Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Ralph on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    hebrews 11 5 any ideals i can research this .....translated
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Hello Ralph,

    Are you looking for the meaning of the word translated? If so, it literally means transferred. By faith, Enoch was transferred that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had transferred him: for before he was transferred he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    This is a perfect example of the application of these two types of faith, human, and spiritual. I have yet to hear any of the "human faith" teachers, which are numerous and many, say "You know, if you had enough faith, you wouldn't have to die, you'd just get transferred up into heaven. Nobody'd done that one yet!

    It was by faith that Enoch was transferred because God transferred him. Faith is the name of the entire process in which Enoch was taken up into heaven. It is a word that describes what God did to Enoch. It wasn't that Enoch was here on the earth, and reached a point in his relationship with God that he had so much faith that he believed that he could be transferred up into heaven and not die, that God says "I'm pleased with that, so I think I will bring you up here." It's a word that describes what God did. The principle of faith is given in Hebrews 11:6.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Amen and Amen, Brother Jesse.

    Faith, it's a word that describes what God did, and is still doing.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Hi Earl,

    Yes, I agree. Faith is a word that describes what God does. The bible tells us that faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. The faith that the bible speaks of can only be produced by God's Spirit. We cannot produce spiritual faith, only human faith. The word faith literally means persuasion. But there are two types of faith, human faith, and spiritual faith. We either persuade ourselves (human faith), or we submit to the persuasion of God's Spirit persuading us and moving us to do something (Spiritual faith). When we submit to the persuasion of God's Spirit working in our lives, that's the faith God sees and rewards. I like to describe faith as the presence and activity of God's Spirit in a believer's life. When God's Spirit persuades us, that's faith. Have a blessed day!
  • Rick - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Hi Jesse I noted that you state Enoch did not die but according to hebrews 11: 13 in the context it says these all died in in faith and that includes Enoch. Just an observation.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Hello Rick,

    I'll have to take another look at that chapter. I know you mention context, but I still cannot see how Enoch would be included with those in chapter 13, especially when chapter 5 says that God transferred him and that he would not see death. What are your thoughts on the phrase "he was not found." To me, if he died a normal physical death, they would have known where his body was. It is my belief that both Enoch and Elijah never experienced physical death and that God took both of them prior to experiencing death. You are the first believer that I've talked to that says Enoch died a normal physical death. What are your thoughts on Elijah? Did Hod take him before he experienced death?
  • Rick - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Jesse When it comes to scripture I endeavor not to assume, with Elijah it says he was taken up to heaven which is biblically anyplace above earth Genesis I.E. Firmament, so why couldn't God transport Him from one place on earth to another, also Elisha begged them not to look for Him because he knew they would never find him. It doesn't say scripturally that either Enoch or Elisha never physically died that would contradict scripture because there will be no corruption in the new heaven and earth. Also as Paul said it corruption cannot inherit incorruption. I know many believers who believe this, just saying. What I don't get is Gods Word says there will be a resurrection of the body of Christ and a resurrection of the just and unjust which covers everyone else so other than Jesus Christ who was raised from the dead permanently why would anyone else until the times stated biblically.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Brother Jesse, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Are not the BORN AGAIN to never see death?

    Matthew 16:28 ....There be some standing here, which shall no taste of death, .....

    John 5:24 ....but is passed from death unto life.

    John 8:51 ....he shall never see death.

    In the twinkling of an eye DEATH is swallowed up in VICTORY

    Colossians 1:13 ....And hath TRANSLATED US into the kingdom of his dear Son:
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Brother Earl,

    My answer would be that the born-again will still experience physical death, but never spiritual death. We are all born into this world spiritually dead and because of sin, we are separated from God. It is not until a person surrenders their life to Christ that they are made spiritually alive. At the point of salvation, we are made spiritually alive, never again to be separated from God. The death that a true believer (one who has been born of God's Spirit) will never experience is what the bible refers to as the second death. So the answer to your question would be yes and no. Yes, we as born again believers will experience physical death (Unless of course the Lord comes in our lifetime), and no, we will not experience the second death, spiritual death (Eternal separation from Christ), because we have been made alive in Christ. He is our seal. He is eternal. He lives in us. He will never leave us. So if I say I have eternal life, I am in essence saying that I have the eternal one, Christ living in me. I will always have Christ in me, and since He is eternal, I have eternal life, I have Christ. Would you like for me to share my understanding of the verses you listed?
  • Lol - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.

    The first Enoch was the son of Cain.

    He is described as a son of Cain, and father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.

    The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). Seth is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.
  • 2 Enochs - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    Oops :D. Forgot to add this
  • Two Enochs in the Bible - In Reply on Daniel 5 - 2 years ago
    I posted this yesterday. Previously I noticed while looking at Genealogy charts on Google: that there were 2 persons, each named Enoch.

    However one of them was ancestor of Cain. The one who killed Abel.



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