Jerusalem to fight against Christ at His coming. Remember in Revelation, it tells us that the birds are going to be called in to feed on their carcasses. If I remember correctly (I would have to search), but these people (The one's taken) have been drawn out into the battle by Christ.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Hello, It wasn't up until recent times that people had their own bed to sleep in. Beds were shared in families and s=visitors even shared beds with family members because space and beds were limited.
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Sister GiGi.

    Good perspective on the bed issue. So they didn't have Sleep Number beds nor Mr. Pillow pillows:)
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    No, not then. We are very spoiled!
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Hi Sister GiGi,

    Thanks for your response, and for bumping this post back up.

    I'm currently of the same thinking as you regarding the rapture. I don't see real biblical support for the rapture, I believe the followers of Jesus Christ will be caught up to meet HIM, but this will be after the Tribulation and the trumpets of the Day of the Lord, at the sound of the last, or seventh trumpet, when all true Christians who've died or are still alive are changed together.

    I'm still studying this, and regarding specifically Luke 17:34-35 Why are two men in bed together? What does it mean that two women are grinding together?

    I have some thoughts on this, but I was hoping that others might want to weigh in with their thoughts.

    God Bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi Brother Dan.

    I believe in the Rapture but I don't believe this is a reference to the Rapture.

    I like what Brother Jesse has shared and would like to add to it.

    We have what I believe is the same account worded slightly different in Matthew 24.

    Jesus says in both accounts it will be like in the days of Noah. Question is Who was taken in the days of Noah?

    Let's visit it.

    Matthew 24:37-39. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

    ( AND KNEW NOT UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME, AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY; SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE.

    Now let's visit the text in question.

    Luke 17:34-35. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    These are not Raptured, They're gathered but not to be with him. Those in the Ark were saved out of destruction and so is the Rapture. This is his second coming.

    God bless.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Bro Dan What Traditionally is being taught as the rapture is in 2 Thessalonians known as our gathering together unto

    Him. The day of Christ is future when Christ dose the judging Revelation, today is known as mans day 1 Corinthians 4:3 it says

    concerning mans Judgement this word judgement is [hemera and it is the only place translated day], this is saying this is

    mans day where man does all the judging, but when the day of Christ comes He will do the Judging, but before that day

    which is in revelation the body of Christ will be taken up and then what is known as The AntiChrist will come in into

    full power. There are many things against Christ or the gospel now but they are not The Antichrist

    The only reason that is not occuring now is because we who believe and walk in the light of the word

    are still reconciling men that want to believe back to God the Ministry of Reconciliation which we all are a part of

    2 Corinthians 5:17-19. We who are born again in the Age of grace are indeed saved from the Judgement to come on

    the people who chose not to believe. The only thing Believers will be judged for are the works done according to the

    word all the rest burn't up and we will have bodies like unto His Glorious body THe Hope. Talk about a Bright Future its a no Loss deal because we believe and act on Gods Word.
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Hi Brother Rick,

    I appreciate your response and sharing of scripture.

    Regarding your judgement comment, I don't think anyone is saved from the final judgement, and it is not wise to be too confident. Me, I will continue to pray for wisdom - wisdom to FEAR GOD, the more fear the better!

    Luke 12:5

    "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

    We do well to remain humble, and keep with us a healthy dose of ongoing FEAR! The fear of God will keep us in subjection, and obedience to His Spirit.

    God Bless
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother Dan, you want be judged in the final judgement, you are being JUDGED NOW, by the words of God. Judgement is, COMING TO TRUTH.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come (today) that Judgement must begin at he house of God.....

    Hebrews 3:6 For Christ as a son over his own house, whose HOUSE WE ARE.

    2 Corinthians 5:10 We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ....

    Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery...Christ in you..

    The judgement seat is in you, you are now APPEARING before Christ and judgement is bring you to TRUTH.

    John 16:8 And when he IS COME, (he has already come to you, because he abides in you, CHRIST IN YOU) he will reprove the world of sin, and or righteousness, and of JUDGEMENT:

    John 16:9 OF SIN, because they believe not on me. (sin is singular and it's UNBELIEF)

    John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and you see me no more,

    You can't see him because he is IN YOU and his RIGHTEOUSNESS becomes your righteousness)

    John 16:11 Of JUDGEMENT, because the prince of this world is JUDGED.

    WE are the PRINCES OF THIS WORLD, and the truth of THE WORD has DESTROYED US and REPLACE US with THE PRINCE OF LIFE.

    Matthew 12:28 But if I (prince of life) by the spirit of God cast out devils (princes of this world) then the kingdom of God (CHRIST IN YOU) has come unto you.

    God grace us with eyes to see and ears to hear.

    God Bless You.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Dear Earl,

    I agree that we are a kingdom of priests and princes. To me, this means that we are to serve God in these offices with humility and a desire to be in service to others, not to rise above others. Our rule should be like that of Crist on earth, who humbled Himself and became a servant. I pray to live out these offices as Christ would have me, always looking out for the interests of others.
  • Chris - in Reply
    Brother Dan. I realize that this thread is on 'The Rapture', but noticed your comment, "I don't think anyone is saved from the final judgement". I understand that you mean that we all have to face final judgement of our sins/of our lives, & only then we'll know whether we're saved or not. I certainly don't subscribe to that belief, as seen in my other comments on this matter, but if you're interested, I would direct you to a very lengthy article dealing on this subject.

    It was a lecture given by H.A. Ironside in April 1934 in Chicago, & though long in reading, I believe very worthwhile to any wanting to know why many believe in a 'true' believers' eternal security. He deals with many of the Scriptures that pertain to this. If you type in 'Eternal Security of the Believer by Ironside', there should be a link or two giving a free look at his work.
  • Bro dan - in Reply
    Hi Brother Chris,

    Thank you for taking your time to comment, and for furnishing the link to the lecture by H.A. Ironside, April 1934. It's such a small world, I'm familiar with the Moody Bible Institute, as I lived in Chicago for a good period of time.

    I will read the article, with open mind, and pray for understanding.

    God Bless you.
  • Rick - in Reply
    Bro Dan My fellow believer I fear God who is my father in regard to respect and awe and His love for me and everything He does for me including eternal life. In the book of revelation the judgements there are for the just and unjust

    I have already been cleaned by the blood of my Lord and Saviour that's what God says I'm not Going to argue with my Father.

    I am now a saint biblically and in the book of revelation we come back with Christ to kick the adversary and his kingdoms butt. Because we been past tense washed in the blood. Gods Words not mine. But its your privilege to believe what you want. My sin and shortcomings are paid for when I make a mistake I ask forgiveness learn and move on, life to short to dwell on error. Our brother Jesus Christ paid the ultimate sacrifice so we could spiritually soar like eagles, and I was tired of being a buzzard.
  • GiGi again - in Reply
    Thanks Bro Dan,

    We shall see when it happens.



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